3.6 lucario discussion

[Misuse]

Let's start the 3.6 talks, in a general sense I feel like we got boned and here's why:

-Neutral Special (Aura Sphere)
--Cancel IASA pushed back to 8, instead of 4.
--Startup hitbox begins on frame 10, instead of 3.
--No longer grab-invulnerable during Aura Sphere Cancel.

Doubling and tripling the time between cancels and hitboxes

-Up Special (ExtremeSpeed)
--Can no longer airdodge after using an Aura cancel.

This is at least one of my key recovery tools, we'll see how it plays out.


-Aura charge gain on body hit set to 1x damage dealt from 1.2x.
-Aura charge gain on shield hit set to 0x shield damage dealt from 0.6x.

Yeah, from the looks of it, no aura on shield.... Aura will be much harder to get in 3.6, limiting all of our options.

Let me know what you think! Right now I feel very let Down, but let me know if you guys see any saving grace!

 

[JFyst]

Invinciable approach is also lost, ASC Is literally worse than peach float cancel obvious Nerf. Gaining aura through shield pressure was stupid in the first place, taught people not to shield in the MU ever, that's anti smash. Lucario still has good mix-up on his recovery. It probably won't get hit any further.

 

[Zoa]

Well, ASC was kinda ridiculous to begin with. However I am largely disappointed. Taunt now actually does 5% for five aura points? Not using that ever. That seriously adds up for a tiny amount of aura. 50% of a stock gone just for one charge is ridiculous especially considering using the taunt is situational already. There's no longer 10 frames of intangibility added to your next action for DTC, so that limits another approach. Correct me if I'm wrong, but start up hitbox on AS means AS is also slower to throw out. Removing air dodging at the end of ES was...I don't know how to describe it. I'm just sorely disappointed.

We get usmash hits to last a frame longer, and FP grab actually adds aura this time. That's it for the buffs. Pummel adds aura, but only two points when it takes 50 to get a charge? Not really necessary. Some were completely unnecessary nerfs or additions. Most of our neutral tools took a hit. It's not that much of hit though, so at least they're not completely disfunctional. What does at least help us earn aura faster is FP grab adding aura this time around. That's good.

 

[JFyst]

The AS can be thrown at at the same time, the projectile comes out find, it's the charge hit box that takes time to come out, lucario is supposed to be bad in nuetral in the first place, so yes losing an invincible approch option is reasonable. Losing air dodge is losing one part of a three piece recovery, double team, up-b and you can save your jump till after the up b, so you might still be able to air dodge after the jump ( don't quote me on that last part just thought of it) fox's recovery got bodied, be thankful, lucario didn't lose aura cancel.

 

[Zoa]

Good then. At least the speed it takes to use AS wasn't altered.

 

[atara]

-Cancel IASA pushed back to 8, instead of 4.

Well, there goes the neighborhood. Or: **** this patch.

 

[Fearless]

I really don't agree with these changes, it didn't fix some of the frustrating needless things like the up-b windbox and aura on shyguys/balloons, etc and hit ASC much harder than it needed to.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I'm honestly having no problem with ASC's, I barely notice a difference. My biggest annoyance is with the 5 FREAKING PERCENT on taunt, which is ridiculous. Also, his new animations are dope.

 

[AkashSky]

Here are my thoughts after playing around with lucario against the computer and in practice mode,
**have not played vs real people yet, and i will update this post when I play against my friends**

Firstly, even though this happened: Neutral Special (Aura Sphere)
--Cancel IASA pushed back to 8, instead of 4

I did not notice any difference when just comboing and aura sphere canceling with lucario like normal. However, since lucario can now be grabbed while doing an ASC, spacing is going to become more important than ever. This is going to be really hard, and will most likely limit lucario options, but I do think its better for the game overall.

Secondly, I feel that the change where we don't get aura on shield is justified, and even more so justified when they gave us a buff to counteract the shield Nerf, as in Force Palm yields aura. So, if the opponent is on shield, you can still get aura by force palming them, (although this is easier said than done). Since lucario also retains Ohc on shield, we have not actually lost any options against shielding opponents.

