Official 4BR Guidelines and Suggestion Box

[TheReflexWonder]

4BR Guidelines and Suggestion Box​

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Smash 4 Backroom (4BR for short). The 4BR is a group that's purpose is to help guide and further the Smash 4 community and meta with a unified group of passionate players, TO's, personalities, etc;. If you're here, regardless of the role you contribute to the community, we value you and what you can offer to the 4BR and the Smash Community as a whole. Now let's get to the guidelines

Guidelines:

1. The 4BR is a private forum, so we ask that any discussion in terms of projects is kept in this room until they're announced. On the same note, discussion in regards to knowledge/tech is generally ok, as we don't want to limit what you're able to contribute to the Smash Community, be it on site, YouTube, Twitter, etc;. If someone else wishes for something they said to remain in the room though, please respect their wishes.
2. Please respect your fellow 4BR members. Disagreeing on an issue or stance is fine, just try to state your side in a calm, rational manner, and to NOT attack the person.
3. It's important when discussing how to handle certain projects/tasks we're able to find a common ground. In cases of deadlocks, the leadership will act as the final say.
4. Contribute. This room isn't here just for you to get a banner. Even checking in and posting every now and then is fine, but inactivity will lead to forum removal.
5. While we're hosted on Smashboards, I want to stress that the 4BR is it's own autonomous group, meaning the administration or staff don't have any bearing on what we decide and move forward with (barring some exceptions).

In the future, there'll be more assets that will be at our disposal that will be discussed at another time. We look forward to building the 4BR with everyone though, and making the Competitive Smash 4 Community a better place.

 

[Camalange]

​

Suggested:

• Smash 4 Tutor - Assign certain players to be the mentor to tutor any newcomers or mid-high level players that want to improve in certain areas.
• Weekly/Bi-Weekly Podcast - (could stream it/etc.) Would give the community an idea of what we are up to.
• Public Updates - Q&A, Public Relations, etc.
• 4BR Combo Video - Highlight and hype gameplay of members in the Back Room.
• Ruleset Legality Discussion - Miis, Stocks, etc.

 

[CHOMPY]

My suggestion is we can bring up a topic, called "Smash 4 tutor". As the title says, we can assign certain players to be the mentor to tutor any newcomers or mid-high level players that want to improve on certain areas they need to improve on. Maybe we can figure out how we want to format that idea?

 

[NickRiddle]

The only problem with a tutoring type of program is that the tutor generally loses motivation as they do not get anything for it.

 

[Myran]

The only problem with a tutoring type of program is that the tutor generally loses motivation as they do not get anything for it.

This ^

I'm all for helping Olimar players, and I regularly do give them advice and discuss things. However going out of my way to tutor may prove difficult as an over time activity. I don't have to much free time these days.

 

[M@v]

Why not do a weekly/bi-weekly podcast? Could stream it/etc. Would also give the community an idea of what we are up to.

 

[Neo Zero]

In regards to something like a mentor program, one thing that we have in the work would be a pro AMA forum. We also have a budget where we could pay for content to be created (though the budget stuff will need to be decided another time).

Why not do a weekly/bi-weekly podcast? Could stream it/etc. Would also give the community an idea of what we are up to.

This is something I think could be a good venture, I think establishing effective communication with the community is important after all.

 

[Camalange]

I like the idea of finding a way to basically keep the public updated as to what goes back here.

 

[Marc]

Regardless of whether this is going to be a public read-only room or not, I would suggest having a member in charge of PR. I have mentioned before that Zigsta did a great job of keeping in touch with the public in the BBR days, when he maintained a Q&A thread with a public member list and other information. It was generally received well as a means to have a somewhat direct link to the room.

 

[Gunla]

Regardless of whether this is going to be a public read-only room or not, I would suggest having a member in charge of PR. I have mentioned before that Zigsta did a great job of keeping in touch with the public in the BBR days, when he maintained a Q&A thread with a public member list and other information. It was generally received well as a means to have a somewhat direct link to the room.

Well, I'll put it out there that I'm an Author on SWF, so any major public articles (IE: tier list releases, etc), could be posted there, as well as on the comp forum for maybe the actual lists and such under my name.

Secondly, I'd be down with having a public Q&A thread where we keep a member list, various info (maybe character expertise and general stuff) to keep people in the know?

 

[Mister Eric]

Why not do a weekly/bi-weekly podcast? Could stream it/etc. Would also give the community an idea of what we are up to.

I'm liking this idea quite a bit.

 

[M@v]

Besides talking about what's going on back here, we could also talk about what has been happening in the smash 4 community. Think MIOM, except for smash 4.

 

[Gunla]

Besides talking about what's going on back here, we could also talk about what has been happening in the smash 4 community. Think MIOM, except for smash 4.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-state-of-smash-4-october-edition.422660/
Something like this, perhaps? But a bit bigger?

Keep in mind that I intend to make these a bit bigger, covering more tournaments, getting a better experience rather than just being a simple current events article, etc. It was certainly well liked but I want to flesh it out further. Connecting this to the 4BR and making it as a sort of monthly series from us would be interesting, perhaps?

