Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[C0rvus]

All of AnTi's characters are good against Mega Man. This could be a very good set though.

And the Sheik comes out. This should be interesting.

Edit: Anti wins 3-2. Good Mega Man gameplay. Gonna rewatch that set again later. Scatt making his character look hella viable right now.

 

[Yonder]

Abadango's Character Spread last night

2-0 vs. Cross Igarashi
2-0 vs. Laki
2-0 vs. Kisha
(game 1, loss) (games 2-3, win x2) vs. Motsunabe
2-0 vs. KEN
2-1 vs. Songun
0-2 vs. Nyanko
2-1 vs. Kamemushi
3-2, 3-0 vs. Nyanko

https://twitter.com/Abadango_/status/711506563412811776

So Aba is finally using his "secondary" after the patch aye? Nice to see. I wonder how well M2 covers MK's matchups.

 

[Ghostbone]

Yet Bayonetta is able to completely nullify that weakness as well because she can just land with a charged neutral B and then cancel with shield the moment she lands. Obviously, landing with neutral B is predictable and can be punished, but that's not the point.

No she can't?

She fires her neutral-b immediately on landing no matter what if you're already used an up-b/side-b in the air before it.

It'd be nice if we didn't make things up while complaining about bayo.

Not to mention all of her added special landing lag actually gets added onto the end of her neutral-b lol.

 

[C0rvus]

If Scatt wins this tournament I'm a Mega Man main.

Really cool stuff coming from him. As always, of course. The Falcon MU looks slightly in Mega's favor just because of edgeguarding. And Mega seems to really be able to give Falcon a hard time getting in.

 

[ARISTOS]

Literally all of Falcon's flaws shown in one set

 

[ligersandtigons]

No she can't?

She fires her neutral-b immediately on landing no matter what if you're already used an up-b/side-b in the air before it.

It'd be nice if we didn't make things up while complaining about bayo.

Not to mention all of her added special landing lag actually gets added onto the end of her neutral-b lol.

I didn't make it up, I read some misinformation it seems like

regardless, I did some research and came across this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbO50LuDvGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doOq4dyS44

Unless these videos are wrong or were patched or whatever, my point still stands

 

[NotLiquid]

ScAtt has a Cloud

welp

EDIT:

Final Round 19 Results

1) ANTi
2) ScAtt
3) Fatality
4) LordMix
5) Wrath
5) Day
7) Player-1
7) Rango (I think? Didn't catch them live)

While ANTi might not be the best Sheik to extrapolate from it seems rather clear that the patch nerf has made the matchup somewhat more balanced in Mega Man's favor.

Also a Bowser Top 8 appearance at a rather large event is quite a surprise. No DLC character at all in Top 8 until ScAtt tried to pocket counter with Cloud in the very last match of the tourney.

 

[Y2Kay]

Way to go Scatt, show that the dirty South ain't free

 

[Flux0r]

I swear Cloud will be a huge roadblock for this game's character diversity.

I'm starting to get worried when even someone like Scatt has a pocket Cloud.

 

[Das Koopa]

Bowser getting 4th is pretty noteworthy

 

[Y2Kay]

Dang, that took a very sad turn.

Rest in peace, Lucario Money

 

[HeavyLobster]

I swear Cloud will be a huge roadblock for this game's character diversity.

I'm starting to get worried when even someone like Scatt has a pocket Cloud.

Not to the extent Sheik was at least. Cloud might be easy to have as a secondary but at least you can somewhat CP him.

 

[Charoite]

There is a tournaments that have john numbers,Dkwill.
the stream is on hitbox: http://www.hitbox.tv/NebulousGaming
and the bracket is here: https://smash.gg/tournament/nebulous-prime-sm4sh-32/brackets/12070/20726/69052

 

[Das Koopa]

Also, if anybody knows/has the top 16 bracket (not just top 8) for Final Round 19, pls gib

 

[Karinole]

What anti showed at final round is that the ZSS nerfs barely matter.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Pre-patch Sheik was the Aegislash of Smash 4. People to this day are arguing that Aegislash wasn't broken, but after it went to ubers, the OU metagame saw a renaissance, and diversity was more present in the less Aegislash-centered meta.

Cloud is the Mega Mawile of Smash 4. Nowhere near as centralizing as Aegislash, but indisputably more splashable and janky, getting much more reward for much less risk.

 

[Big-Cat]

I like how only ONE character in top 8 was DLC, and that character was a pocket.

 

[PK Gaming]

Pre-patch Sheik was the Aegislash of Smash 4. People to this day are arguing that Aegislash wasn't broken, but after it went to ubers, the OU metagame saw a renaissance, and diversity was more present in the less Aegislash-centered meta.

Cloud is the Mega Mawile of Smash 4. Nowhere near as centralizing as Aegislash, but indisputably more splashable and janky, getting much more reward for much less risk.