In addition, I am extremely happy about the new animations that show when an aura charge is given and I love the new taunt because it can actually get you those 10 aura points you need to finish your charge. The fact that its rather quick and fast is really nice. Also, I love the fact that it gives us a trade off. When we are low in % we will be averse to using it because % when we are low matters more than when we are in kill %. If I am above kill % in a matchup say against marth, I'll taunt as much as I can, as I would probably die to a forward smash regardless of my %.

Now, lets move on to what I dislike. Lucario's recovery nerf after having double team not reset after getting hit was more than enough of a nerf. I dislike the fact that lucario cannot air dodge out of extreme speed. Also, in some of the games I play against my friends, they sometimes read into the air dodge and punish it. However, I will probably adapt my play to using some other gimmicks to recover, namely going for a fair into an extremespeed cancel or a wall jump on a walled stage or some form of a ledge tech.

Against level 9 cpu's I don't notice much difference from not having invincibility from double team cancel appraoches. Also, I have been hit out of them before in 3.5, so I just imagine that it will be even easier to do so than before. Thusly, we will probably have to stop relying on double team for an approach and use it more for a punish. This hurts lucario's neutral even more, but defines him even better as a punish character.

TLDR; Lucario was nerfed heavily, but was nerfed in an elegant manner to make him a better fit for project M as a whole.

EDIT: After playing with my friends, I have been getting grabbed alot more. Other than that, and the lack of air dodge out of up B, I don't really have any problems with 3.6 lucario. I'll definetely continue playing this character as my main.

 

[Krumpberry]

Does anyone else find his new run kinda dumb looking? What was wrong with his run before?

 

[Rᴏb]

They were trying way too hard to make a "cool" running animation. The old one was better.

 

[Kerfuffle]

New run looks fine I think. A little silly, but i'm sure once we're used to it it'll look more natural. After playing my friends Roy today, I got clobbered whenever I was offstage. I had no way to perfectly sweet-spot the ledge every single time or eat an f-smash. And Roy's fsmash goes slightly below the ledge for whatever reason, so the spacing on it was ridiculously hard. I don't have airdodge as an option anymore so it really makes that MU a lot harder for me personally. I think that alone is going to make a few MUs a bit more in the favor of the opponent. Also, one other thing i noticed is that ASC up smash seems to look and feel a lot smoother. I love the up-b cancel animation, but it feels a little clunky. I feel you don't hold in the air as long. May take some getting used to.

 

[FireBall Stars]

Lucario's dash and run animation in 3.5 and before was for the most part ported from Sheik, and needless to say, didn't fit the character and also didn't account for how Lucario's legs are structured.

We're definitely open to keep improving any animations though, being for the final version of 3.6 on in the future. I personally think the dash animation has the most room for improvement.

 

[AkashSky]

Lucario's dash and run animation in 3.5 and before was for the most part ported from Sheik, and needless to say, didn't fit the character and also didn't account for how Lucario's legs are structured.

We're definitely open to keep improving any animations though, being for the final version of 3.6 on in the future. I personally think the dash animation has the most room for improvement.

I missed the dash animation from 3.5 though, because in the falco matchup, if you dashed forward the lasors that were not perfectly alligned with the ground would miss and go through over lucario's head. Although the dash animation is kinda small considering the other changes.

 

[Zoa]

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/021/d/f/running_lucario_by_dedhpkmn-d5sa61g.png

How about this running animation? It's the one used in various things, and used in games like the Mystery Dungeon series. It's pretty streamlined.

 

[superlucario603]

Personally I can't even play him anymore. Without the air dodge out of aura cancelled up b, he has no recovery. Literally two Ganon Fairs took me off the stage and ExtremeSpeed wouldn't take me close enough back to the stage. For actual 3.6, they NEED to either give it back, or buff his ExtremeSpeed a lot.

