• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

3.5 Pit Frame Data and Guide (WiP) - trying to find time for 3.6 update

3.5 Pit Frame Data and Guide (WiP) - trying to find time for 3.6 update

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
dude it's raining submitted a new guide:

Pit Frame Data and Guide (WiP) - WiP it good

Pit Guide

Moveset

Jab 1
Hitbox: 5-6
IASA: 20
Total: 24​

Jab 2
Hitbox: 5-6
IASA: 21
Total: 26​

Jab 3
Hitbox: 3-7
IASA: 32
Total: 35​

Rapid Jab
Hitbox: 3,​

Dash Attack
Hitbox:​

Utilt ("Jesus Kicks")
Hitbox: 5-7, 12-15
IASA: 26
Total: 31​

Ftilt (all 3 angles)
Hitbox: 10-13
IASA: 28
Total: 36​

Dtilt
Hitbox: 6-8
IASA: 27
Total: 30​
...
Read more about this guide...
 

Demojay

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Southampton, UK
This looks quite interesting, could I help with making the guide? Also, you need to PM MonkUnit to get the proper aerial landing lag and L Cancel frames since the brawl-box values are incorrect.
 

Demojay

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Southampton, UK
Also, Brawl-box seems to have a problem with d-tilt because i loaded both 3.02 and 3.5 pit in Brawl-box and they both showed that the hitboxes come out at frame 6 while the frame advance in the game shows that they come out at frame 11, which would match the 5 frame start-up nerf in the change-log.
 

Sartron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
291
Location
Central Florida
This looks quite interesting, could I help with making the guide? Also, you need to PM MonkUnit to get the proper aerial landing lag and L Cancel frames since the brawl-box values are incorrect.
The aerial landing lags in BrawlBox are correct.

Also, Brawl-box seems to have a problem with d-tilt because i loaded both 3.02 and 3.5 pit in Brawl-box and they both showed that the hitboxes come out at frame 6 while the frame advance in the game shows that they come out at frame 11, which would match the 5 frame start-up nerf in the change-log.
BrawlBox cannot load FSMs, which is what makes a frame 6 move in BrawlBox appear on frame 11 ingame.

@ dude it's raining dude it's raining
You need to take FSMs into account or your data will be incorrect.
 
Last edited:

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
The aerial landing lags in BrawlBox are correct.



BrawlBox cannot load FSMs, which is what makes a frame 6 move in BrawlBox appear on frame 11 ingame.

@ dude it's raining dude it's raining
You need to take FSMs into account or your data will be incorrect.
I'm gonna have to figure out what FSMs are and how to deal with them. Does that make everything wrong? Or do I just need to be careful if an animation has FSMs in it?
Intuitively, I can imagine it means Frame Speed Modifiers, and I assumed something janky like that was going on, coz all the aerial landing lags said 30 frames.
Also, Brawlbox kept crashing whenever I looked at the Rapid Jab, so that's why that one was incomplete.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
This looks quite interesting, could I help with making the guide? Also, you need to PM MonkUnit to get the proper aerial landing lag and L Cancel frames since the brawl-box values are incorrect.
Yeah, I could definitely use some help.
 

Sartron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
291
Location
Central Florida
I'm gonna have to figure out what FSMs are and how to deal with them. Does that make everything wrong? Or do I just need to be careful if an animation has FSMs in it?
Intuitively, I can imagine it means Frame Speed Modifiers, and I assumed something janky like that was going on, coz all the aerial landing lags said 30 frames.
Also, Brawlbox kept crashing whenever I looked at the Rapid Jab, so that's why that one was incomplete.
You're right, FSMs are frame speed modifiers. They slow/speed up animations ingame.
You only have to be concerned with frame speed modifiers that are on the specific animation.


Landing Lags are:
Neutral: 16/8
Forward: 17/8
Back: 19/9
Up: 22/11
Down: 21/10

Soft Landing: 4
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
You're right, FSMs are frame speed modifiers. They slow/speed up animations ingame.
You only have to be concerned with frame speed modifiers that are on the specific animation.


Landing Lags are:
Neutral: 16/8
Forward: 17/8
Back: 19/9
Up: 22/11
Down: 21/10

Soft Landing: 4
Thanks!

Is there a good way to tell which animations have FSMs and which ones don't?
 

Sartron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
291
Location
Central Florida
Thanks!

Is there a good way to tell which animations have FSMs and which ones don't?
I use OpenSA2 Dump, and just look up the string "frame speed" and write down which subaction has a frame speed modifier in it.
Alternatively, if you can work with Dolphin's debug mode, you can look up the memory address for the current active frame speed modifier.
And the fool proof method (slow) is to open up whatever PSA program of choice and to look through all 4 tabs (Main, GFX, SFX, Other) and write down where you find the frame speed modifiers. There are some "hidden" FSMs in the other 3 tabs besides Main (see Pit's Down Tilt.)

