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2017 Roy, Personal Guide + Thoughts

Solarquatic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 23, 2015
Messages
14
Location
Chania, Crete, GRE
Hey everyone, Dream here. I'm a Falco main from FL who just recently moved out of the country, and with plenty of time on my hands, I decided to go ahead and chalk down some of my thoughts on Roy, my favorite 2ndary character. I've been playing Melee for a few years at an intermediate level with Falco; and while I don't really play Roy that often in bracket, it's something I've been meaning to change for awhile. I play a lot of Roy on the side and really like exploring what limited tools that the character has, seeing just how far I can go against popular high-tier characters- thoughts it's usually not that far at all.

Regardless, I really wanted to put out a condensed modern guide for people who are looking to try Roy out in late 2016/early 2017. To be honest, aside from exarch's very detailed guide (2015) that's already stickied, there really aren't any practical guides for mid-level players who want to work on a secondary or expand their neutral/combo game with Roy. Nor are there any VOD's from the last 3 years (or even less recent) that are easily found for newer Roy players to watch and learn from. Really, there isn't much at all for people to go on when it comes to expanding their Roy game, leaving many people who might have potentially played him as a secondary instead just dropping the character because they can't learn from a better player how to approach something like Roy's neutral game.

To help do my part in alleviating this problem, I figured I might as well throw out my personal observations on various topics that are pretty important for someone looking to play Roy from a strictly pro/con standpoint. I've played plenty of different matchups over the past year with Roy, and while I'm sure I'm not as good as some of the older Roys that moved on years ago, I'd like to think that I can still contribute something good. Roy boards seem pretty sparse of actual content, so I figure the few crazy mains that stick around would like something to discuss, at the least.


Contents:
  • Warning
  • Roy in the modern, mid-level meta
  • Observed pros/cons
  • Optimal/suboptimal options and moves
  • Working in the neutral
  • Converting the most off a punish
  • Common disadvantaged states
  • Personal experience: character-specific matchups


Preface Warning:

Straight up, for anyone looking to try out Roy on the side, he's not a very good character. Winning battles you could easily take with a top tier are uphill struggles many times, and if you're going to clutch out a win, it's either because you are well ahead of your opponent in experience/tech skill, or they've never played against a competent Roy before (and are running on assumptions of possible working strategies).

Playing Roy really isn't easy- especially at first- so you need to keep in mind that frustration will happen at some points.



Roy in the current meta at mid-level play:

Rare is an understatement for how often you'll find another Roy main / secondary who isn't just playing to mess around. Because Roy is a largely disadvantaged character, and many high-tier characters possess both more and better options, a good Roy will rarely- if ever- be seen. Character proliferation at the local level varies from place to place, but trends of popular characters still follow the 2016 tier list for the most part; meaning that Roy doesn't make an appearance.

Personally, I don't think there's any getting around this. You can't solo main Roy and expect to win much even at your locals, which means that in the current meta of character popularity, I think that the most viable place to play Roy is as a well-tested secondary character to back up a high-tier main. Reserving your pocket Roy for certain matchups is, in my opinion, the best way to play him. Because Roy is such a rarely seen character, there's a good chance that if you pull him out for the first time against an opponent who's even with your skill level, you'll be able to take at least one game from the surprise factor alone.

Realistically, many players at the local level never practice against a Roy. When they see their opponent lock in, they've only got one tried and true piece of advice for winning: crouch cancel. That's it. Roy's biggest benefit to playing him is that your opponent really won't have any idea of what to do in Game 1, and you can exploit that to the fullest. On my own, I basically treat my Roy as a glass box that I break in case of an emergency: if my Falco gets beat Game 1 by someone who obviously knows their high-tier matchups, I might try to shake them up with my Roy and a favorable counterpick rather than lose a second close game with my Falco.

I've observed at my local scene that the more continuous games (counting friendlies) that other people play against my Roy, the more games they start to win as the weeks go by. Matchups that I won with a surprise factor the first week are now grueling battles that end with my Roy being beat, which leads to a high-tier change. I think this factor is the biggest issue with solo Roy's viability: you only have a set number of tricks, and the more someone plays against you, the less those tricks will work.

Essentially, I recommend that if you play Roy, you play him as a well-practiced secondary that works as a niche surprise pick into certain matchups or in situations where you feel like the opponent knows your main too well.



