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2012 King Dedede Matchup Export #1 - Diddy Kong
- Thread starter KuroganeHammer
- Start date
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I honestly don't think this MU could be considered only a -1. D3's game onstage is heavily ground-based, and Diddy's stage control is simply too strong for this to be anything but a solidly uphill battle for us. Even when we land the one strong thing that makes and breaks a lot of MUs for us, a grab, we're not even guaranteed good results or even an advantageous position for that matter. We can be punished for trying to CG.this could be considered -1.
When it comes to stages, how much does platforms affect us in this MU?
i.e. Stages like Battlefield and Lylat.
i.e. Stages like Battlefield and Lylat.
allshort17
Smash Ace
Bananas on platforms can mess up your CG because they still trip you. It can make it harder use to approach since he can camp under platforms. We also can't really camp under platforms either because if we are jumping around, we will have to land on the platform or around it. It's pretty easy for him to control where we land and punish it. I personally do not like them that much. Anybody want to tell me why platforms are good?When it comes to stages, how much does platforms affect us in this MU?
i.e. Stages like Battlefield and Lylat.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
They're not. Because of this, I try to avoid stages with platforms bunched together, like they are on BF. Lylat, Brinstar, even Delfino irk me with the platforms. I'd rather be on Poke Stadium where the platforms (during the neutral transformation) are spaced out and easy to run between. IMO, the only good thing about platforms in this MU is that D3 can just jump up and grab the bananas, but Diddy can easily prevent this by camping under the platform where he threw a banana.
It's possible for us to cover most of Diddy's grounded options ... even though they're stronger than ours. The only part where Diddy REALLY beats DDDs ground game is in close range but he still risks getting grabbed there.
Waddle Dee blocks off bananas
Side-B can be countered by roll back -> grab
These are 2 of 4 burst option Diddy has [DA and fair are the others] and they can be covered as well. It's still a guessing game for us which option is the best but chances to win the RPS game aren't that stacked against us. It becomes more problematic when Diddy has a solid lead [and even then he can't kill us easily]. The reward for getting a CG or a string of offstage bair ONCE can make up for what Diddy can do with a banana string or some lame side-B follow-up. It just requires a LOT of patience and good ground control.
On that note, I think Diddy's Dtilt is the worst thing ever in this game. Such a stupid, stupid move. It's one of the very few things that makes me hate this game at times and I wish that move wouldn't exist. Just because of that move I can only recommend avoiding the close range battle. Only go in there if you have a banana to reset the situation or get a grab.
DDD can only truly compete with Diddy at close-range... by default Diddy is at an advantage at virtually every range except directly in DDD's grab range where DDD can mix-up with suitable risk-reward.
Waddles are situational and Side-B doesn't lose to any of DDD's ground options on reaction, which is a significant part of what it's so good (because doing anything OoS ta mid-range loses to banana toss and doing nothing loses to Side-B).
The big three are Side-B (loses to preemptive action), banana toss (doesn't directly lose to anything other than re-toss at close range), and Fair (loses to preemptive action and puts Diddy at a poor position if the DDD doesn't try to grab it). The problem is that Diddy has the better pressure tools, and that DDD doesn't have any solid defensive options (with defense in this case being defined as reducing or escaping pressure). Other characters who have Diddy problems (e.g. G&W) at least have these defensive options (and mid-range banana follow-ups...), but God help you if the Diddy catches you shielding at mid-range.
On that note, I think Diddy's Dtilt is the worst thing ever in this game. Such a stupid, stupid move. It's one of the very few things that makes me hate this game at times and I wish that move wouldn't exist. Just because of that move I can only recommend avoiding the close range battle. Only go in there if you have a banana to reset the situation or get a grab.
All of Diddy's tilts are annoying as Hell if they're used properly. If Ftilt can be spaced safely (see: Don't be in mid-range), it's safe. If Utilt is right in your face -- especially at kill %, it's very intimidating and awkward to punish (not to mention that Diddy can Utilt>spot dodge).
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Umm, I'm not too knowledgeable on Diddy's dtilt. I know it makes him clap near the ground, but how is the move good (or bad)?
4GOD (JJV)
Smash Apprentice
Me vs Player-1 this Saturday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_iy2fGdwGQ
Me vs BigLou this Saturday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6NHmKt3_cY
I'll get BigLou next time
Me vs BigLou this Saturday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6NHmKt3_cY
I'll get BigLou next time
bubbaking
Smash Hero
So, uh, dtilt question again. What does the move do exactly?
allshort17
Smash Ace
Diddy's? It's so fast that it just interrupts everything we have from bad spacing to a bad jump in. It just stops us in our tracks if we get too close to him when running in. He can combo us into more Dtilts at low percents, followed by some smash or dash attack. It as sends us at a low angle that pretty much puts us a mid-range and outside of our grab range at higher percents, and that's Diddy's best range. It knocks away waddle dees and it safe enough where we can't really punish it if spaced we'll enough. Pretty much, it's his get out of jail free card.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I'm guessing the move ends too quickly to punish with ftilt... Can our dtilt beat it in terms of priority?
Kite0692
Smash Journeyman
I think in this matchup is actually a good choice to grab release Diddy on the ledge then use bair offstage.
Battlefield sucks in this Matchup. The bananas on the platform are annoying, plus he can combo you ala marvel vs capcom. Strike/Ban it.
Battlefield sucks in this Matchup. The bananas on the platform are annoying, plus he can combo you ala marvel vs capcom. Strike/Ban it.
TKD
Smash Lord
in case no one's mentioned it, weak toss (block+A) is much better than tapping forward+A or c-stick. it comes out quicker and has less cooldown.
Completely agreed with this. FD actually works for DDD cuz he lives forever and his defensive set-up [waddle dee + banana in hand] works without platforms ... whereas the BF platforms just mess you up whenever a banana lies on it and you just can't meneuver around it ;_;
bubbaking
Smash Hero
bubbaking
Smash Hero
There isn't 'smash throwing'?
Smash throwing is using the C-Stick (while set to Smash) to throw or tap+throwing. TKD was saying not to use that, as it's inferior to the his regular toss.
No idea where you're getting that from.There's a difference between tossing an item and tossing an item while dashing. He's saying the former is much better without dashing.
allshort17
Smash Ace
There's a difference between tossing an item and tossing an item while dashing. He's saying the former is much better without dashing.
Well, there is a difference in dashing toss vs standing. Although I do not believe that's what TKD had in mind.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
So what exactly was being said about standing, dashing, and smash tosses?