 

[Misuse]

Lucario's dash and run animation in 3.5 and before was for the most part ported from Sheik, and needless to say, didn't fit the character and also didn't account for how Lucario's legs are structured.

We're definitely open to keep improving any animations though, being for the final version of 3.6 on in the future. I personally think the dash animation has the most room for improvement.

I just have a question about what "fit the character" means. I've heard it many times from what we'll call "lucario nerf enthusiasts" and it never makes sense. It always seems like a cop-out way to say "I don't like this".

I can only speak for myself, but i can safely say I don't care about changing animations, I'd much prefer actual game content to change rather than the aesthetics.

I might just be salty at the bundle of nerfs handed to my underplayed character, but I thought I'd voice my concerns
Thanks~
Misuse

P.S no disrespect intended, I know you all do your best. I just love my character <3

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I don't think Lucario was a good character at all in 3.5, now that he for some reason got nerfed harsher than any other character he doesn't seem remotely viable. It's not that I am just bad at Lucario either, admittedly I'm no IPK, but a Lucario player has yet to win a large tournament, unless there is one that I am not aware of. Now this doesn't mean that in order for every character to be proven decent they have to win a tournament. That would be stupid, but he wasn't top tier in 3.0 and he has only received nerfs since.
It doesn't matter if people think he is balanced, truth is he can't stand up against other characters at even moderate level gameplay. People like I Punch Kidz have poured a lot of time into this character and and still haven't won a big tournament. Now I could feel very ignorant if someone shows me a tournament where some 3.5 Lucario messed **** up and did need some changes, but I have yet to see that.

 

[purplebird]

Lucario's dash and run animation in 3.5 and before was for the most part ported from Sheik, and needless to say, didn't fit the character and also didn't account for how Lucario's legs are structured.

We're definitely open to keep improving any animations though, being for the final version of 3.6 on in the future. I personally think the dash animation has the most room for improvement.

I feel that those animations in 3.5 and prior fit the character better than the new ones in 3.6. They seem fiercer and more controlled. If I'm to be honest the new dash and run animations bring to mind a dopey newspaper boy rushing to complete his route so that he can get home and get some ice-cream. Don't get me wrong, I love all the work you guys have put into this project. It is amazing what this endeavor has become, however I feel that some things seem to get forced. An example of that is in these two animations. I feel that if lucario's body was moved lower to the ground and had snappier movements the look would be much improved.

hopefully I didn't come off as rude, and I apologize if i did, I'm always worried about that in forums.

 

[LupinX]

I thought the hits were pretty rough imo. They could've at least made ExtremeSpeed have more range due to no airdodge + landlag punish. I do think it's much harder to gain aura and this change will probably make lucario plays more defensive than ever. But when he has a hit confirm, it should IMMEDIATELY equal a stock loss.
The 5% damage from aura taunting is actually a good thing. You can taunt can actually help you not get into a comboed by other characters aka Marth. So it's a mixed blessing imo

 

[Fearless]

Yeah the new taunt is definitely interesting and not the primary concern, if anything though, I feel like it should have some IASA frames if you hold it down.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

I would just like to point out that ASC lag wasn't doubled. You have to wait till frame 10 iirc to cancel I the first place. It went from 14 frames -> 18 frames.

 

[FireBall Stars]

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/021/d/f/running_lucario_by_dedhpkmn-d5sa61g.png

How about this running animation? It's the one used in various things, and used in games like the Mystery Dungeon series. It's pretty streamlined.

That's where much of the movement in the new run animation was taken from (and other official depictions of Lucario running).

I understand that after so much time you've grown attached to the dash and run animations and they are now connected to the character for you.

Don't worry guys, every feedback, regarding aesthetics or gameplay will be well received, being positive or negative, we always want to hear what you think. It's an important part of improving the game.

 

[Risky]

I see his playstyle becoming more focused on Force Palms. ASC pressure got nerfed, DT intangibility got nerfed, everything can be grabbed now (though admittedly I had no idea it was even grab invulnerable). FP accounts for most of this and actually was involved in our only framesafe shield pressure (ftilt -> FP). Buttons like Luigi Nair were really annoying for us to face before and are now going to be more effective since all ASC followups will be that much slower.