Pros/Cons

+
Speed: Roy is straight up fast. Quick dash, nice dashdance, and a beautiful ledgedash.

+Kill Potential: While you'll be mainly picking up kills with combos into Fsmash, those kills can come pretty early.

+Matchup Inexperience: Like mains of other low-tiers, you'll have plenty of practice against the opposition, but they won't have much (if any) against your character. This surprise factor is a big plus to having a little-seen secondary character you can pull out.

+Fastfaller Combos: Roy has some extremely strong combos against fastfallers, and in particular, a 5-40% chaingrab on spacies. His combo game even works well against some lighter weights like Marth, where low-power aerials allow you to juggle with ease.


-Poor OOS Options: When stuck in shield, you have relatively few options besides wavedash out or go for a shieldgrab, both of which can be overcome.

-Harsh damage falloff: Roy's on aerials is pathetically low if you try to space them right, and the knockback is extremely weak regardless. Still, some properties of his aerials can be useful, but not having a single aerial capable of killing is pretty tough.

-Vulnerable to CC: Crouch cancelling Roy's aerials will lead to instant payoffs for any opponent who has even an inkling of what to to in the matchup, and it makes approaching with Roy a very difficult procedure.

-Combo Fodder

-No Aerial Game: Roy has a great close-to-ground-but-not-on-ground game, but his aerials have heavy endlag that makes them impossible to use offstage without dying, and tricky to use when above the stage.


I left a few notable items off the common list of cons for Roy. I personally don't think that his recovery is as terrible as many would claim: you can stall for a decent distance in midair, and being able to adjust the angle on UpB is a great tool for subtle recovery mixups. While Roy's recovery may be linear in the vertical dimension, it's not near the bottom of the barrel when it comes recoveries.

Finally, Roy's combo game is something that I think would be a highly debated issue. My opinion on it is that while Roy's combos might not do much damage, they still exist by and large- his Dtilt is evidence enough that his combo game, while not as strong as Fox, is not lacking on its own.



Optimal/Suboptimal Moves

When both operating in the neutral and converting hard on a punish, there are some moves you want to keep using, and some you never want to touch. I'll be outlining the what I personally consider to be Roy's better moves, and also giving some personal recommendations for ones I wouldn't use. Some moves (like Jab, some throws) will be skipped to save on length.