These are pretty legit analogies, haha.

Though i'd say Cloud is closer to Mega Charizard X during the XY metagame. Back when no team was truly safe from Dragon Dance Zard. Both characters have a brief moment where they're vulnerable (pre mega evolution/dragon dance in Zard's case and Cloud before he gets limit) then the burst in power after set up.

 

[L9999]

I swear Cloud will be a huge roadblock for this game's character diversity.

I'm starting to get worried when even someone like Scatt has a pocket Cloud.

He has an excuse, Megaman-Sheik/Mario sucks IIRC.

 

[Smog Frog]

hmm. i dont think zard x is a valid analogy for . zard x had a ****load of checks to get rid of before you could set up the dd(lando-t, slowbro, scarf chomp, thundurus if you didnt want your sweep to be cut short, azu, and mind you these were all common on offense, it was easy to have at least 2). doesnt have any real barriers preventing him from setting up limit, and it sorta just...happens. i think blaziken is a MUCH better analogy, seeing as it passively gains speed and could set up a swords dance if you brought it in safely, and it pretty much forced you to run azu/talon if you didnt want to get BLOWN AWAY(slowbro wasnt common before blaziken ****ed off and went to ubers with its friends groudon and darkrai)

 

[NotLiquid]

He has an excuse, Megaman-Sheik/Mario sucks IIRC.

ANTi switched away from Sheik early on after ScAtt took the first game. It was ZSS that seemed to give him the most trouble.

 

[Y2Kay]

Then I guess Bayo is Protean Greninja

 

[Shady Shaymin]

hmm. i dont think zard x is a valid analogy for . zard x had a ****load of checks to get rid of before you could set up the dd(lando-t, slowbro, scarf chomp, thundurus if you didnt want your sweep to be cut short, azu, and mind you these were all common on offense, it was easy to have at least 2). doesnt have any real barriers preventing him from setting up limit, and it sorta just...happens. i think blaziken is a MUCH better analogy, seeing as it passively gains speed and could set up a swords dance if you brought it in safely, and it pretty much forced you to run azu/talon if you didnt want to get BLOWN AWAY(slowbro wasnt common before blaziken ****ed off and went to ubers with its friends groudon and darkrai)

10/10 best smash-smogon analogy. Bravo sir.

Bayonetta is like hoopa unbound. No amount of bad speed, type weaknesses, or poor defense will ever compensate for his insane, almost brainless offensive pressure and coverage.

 

[Ghostbone]

I didn't make it up, I read some misinformation it seems like

regardless, I did some research and came across this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbO50LuDvGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doOq4dyS44

Unless these videos are wrong or were patched or whatever, my point still stands

Your point doesn't stand, you were completely wrong lol.

You said she could land with a charged neutral b and shield cancel it, she can't, she immediately fires her guns upon landing AND the extra special landing lag gets added onto the end of the shooting animation (this actually applies in the air too, her neutral-b has more lag equal to the amount of specials you used before it)
And I really dislike when people spread stuff around like it's true without actually knowing anything lol

She can witch time right before she lands and end up ignoring the extra special landing lag, instead she's just in regular, not hard to punish witch time lag.
Like you can just shield next to where she's going to land, and then grab her no matter what she does lol, that's why when you watch bayo's they always try and go to the ledge after using a bunch of specials if the opponent's waiting on the ground to punish them.

 

[Pancracio17]

So imo top 4 are , and i think all of them lose to at least one of themselves, bayo probably loses to diddy and rosa, diddy loses to rosa, cloud probably loses to bayo and rosa loses to cloud. Pretty balanced if i may say so myself.

 

[Megamang]

Greninja is totally the greninja of this game, no question. And in time, you will all see, that mewtwo is the mewtwo of this game.


Ghostbone i remember you talking about bayo previously. As she has been around for a while nerfs have set in, do you still believe she is going to continue getting better and more dominant? (I believe im thinking of you that said it).

 

[Tri Knight]

One thing is for certain about the top tiers... they actually all have bad MU's even outside top tiers. It's nice to see that other characters have more of a chance than ever now. It makes choosing your main / favorite character that much less painful as well.

 

[L9999]

So imo top 4 are , and i think all of them lose to at least one of themselves, bayo probably loses to diddy and rosa, diddy loses to rosa, cloud probably loses to bayo and rosa loses to cloud. Pretty balanced if i may say so myself.

And they have the best theory, results, MU spreads, with some of those 4 invalidating other characters directly, and top players that do something. No one should question these 4 are the best.

 

[Funbot28]

Idk, I still feel that ZSS is pretty amazing even if d-throw to u-air combos are slightly less coherent. Only time will tell but her nerfs weren't as bad as Shiek. Is anything she is still top 5 imo.

 

[kaz99]

So imo top 4 are , and i think all of them lose to at least one of themselves, bayo probably loses to diddy and rosa, diddy loses to rosa, cloud probably loses to bayo and rosa loses to cloud. Pretty balanced if i may say so myself.