Huge recovery nerf to an incredibly dumb recovery to begin with so that's whatever. You'll have to use your aura on DT Dairs to get back to stage instead of save it, or aim for the stage with an ESC and cover your landing with an aerial.

Keeping track of aura is far more intuitive now with a simple formula of 1:1 damage, and now we also have a flash to show when we get it! Nice quality of life changes.

when i dash i expect him to "meep meep" at me - quote from facebook

 

[Zoa]

That makes sense. I noticed some of that in his running animation. However I think it would make more sense to use a more streamlined and fierce running style that incorporates the commonly used running style. Lucario is very serious, and very controlled with his fighting style. A low running height coupled with a fairly fierce running style would really match his personality and body language.

Edit:

@ FireBall Stars

I just want to ask since I've asked this to other PMDT members, but never got an answer. One of the aesthetic changes to Lucario I'm not too particularly fond of was the removal of wall cling period. Wall cling was nerfed for each character capable of using it to once per air time. Is there any possibility to see it added again?

 

[Kerfuffle]

Yeah, really sad that he got hit so hard. Basically took everything that required any sort of counterplay or critical thinking from the opponent and either removed it or just made it worse. Its one thing to take out invincible approaches to more define him as a punish character, but then nerf his punish game so much too? Then on top of that, nerf his recovery and aura gain. This really turns me off the character a little, I'm not going to lie. He was a very strong character that rewarded good tech skill and fast reaction time, and was very difficult to play. Now he's just flat out worse. Just as difficult, just much worse.

 

[Darkgun]

So... maybe I am a bit too forgiving as a person here, but I'm not really seeing what was so painful about these changes. The adjustments really just seem to trend towards less braindead play.

---------------
...Why did we have grab-invuln? On anything really? Parrying a grab with ASC was fun, but super strange, for example.

ASC still functions for combos on tumbling opponents, allowing Lucario to be just as silly as he always has been once he's touched the opponent, however the shield mixups are nowhere near as fierce as they used to be via a single, offensive cancel. Also no more nair>ASC OOPS NO KNOCKBACK moments because the opponent SDI'd in hard.

Charge on shield is sad to see go, but it has been replaced with reward for beating shield as opposed to beating up on shield in the form of Aura on uncharged FP and pummel. Also additional Aura for silly "aFP the dead guy just because!" is a fun plus.

FP got a ninja buff in that it now seems to send opponents into tumble super early (like at 0%, dair(1st)>aFP), meaning Lucario is not actually negative on hit at early percents with aFP anymore and FP is now easier to followup out of due to additional hitstun.

DTC is no longer a braindead counter action. It still functions wonderfully in combos, still works to punish projectiles and more committal options, and gives more reason to cancel at the very end of DT as opposed to earlier.

uSmash got a ninja buff with a physics change that allows Lucario four notable different outlets from the move (this is seriously cool, by the way. uSmash>ASC(grounded),ASC(aerial early), ASC(aerial late), DJ. The ASC actions don't burn double jump, and can put Lucario in position for an immediate aerial follow up).

More hitlag on last hits of ES theoretically makes cancel followups easier. No airdodge is sad, but that technically only applies to an aerial started ES (not that I can think of any reason to air dodge out of ESC ever anyway outside of recovery).

--------------------
Obviously this does mean that Lucario suffers in some form, since one of his difficult to challenge approaches, DTC, now lacks intangibility on cancel, and no air dodge means recovery will be harder due to a lack of mixups not to mention over extension off stage is not as far away anymore (the only reason I'm not critical of this is that this lack of air dodge is reflected across the cast for non special fall recoveries), ASC vs non tumbling opponent I believe puts Lucario at disadvantage, and no longer does winning Neutral with Lucario translate to touching the opponent's shield. So yeah, less effective neutral, which is sad and difficult. The changes also require more optimization in play than previous iterations.

