3.6 change suggestions for Samus?

[❤ Nikodemus05]

I'd like easier beam swap canceling, along with not reverting to crouch position when dropping a bomb while crawling.

 

[Jadeyes]

I'm against making the beam swap easier. I kind of enjoy the taunt cancelling stuff. I also think that it's a good thing that the swap requires some form of investment; I wouldn't want it any easier then the current taunt cancel method.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Id like ice mode selectable from start. The swap is fine at the moment.
id like a little ice buff, maybe get rid of the non kb hitbox of dtilt.

not much id change about samus tbh. shes pretty damn good as is.

 

[Jadeyes]

Ice on start up is definitely a good idea. The Dynadash AMA on the subreddit had whispers of changes to her bombs, and something new for the beams. Don't really know what any of that could be though. (He clarified that it isn't a new beam, which is probably for the best.)

She really is kinda perfect how she is though.

 

[pooch182]

I'd like to see a slight buff of zair, probably a balance between 3.0 and 3.5. Also, ice up smash should be a shorter hit, because its coverage is absurd.

I still think she got the worst hit to recovery of the Z tethers, and I'd like to see a change to her recovery if tethers aren't going to be changed. Possibly something with the classic shine spark dash, which would be dope af.

Ice fsmash feels useless with its current design, and dtilt is garbage for its angles and hitboxes. I would like to see a temporary ice patch that affects traction or something unique like that. It'll make dtilt more useful in ice, and really differentiate itself from plasma mode.

Lots of ideas to be had for Samus. Overall, she's got a pretty decent design, though.

 

[cisyphus]

Any incentive to use ice outside of floaty matchups would be awesome tbh. Ice Up Smash is literally the only good thing about it at the moment.

 

[Narpas_sword]

just make dtilt trip and we done.

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

just make dtilt trip and we done.

This.

 

[Orion Prime]

Word on the street is selectable ice mode at start of game is happening.

Am I crazy or were the invincibility frames on upB reduced in 3.5? Either way a couple more on aerial upB would be nice...

 

[Narpas_sword]

i hate that feet can beat screw attack.
But thats the metroid fan in me.
A move that essentialy goes through brick should get beaten by feet =/

after seeing this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/37eib5/the_first_recorded_instance_of_ice_fsmash_working/

I began to think how wonderful it would be for ice fsmash first hit to have no knockback or SDI (so it hold you for the second hit)
then have the second hit only freeze you, no KB either. So you can offstage freeze kill like Judgement 8 =p

 

[Chevy]

I want bomb-cancel z-air back pretty badly.

I think ice f-smash initial hit should come out sooner, it can still be a little slower than fire, but 16 frames compared to 10 is kinda silly. If it was faster you could actually hit with it and it would serve it's purpose as a weak kill move at high percents. I'm fine with ice block only linking at low percents, but the vertical knockback is insane, it's actually impossible to follow-up 90% of the time. So pretty much make it come out a little faster, decrease knockback on freeze hit, and it would have it's niche applications.

 

[Narpas_sword]

it would be cool if, instead of being a ko tool, it was a more reliable combo tool, into potential ice fair like your clip.

add more low kb hits, so it's like a drill. then low popup (like a downthrow, but a little higher)

 

[bubbaking]

I'm against making the beam swap easier. I kind of enjoy the taunt cancelling stuff. I also think that it's a good thing that the swap requires some form of investment; I wouldn't want it any easier then the current taunt cancel method.

What's wrong with the swap being easier? Sheik and Zelda can swap entire movesets with invincibility and no lag and we can't get an easier beam swap? That being said, I actually like the current taunt method, but I think the actual switch should happen earlier in the animation. As it is now, you have to cancel the taunt pretty late into the animation, and if it's done too early, then you don't get the swap. Samus doesn't slide very far when she taunts, so making the taunt cancel switch that late discourages me from just doing that over simply taunting at neutral when I have space (it's still pretty fast). Neutral never fails, but I risk getting nothing from edge cancelling even a little too early. Making the taunt cancel just a tad earlier, I feel, would give more incentive to actively go for the edge-cancelled taunts.

Speaking of beam swaps, the ice phase really needs to be given some better utility. As of now, the only real reasons to use it are usmash and fair at high %'s and ice homing missiles. Ice fsmash absolutely sucks, ice super missiles are underwhelming (although I guess that's a good tradeoff for broken homing missiles), and ice dtilt is hard to capitalize off of outside of edgeguarding. If fsmash was at least made a little better, that would be a big improvement. As of now, it's too weak (it won't kill peeps at 150%), and the two-hit gimmick never works.

Do something about her tether. As a Melee Samus main, I still find it very disgruntling that in situations where I could tether a wall, walljump out of tether, or do a plethora of other nifty and useful tricks (rising grapple, rising grapple cancel, and high jump, to name a few), I am severely limited to just being ledgehogged in PM. At least in 3.0, her tether was really long, but right now, her recovery is kinda easy to edgeguard or heavily punish. The universal tether changes alone hit her pretty hard, but decreasing the length to what it is now was a bit much, IMO. It's pretty easy for a lot of chars to just hit her when she tries to get into tether range. When it comes to recovery, everything I can do just feels like a really lackluster version of what she could do in Melee. In Melee, if the opponent grabbed the ledge, Samus could tether walljump > upB immediately, rising grapple past the ledge (w/o locking onto it), rising grapple cancel into an aerial, high jump (rising grapple cancel next to the stage), etc. OK, none of those options exist with current ledge mechanics, but looking at what she does have: In Melee, Samus can drift back offstage immediately after being hogged, and if she decides to drift onstage, there is no lag once she hits the ground. Oh yeah, let's not forget that her tether has a hitbox. In PM, she takes so long to drift that it can be easily reacted to and there are plenty of set-ups that equally account for both drifting on and offstage. If she decides to land onstage, then there's that forced 30 frames of landing lag. Also, no hitbox on tether to at least threaten edgehoggers. Obviously, giving Samus all of her Melee perks is either not possible or not practically feasible when coupled with the PM perks, but without any of them, I'm gonna say that her recovery now is just flat-out worse than it was in Melee, which is really saying something.

