1-5-08 vids added feat the Tunes, TSA, Bum, M2K, Tope

Bass. · Dec 28, 2007

Eggm · Dec 28, 2007

Some vids of Swift bass, NOT bass, they are diff people. xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-irvJzh14Qc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOfsrZCQCA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6tOMR6Ugrc

forward · Dec 29, 2007

Bass (Green Falco) VS Eggm (Red Falco) on PS, review for Bass

Bass (Green Falco) VS Eggm (Red Falco) on PS

The match starts with the players on different heights of the stage. Green goes for drop and laser, Red goes for IDJ (instant double jump) high-low lasers, where Green gets hit by the low laser. This laser should have been avoided by jumping between the lasers. From Green's position he could have gone for a counter IDJ high-low, or a full jump back onto the platform.

The next important sequence is at 00:10, where Green lands a shuffle n air against a shielded Red. Green does shuffle nair (Red shields), shine (Red shields), shuffle away d air (Red shield grabs). The shield grab would have been avoided had Green not done a fast fall. If instead Greed did short hop away d air, without the fast fall, he would have landed outside shield grab range, and would have been given a strong advantage.

At 00:16 seconds the players exchange a shuffle approach, both missing. Since Red was on a platform, Green would recover first from attack. A RSHL would have been appropriate here, since they were both at a distance far enough to be safe from a shuffle approach, and would also be advantageous for Green since his would start earlier, had they both gone for it. I believe Red actually expected a laser, due to his next action of run in shield. So to not RSHL may have been good.

The laser that green landed at 00:17 was good, but was not followed up correctly. The sequence goes Green lasers (Red is hit), Green jabs (Red dodges), Green dash back RSHL (Red shields). This is where the situation becomes tricky.

In order for Red to launch any attack his shield must be lowered, this would cause a significant delay to any attack that Red is attempting, therefor, Red is at a disadvantage to attack. However, this does not mean an open invitation for Green to attack. Red still has a strong arsenal of moves to reverse any attack by green, be it shield grab, dodge, WD, or jumping. The best route to take in this scenario is to shut down Red's counters, and force him to attack from a disadvantage.

The next move in the sequence is Green shuffle nair (Red full jumps). Although Green escapes fairly safe, this was potential death for Green to be underneath a Falco in this position. Had Red IDJ and stayed close to Green, and baited out the ground dodge (which Green did) he would have been able to shine and combo.

What Green should have done instead of the nair is IDJ high-mid lasers onto the side platform. It would have caught Red's escape from the shield, the lasers would combo (or Red would jump out, resulting in a potential lost jump combo), and Green would be at a huge advantage. Even if Red had not jumped out of shield, Green would still be safe on the side platform, and only be in danger if Red WD in from shield. At such a high risk, the WD in would be unlikely, so it would be a safe guess for Green.

As you can see at 00:20 Red is put in the same situation as Green from 00:17. Red dash dances to bait an escape from shield by Green, preferably a roll. Green rolls in and is punished accordingly. A roll is easily predictable by a ledge for the same reason that teching away from the ledge is predictable, the natural reflex is to stay alive by staying away from the edge.

By dash dancing, Red is doing two things. Taking more control of the area he is in, and giving up control from the area behind Green. To give the opponent 10% of the stage to work with, and give yourself the other 90% is a sound decision. Red is willing to stop his assault for this control.

Green made a bad guess by rolling into Red's area. When a player rolls in, it is best used to escape a lunging attack, which often results in a trade of the areas that each player controls. While possible, it is unlikely that Red would pursue with such a strong attack where he could lose control of his area. If Red did continue his assault, it would be with moves that slowly advance, such as jabs, f tilts, and lasers, in this case, Red did SHL.

What Green should have done is either roll backwards or WD away. Red would only be able to punish if he shuffled behind the point where Green was shielding. As discussed though, this would trade control or areas for Red, which is not what Red wants. Even if Red did pursue, it is unlikely the attack would connect if Green immediately shielded after his roll or WD. Red's attack would be delayed by his dash dance, giving more time to Green to shield.

There is another reversal option the shield gives you when you have your back to the ledge. If your opponent pushes you off of the stage, and you fall and grab the ledge, you have the chance to counter, with invincibility. If the opponent is close after they push you off, you can jump onto the stage with an aerial attack. If the opponent is far when they knock you off, you can jump on with double lasers.

At 00:24 the jabs worked, but they shouldn't have. The current counter to jabs is CC grab. However Red failed to grab and Green got away with it.

At 00:27 Green attacked prematurely. Although Green was at an advantage after the tech chase, and the laser was good, there was no reason the laser should have been followed by a shuffle nair if it didn't connect, this was a result of poor reflexes.

A full jump dair or a full jump shine would have caught Red in his full jump. Judging by %, a shine would be the better option, since the dair might not stun long enough to be followed safely.

The recovery at 00:31 was done incorrectly. When recovering against a Falco, seldom should a stage height recovery be used. The reason being that the lasers will knock you down. However, once the laser hit the first fire, a phantasm could have been used to reach the ledge. Although it could have been d-smashed, it could still have been teched.

The recovery was lost for good at 00:33. There was no way around the bair.

Green should have waited to use the second jump, to possibly go for a sweet spot phantasm. Judging on the reaction of Red, Greed can then decide if he want to use fire instead, where he can mind game between sweet spotting the ledge, going to the stage, or going up and falling to grab the ledge.

After the first stock the match was lost. Red was playing on point and exposed Green's weaknesses.

