2011 London Riots

[Pluvia]

The hell you're sending them over to Australia again

No way, we're not that cruel.

 

[Sucumbio]

Anything you hear about the shooting is just pure rumours so far. The police that roam the streets don't carry guns, but obviously we do have an armed police response unit.

The public don't want the police to carry guns and the police don't want the police to carry guns, so they don't. And seemingly chavs go out and start rioting when the police shoot people.

And if anyone tells you the riotings are to do with the economy tell them to put their trousers back on and to stop talking out of their arse. The government haven't done anything recently to cause riots (in fact Cameron was on holiday when the riots broke out), and I even think youth unemployment has gone down a bit in this last few months. Notice how it's just a few teenagers rioting, there no adults to be seen, and it's only a couple hundred people out of the millions that live in London.

OK that makes sense. I thought it seemed a little over the top considering, but as has been said the media over here in the states has basically painted it like London's falling apart, but I guess now the riots are over, which is good. There was one particular incident that kinda made me cringe though, some old guy getting killed as he was trying to put out a looter's fire or something...

so basically it was just a bunch of young kids with nothing better to do...

 

[Teran]

so basically it was just a bunch of young kids with nothing better to do...

I like how people say that completely dismissively, you know, without actually realising how strong a point that actually is.

They don't have anything better to do.

Think about that for a moment, and if you just write them all of as lazy idiots then you're basically part of the reason the riots actually happened in the first place.

 

[Sucumbio]

Well that's a good point you make... why is it that they are so bored and unchallenged that the rush of discordance should be so tempting? I mean... I guess we've all done something a little dangerous... but to this degree... it reminds me of the gangs in A Clockwork Orange... violent for the sake of being violent, because you need to FEEL. Or a cutter, who needs the pain of the blade to feel.. something. To feel alive. Maybe they need more Smash :D

 

[Pluvia]

Actually anyone who says they have nothing to do, in London, is talking out of their arse.

Those kids could live where I live, where our options are much more limited. I don't know how much miles you have to travel in London to get an education after school but I'm sure it's less than 20 miles, and that it's not limited to 30 people a class a year. I'm pretty sure you don't have to travel 110 miles to go to a cinema, or fast food resturant, or shopping center, or well anything than from 3 supermarkets and 1 clothes shop.

Want to be bored? Try living here. Those London kids were talking absolute rubbish.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So I've been on holiday for the past few days (I left the day before the riots started) so I'm a bit out of the loop, only caught bits and pieces during the evening the day before I left

Why exactly were people rioting again? Did things just escalate after that peaceful protest? Was it simply 'for the sake of it'?

I dunno, it didn't spread up to my nearest city (although a man was fatally shot in a notorious part of the city around about the same time but I don't think it was related to the riots)

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

teran, you're either a complete cretin or you live in a lovely leafy suburb that is miles away from anything that actually happens in REAL london. the riots actually got quite scary at times, but then i live in edmonton, and when the riots happened i found myself stuck in stoke newington as public transport was shut down... fun.

i don't really care if people call me racist for this, because it is the truth, the cause of the riot was black people reacting to a black man being shot. it is instantly turned into a race thing, the fact that the guy was a gun-dealer and supposedly shot at the police was completely overlooked. then ******** people decide to join in because they want free stuff. it was nothing massive, not something that could change anything (other than perhaps using this as an excuse for the government to further limit our freedom. see: http://gigaom.com/2011/08/11/blaming-the-tools-britain-proposes-a-social-media-ban/ )

something else that is quite interesting about this is the timing, it seems to have served as a perfect distraction from the phonehacking scandal that caused so much hate for the media and rupert murdoch. i get the feeling that they filled our screens and papers with this as much they could and for as long as they could. as well as this, it's around a year until the olympics will be held in london as mic said. i'm encouraged by the strength showed by the police, and how quickly they responded to this. i have nothing but respect for cops, they take so much **** for what they do. they had to stand there and take it, because if they had reshaped a rioter's face with a truncheon this whole thing could have escalated wildly out of control.

 

[Teran]

Actually anyone who says they have nothing to do, in London, is talking out of their arse.

Actually if you're poor and live in the estates, you kinda don't have any good options at all. Making it out is hard when even if you try you always have the stigma of the estates attached, but whatever.

Also, I totally DO live in a nice area Dr. Strangelove! Still, I get around a lot, you'd be surprised. :3

 

[Vinylic.]

So, I'll be looking foward on what happens next.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

Actually if you're poor and live in the estates, you kinda don't have any good options at all. Making it out is hard when even if you try you always have the stigma of the estates attached, but whatever.

Also, I totally DO live in a nice area Dr. Strangelove! Still, I get around a lot, you'd be surprised. :3

what? how does living in an estate affect what you can or cannot do with your time? there is SO much to do in this city, boredom is absolutely no excuse for civil unrest.

 

[Teran]

what? how does living in an estate affect what you can or cannot do with your time? there is SO much to do in this city, boredom is absolutely no excuse for civil unrest.