---Neutrals
  • Ftilt: Quick, relatively low lag, good knockback scaling. It's everything you need from a Marth-esque option that's essentially the safer, weaker version of Fsmash. Can kill at higher percents, works decently as a grounded spacing tool in the neutral. Combo ender, not extender. Treat it as a more safe Fsmash, with appropriate cost.
  • Dtilt: The quintessential move that unlocks most of Roy's combos. As every old-time Roy main could tell you, you cannot ever use this move enough. Good range, quick ending lag, and a spike of damage that sets you up for a variety of followups depending on the opposing DI; this move cannot be beat. Without a doubt, this is the move you'll be using the most, both to test an opponent's shield and to set up a quick combo.
---Smashes
  • Fsmash: Roy's best killing option. Plenty of aerials can string into an Fmash, which can kill certain characters as low as 50%, even uncharged. While the reverse tipper means you'll need to be up close, this move is what you should be using to close out a stock, every time.
  • Dsmash: Alternative killing option against floaties. Due to its odd- but very strong- vertical knockback, down smash is a personal favorite for cleaning up stocks against Peach/Jigglypuff.
  • Beneficial Tech: Dash-Cancel Down Smash. Crouch-cancelling a dash into a down smash is a great surprise move to pull off against floaty opponents. If you want to try for a kill move mixup, this is one of the better ways to do it.
---Aerials
  • Uair: Fast to start and end, this move's only downside is that its knockback is extremely weak. Still, I really can't recommend Uair enough. It's a great combo extender against fastfallers and medium weights alike, allowing you to juggle an opponent until you're ready to make a move. It's also faster than Fair, which means you can follow up a Dtilt with a SHFFL Uair just a tad faster than Fair when going for a bread-and-butter combo. Sometimes that one frame makes all the difference. Can be used rarely to SAR.
  • Nair: Relatively fast, and it's got well balanced knockback all along the blade which makes it one of your better options to push away an opponent. While I wouldn't recommend approaching with Nair (unsafe on shield), hit 1 Nair -> grab is a good way to tack on some extra percent.
    • Beneficial Application: Instant double jump-> nair onto Battlefield platforms makes for a good pressure option from below, which is one of Roy's worse disadvantage states. It ends quick and can link into a grab if you use it as a cross-up from beneath.
  • Fair: Quick to come out, with weak vertical knockback. This aerial is a great followup from down tilt and can quickly lead into another downtilt or a grab. Its usefulness starts to fall off at higher percents where the knockback becomes less of a reset and more of a useless push-away move, but even for minor spacing applications, Fair can oftentimes be treated just like a weaker Marth Fair. This move can be used pretty often after Dtilt to perform a SAR.
    • Beneficial Tech: Spaghetti Air Reset. Roy's Fair and Uair are weak enough that they have unique properties against airborne opponents, which can happen most often after a Dtlit. Executing a Fair/Uair with good timing will pop the opponent just off the ground in a neutral state, increasing your overall damage and allowing for an easier grab, while also preventing them from teching.
    • The SAR is a cool little application of weak hits that I found is a great way to utilize Roy's weak aerials to capitalize on a missed tech. Rather than trying to read which direction your opponent will get up, you can instantly pop them off the ground with a weak Fair to suspend them directly in front of you for an easy grab. This can be shined out of, but many players won't know to do it in their first matches vs. a Roy.
    • Uair SARs work at low percents by resetting an opponent to neutral state when they are directly above you, but with such little knockback that you can instantly grab them.
  • Dair: Contrast this move to Marth's finishing move for the Ken combo: the spike is useless, but the special knockback (a very specific upward trajectory) when used on a grounded opponent makes the Dair a serviceable combo starter. It's a bit laggy, so it's not always the best option, but it does exist, and with a wide hitbox and meaty knockback, onstage Dair is an important option to keep in mind.
    • Beneficial Application: the Dipper. Late hits with the ending active frames can be used to knock an opponent directly upward and keep them in the Fsmash sweet zone directly behind you. Against spacies, Dipper dair->Fsmash can be a true combo depending on how hard your opponent DIs. An easy setup to pull off the Dipper is Uthrow, which naturally places the opponent behind you unless they DI forwards. At sub 50%, a Dipper is almost guaranteed against a backwards/no DIing opponent.
---Throws
  • Up Throw: 0-42% chaingrabs on FD. If you practice on Marth, these should be old news by now; just don't forget to pummel. Up Throw is arguably Roy's best throw because of how it can easily set up a low% combo against fastfallers. Uthrow->Utilt isn't as viable on Roy as it is on marth, as Utilt seems to have too much knockback to work as a combo extender.
  • Back Throw: Not nearly as good as Up Throw, but it can force a techchase that you can attempt to end with an Fsmash. Situationally useful at best.
---Specials
  • Blazer (UpB): Wonky hitboxes help protect you during recovery, but they aren't what makes this move good. Frame 1 reverse Blazer will OHKO a non-crouching Jigglypuff on Battlefield, FD, Yoshis, and PS, if they don't DI properly. If the Jiggly does DI, you'll have to hit them while airborne or when on a platform. Getting good at landing reverse Blazers is a critical skill for tilting the Jigglypuff MU back towards Roy's favor, as it gives you the only true one hit KO rest punish.
    • Labbing: I'm fairly certain that the opening hit of SHFFL Uair, if cancelled immediately thereafter, will true combo into reverse Blazer. Haven't pulled this off consistently, but if possible, it could be a great option to make the Jigglypuff MU a bit easier by giving another setup.
  • Fire Sword (Neutral): A solid (and obvious) edgeguarding tool that can be used to shut down at least one option of a recovering opponent- assuming it doesn't outright kill them if they miss the sweetspot to ledge. Fire Sword has great base knockback, and its ending lag is small enough that you can functionally use it as Roy's Best Aerial. In practical edgueguarding situations, an offstage Fire Sword is the only move that Roy can throw out offstage and still have a chance to get back from, which makes it an invaluable part of his air kit.
    • Its full charge BM hitbox has a range that no one properly understands, not even the Roy player.
  • Shout out to Counter, which will flat-out kill a Fox out of Firefox starting at 90%. Roy's counter is far stronger than Marth's, so I would recommend pulling it out from time to time when edgeguarding a spacie.
---Suboptimal Moves

I never found these moves to have a use, and they put you in a bad position almost every time you use them.