I think that it's better to say that the top 5 is in whatever order. From what I saw of Anti today, Zero Suit seems capable of doing just about everything that she could prepatch. I don't believe that she will fall out of the top 5, and her match ups have probably not changed too much either.

 

[ligersandtigons]

Your point doesn't stand, you were completely wrong lol.

You said she could land with a charged neutral b and shield cancel it, she can't, she immediately fires her guns upon landing AND the extra special landing lag gets added onto the end of the shooting animation (this actually applies in the air too, her neutral-b has more lag equal to the amount of specials you used before it)
And I really dislike when people spread stuff around like it's true without actually knowing anything lol

She can witch time right before she lands and end up ignoring the extra special landing lag, instead she's just in regular, not hard to punish witch time lag.
Like you can just shield next to where she's going to land, and then grab her no matter what she does lol, that's why when you watch bayo's they always try and go to the ledge after using a bunch of specials if the opponent's waiting on the ground to punish them.

My point was that Bayonetta can bypass the landing lag from her aerial combos, an intended weakness of hers. Just because I got the reason wrong for how she bypasses the landing lag doesn't make my point invalid.

If a Witch Twist x2 + ABK x2 combo is supposed to induce 30+ frames of landing lag, then the combo should still have 30+ landing lag regardless if she Witch Times or Climax Cancels or whatever during her descent. That is my point.

 

[Otterz]

Idk, I still feel that ZSS is pretty amazing even if d-throw to u-air combos are slightly less coherent. Only time will tell but her nerfs weren't as bad as Shiek. Is anything she is still top 5 imo.

She is significantly less powerful with rage than before, which netted a lot of kills. I can understand top 5, but I'd say 6-8~.

EDIT: I haven't seen Anti today, I need to find this.

 

[Pancracio17]

She cant climax cancel, thats the point. She cant witch time but that shouldnt activate because you should be shielding were shes gonna land anyway because she cant still attack

Re top 5: if not zss then who? Sonic? Still shiek? Maybe ryu if the tier list is theory based.

 

[ligersandtigons]

She cant climax cancel, thats the point. She cant witch time but that shouldnt activate because you should be shielding were shes gonna land anyway because she cant still attack

Re top 5: if not zss then who? Sonic? Still shiek? Maybe ryu if the tier list is theory based.

It doesn't matter if Witch Time is easily punishable or not, the point is that Witch Timing to reduce landing lag shouldn't be an option in the first place.

 

[Otterz]

Re top 5: if not zss then who? Sonic? Still shiek? Maybe ryu if the tier list is theory based.

Considering this is day 5 of 1.1.5, results are not a viable option to rate a character like ZSS, who has changed, when it is this close. Theory and MUs are heavily considered.

 

[David Viran]

She is significantly less powerful with rage than before, which netted a lot of kills. I can understand top 5, but I'd say 6-8~

I don't completely understand what you mean with rage. Care to elaborate?

 

[Nobie]

All the other good stuff aside (Witch Twist, mobility in general, combos), the nerf to Witch Time is actually pretty significant I think.

The increased diminishing returns on Witch Time when used within a short period of time means that it necessarily has to be used wisely and cautiously, because otherwise it loses its purpose. Like if you literally get Witch Timed twice within the span of 30 seconds the 2nd time almost doesn't matter i feel.

I also wonder if the fact that it lasts a shorter period when the opponent has less damage is meant to encourage players to go in more early on.

One other thing: I didn't watch the Scatt vs. Fatality matchups, but from what I've read I think it's clear that the Mega Man vs. Falcon matchup is not so cut and dry just because Falcon can "jab pellets."

 

[Otterz]

I don't completely understand what you mean with rage. Care to elaborate?

With rage, we can't grab at ~30% and Uair x2 UpB for a pop-out kill, as it won't combo. This is very noticeable on characters like Rosalina. The increase in both Dthrow and Uair's knockback is a factor, but combined with the combo starting later now it makes rage less useful. Also, with rage, Dthrow becomes a 50/50 at kill percents [DI Up and Away] and not a free Uair.

 

[Pancracio17]

It doesn't matter if Witch Time is easily punishable or not, the point is that Witch Timing to reduce landing lag shouldn't be an option in the first place.

I get that, and i agree with it, but its not really cancelling out of lag because youre landing with a counter, which has a ton of lag and can be grabed. Plus as i said this shouldnt matter because you should be shielding where she is gonna land anyway because if not youre gonna get hit and miss the punish.

 

[Megamang]

Scatt and fatality go way back, and go back and forth frequently. Check out some match history on these (unchanged!) characters before we declare anything solidly. Falcon can edgeguard megaman as well, the mu is volatile. Thats part of the problem, megaman likes more stable matchups since he tacks on damage throughout.