First of all it does affect what you can do because

There aren't really any decent or convenient free sports facilities, there aren't really any good free leisure facilities, libraries are constantly being shut down so if someone wants to read maybe possibly they can't pick up any books for free.

You know the only thing there really is to do is get drunk, and of course, there are plenty of clubs and pubs and off licences for that.

Also, being working class affects getting a good job because the English middle class display a large amount of prejudice towards those from lower socio-economic groups.

Nothing in this country is overt, but think of it this way, if the country's system were doing a good job, we wouldn't have benefit leeching, violent, constantly drunk, drug dealing etc etc chav teenagers. It's funny, I'm always offending people with generalisations and such things which I do for fun, but then it comes to the real deal and all the people who would usually get offended are the ones letting it out on the teenage rioters. You can't place the sole blame on them, because if you think people are simply born like that then you might as well jump out a ****ing window because your existence would be a disgrace to this already ******** race.

 

[Pluvia]

He's making the point that there's tons to do in London and people that say they were rioting because there's "nothing to do" are talking out their arse.

They live in London. No matter how you try to shape it there's plenty to do. Heck you could even get an education easily if you wanted.

 

[Teran]

They live in London. No matter how you try to shape it there's plenty to do.

If you have money. I'm the one who lives here, I would know.

Heck you could even get an education easily if you wanted.

Loooool @ easy education Again, if you're not poor then yes.

 

[Pluvia]

I'm not sure how it works down there since they stopped paying you to go to school but I'm pretty sure they never stripped your free college education.

Plus people complain about uni fee's yet the people rioting there clearly don't have the grades to get into uni.

 

[Sucumbio]

Want to be bored? Try living here. Those London kids were talking absolute rubbish.

Where do you live??? My dad is from Halifax and we spent some time there and in visiting his late mother in Mytholmroyd. Spent a bit of time in York, also. *shiver* pork pies are naaaasty. haha!

@therestofthis: I almost regret reducing this to "nothing better to do" but that is what I took from your explanations. Since there was no obvious political motivation for the rioting, etc. But I agree, London is full of stuff to do, but I was a tourist, albeit with an edge of being with an Englishman. I grew up in Boston, and I can attest that having no money = loitering in parking garages or the subway, causing mischief, etc. It wasn't until years later in college and with a bank account full of "college funds" that I was able to truly enjoy what the city had to offer.

 

[Teran]

I'm not sure how it works down there since they stopped paying you to go to school but I'm pretty sure they never stripped your free college education.

That education is so godawful that if I were in that system I'd probably fail.

Actually that's a lie, I'd probably end up with Bs and Cs, but then with my parents that's considered failing so... :x

Plus people complain about uni fee's yet the people rioting there clearly don't have the grades to get into uni.

Well there were uni students there too you know, but they did their share of business when they stormed the conservative HQ back whenever.

Thing is though, if uni students rioted for days about the fees going up, would you empathise with them in any way or would you just slam them along with the government and media like you are now with these rioters?

 

[Pluvia]

The systems still there. Plus there's other charities and organisations that help people to succeed.

And the uni students protested last year and only attacked a Lib Dem building after the LD's had straight up promised no rise in tuition fee's, but then decided to triple them once they got into power. That's understandable. Burning down and looting private businesses that have nothing to do with the government for no reason isn't.

So yes if students did that then I'd be slamming them just as much as these rioters.

 

[X1-12]

And if anyone tells you the riotings are to do with the economy tell them to put their trousers back on and to stop talking out of their arse. The government haven't done anything recently to cause riots (in fact Cameron was on holiday when the riots broke out), and I even think youth unemployment has gone down a bit in this last few months. Notice how it's just a few teenagers rioting, there no adults to be seen, and it's only a couple hundred people out of the millions that live in London.

Do you really think the economic situation of those involved had nothing to do with the rioting? Do you think if everyone in the areas where rioting ocurred was loaded they would still riot? The riots happened because people saw an opportunity to - You're poor and have ****ty life chances and you see an opportunity to stick it to the man (and nab a new telly while you're at it) you think they won't say yes? Especially when during the initial response to the riots, the police tried to respond as though it were a protest (i.e: by standing and watching) You see your mate break into a shop and get away with it, why wouldn't you?

because if you think people are simply born like that then you might as well jump out a ****ing window because your existence would be a disgrace to this already ******** race.

Teran has it 100% right here.

I also think Pluvia you're being kinda naive if you think that its easy to get a good education in central London. Why do you think there's such an enormous correlation between wealth and educational achievement? Because poor people are stupid? I don't think so

 

[Teran]

Actually they did storm conservative HQ.

Also X1-12 is right when he says you're being naive, poor people getting a good education is very difficult without getting a scholarship or getting into a selective grammar school, which they're not going to do thanks to public education because that's ****ing awful. They need private tuition, which they won't be able to pay for most of the time, or a lot of the time the parents may have the money but won't give enough of a **** about their kids to push them.

Honestly people like nothing more than to take an opportunity, but the reality is being on the lower rungs of society means you have to desperately claw and jump through impossible hurdles just to get what the average middle class kid gets handed to them.

