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2010 Official NTSC Tier List : Votes

Slhoka

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
1,710
Location
Kourou, French Guiana
Please provide us with your votes for the NTSC tier list in this thread.

For archival purposes, here is the PM sent to every MBR Member :
Hi,

as you probably know, the Melee Back Room released a tier list a bit more than a month ago. However, the making of this tier list proved not to be satisfactory : it was made public even though it was not given all the reflection needed. For this reason, a majority of the MBR strongly disagreed with it.

Therefore, the need to release a new, actual, MBR-endorsed 2010 tier list became obvious. That's where you, as a member of the MBR, can help

How are we going to create this list ?

The MBR made quite a few attempts to create a tier list in the last two years with no success. The main problem was that we tried to create one through a debate. This required a significant effort by all MBR members, as a few of them were willing to post huge messages about a certain matchup, making the debate very slow, hard to follow, and unproductive.
That's the reason why we are willing to use a new system for this project : according to a suggestion made by Marc, we are going to use the same system we used for the PAL tier list, released in March 2010. I encourage you to read more about it on the PAL tier list thread and also this one, but basically, we will proceed as follows :
  1. Every backroom member willing to participate submits his own tier list
  2. If we don't have a satisfactory amount of votes, we ask some selected non-MBR members to provide us with their tier list.
  3. We gather all the votes and create an aggregated list.
  4. If required, we discuss the problematic spots in the ranking.
  5. We make it public =)

So if everything goes right, the only thing you have to give is your own list.

You are not forced to vote.
It is not a condition of your MBR membership. The MBR is also made of people who are, for instance, valuable because of their TO skills or because they are smashboards' staff, not necessarily because of their game knowledge. If you feel you don't know enough to vote that's fine, just say it.

For those who are willing to take part in this tier list project here is the list of characters :
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Dr. Mario
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Link
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Mewtwo
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Peach
Pichu
Pikachu
Roy
Samus
Sheik
Yoshi
Young Link
Zelda

Please provide us a list ordered from the best to the worst according to you. Keep in mind that it is not necessary to give your point of view about tier separations. It can be interesting for statistical purposes, but you don't have to do it. You also don't have to break all the ties : if you really can't separate two characters, just indicate them as even. Just avoid doing that if you can.

In order to submit your vote, please post it in this thread. Looking at the other member's lists is neither mandatory nor forbidden : the important thing is to provide us with the best list you can do.

Because making a tier list isn't that time consuming, I'm setting the deadline for sending back your vote on November 14, 2010. That gives us a bit more than 2 weeks and should be enough. If for some reason you cannot do this before the 14th please send me a PM and we will see if we can find another way.

Well that's it, the ball is in your court ;)

Thank you in advance for your help.

Slhoka
 

Aldwyn McCloud

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
808
Location
My home (in Italy :D)
I haven't understood exactly what the logic behind a good tier list should be, however I will post two different lists. The first one is about recent tournament results, and more related to facts. The second one instead is more related to theory and the way I see certain characters/match ups. Feel free to pick up the one you find more useful for your purposes.




Tier list related to tournament results:

Fox
Jigglypuff
Falco
Sheik
Peach
Marth
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Ganondorf
Dr Mario
Pikachu
Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link
Roy
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game & Watch
Mewtwo
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby




Tier list related to theory:

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco (tied up with Marth)
Peach
Jigglypuff
C.Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Ganondorf
Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi
DK
Link
Pikachu
Ness
Pichu
Young Link
Zelda
Roy
Mr. Game&Watch
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Bowser
Kirby
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
16,323
Location
The Netherlands
Repost:

S: Fox, Jigglypuff, Falco
A: Sheik, Marth, Peach
B: Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers
C: Samus, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf
D: Luigi, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, Mario
E: Link, Young Link, Roy
F: Yoshi, Zelda, Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo, Ness, Bowser
G: Pichu, Kirby
 

N64

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
2,158
Location
Stalking Skler
Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Pikachu
Link
Donkey Kong
Mewtwo
Young Link
Zelda
Roy
Yoshi
Mr Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby
 

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,872
Tier list related to theory:

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco (tied up with Marth)
Peach
Jigglypuff
C.Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Ganondorf
Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi
DK
Link
Pikachu
Ness
Pichu
Young Link
Zelda
Roy
Mr. Game&Watch
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Bowser
Kirby
i like this list other than the placings for dr mario, ness, and pichu.
would swap doc and mario

would move ness and pichu much lower
 

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
fox
falco
jigglypuff
sheik
marth
peach
captain falcon
ice climbers
dr. mario
ganondorf
samus
pikachu
mario
luigi
donkey kong
link
young link
mewtwo
roy
yoshi
mr. game & watch
zelda
ness
bowser
kirby
pichu
 

Armada

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
1,366
Jigglypuff

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Samus
Ganondorf
Dr. Mario

Luigi
Pikachu
Mario
Donkey Kong

Link
Yoshi
Young Link
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr. Game & Watch
Kirby

Bowser
Pichu
Ness
Roy

Roy and Ness is terrible chars.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,688
Because we hate you :mad:

Or maybe because your name is written as Tero and not Tero. in the memberlist. I'm fixing that right now ;)
Already knew that. I just wanted to point it out.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,688
I kinda not want to put Fox 1st...
I knew he is in theory the best character, I just never actually see it so I'm going to do something crazy...


Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Peach
Fox
Marth


Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Dr Mario
Ganondorf
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Pikachu
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Link

Yoshi
Roy
Mewtwo

Mr. Game & Watch
Zelda
Bowser
Pichu
Ness
Kirby

(might edit later)
 

Armada

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
1,366
Marc: Yeah i know.
But i guess the "new" metagame when people platform camping is just really good against IC.

But yeah IC is the most hard char for me to give a spot.
In one way i wanna give them a really high spot but in another way i wanna give the the spot under Falcon.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Falco
Fox
Jigglypuff

Sheik
Marth

Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Doctor Mario
Ganon
Samus

Luigi
Pikachu
DK
Mario
Link

Roy
Zelda
Young Link

Pichu
Mewtwo
Game and Watch
Bowser

Ness
Yoshi
Kirby
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth

Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Doctor Mario
Ganon
Samus

I'm not voting on lower tiers.
 

Druggedfox

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
2,665
Location
Atlanta
Does anyone else find it funny that, despite uproar about the tier list hbox posted, it's looking like the viable side of the tier list is going to look EXACTLY how he posted it?
 

Luma

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
1,643
Location
Berlin - Germany
Fox
Jiggs
Sheik
Falco
Marth
Peach
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Samus
Ganon
Mario
Pika
Luigi
DK
Link
YLink
Zelda
Yoshi
G&W
Mew2
Bowser
Kirby
Roy
Ness
Pichu
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
Jigglypuff

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Samus
Ganondorf
Dr. Mario

Luigi
Pikachu
Mario
Donkey Kong

Link
Yoshi
Young Link
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr. Game & Watch
Kirby

Bowser
Pichu
Ness
Roy

Roy and Ness is terrible chars.
Are you implying that not only is Jiggs the best character in the game, but she is so far ahead of the game that she deserves her own tier?
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
fox
falco
jigglypuff
sheik
marth
peach
captain falcon
ice climbers
dr. mario
ganondorf
samus
pikachu
mario
luigi
donkey kong
link
zelda
mewtwo
young link
bowser
yoshi
mr. game & watch
ness
roy
pichu
kirby
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,048
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I haven't understood exactly what the logic behind a good tier list should be, however I will post two different lists. The first one is about recent tournament results, and more related to facts. The second one instead is more related to theory and the way I see certain characters/match ups. Feel free to pick up the one you find more useful for your purposes.




Tier list related to tournament results:

Fox
Jigglypuff
Falco
Sheik
Peach
Marth
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Ganondorf
Dr Mario
Mario
Luigi
Pikachu
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link
Roy
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game & Watch
Mewtwo
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby




Tier list related to theory:

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco (tied up with Marth)
Peach
Jigglypuff
C.Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Ganondorf
Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi
DK
Link
Pikachu
Ness
Pichu
Young Link
Zelda
Roy
Mr. Game&Watch
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Bowser
Kirby
when did fox last win a tourney?
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,965
Location
Boston, MA
S:
Falco
Fox
Jigglypuff

A:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

B.
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

C.
Doctor Mario
Ganon
Samus
Pikachu
Luigi
DK
Mario
Link
Zelda
Young Link
Roy

D:
Mewtwo
Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Yoshi
Pichu
Kirby
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
16,323
Location
The Netherlands
when did fox last win a tourney?
It comes down to what weighs more heavily for you: strict results, potential or a combination of those elements. For most people it's the latter, including myself. If you want to strictly go by results then Jigglypuff is #1 in a tier of her own because even when Europe and the US get together, finals will be Jiggs dittos unless Mango gets drunk. If you just consider potential Fox is #1 in a tier of his own because he's broken on paper. When you consider both, you see that Fox still is a very dominant force in tournaments with some untapped potential left in him, but doesn't win them. It's up to you whether that makes him #1, #2 or I guess #3, if you think Falco does a better job currently.
 

Druggedfox

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
2,665
Location
Atlanta
Also, the number of fox players matter. I made a list of all the fox players that I think would guaranteed make it into a national/international bracket (only north america, not dissing europe). There were double the number of the next highest: falco.

The sheer number of fox players implies something.
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
16,323
Location
The Netherlands
I also think Fox players have the highest chance of breaking the chokehold Jiggs and Peach have on respectively the US/world and Europe, because theoretically they should have an even or better than even matchup against both of them, as well as the rest of the cast.
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,518
Location
On top of Milktea
Top:

Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff

Something Between Top and High, possibly Cool Kids Club:

Sheik
Marth
Peach

High:

Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Middle:

Doctor Mario
Ganon
Samus
Mario
Pikachu
Luigi
DK

Low:

Link
Young Link
Roy
Zelda

Bottom:

Game and Watch
Ness
Mewtwo
Yoshi
Bowser

Lol:

Kirby
Pichu



I still think Fox is better than Falco, nobody is just consistent enough to win with Fox yet. Stop johning, Fox players. Also, yes, I do think G&W is that good.
 

Ignatius

List Evader
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
5,517
I think the next tier list should be called "Ice Climbers are 8th: The Tier List"
That's what happened last vote, when we apparently didnt have enough votes. Literally every person put IC's at 8th, and I really enjoyed that.
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,518
Location
On top of Milktea
There should definitely be a footnote that everyone voted ICs as 8th. You know, if we don't actually call it "Ice Climbers are 8th: The Tier List"
 

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,872
**** you guys i'm putting them at last when i finally put mine together

 
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