2015 Community Tier List Results

Fortress | Sveet

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Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,260
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Northern IL
#1
2015 Community Panel Tier List

SS: :foxmelee:
S: :falcomelee: :marthmelee: :sheikmelee:
A: :jigglypuffmelee: :peachmelee: :falconmelee: :icsmelee:
B: :samusmelee: :pikachumelee:
C: :luigimelee: :yoshimelee: :drmario: :ganondorfmelee:
D: :mariomelee: :younglinkmelee: :linkmelee: :dkmelee:
E: :gawmelee: :roymelee: :mewtwomelee: :zeldamelee:
F: :pichumelee: :nessmelee: :bowsermelee: :kirbymelee:

In order to increase the sample size to a reasonable amount, the original criteria of top 200 smashboards was increased to top 1000. Exceptions were also made in the case of certain known players. In the end, this provided us with 60 votes.

Panel Voters: -Sinister-, $mike, AP Renekton, Askeflink, AustinRC, Bench, BHawksFan01, blazerer, bolt., CaptainZack, cemo, ChivalRuse, Clue, Coastward, Cob, CocoThunder, Ddwar, DerfMidWest, EddyBearr, edgeluca, Equal, Falco Lamborghini, Genghis_Connor, Kaffei, Krisp!, Kyari, Laudandus, LSDX, Max?, Metà, NotKain, Onisser, Parzival, pdub, PetteH, PK Fang, RiK 22, roboticphish, s2j, Sharpman767, Sickolas, SillyGoose, SleepyK, slypig, Sveet, Swegolas, Tafokints, TheCrimsonBlur, tm, Upke, Viperboy_74, Xiivi, x WaNtEd x, Ya Boy GP, yamham63, Yeroc, zduck, Zerix, Zonak, Zorgo





Mean - the average vote for that character
Variance (σ^2) - the spread of the votes
Difference (Average) - the difference between the mean of that character and the character above it.
Combined Variance - the sum of the variance of that character and the character above it.
P(Lower > Higher) - the probability that the character voted lower should actually be higher.

SS: :foxmelee:
S: :falcomelee: :marthmelee: :sheikmelee:
A: :jigglypuffmelee: :peachmelee: :falconmelee: :icsmelee:
B: :pikachumelee: :samusmelee:
C: :luigimelee: :yoshimelee: :drmario: :ganondorfmelee:
D: :mariomelee: :younglinkmelee: :linkmelee: :dkmelee:
E: :gawmelee: :roymelee: :mewtwomelee: :nessmelee: :zeldamelee:
F: :pichumelee: :bowsermelee: :kirbymelee:

 

the muted smasher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
409
#2
Roy is to high, ics should B tier.

Ha I might still have influence, that's non sense xD

Otherwise I think it's really solid, there are small debates like the order of marth,sheik and puff.
 
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1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
808
#6
Can someone explain to me how differences in average placement provide insight into viability?

Very few submitters actually put Fox in his own tier yet this tier list assumes they have. What info is this tier list trying to get across?
 

CptJPuff

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
313
#7
Generally curious, but why was Yoshi placed so high? Isn't the only person really pushing him amsa? Are people placing him so high because they don't know the matchup against him? Or is he actually a "decent" character?
 

pdub

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
3
Location
Glen Ellyn, IL
#8
Can someone explain to me how differences in average placement provide insight into viability?

Very few submitters actually put Fox in his own tier yet this tier list assumes they have. What info is this tier list trying to get across?
The tier separations weren't put in by any submitters. The submitters simply ranked every character 1 through 26. The tier separations are a little arbitrary, but if you look at the average rank of each character, you see that they are in places where there was a larger than usual gap between the characters' rankings. I also don't think that any of the tier separations are meant to draw a line between viable and non-viable.
 

1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
808
#9
The tier separations weren't put in by any submitters. The submitters simply ranked every character 1 through 26. The tier separations are a little arbitrary, but if you look at the average rank of each character, you see that they are in places where there was a larger than usual gap between the characters' rankings. I also don't think that any of the tier separations are meant to draw a line between viable and non-viable.
Plenty of the submissions in the original thread included tier divisions

The issue is that the only information collected were the raw rankings. The divisions are basically fabricated from those arbitrary differences in averaging that you speak of.