I'll comment on the dash animation if I ever can think of a better one to draw and show.

 

[Misuse]

@ Darkgun , I really have to counter your idea of less brain dead play. I competed in a local 3.6 tournament yesterday and I found myself having to rely on basic "braindead" play to win any games what-so-ever. Whenever I tried to play lucario as fast as I did in 3.5 his new animations/tech/other stuff was too slow to keep up. I consistently ASC'd too quickly and air dodged off stage, DT cancels became too risky to continue any combos so the safe, smart option was to slow down or to give up the combo. In addition to looking flat out stupid his dash animation allowed for stray aerial hits to connect and the lack of air dodge hit me much harder than expected. The only redeeming factor (to me) of 3.6 is that usmash feels cleaner and more viable (in my play style at least).

IMO-------
I despise 3.6 lucario, nothing about him feels good or fun anymore, I hate the way he runs and the new animations, I play the game for the speed and combos rather than little aura flashes to show you how cool it is when you get aura. I really hope the PMDT can figure out a way to:
1. Make him cool again, not like a dope.
2. Nerf him, but not to the unplayable level.
3. Stop saying "to make more like melee" or "it fits the character better". If we wanted to play like melee, we would play melee.

I really don't mean to hate so much, but I'm extremely disappointed in this patch. We don't need stock-face icons. The dots were streamline, we don't need an explosion when a character takes fatal damage, it's tacky. We don't need to be like melee, we're a different game. We do need a new announcer, I can't believe this one passed.

 

[redcometchar]

Hahaha
@ FireBall Stars
Love the new animations and the game. Thanks for all the work.

I have to sympethise with darkgun on this one. Grab invincibility on cancels was unneccisarry. Getting rewarded with aura for hitting shield was kinda strange.

As a wolf player who plays against a lucario regularly I always felt as if I had to work much harder and have massively bettr techskill to pressure shields.

On the other hand rip asc. I fail to see how asc deserved a nerf but shine does not.

Edit: and I dont mean like the aerial knockback change that fox got, although that was awseome.

 

[Zoa]

Looking at the situation to help limit subjectivity I find myself agreeing with AkashSky on these points:

"Secondly, I feel that the change where we don't get aura on shield is justified, and even more so justified when they gave us a buff to counteract the shield Nerf, as in Force Palm yields aura. So, if the opponent is on shield, you can still get aura by force palming them, (although this is easier said than done). Since lucario also retains Ohc on shield, we have not actually lost any options against shielding opponents.

Now, lets move on to what I dislike. Lucario's recovery nerf after having double team not reset after getting hit was more than enough of a nerf. I dislike the fact that lucario cannot air dodge out of extreme speed. Also, in some of the games I play against my friends, they sometimes read into the air dodge and punish it. However, I will probably adapt my play to using some other gimmicks to recover, namely going for a fair into an extremespeed cancel or a wall jump on a walled stage or some form of a ledge tech.

Against level 9 cpu's I don't notice much difference from not having invincibility from double team cancel appraoches. Also, I have been hit out of them before in 3.5, so I just imagine that it will be even easier to do so than before. Thusly, we will probably have to stop relying on double team for an approach and use it more for a punish. This hurts lucario's neutral even more, but defines him even better as a punish character."

It makes sense to remove aura gain on shield because that's a bit toxic. You should be rewarded for proper connections against your opponent instead of hitting shield. Removal of air dodge is gonna have me work harder, but Luc still has mix up options to recover with. This is fine. I'm not critical of it either thanks to Darkgun's point of view on it. I'm also not against the removal of 10 frames of intangibility transferring over to the next action. Doing a DTC cancel into an aerial against a grounded opponent is toxic as well. Grounded moves can't clank with aerials, so we're basically getting 10+ frames of an intangible, unclankable attack option against grounded foes. That's pretty ridiculous.