The weaknesses being:
-Few laser
-No WD
-Dependency on jabs, shuffle nairs, and shield stun series such as waveshines and double shines
-Bad recovery
-Failure to capitalize on punishment situations
-Playing by patterns

The last subject can be broken down a little deeper, here is what I saw.
-Attempts to approach or gain initiative while being tech chased
-Runs away while being attacked instead of trading hits

Neither of those are bad options when used sparingly, but when used constantly it becomes predictable, and easy to manipulate.

Bass. · Dec 29, 2007

Thanks a lot man, I appreciate it. I'm on my way to a smashfest now, so I'm going to check all this out late tonight. Btw, we recorded some more today with some different characters or what not too. Hopefully I can get Bum or Mexican to post on some of my DK. Shiz or chops if you see something I should improve on too, please hit it up.

Gonna try to get some vids of me getting ***** by L2K or M2Ks marth tonight. Hopefully you guys can help me out with that too.

Teczer0 · Dec 30, 2007

Forward's input was definitely really informative >_> I want that sort of criticism.

I'm sorta scared to get bashed but I would love it.

So informative and mad observative.

R3N0 · Dec 30, 2007

lol **** son. forward gave the play by play.

Yoooooo these guys are so gooD!
Something ;-)

-reno

Heart Break Kid · Dec 30, 2007

R3N0 shut ur ***. umm i need to play with the tunes apparently cuz u guys umm play. lol good stuff in the vids bass, lemme know whens the nxt time u eggm or whoever is practicing and ill see if i can drive down there.

Bass. · Dec 30, 2007

I play everyday at any evening. If there's no tournament on Saturdays, I'm willing to play then. Sunday all day.

There's a bunch more vids on eggms computer of like other match ups and fights. I guess he'll put some on later. Put more of Me vs Pakman, Me vs Treble, and more of you vs Treble up (the fox, falcon, yoshi, etc.)

Mew2King · Dec 30, 2007

put all of mine up

takieddine · Dec 30, 2007

Bass is beast.

Scar · Dec 31, 2007

lol M2K is ********. I love how good he is / how all his matches are on FD. Good **** Bass, you are way too good.

Eggm · Dec 31, 2007

I'll put some more up eventually.

Cheezit · Dec 31, 2007

beast Vids tunes keep it up i'll be sure to show next time

Eggm · Jan 1, 2008

No comments on what people think of the The Tunes?

random smasher · Jan 1, 2008

The Tunes are too good.

Eggm · Jan 2, 2008

You are right sir.

jugfingers · Jan 3, 2008

forward your observations would have been far better if you gave them in a classroom with the video playing from a projector on to a chalkboard and you were equipped with chalk.

slikvik · Jan 3, 2008

m2ks sheik is gay. also the tunes are too good

Bass. · Jan 3, 2008

Updated with some VaNz vs Bum videos.

Eggm · Jan 3, 2008

God **** vanz, you might be the best in our crew now.

Your peach is so nasty.

Bass. · Jan 3, 2008

Eggm said:
God **** vanz, you might be the best in our crew now. Your peach is so nasty.

He'd definitely have to challenge me for that first.

Eggm · Jan 3, 2008

I smell a MM. Since you've guys have probably never met/played, then there will be no in the same crew johns.

brickman · Jan 4, 2008

God ****, good matches.

Teczer0 · Jan 5, 2008

Jeez why didn't I record with you guys LOL I need to record with you guys

Hey guys watch this friendly:

Teczero(Jigglypuff) and Vanz (Young Link) vs Oorah(Falco) and Dc Scribbz(CF)

Around 1:00 - 1:05 pretty random >_<

Bass. · Jan 6, 2008

Lol, nice six stock!

Xzax Kasrani · Jan 7, 2008

dang i loved the m2k v.s bass good stuff i havent looked at tanything else...(yet) but i will!

Bass. · Jan 7, 2008

A few more vids have been added from this past weekend. There will be a lot more added as soon as Eggm gets them up.

The Reik (Falco) vs Tec0 (Marth) battle was too epic/good.

Teczer0 · Jan 7, 2008

Me and Reik had too many matches >_< put those upppppp

.

LOL Bass ***** me was that recorded? lol and put my matches vs keitaro up eggm

.

I have to think up of something vs that blasted bird

Eggm · Jan 7, 2008

No way putting up jiggs vids is a waste of effort and banned in The Tunes, I will however get your other matches up.

Teczer0 · Jan 7, 2008

wtf

Im joining an all jiggs crew now :laugh:

Eggm

Bass. · Jan 7, 2008

Massive video update.

PHIL07 · Jan 8, 2008

sneaks to good!

Sneak8288 · Jan 8, 2008

put more vids up... eggm n reik falco dittos

Eggm · Jan 8, 2008

Lol, maybe we have a ton of vids already tho. ^^;

slikvik · Jan 8, 2008

you guys are amazing as usual but more m2k. his gimps are too ridiculous

D1 · Jan 8, 2008

*subcribes to thread*

Reik is back to rake ya'll n*ggaz.

Keitaro · Jan 9, 2008

Tec0's Marth is too sexy! It goes so far off the edge so fast that even when you mess up you scare the **** outta me, lol!

Witchking_of_Angmar · Jan 9, 2008

I love M2K's sheik. ^^

Sneak8288 · Jan 9, 2008

put more of me up :chuckle:

Teczer0 · Jan 9, 2008

Keitaro said:
Tec0's Marth is too sexy! It goes so far off the edge so fast that even when you mess up you scare the **** outta me, lol!

LMAO I need to work on my marth I was experimenting a few stuff on Reik that day

soon maybe I'll be confident enough to use him in a tournament LOL.

1-5-08 vids added feat the Tunes, TSA, Bum, M2K, Tope

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