  • Dash Attack: Broken hitboxes, extremely unsafe on shield, bad combo knockback, and extreme endlag.
  • Bair: Poor range, unsubstantiated knockback, and it will mostly just place you in a worse position after use.
  • Usmash: Fickle hitboxes, prone to being SDI'd out of, and extremely low knockback. Poor option overall.


Working in the Neutral

Depending on who you ask, Roy's current suggested neutral probably involves three things: DED, Fsmash, and Dtilt. Anything else is frivolous. I think this is a pretty lazy approach to describing/developing Roy's neutral, personally, but I can see why it would arise. Roy just doesn't have that many options.

I'd like to start the Neutral section by making an argument for why I think the stress for and over reliance on DED by the veteran Roy mains is something that should be avoided, but I don't have the personal results to back up what claims I might make. Simply put, it's my gut feeling after playing a lot with Roy that I don't think DED is a very valuable move. It interrupts the smooth flow of play that allows you to weave around an opponent, and while the big disjoint is nice, the move itself is just clumsy in comparison to what the rest of Roy's neutral kit could provide under most circumstances.

Going back and watching old VODs, it was almost painful to watch the reliance on DED to do work in the neutral. I think this is crippling to anyone who wants to play Roy somewhat competitively, as leaning on such a telegraphed move is bound to get you punished- sooner, rather than later. Many of the old VODs (from the glory days of Roy mains?) hype up their movement and great neutral, but rather than swift uses of WD OOS, Shield Drops, etc. these players were relying on rolls to make space, and DED to force their opponent in slower.

I don't suggest playing Roy like the old VODs show. If you want to convert big in the neutral, you're going to have to be aggressive. Pressure the opposition's space with your disjointed aerials, even if the knockback is weak. Wavedash back and bait with downtilt. Contest aerials, evening if it means trading- a trade is more likely to give you more space than letting the opponent pound on your shield. Down tilt more than most other moves, and try to bait your opponent into making the first move unless you know you can land a clean strike from a combo starter. Throw out those weak Fairs and defensive Nairs while drifting, and try to bait in your opponent for a down tilt. It's unavoidable that you'll be trading aerials, and sometimes that will work out bad; but working it into your play can give you a far more reactive defense that overreliance on DED.

Down tilt, in my experience, is your in card. If you can properly bait an opponent into a down tilt, you've got a free combo started that leads into some amount of free damage from constant harassing Uairs and Fairs. Against fastfallers and at low percents, the tried and true combo of Dtilt->Uair SAR->Fsmash is a good way to tack on heavy percent. Dtilt->Fair SAR->Regrab is also a great way to get some combos started. In sum, however, I think that in many matchups against high-tiers, Roy is best played as a bait-and-punish character in most MUs, rather than a rushdown. While his close quarters sword may make you want to close the gap quickly, you obtain the best opportunities by getting a good setup first, then moving in. Once your opponent is offbalanced, then you can start to put on the pressure with repeated quick hits. If you make your move too fast though, Roy's bad shield pressure is going to get your approach stuffed.

Above all, don't forget to mix up any of your approaches with constant grabs. Roy's grab range is great, and he can benefit highly from certain throws. Setting up throws with constant wavedashes and empty hop->wavelands will really help space out your timing and allows you to weave through an opponent's defenses far better than simply dash dancing.





Converting the most off a punish

Roy's biggest conversions come from combos that start on the ground, pop an opponent up for a few hits, scoop them up one last time to leave them floating in the sweet spot, then finish with an Fsmash. Whenever you start a combo, regardless of which popular method you use (Dtilt, Uthrow, Dair, etc.) you should always be looking for an opportunity to end with an Fsmash before the opponent can wiggle out of your numerous low-knockback hits. The worst situation for a Roy player comes when they can't properly end a combo with a strong move, which leaves them with little to show for all the work they just put in. More than anything else, you always have to be trying to end with a strong blow; anything else just leaves the opponent in prime position to hit back hard.

