"20NessNess" Creating the Perfect Ness

[QuickLava]

I'm looking for suggestions from real experienced Ness mains for a mod I'm doing. I want to make a character mod that takes Ness, and tailors his attributes and properties to fit what Ness players actually want. Ness has always had a soft spot in my heart as my very first main, and it sucks to see that almost no Ness mains exist anymore because of the characters lack of real viability. I mean just look at this forum, it's a ghost town. You guys definitely have it the worst when it comes to competitive play, it's only right that I start here.

I can change almost anything, there aren't many real limitations as far as altering existing moves. Any new moves need to be made from existing animations, that's the only restriction here. All you need to do is request it, and (if it can be done) I'll make it.

EDIT: Version 1.2 Release

Alright, Version 1.2 is ready. This update increases the speed of both Side-B and Down-B. Install using Crazy Hand.

1.) Load your Melee ISO
2.) Select Ness
3.) File -> Load Character
4.) Navigate to downloaded file
5.) Click Save​

Spoiler

"20NessNess" v1 Changelog

Tilts
- F-Tilt

-IASA Changed from 35f to 27f
-Outer hitbox sizes changed from 1000 to 1200​

- U-Tilt

-Hand hitbox size changed from 1500 to 1750
-Body hitbox sized changed from 1500 to 1300​

- D-Tilt

-Outer hitbox size changed from 900 to 1100
-Back/body hitbox size changed from 700 to 900​

Aerials
- N-Air

-Initial hitbox sizes changed from 800/1000 to 1100/1200
-Lingering hitbox sizes changed from 800/1000 to 950/1100​

Specials
- Up-B

-Projectile is 125% normal speed
-Projectile lifetime increased from 120f to 150f
-Turning radius reduced significantly
-PKT2 Initial Momentum changed from 3.6 to 3.8
-Animation after projectile is destroyed changed from 30f to 10f
-Landing lag changed from 24 frames to 15 frames​

- Down-B

-Endlag reduced from 30f to 10f​

- Side-B

-Comes out slightly higher up
-Comes out 5 frames faster
-Removed Angle on Grounded version
-Projectile moves slightly faster
-Projectile lifetime increased from 20f to 25f​

Misc.
- Grab

-Grab hitbox size changed from 800 to 950
-Dash grab hitbox size changed from 850 to 950​

-Dash Attack

-IASA changed from 40f to 30f​

​

Download Link: https://www.mediafire.com/?pqih7a458e596dv

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Not 20NessNess. 199X.

Also here:

Larger hitboxes/more range on:
-nair
-ftilt
-utilt
-dtilt
-grab
-upB
-sideB
Less cooldown on:
-upB
-upB
-downB
-ftilt
-dash attack
Less startup on:
-sideB
-downB
Additionally:
-Larger fullhop
-Ledge grab while facing any direction
-Additional hitboxes on PK Thunder's tail(to make it longer)
-PK Fire starts from a slightly higher point on Ness' body when he uses it from the ground.

 

[gemigumi]

Basically what Simna said

/thread

 

[PK Illuminati]

I'm looking for suggestions from real experienced Ness mains for a mod I'm doing. I want to make a character mod that takes Ness, and tailors his attributes and properties to fit what Ness players actually want. Ness has always had a soft spot in my heart as my very first main, and it sucks to see that almost no Ness mains exist anymore because of the characters lack of real viability. I mean just look at this forum, it's a ghost town. You guys definitely have it the worst when it comes to competitive play, it's only right that I start here.

I can change almost anything, there aren't many real limitations as far as altering existing moves. Any new moves need to be made from existing animations, that's the only restriction here. All you need to do is request it, and (if it can be done) I'll make it.

please make down b viable

anyways lol i'm not sure i want this because i'd rather play ness in tournament and getting used to modded ness will be weird
sorry but have fun gg

 

[gemigumi]

Basically mod ness so he's better, but not different.
Same gameplan, same strengths, same utility for moves.

 

[QuickLava]

Version 1 is ready, check the OP. Doesn't look super different at first, but trust me, it's changed (especially Up-B). Any other suggestions?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

oooh....my suggestion to raise the starting point of pk fire was not considering that you would remove the angle on grounded fire....

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Also.....so you were able to make Ness ledge grab from either facing?

 

[PK Illuminati]

Version 1 is ready, check the OP. Doesn't look super different at first, but trust me, it's changed (especially Up-B). Any other suggestions?

down b less startupctime
side b less starting and ending lag (grounded and aerial)
u-smash hitbox bigger ( yyg pls )

 

[QuickLava]

Also.....so you were able to make Ness ledge grab from either facing?

Ness being able to grab ledges backwards is a system based change, not a character based one, which is bad for us because no one in the tiny Melee modding community has been able to figure much out on that so far. If a method of doing it ever comes about, I'll gladly add it in. And yes, Side-B's angle needed to be removed as a result of the quickened startup on it. When you change things like startup frames, you cannot change the speed of actual animations because those changes can't be embeded in a .dat file as far as I know. What you can do however (which is what I've been doing) is modify a moves subaction tree to more quickly generate a desired result without actually changing the animation. This works for the most part, but in moves like PKF that spawn an article from a specific bone on a specific frame, it makes things rather wonky. Because the bone the PKF spawns from is in a different position than normal when it is summoned, it'll shoot into the ground. I tried readjusting the angle manually to keep it as close as possible, but in the end it didn't work well at all. So I settled with removing the angle entirely. I could revert it though, if you'd like. This extends to you too @ PK Illuminati , as lowering the startup means desyncing the move even further from it's animation. Changing the end lag might be possible though, it's a matter of experimentation.

Edit: Actually, I think I may have found a suitable solution. I cheated a little bit, but I think it looks pretty convincing. Redownload and see what you think.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

If not making ledge grabs possible in any direction, how about this then: Make Ness' upB, downB, B, and sideB all cancellable by ledge grab no matter which way Ness is facing during those moves. Like how Fox/Falco upB works....or Yoshi upB

 

[QuickLava]

Still working on getting Down B to cancel on ledge, so far I've gotten nowhere. Perhaps @ MagicScrumpy could come share his wisdom? That aside, I've come up with a solution to shortening the startup and endlag on Side-B and Down-B. Changed the animations to different things, they should be way faster now and don't look too bad if I do say so myself.

Download Link: https://www.mediafire.com/?pqih7a458e596dv

 

[MagicScrumpy]

I have a thing that lets Ness airdodge out of his Up B thing (after he hits himself with the PK Thunder).

 

[QuickLava]

I have a thing that lets Ness airdodge out of his Up B thing (after he hits himself with the PK Thunder).

Mind telling me how exactly you went about doing that? I imagine whatever process that followed would be very similar to the one I'd need for something like this.

 

[Ganreizu]

I have a thing that lets Ness airdodge out of his Up B thing (after he hits himself with the PK Thunder).

That's actually godlike.

 

[Steak1ey]

i'm no evangelist, but just play pm ness if you don't like vanilla

 

[gemigumi]

And if you don't like PM Ness or PM
PM Ness can't YYG
Kahnu cries.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I've always believed Ness's up-smash is underutilized. I still don't understand why people don't up-smash out of shield.

 

[Baldrdash]

What would giving his f-smash a tipper do? and could his down B get some damage/knockback similar to fox's shine?

 

[thesage]

What would giving his f-smash a tipper do? and could his down B get some damage/knockback similar to fox's shine?

Ness's f-smash has a tipper in normal melee.