It's not easy to make it to the top, especially when people who are at the top are trying to keep you down. Yes, the wealthy do try to make things worse for the poor, because it helps them get richer.

 

[Vinylic.]

London Riots is lowering down an inch.

 

[Pluvia]

I was supposed to reply to this like 2 days ago but it's taken me a while because I don't see your point. Being poor means you can be a horrible person and destroy other peoples livelyhoods? What?

Or is it you have to work to get an education, therefore there's no point trying?

And there's no point preaching to me about how hard the poor kids have it. Like how people mention it costs 9 grand to get a uni degree in some places now, yet they always fail to mention you have to make over 21 grand a year before you start paying it back. My mum has a degree and a job, and I have a job, yet that's more than our entire household income.

There are people worse off than me too, but you don't see all us looting and burning down buildings unrelated to the government, because we're not horrible people who spend our time expecting society to hand us everything, or spend our time *****ing about how hard life is so there's no point trying because there's people born richer than us.

 

[Teran]

I was supposed to reply to this like 2 days ago but it's taken me a while because I don't see your point. Being poor means you can be a horrible person and destroy other peoples livelyhoods? What?

You do realise that's what the conservative government did to like the entirety of working Britain under Thatcher? It's their MO and they're doing it again. You do realise the rich constantly ruin the livelihoods of the not so affluent and get away with it, right? The thing is, I'm not saying everyone in the group of rioters was justified in going out and smashing things, but rioting of this magnitude does't just happen for absolutely no reason, that's actually far more an absurd notion than civil unrest, which you know, makes sense.

Or is it you have to work to get an education, therefore there's no point trying?

There are kids that will beat others up just for being attentive in class, or say the parents may force them into doing all kinds of bad **** instead of going to school. These are just a couple examples, but the situation isn't just as easy as "they're lazy". That is literally what elitist rich people say about everyone in the world that is poor, and pretty much why they just sit back and watch countries starve with a clear conscience. The funny thing is, you always complain about the elitist rich folk, but your scoffing mentality is pretty much the same.

And there's no point preaching to me about how hard the poor kids have it. Like how people mention it costs 9 grand to get a uni degree in some places now, yet they always fail to mention you have to make over 21 grand a year before you start paying it back. My mum has a degree and a job, and I have a job, yet that's more than our entire household income.

You do realise 21k a year in London is peanuts right? We collect like 24k a year on rent and that's basically just a padding to income. It's not that herpderp I'm rich or something, it's that living in London actually breaks your balls with expenses. It's not really comparable to where you live, London is in like the top 3 most expensive cities in the world.

There are people worse off than me too, but you don't see all us looting and burning down buildings unrelated to the government, because we're not horrible people who spend our time expecting society to hand us everything, or spend our time *****ing about how hard life is so there's no point trying because there's people born richer than us.

You haven't got it anywhere near as bad as London's underprivileged, it's not just about money.

 

[Pluvia]

Way to counter nothing I said.

To summarise your post, England elected the Tories (in 30 years they've only managed to get 1 seat in my entire country so no point preaching about how bad they are to me), even though they're notorious for being terrible.

Having a hard life means it's a-ok to not try to make it better by getting an education.

London is expensive and hard to live in.

And somehow, this makes it ok to loot and burn things completely unrelated to the government.

You can try and blame the government all you want but that doesn't explain why they never targetted the government. It's begining to look like opportunistic looting and vandalism for no reason eh.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

Teran how do you even live in London, I never heard of you working.

 

[Sucumbio]

Fried Ice Cream is pretty good, especially if you roll the ice cream in honey nut corn flakes first.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

I agree on the honey corn flakes, but bread crumbs can be just as delicious. Especially if you coat them in honey as well.

 

[Teran]

Way to counter nothing I said.

To summarise your post, England elected the Tories (in 30 years they've only managed to get 1 seat in my entire country so no point preaching about how bad they are to me), even though they're notorious for being terrible.

London is in England which means your scottish heroin loving arse doesn't have much of a worthwhile opinion on our matters.

Having a hard life means it's a-ok to not try to make it better by getting an education.

I never insinuated that, but it isn't that easy to just get a decent education.

London is expensive and hard to live in.

Very much so.

And somehow, this makes it ok to loot and burn things completely unrelated to the government.

Right because that's what every rioter was doing. Riots are an opportunity for criminals to do things like this, but if you look at the initial rioting, stuff like this didn't happen. Nice way to just lump everyone into one broad group.

You can try and blame the government all you want but that doesn't explain why they never targetted the government.

Well apparently the riots started after the police beat up a woman during protests.

It's begining to look like opportunistic looting and vandalism for no reason eh.

That's true, but that's not indicative of everyone, and basically that's the only side the government and press are showing because they're rolling their propganda mill. Honestly I don't actually care about the poor being oppressed, but I just find it funny how easily people are swayed by government bull****. So often I think the government are stupid for being so implausible, but then I realise that people are so ****ing stupid that they buy **** like this. This is why I have no sympathy for people who struggle financially, because when the government are ****ting down your throats, you just kinda let if happen.