Uairs are great for two purposes: juggling midweights with repeated, annoying strikes; and for combo extending on fastfallers. A well-places Uair is all you need to make that once-impossible link into an Fsmash now possible, thanks to the extra frames you brought by popping the opponent up a few inches. Uair is Roy's fastest and most indispensable combo-continuing tool, and it's one that will put a MU experience-less opponent back on their heels if you can keep the chain of Uair->Smash or Uair SAR->Regrab going on and on and on.

Fair is only marginally less useful, but it still gets good use. The only detractor of Roy's fair is that extra frame or two of landing lag, which really does make a difference in maximizing your combos.

Dair too is useful, for the previously mentioned applications of the Dipper. Trying to get the spike out of dair is a fool's errand with no reward at the end.

Because landing a startup is hard-but incredibly rewarding- you have to make certain that you eke every possible percent from your strings. Just don't forget to finish with a strong move that you know can connect, whether it's Fmash or Ftilt.



Common Disadvantaged States (and how to overcome them)

In my experience, Roy is at his most disadvantaged state against high tier characters when he is in two positions: directly below them and under a platform, and directly above them. [This is discounting the state where you are being relentlessly comboed, which is a tough mental spot to break out of. Landing techs is crucial to regaining your footing and trying to restore a little momentum in situations like these.]

In the first disadvantaged state, Roy is under an opponent who is waiting on a platform, shield raised. Roy's Usmash is a poor move, his Utilt is slow and has weak knockback at platform height, and his SHFFL Uair- while fast- has extremely low knockback, meaning it won't be pushing an opponent off the platform. In a situation like this, you are extremely vulnerable to getting hit by a shield-drop aerial, and there are three main ways to beat the disadvantaged state.


Option 1: Enemy hasn't played against a Roy

If your opponent hasn't a clue about how Roy's aerials work, repeated SHFFL Uairs in rapid succession with good positioning from below will trap them in repeated shield stun that eventually ends with them getting poked time and time again with Uairs until they shift themselves off the platform. Uairs are fast enough that you can spam them in quick succession and change tactics to another option to throw them off. Even if your Uairs aren't doing damage but are keeping your opponent in their shield, they're doing the job of keeping the pressure on.

I personally have seen great success with this method, but as weeks went on, it began to lose effectiveness quickly.

Option 2: Brute Force
You can attempt to brute force shove your opponent off of the platform by hitting them with repeated low Fairs, shoving them with the early active hitboxes and forcing them gradually off the platform. This action is slightly laggier than Option 1, but can get faster results with less hits if you are just trying to get your opponent off the platform as fast as possible.

Option 3
The last option that I've been practicing but haven't seen many results for yet works best on Battlfield. Instant double jump -> Nair is a good two-hit pressure that also puts you on the opponent's level, in prime position to grab them from behind. A bit riskier, for certain, but it can also pay off a lot quicker or set you up with a good throw, rather than a weak aerial from below.


The second situation leaves you in a bad spot because Roy has no non-laggy moves that he can use to contest someone underneath him. Other than stalling for time with a SideB in air, there's not much to do besides drift and throw out a Dair with good timing. Counter isn't a good option in this situation- the timing is too precise to land accurately without luck. Being above an opponent is, without a doubt, Roy's weakest position. His weight and fall speed make him combo fodder, and though it's terrible advice, sometimes the best way to beat an opponent when you are above them is to try and not be in the situation in the first place.

Exarch covers a few of the platform situations from another viewpoint, which are also relevant. Found here.




Personal Thoughts on Character-Specific Matchups

I know one person's experience isn't the infallible fountain of knowledge for MUs, but I'm going to go ahead and briefly contribute to the pool of information very briefly with my own observations. Some relevant matchup info, my guesstimation of the matchup ratio, and some recommended stages.

  • Vs. Fox: Because your most potent combos on spacies are going to mainly start with baits into Dtilt, Fox presents a unique problem because he can just drillshine to break up your crouch. While he can't convert off of the drillshine, it knocks you down anyways, which is tough to face. Beating Fox is an uphill battle that involves baiting him into a punishable aerial or sneaking in for a grab, then converting hard and staying inside his space for as long as possible.

    Fox combos you hard, and can convert easily off of throws while keeping you vulnerable in the air. Even worse for Roy, he can force an approach under the cover of constant SHLasers before making a move of his own. Much of this matchup comes down to who gets the better approaches in neutral, not who can combo harder.