However I'm still thoroughly disappointed because I feel we weren't compensated enough for the loss of these options. Granted the were pretty freaking janky, and needed to be nerfed to fit PM better as a whole, but it mostly served to nerf our character more than anything. This is just my personal opinions, but I've been saying this for a while. Can we get a fully charged AS to go back to vanilla Brawl speeds to help control space, and get wall cling out of DJ only? Wall cling was nerfed to once per airtime, so you can't repeatedly stall with it, and it would only serve to help Luc in walled situations. This is a complete contrast to when you could wall cling out of ES. Vanilla Brawl speed fully charged AS isn't that toxic either as a compensation option. It still requires a charge, and is unable to kill Mario until very high percentages (120% at least) with poor DI. They're only minor touch ups to Luc's arsenal to help compensate for the removal of options, and aren't all that toxic so he stays with the goals set by the PMDT.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

rereading the Lucario change list........realizes that they doubled asc time and the plethora of merciless nerfs .........slowly inserts SD into PC.......removes 3.6b.........puts in 3.5.

 

[Darkgun]

rereading the Lucario change list........realizes that they doubled asc time and the plethora of merciless nerfs .........slowly inserts SD into PC.......removes 3.6b.........puts in 3.5.

Hue hue hue. Go try out 2.1 Lucario. Hear that stuff was bonkers. Something about a 6 frame FP and instant intangibility DT.

Also, to make sure it is understood, the adjustment to ASC increases the total time to execute the action to 20 frames, up from 16. Humorously, this increase in cancel duration has resulted in my rolling out of ASC less frequently (and due to tech errors from relearning, dashing out as well).

Also also, I am no longer sure about the additional hitlag on the last few hits of ES (if it isn't the case, PMDT, it is dangerous to go alone! Take this!), as the audio on ES is now so very different and I feel I might have mistook the audio change as some kind of weird cue. I'll have to play with it more.

Was going to comment on how I wasn't the biggest fan of Lucario's dash animation, but not only have I started to warm up to it, but the more I scrutinize over it, the more I see the early suggestion ideas I had. At this point the only problems I have with it are the dash startup animation and his arm positions during the full run, as they don't seem to reflect the typical readied fighter design Lucario has elsewhere in his visual design. Wonder what it would look like if he leaned even deeper into his dash. Like... C. Falcon meets Marth levels of high knees, I'd bet.

Oh, and apparently FP only counts as 10% Aura (deals 13% damage unstaled. Haven't tested this vs damage staling.), making it the only attack that does not feature a 1.0 Aura generation rate that I can find.

Edit: FP Aura generation does stale with the percent damage dealt, suggesting that the Aura gained is a multiplier based on damage as opposed to a static value, which aligns with the rest of Lucario's Aura generating options..

 

[Titibandit]

Regarding the new animations, I really like them overall. I kinda missed the vBrawl N-air animation so I'm happy to see it back in his ES-cancel animation. The new up-smash animation is really gorgeous, like, really. I have no problem with the new running animation. Even the position of the arm doesn't disturb me. It kinda feel like those anime/ninja characters which fits Lucario in my opinion. Maybe make him lean more towards the ground to make it look more fierce ? It would just be a matter of tunning, but the overall style is really good already.

Gameplay-wise, I can't comment too much because I'm not that good of a player, but for me, the biggest hit so far is the recovery by not being able to air-dodge anymore. Maybe to compensate, we could make use of other options, that don't necessarly increase his raw recovery distance, but would allow for more mixups and decisions. I'm also thinking of wall-clinging, that could make Lucario more present off-stage. And what about being able to slightly angle aerial DT ? Maybe from downwards 45 degree to almost horizontal (and other direction in between ?)

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

The animations do look great, something was always off when Lucario dash danced and it just looked weird, but now dash and Usmash look sexy as hell.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Hue hue hue. Go try out 2.1 Lucario. Hear that stuff was bonkers. Something about a 6 frame FP and instant intangibility DT.

Also, to make sure it is understood, the adjustment to ASC increases the total time to execute the action to 20 frames, up from 16. Humorously, this increase in cancel duration has resulted in my rolling out of ASC less frequently (and due to tech errors from relearning, dashing out as well).