Other article ideas and publications are things I would like to hear about as well from you guys.

 

[M@v]

Yeah, that would be a good baseline/starting step.

 

[istudying]

What do you guys think about having a 2 stocks vs 3 stocks discussion.

Europe TO's including myself only host and prefer 3 stock tournaments, however in the US/Japan it's 2 stocks.

 

[M@v]

I'd be down. This isn't the thread for it obviously. I would say toss up a thread and we can dig into it. The only real major thing running 3 stocks in the US IIRC is Anther's Ladder. Don't get me wrong; I'm sure there are smaller tourneys around the country that run 3, but as a whole is what I'm referring to.

 

[Camalange]

The discussion can be had, but I know at this time we are weary of enforcing rulesets upon the community as this has not boded well for us in the past.

 

[Thinkaman]

I think there's just cause for us to talk about Miis, but am pretty unmotivated to do so.

Anyway, I'll continue doing patch notes, obviously?

Also, before any TIER LIST discussion kicks underway (yeah yeah, tier lists are dumb but it's an expectation), we should probably have an entire preface discussion converging on an agreement of what a tier list is and represents. Where does it fall on the spectrum of results and theory? What level of play does it measure? (Is it all high-level play, or just the top ~100 players, or just the top 2, or just the expectation for the future top players, or hypothetical God-mode play...)

The point isn't to discussion this here (plz don't), but to point out that the subtle differences in how we define rankings has to be at least addressed (and ideally somewhat reconciled) before we can discuss the actual sorting.

 

[Neo Zero]

Speaking of patch notes, care to make a template thread here Thinkaman ?

Once we get wave 2 settled in, we can sort out all the tier details and start discussion (any voting and creation of course being far off)

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, the tier list will be quite a dedicated project. Since it's also highly expected of us, I do believe we should move forward with it once the second wave of invites are decided.

I know we were originally against ruleset stuff... But I'm not opposed to releasing rulesets so as long we say they're "suggested rulesets" and not official.

We have enough credibility in our membership that if we all ultimately agree upon something, that it would hold weight for events. Especially considering we plan on bringing more TOs into the mix for this room.

 

[Gunla]

The issue is agreement, however. There's obvious things we'll agree on and some things we won't.

I think it might be a bit easier for us to probably agree on a suggested stagelist, and potentially stocks, but I'm going to be blunt and honest, I don't think it's a good idea to discuss Mii rulings for a while. It will not be pretty. Literally no matter what our choice is, there's destined to be some incredible backlash, from both outside the userbase and potentially from some of this room's members, suggested or not. I am pro-Mii (naturally, since I play Brawler, and Tiny Brawler when avaliable) and respect why some just want them out, but I can't say that it's a good idea to go and place our ruling in a ruleset just yet.

I am passionate about the issue (and I know many of us are, from nearly every standpoint) but it's something that just needs to be done ridiculously carefully; I would rather start work on a Recommended Stagelist, rather than a full ruleset. It's another widely debated issue that has a bit less controversy attached to it.

 

[Myran]

In regards to rulesets I would like to hear where everyone stands in regards to allowing wireless controllers. Wiimotes more than Pro Controllers since they have the cord.

 

[Zigsta]

I would LOVE to have a discussion on the suicide clause. A vast majority of Smashers are under the illusion that Bowser always dies first upon Koopacide, but it's actually stage dependent AND air or ground Klaw dependent.

Depending on the region, the suicide clause varies. Sometimes initiator always wins. Sometimes initiator always loses. Sometimes winner is determined by results screen (typically by TOs who have no idea some Koopacides result in a tie).

This leads to lots and lots of confusion. And after spending money and taking valuable vacation time off of work to attend Apex only to lose due to a shoddy rule and bad TOing, I'm more than done with this ruleset being completely ignored by the community. A solid, definitive stance needs to be concluded on the suicide clause.

No one else should ever have to go through what happened to me at Apex.

 

[Camalange]

Stages and suicide clause would definitely be less controversial of a discussion.

 

[Neo Zero]

Sorry guys, but for now I'd like to effectively ban ruleset discussions. As many of you are likely aware of, one of the most controversial things the BBR did was creating and establishing a ruleset. It was of course met with a lot of backlash from both outside the BR and even among the members themselves.

Here's the thing about a tier list and a ruleset. A Tier List is based around compiling informed opinions and data and using all those different opinions and data, averaging them, and then displaying it. A tier list doesn't necessarily affect how the game is played (though certainly, the appeal of a higher/top tier character can affect how the meta for a character can grow). A Ruleset is similar in this sense, however the product we present wouldn't JUST be for data purposes, but would ultimately affect how people play, and enforcing it would be next to impossible unless SB/4BR financed effectively every tournament. Without that power, sure we can create something that might be agreed upon to a degree, but at the risk of creating segregation among us and the community, and no ability to enforce it for TO's to use. That's why on the topic of rulesets, at most I'd like to create a Ruleset Directory, where all used rulesets in various regions and major tournaments are compiled and displayed not as fact or opinion by us, but as a catalog that players and TO's can browse through to learn more about the game from that region.