A tier list is wholly intended to imply differences in viability by GROUPING characters into tiers of relative strength.

So what sveet has done, essentially, is assume that since most people agreed Fox is #1, he must also be in his own tier. Math should not dictate that decision.
 

tsm2k420XX

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
35
Location
DFW
#10
Why is pichu so low, he has good recovery and mobility, and up smash and nair are great. He's light, hurts himself occasionally, but is still more viable than Roy imo. Doc being ahead of Yoshi and Luigi? In 2015? Abate got top 8 at big house. Shroomed got top 8 at the summit, and dreamhack too? Dang, he's really pushing the doc meta- oh wait. Ganon has more representation than doc now, and doc doesn't have the results to be higher than Luigi.
 

jigglesthepuff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
181
#14
Correct me on this, but why is :kirbymelee: last place again? Why is :bowsermelee: above him? Why is :roymelee: so high? Why is :pichumelee: 3rd from last? This list is just weird.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
3,843
Location
Earth
#15
but why is :kirbymelee: last place again?
Because he is (if not, close to) the worst character in the game.
Why is :bowsermelee: above him?
Up-B OoS
Why is :roymelee: so high?
Because he has top tier movement, but I still think he should be a bit lower because his hitstun and KB is HORRIBLE.
Why is :pichumelee: 3rd from last?
Because people don't realize he's one of the fastest characters in the game and said "oh, he hurts himself. He must be horrible" without looking at how he actually has decent movement and can still do some comboing on FFers.

EDIT: I would move Yoshi down a few spots, bring Pichu above Roy, switch Pika and Samus, and possibly switch Doc and Luigi (not sure about that one), but other than that, I think it's a decent list.
 
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jigglesthepuff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
181
#16
1. Kirby is one of the worst, but not the worst. He still has multiple jumps and back air.
2. oh yea i forgot about that
3. Roy does have a good SHFFL and some other things that Marth has, but he's just so bad in other aspects that he's just terrible.
4. This is so true. Pichu's mobility is amazing and his off stage game is superb. Up Smash hurts like a b****. There's alot of potential in him.
 

Archelon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
392
Location
Ontario, Canada
#17
Generally curious, but why was Yoshi placed so high? Isn't the only person really pushing him amsa? Are people placing him so high because they don't know the matchup against him? Or is he actually a "decent" character?
I personnally don't think he should be so high, and that he is only so high do to a lack of matchup knowledge, but that's me opinion.
 

MurphyPrime

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
238
#19
Who would be better than Yoshi aside from Luigi and maybe Ganon? At that point in the tier list they basically are going off of tourney placings. Same with why Doc is where he is. There isn't enough research/experimenting into the character to prove they suck or are awesome. I think we have yet to see the limit of Yoshi's potential in high level play, so I'm fine with him being where he is (aside from maybe bumping Weegee over him). But beyond Samus, it's very debatable who goes where. Cause not many play and/or preform well with these characters.

I think not knowing the match up isn't entirely why he is doing well right now. Yoshi has some cool tools. Certainly more experience would help opponents handle the match up, but at the same time more optimization with Yoshi would help Yoshi mains.
 

Archelon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
392
Location
Ontario, Canada
#20
Who would be better than Yoshi aside from Luigi and maybe Ganon? At that point in the tier list they basically are going off of tourney placings. Same with why Doc is where he is. There isn't enough research/experimenting into the character to prove they suck or are awesome. I think we have yet to see the limit of Yoshi's potential in high level play, so I'm fine with him being where he is (aside from maybe bumping Weegee over him). But beyond Samus, it's very debatable who goes where. Cause not many play and/or preform well with these characters.

I think not knowing the match up isn't entirely why he is doing well right now. Yoshi has some cool tools. Certainly more experience would help opponents handle the match up, but at the same time more optimization with Yoshi would help Yoshi mains.
I think Luigi has a strong neutral game and powerful punish game vs fastfallers.
 

jazaniac

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
21
#23
Generally curious, but why was Yoshi placed so high? Isn't the only person really pushing him amsa? Are people placing him so high because they don't know the matchup against him? Or is he actually a "decent" character?
I know I'm super late, but that argument can be made for Pikachu and Jiggs (to an extent) too. It doesn't mean that the tier list is wrong, just that when working with mid tiers you have to keep an open mind.
 
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