Also also, I am no longer sure about the additional hitlag on the last few hits of ES (if it isn't the case, PMDT, it is dangerous to go alone! Take this!), as the audio on ES is now so very different and I feel I might have mistook the audio change as some kind of weird cue. I'll have to play with it more.

Was going to comment on how I wasn't the biggest fan of Lucario's dash animation, but not only have I started to warm up to it, but the more I scrutinize over it, the more I see the early suggestion ideas I had. At this point the only problems I have with it are the dash startup animation and his arm positions during the full run, as they don't seem to reflect the typical readied fighter design Lucario has elsewhere in his visual design. Wonder what it would look like if he leaned even deeper into his dash. Like... C. Falcon meets Marth levels of high knees, I'd bet.

Oh, and apparently FP only counts as 10% Aura (deals 13% damage unstaled. Haven't tested this vs damage staling.), making it the only attack that does not feature a 1.0 Aura generation rate that I can find.

At this point I'd settle for 3.0.

 

[purplebird]

I've an idea for the upB. I feel that not being able to air-dodge out of upB for recovery makes sense. However This takes away a lot of onstage uses (such as wave-landing to chase or wait and see what your opponent does).

what if Lucario could air-dodge out of upB cancel if he still had his double-jump or if he upBs from the ground. This would retain its onstage offensive uses while still removing the recovery option of the air-dodge.

other thoughts:

I feel that having ASC IASA being 6 instead of 8 would be beneficial. Its still a nerf to the ASC from 3.5, but it makes short hop -> wave-bounce/b-reversal ASC -> fair/dair/uair/wave-land/perfect-land more lenient. Having those movement and attack options were some of my favorite things about Lucario in the previous patch. I'd be a shame to lose most of those options.

I think the uptaunt damage is a bit much, 5% for each 5 aura points is not worth it. The idea behind it is good; a tradeoff of aura for damage, makes one think about it. I think itd be good to have the first charge up give 5% damage, then 3%, then 1%. Or if that is to little, have it build up to 5% damage.

I agree with all the other changes, or at least I don't mind them (except the dash/run animations, but that is just a cosmetic thing).
​

 

[666blaziken]

I've an idea for the upB. I feel that not being able to air-dodge out of upB for recovery makes sense. However This takes away a lot of onstage uses (such as wave-landing to chase or wait and see what your opponent does).

what if Lucario could air-dodge out of upB cancel if he still had his double-jump or if he upBs from the ground. This would retain its onstage offensive uses while still removing the recovery option of the air-dodge.

other thoughts:

I feel that having ASC IASA being 6 instead of 8 would be beneficial. Its still a nerf to the ASC from 3.5, but it makes short hop -> wave-bounce/b-reversal ASC -> fair/dair/uair/wave-land/perfect-land more lenient. Having those movement and attack options were some of my favorite things about Lucario in the previous patch. I'd be a shame to lose most of those options.

I think the uptaunt damage is a bit much, 5% for each 5 aura points is not worth it. The idea behind it is good; a tradeoff of aura for damage, makes one think about it. I think itd be good to have the first charge up give 5% damage, then 3%, then 1%. Or if that is to little, have it build up to 5% damage.

I agree with all the other changes, or at least I don't mind them (except the dash/run animations, but that is just a cosmetic thing).
​

They changed the taunt so you can be more disrespectful towards your opponents. It's like you're saying "I don't care how much damage I take, I already know I am going to win"

 

[Darkgun]

They changed the taunt so you can be more disrespectful towards your opponents. It's like you're saying "I don't care how much damage I take, I already know I am going to win"

Is that what it says? Because all it seems to say to me is

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUGH
THIS HURTS
SOOO
MUCH!

Then again, I was never really good at reading the mood.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Yeah, the taunt is a dumb change. I really want to hear the conversation that lead to this change.

 

[JayMan-X]

guys 3.6 lucario's new run animation is soo SICK
somebody teach me how to play this character