Down the line can we talk about stage lists, rules, customs and Miis? Well we'll see down the line, but for now it's in our best interest both as an organization and individuals to NOT try and deal with those issues.

 

[Zigsta]

That's understandable as long as it gets dealt with eventually. There hasn't been enough discussion on the suicide clause, and a lack of discussion only leads to confusion and frustration.

Anyways, I've said my peace on it and won't bring it up again.

 

[Neo Zero]

That's understandable as long as it gets dealt with eventually. There hasn't been enough discussion on the suicide clause, and a lack of discussion only leads to confusion and frustration.

Anyways, I've said my peace on it and won't bring it up again.

It's small enough where I'd be willing to discuss it, not necessarily to make a ruling, but more so to recommend a course of action. Reason I'm skeptical is if we do this ONE thing then they may expect more, or may resist. Zigsta, what I would recommend and if this is already done my apologies, but perhaps make a video describing how suicides in Sm4sh work, inform the general public, and what you'd like seen done in regards to it. If after we all agree with the basic message it puts apart, we can advocate it using Social Media to try and influence TO's to take this kind of thing into account.

 

[Zigsta]

It's small enough where I'd be willing to discuss it, not necessarily to make a ruling, but more so to recommend a course of action. Reason I'm skeptical is if we do this ONE thing then they may expect more, or may resist. Zigsta, what I would recommend and if this is already done my apologies, but perhaps make a video describing how suicides in Sm4sh work, inform the general public, and what you'd like seen done in regards to it. If after we all agree with the basic message it puts apart, we can advocate it using Social Media to try and influence TO's to take this kind of thing into account.

I've planned on making a video for a while now, but between work and writing, I've been really busy for a lot of this year. I'm hoping my schedule will clear up a bit more in January.

 

[False]

if we can get it organized, maybe another SmashBoards combo video? content is never a bad thing, and I've seen some sick plays from the backroomers.

I can certainly help ^w^ and by that I mean probably edit the entire thing if no one else wants to.

 

[Thinkaman]

I can certainly help ^w^ and by that I mean probably edit the entire thing if no one else wants to.

Real Talk: You have made the best-edited videos in the Smash community.

 

[False]

Real Talk: You have made the best-edited videos in the Smash community.

thank you for your kind words, I cherish those kind of sentiments. ^///^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

 

[Zigsta]

if we can get it organized, maybe another SmashBoards combo video? content is never a bad thing, and I've seen some sick plays from the backroomers.

I can certainly help ^w^ and by that I mean probably edit the entire thing if no one else wants to.

A combo video featuring 4BR members could be a cool way to roll out an introduction of sorts for the 4BR.

What could be REALLY cool is to unveil a handful of projects over a set time period. Say it's a week, for example. You call it Smash 4 Back Room Week. Each day there's new content online to get the community up to speed on the members and goals of the 4BR.

One day could be the combo video. Another day could be a blog-style post or interview. A third day could be a "day in the life" video of a member at a tournament. A fourth day could be a podcast. And etc etc etc until the week is filled.

The biggest problem in my opinion with the BBR is if you're not a massive talent--and let's be real, not all of us are--the average joe (no pun intended to the East coast boyz) has no clue who you are. The best way to counter this is to unload as much information about the 4BR members early, and keep the content coming often.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

The question I have is, how long should we wait to start working on a tier list? With patches and more characters soon to come, this is something to be considered before delving into a tier list project.

 

[Camalange]

if we can get it organized, maybe another SmashBoards combo video? content is never a bad thing, and I've seen some sick plays from the backroomers.

I can certainly help ^w^ and by that I mean probably edit the entire thing if no one else wants to.

I'd be happy to help with this too!

The question I have is, how long should we wait to start working on a tier list? With patches and more characters soon to come, this is something to be considered before delving into a tier list project.

We will be rolling out the start of the tier list project very soon.

We would like to have one out by year's end. We're fully aware of content to come in the future, but we think it's reasonable to have a tier list that represents the current meta as it's been a year.

 

[CHOMPY]

I feel like we should talk about the possibility of legalizing custom moves for specific characters, like Palutena, Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Brawler, Mii Gunner, and Mii Swordfighter for tournaments.

Otherwise, those characters are basically non-existent.

 

[Marc]

Why WFT specifically, I get the other ones?

I would be in favour of discussing them casually.

 

[CHOMPY]

Wii Fit's specials are really holding her back. If you looked at how many players used her at EVO, imagine the amount of diversity there would be in the game. Mind you, I'm not asking for this format to be a customs environment. All the members are asking is if we could legalize the customs for Palutena and the Miis.

If you feel Wii Fit should not be discussed, then we can just focus solely on Palutena and the Miis.

 

[Camalange]

Let's try to keep the specifics to a separate thread, since this is for suggestions.

We can open up a new thread for Customs/Miis debating, much like the Umbra Clock Tower thread.