    Good Stages: FD for chaingrabs and uninterrupted Uair Combos, Fountain for side/top blast zones.
    Bad Stages: Dreamland because of size, PS because of low ceiling.
    Matchup Ratio: 65-35 Fox
  • Vs. Falco: If Fox was bad, Falco is far worse. Possessing the ultimate shut-down weapon and insane combos on fastfallers, Falco destroys Roy in almost every aspect of both neutral and punish game. Falco and Shiek, more than any other characters, are why I believe Roy can't function as a solo main in the current meta. Falco can pressure Roy safely from a distance with SHLs before engaging at his leisure, with Roy at a disadvantage.

    Escaping Falco combos isn't easy, and while he won't be keeping you airborne like Fox, that doesn't mean you won't be getting slammed. Approaching is also nearly impossible, leaving you few options other than weaving through lasers and hoping for a long shot grab to get something started and throw off the Falco.

    Good Stages: Battlefield for platform escapes, Yoshis for kill zones and lack of space.
    Bad Stages: FD because it's flat, Dreamland because of size.
    Matchup Ratio: 85-15 Falco
  • Vs. Marth: Though this matchup looks rough on paper, Marth and Roy's inverse tippers make this matchup a great skill matchup that isn't clearly favoring either side. IMO, it's Roy's most fair matchup against the top tiers. Both players will be looking to get inside their own optimal zone, with Marth outspacing Roy and Roy diving in to negate Marth's damage.

    Both characters can combo and kill eachother fairly easily, though Marth does have a bit of a stronger horizontal recovery which gives him a slight edge. Roy/Marth games are always great to watch, as the two playstyles are extremely complementary. The so called "Marth percent" afflicts both characters equally in this MU.

    Good Stages: Largely personal preference, both characters kill the same. Smaller is better in general.
    Bad Stages: Dreamland for size, possibly FD for combo potential.
    Matchup Ratio: 55-45 Marth
  • Vs. Shiek: An almost unwinnable matchup when chaingrabs and reaction techchases come into play. However, if you are careful about navigating near Shiek, you can bait out grabs and punish with a Dtilt and start a quick combo. Shiek dies fairly quickly to Roy, and while she does get some good mileage from CC Dsmash, Roy too can make good usage of his own CC Dtilt.

    Shiek happens to occupy a specific weight and fallspeed that is very conductive to Roy's Uair combos. Keep on the pressure and play carefully around grabs, and this MU isn't quite as unwinnable as it looks at first glance.

    Good Stages: Battlefield for platforms, Yoshis for quick kills.
    Bad Stages: Dreamland, for the same reasons.
    Matchup Ratio: 70-30 Shiek
  • Vs. C. Falcon: Falcon converts huge on grabs and can combo Roy for days, but Roy can also get his own hits back in this matchup. Well spaces aerials can put a halt to Falcon's airborne approaches, but be warned: missed spacing will have you trading with a knee. Largely a skill matchup, Captain Falcon holds a bit of an advantage due to his gratuitous survivability and speedy combo game that can overpower a sloppy defense with ease.

    Good Stages: FD for favorable combos, PS for platform layout and side blast zones.
    Bad Stages: Dreamland- I think you get the point. Also Yoshis.
    Matchup Ratio: 65-35 Falcon
  • Vs. Jigglypuff: Playing this matchup like Marth with a twist is the key to beating a cautious Puff player. Though Roy's tools are weaker than Marth's at the spacing game, he's still got the tools to work with. Carefully outspacing Puff and looking for an opportunity to throw out a Fsmash and seal the stock is your best bet for winning against Puff.

    Roy also has the OHKO trump card that can be pulled out at any point in the neutral- it's very hard to punish, and can often come as a surprise to an unsuspecting enemy. DC Down Smash also works for surprise kills.

    Good Stages: Yoshis, FoD for kill zones.
    Matchup Ratio: 55-45 Puff
  • Vs. Peach: Peach can CC you into oblivion and combos you like an inert rock. Turnips can force you to approach and keep Roy at bay simultaneously, making this an extremely hard MU to win. Honestly, I recommend switching to a different character to handle this one- there are just some common meta MUs that Roy can't handle.