Other than that, I think Samus is one of the most well-designed characters in this patch. Just a few slight changes to ice phase and recovery and she'll be perfect, I think.

 

[Chevy]

What's wrong with the swap being easier? Sheik and Zelda can swap entire movesets with invincibility and no lag and we can't get an easier beam swap? That being said, I actually like the current taunt method, but I think the actual switch should happen earlier in the animation. As it is now, you have to cancel the taunt pretty late into the animation, and if it's done too early, then you don't get the swap. Samus doesn't slide very far when she taunts, so making the taunt cancel switch that late discourages me from just doing that over simply taunting at neutral when I have space (it's still pretty fast). Neutral never fails, but I risk getting nothing from edge cancelling even a little too early. Making the taunt cancel just a tad earlier, I feel, would give more incentive to actively go for the edge-cancelled taunts.

Speaking of beam swaps, the ice phase really needs to be given some better utility. As of now, the only real reasons to use it are usmash and fair at high %'s and ice homing missiles. Ice fsmash absolutely sucks, ice super missiles are underwhelming (although I guess that's a good tradeoff for broken homing missiles), and ice dtilt is hard to capitalize off of outside of edgeguarding. If fsmash was at least made a little better, that would be a big improvement. As of now, it's too weak (it won't kill peeps at 150%), and the two-hit gimmick never works.

Do something about her tether. As a Melee Samus main, I still find it very disgruntling that in situations where I could tether a wall, walljump out of tether, or do a plethora of other nifty and useful tricks (rising grapple, rising grapple cancel, and high jump, to name a few), I am severely limited to just being ledgehogged in PM. At least in 3.0, her tether was really long, but right now, her recovery is kinda easy to edgeguard or heavily punish. The universal tether changes alone hit her pretty hard, but decreasing the length to what it is now was a bit much, IMO. It's pretty easy for a lot of chars to just hit her when she tries to get into tether range. When it comes to recovery, everything I can do just feels like a really lackluster version of what she could do in Melee. In Melee, if the opponent grabbed the ledge, Samus could tether walljump > upB immediately, rising grapple past the ledge (w/o locking onto it), rising grapple cancel into an aerial, high jump (rising grapple cancel next to the stage), etc. OK, none of those options exist with current ledge mechanics, but looking at what she does have: In Melee, Samus can drift back offstage immediately after being hogged, and if she decides to drift onstage, there is no lag once she hits the ground. Oh yeah, let's not forget that her tether has a hitbox. In PM, she takes so long to drift that it can be easily reacted to and there are plenty of set-ups that equally account for both drifting on and offstage. If she decides to land onstage, then there's that forced 30 frames of landing lag. Also, no hitbox on tether to at least threaten edgehoggers. Obviously, giving Samus all of her Melee perks is either not possible or not practically feasible when coupled with the PM perks, but without any of them, I'm gonna say that her recovery now is just flat-out worse than it was in Melee, which is really saying something.

Other than that, I think Samus is one of the most well-designed characters in this patch. Just a few slight changes to ice phase and recovery and she'll be perfect, I think.

I think the fact that you have to weigh whether or not you want to go for the taunt cancel switch is evidence enough that it's fine as is. There might as well not be a change animation at all if it taunt cancelled any earlier, it's supposed to be something you can only do if you have a little bit of room.

Melee tethers have and always will be the ideal solution, but until(if ever) the PMDT figures it out, we're stuck with the bad Brawl system. That said, there's no reason for 30 damn frames of landing lag from the edgehog. Other tether characters don't have it nearly as bad, because they aren't as floaty as Samus, but it honestly just seems like a giant oversight. Mechanic is bad when literally everyone who figures it out says "wow that's bad."Why does my opponent get to whiff two attacks in a row and still get a grab punish if I opted to drift on to stage? Nevermind that most characters can cover every option from the pull-up anyway. I'd rather they just bring tether dropping back(at least for the z-tether characters). It was the one boon we had for Brawl tethers, and removing just killed a bunch of recovery tech and simplified that part of the game.

Tethers are a black mark on the otherwise beautiful game. Ice mode needs tweaks.

 

[Narpas_sword]

man it would be (too) awesome if we could beam swap on the fly. like, still mapped to taunt, but it only has an animation on the gun, doesnt ground you (can be used in air) and has ISA frames as soon as the animation is complete.

and yea, the global tether changes were a bit silly, they needed to be suited to each character, if that was possible, im not sure.

 

[Ivko]

The main thing I'd like to see is tether changes. After 3.5 hit, I figured it was just a short matter of time until everyone knew how to guard vs the tether, but for whatever reason, I still don't see it as much as I think I should. It's brainless and super easy to nullify the tether in situations she doesn't have up-B as an option and it shouldn't be that way.

Second, I wouldn't mind seeing buffs to ice f-smash and maybe d-tilt, but I'm fine with continuing to rarely use ice mode too, so whatever. F-smash in particular is embarrassingly bad though and needs to be improved.

Finally, I'd like to see it be harder to SDI out of up-air and up-B without even trying to. And maybe a slight reduction on z-air end lag, but that's debatable.

 

[bubbaking]

I was showing @Boiko this yesterday, but some characters like Ganon and such can literally edgeguard Samus' tether for free. If she's forced to recover below the ledge, she's a goner. Ganon simply has to grab/float above the ledge and then come down with reverse uair and it's curtains. Then there's her super floaty tether hop...