EDIT: Also, the PM codeset has FSMs programmed into it for some characters as well.
 
Last edited:

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I use OpenSA2 Dump, and just look up the string "frame speed" and write down which subaction has a frame speed modifier in it.
Alternatively, if you can work with Dolphin's debug mode, you can look up the memory address for the current active frame speed modifier.
And the fool proof method (slow) is to open up whatever PSA program of choice and to look through all 4 tabs (Main, GFX, SFX, Other) and write down where you find the frame speed modifiers. There are some "hidden" FSMs in the other 3 tabs besides Main (see Pit's Down Tilt.)

EDIT: Also, the PM codeset has FSMs programmed into it for some characters as well.
Sweet, I'll do some more work on this later. We've got a big tourney tomorrow at my school, gotta train up.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Why do people not play this character? It's sheik with a wall of pain lol.
I'm finding that 3.5 Pit autocombos a lot less than before, so you have to really think when playing him. Like it's so easy to send out unsafe arrows and stuff like that.
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Right right, I mean I knew the answer. ;) I ran down throw through a bunch of different characters and it's really pretty similar to Melee Sheik's down throw though. It sets up techchases on Spacies, regrabs on Marth (which requires a jump cancel and probably mediocre DI), and semi-free aerials on floaties. It's a little worse overall but y'know. I don't much like the arrows (though that's inexperience johns) but can definitely see their uses in edgeguarding (their kbg is really nice for avoiding Marth Syndrome). I hadn't really thought about the Sheik similarities until this thread though, since his dash speed is so similar and he has a decent grab range. His dash dance is actually a lot better, too.

I'll try to test some more of the data points later. I'm really curious about shieldstun, especially for nair because doing crossup nair into pivot grab seems really safe, but I wanna be sure of it too.
 
Last edited:

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Right right, I mean I knew the answer. ;) I ran down throw through a bunch of different characters and it's really pretty similar to Melee Sheik's down throw though. It sets up techchases on Spacies, regrabs on Marth (which requires a jump cancel and probably mediocre DI), and semi-free aerials on floaties. It's a little worse overall but y'know. I don't much like the arrows (though that's inexperience johns) but can definitely see their uses in edgeguarding (their kbg is really nice for avoiding Marth Syndrome). I hadn't really thought about the Sheik similarities until this thread though, since his dash speed is so similar and he has a decent grab range. His dash dance is actually a lot better, too.

I'll try to test some more of the data points later.
Thanks for the input! There isn't a diverse spread of PM players at my school, so I myself am not familiar with many matchups.
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I've only played Pit very sparingly, so I've got no first-hand experience, but he's got a lot of good options I think. Have a tournament I'm running today that maybe will let me try him out in some friendlies.

Some missing points/errors I do see though:
Down B only has armor on frames 4 and 5.
Glide Attack has 16 frames of landing lag and can't be l-cancelled.
Nair auto cancels on at least frame 35. Found via FH nair with the input on the 25th airborne frame.
Fair auto cancels on at least frame 26. Found this via SH fair with the fair input on the 7th airborne frame.
UAir auto cancels on at least frame 30. Found via SH UAir with the UAir input on the 3rd airborne frame.
DAir auto cancels on at least frame 33. Found via FH DAir with the DAir input on the 26th airborne frame.
BAir auto canels on at least frame 30. Found via SH BAir with the Bair input on the 3rd airborne frame.

Included the frames used to find the info because I might be counting the landing frame incorrectly.
 
Last edited:

Demojay

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Southampton, UK
Here's the knock-back values (apart from aerials which I'll do in a bit):

Jab 1:

Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 10
Knock-Back Growth: 40
Weight Knock-Back: 0

Jab 2:
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 40
Weight Knock-Back: 70 (Other Hit-Boxes)/ 85 (Left Hand Hit-Box)

Jab 3:
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 50
Knock-Back Growth: 70
Weight Knock-Back: 0

Dash Attack:
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 20
Knock-Back Growth: 100 (Arm Hit-Box) /115 (Other Hit-Boxes)
Weight Knock-Back: 0

F Tilt:
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 50
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 70
:
U Tilt (1):
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 0
Weight Knock-Back: 0/90 (Hip)
Knock-Back Growth: 50/75 (Hip)

U Tilt (2)
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 40
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 80

D Tilt
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 45 (Body) / 22 (Hands)
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 90 (Body) / 95 (Hands)

F Smash 1
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 50
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 20 (Hand/Sword) / 25 (Arm)

F Smash 2
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 30
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 103 (Knee/Shoulder) / 108 (Hand/Sword)

U Smash 1
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 0
Weight Knock-Back: 25
Knock-Back Growth: 100