    Good Stages: Battlefield for space to work, PS for platform layout to minimize CC Dsmash space.
    Matchup Ratio: 80-20 Peach
  • Vs. Ganon: Ganon's fair beats most of your aerial options, and his ground game is punishing against Roy's weight and fall speed. Approaching is tough, and combos won't get much mileage until later percents- Ganon can just shrug off Uair SARs at low percent and continue to batter you at close range. Honestly, after many weeks, I consider this to be the hardest mid-tier MU for Roy to win.

    Matchup Ratio: 60-40 Ganon
  • Vs. Mario: Mario gets outranged and outran by Roy, and his damage is relegated to close quarters, where Roy shines. Though you can't combo Mario hard, you can kill fairly early; much of this MU will revolve around your patience as a player and judgement when it comes to pressuring and approaching in due time.

    Matchup Ratio: 60-40 Roy
  • Vs. Young Link: Young Link just happens to be one of the few characters who not only falters to Roy in ground speed, but also loses or trades with his sword's sweetspot on the ground. This makes close range combat extremely easy and favorable for Roy in the MU- the only issue is approaching the YL. A good YL player will stay behind a wall of projectiles, only approaching when a hit is secured. You'll have to work for the approaches, but win hard in close quarters.

    Matchup Ratio: 50-50 Even
  • Vs. Pichu: You beat Pichu in range, power, and speed in most cases. Even better, your aerials beat out Pichu's or at least trade favorably. Combos are fairly easy to start, and Fsmash kills ridiculously early. Fully charged NeutralB beats Pichu's fully charged SideB, just FYI.

    Matchup Ratio: 70-30 Roy
  • Vs. Blue Goggles White D-Pad Pichu: Invincible Nairs can't beat a fully charged NeutralB. Go out with a bang.

----------------------
I know this is a huge post, but I've really been meaning to put out all my thoughts on Roy's current position and playability in the meta as of late. I believe that while Roy may not develop any new tricks that make him better as a character, the players that play him either as a main or secondary will become good enough to start doing well at the local level. Roy may never win a major or place well in big tournaments, but the possibility of a Taj for Roys is never out of the question.

Thoughts, critiques on anything I've posted- I'd like to hear them all. I know I have no name around the Roy boards, but I've played him plenty enough to get what I believe is an informed feel for the character, at least for my own playstyle.

If anyone happens to get on a stream at a local or has netplay matches, HMU. I'll add it to the post for a collection of modern footage so that new players interested in Roy can at least have something from the modern era of Melee to watch and study, rather than going over ancient VODs looking for scraps of information.

If you read all the way, thanks for reading. If not, tl;dr: Roy's a niche counterpick, and I don't think he can make it as a solo main in anything past the local level.
 
Last edited:

BloodL10N

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BloodL10N
I agree with your tl;dr.
However I don't agree with the MU with Mario, Mario's Bair can essentially out range the majority of Roy's moves not even counting the use of fireballs (I play with Mario/Doc extensively).
But like you say the majority of things with MU is personal opinion.

As a person who plays with Roy pretty heavily (not so much now since he hurts my hands) I feel every MU has a possibility of being won. I can win against two Marth main's with Roy, one being the best Marth player north of Atlanta in GA, and the other (who is better than anyone I've met at a tournament but never goes). So it's possible. In my experience.

IMO all things are a mental game, same with Chess, getting someone to give-up when they're in the winning position is a big deal.
I consider Roy viable only if you truly play the mental game, for instance a well timed F-smash will beat out all the tech in the world.

There's so much focus on better character's when people forget that you can literally die at any second from a well timed smash--minus SDI/DI/Phantoms. Yeah you can shut someone down with Fox's wavedash shines and gimps, but it takes a lot of the fun away from the neutral. I want to destroy someone's perception of reality and all of their hard work by showing them that they're nothing special.

So rather if you really enjoy mind games Roy is the guy for you, but if you play against the Fox player listed above, you're going to lose until you get an opening or s/he messes up.

tl;dr
I like Roy a lot, but IMO you have to play the mind game.

EDIT: And Yes I'm talking about Melee Roy, I don't have him listed as a Melee main because of the above hand pain issues when playing with him. I have more APM with Roy than any other character. This includes wavedash shine cancels, pillars and all.
 
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