U Smash 2
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 50
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 40

U Smash 3
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 50 (Hand) / 0 (Leg)
Weight Knock-Back: 0 (Hand) / 25 (Leg)
Knock-Back Growth: 50 (Hand) / 100 (Leg)

U Smash 4
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 50
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 40

U Smash 5
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 55
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 120

D Smash 1
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 30 (Leg) /30 (Shoulder) /25 (Hand) /18 (Sword)
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 100

D Smash 2
Shield Damage: 0
Initial Knock-Back: 20
Weight Knock-Back: 0
Knock-Back Growth: 100
 
Last edited:

Demojay

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Southampton, UK
Name: Damage: Block-Stun: Active: Recovery: Frame Advantage:
Jab 1 3 2 2 18 -18
Jab 2 3 2 2 20 -20
Jab 3 5 4 5 28 -29
Dash Attack (Sword) 12 6 3 36 -33
Dash Attack (Body/Knee) 9 6 3 36 -33
Dash Attack (Hand) 7 4 3 36 -35
F Tilt (Up - Body/Knee) 14 8 4 23 -19
F Tilt (Up - Sword/Hand) 11 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Forward - Body/Knee) 13 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Forward - Sword/Hand) 10 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Down - Body/Knee) 12 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Down -Sword/Hand) 9 6 4 23 -21
U Tilt 1 6 4 3 16 -15
U Tilt 2 7 4 4 16 -16
D Tilt (Body) 12 6 3 22 -19
D Tilt (Sword/Hand) 10 6 3 22 -19
F Smash 1 (Shoulder/Arm) 6 4 6 33 -35
F Smash 1 (Sword/Hand) 4 2 6 33 -37
F Smash 2 (Shoulder/Arm) 15 8 4 33 -29
F Smash 2 (Sword/Hand) 12 6 4 33 -31
U Smash 1 3 2 3 23 -24
U Smash 2 3 2 2 23 -23
U Smash 3 3 2 3 23 -24
U Smash 4 3 2 3 23 -24
U Smash 5 3 2 9 23 -30
D Smash 1 (Shoulder/Leg) 13 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 1 (Hand) 12 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 1 (Sword) 10 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 2 (Shoulder/Leg) 13 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 2 (Hand) 12 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 2 (Sword) 10 6 3 30 -27
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Thanks guys, I've inserted the stuff you've added. I've put an asterisk next to all the stuff I'm not sure about. My friend has some software I might be able to use to make GIFs with.

Stuff that I'll eventually get around to:
  • info for Rapid Jab
  • verify Smash charge times
  • verify Usmash damage
  • verify Arrows aerial startup
  • verify Intangibility on grounded UpB
  • verify Glide B-cancel landing lag
  • verify Reflector reflection frames
  • verify Throw release frames
  • verify Grab range ranking
 
Last edited:

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Name: Damage: Block-Stun: Active: Recovery: Frame Advantage:
Jab 1 3 2 2 18 -18
Jab 2 3 2 2 20 -20
Jab 3 5 4 5 28 -29
Dash Attack (Sword) 12 6 3 36 -33
Dash Attack (Body/Knee) 9 6 3 36 -33
Dash Attack (Hand) 7 4 3 36 -35
F Tilt (Up - Body/Knee) 14 8 4 23 -19
F Tilt (Up - Sword/Hand) 11 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Forward - Body/Knee) 13 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Forward - Sword/Hand) 10 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Down - Body/Knee) 12 6 4 23 -21
F Tilt (Down -Sword/Hand) 9 6 4 23 -21
U Tilt 1 6 4 3 16 -15
U Tilt 2 7 4 4 16 -16
D Tilt (Body) 12 6 3 22 -19
D Tilt (Sword/Hand) 10 6 3 22 -19
F Smash 1 (Shoulder/Arm) 6 4 6 33 -35
F Smash 1 (Sword/Hand) 4 2 6 33 -37
F Smash 2 (Shoulder/Arm) 15 8 4 33 -29
F Smash 2 (Sword/Hand) 12 6 4 33 -31
U Smash 1 3 2 3 23 -24
U Smash 2 3 2 2 23 -23
U Smash 3 3 2 3 23 -24
U Smash 4 3 2 3 23 -24
U Smash 5 3 2 9 23 -30
D Smash 1 (Shoulder/Leg) 13 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 1 (Hand) 12 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 1 (Sword) 10 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 2 (Shoulder/Leg) 13 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 2 (Hand) 12 6 3 30 -27
D Smash 2 (Sword) 10 6 3 30 -27
Are you sure about how you calculated the shield advantage? I randomly plugged some numbers into Strongbad's Knockback calculator, and it has some different results. But then again, it's for melee, I may have typed some stuff wrong too.
 
Top Bottom