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1.0.8 Marth changes

LoreLes

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So far messing with Marth, and the most noticeable thing here is that his jab now true combos with both hits. The first hit floats the opponent up similar to Link's first jab.

If anyone finds more changes, feel free to add them.
 
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Vipermoon

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I'm going to mostly copy my post from the Marth general thread.

So Jab 1 does 1 less damage non tipper and tip, but leads to everything. Whether you want to true combo it to jab 2, or bait an air dodge, maybe get some Utilt, or idk tipper FSMASH, grab....

Utilt is stronger tipper and non tipper, and looking at the animation, Utilt is less laggy, somewhere between 37-39 frames it seems rather than 42

All aerials probably have the same knockback. Same damage, horrible autocancel, and landing lag except Nair. Nair seems to have less landing lag when compared to Uair landing lag. There seems to be a bigger difference between the 2.

It's true, jab 2 doesn't connect after 100% even though it looks like it should (hate that). However, above 100, if you got tipper jab 1, and wait just a little bit, you can get tipper jab 2 still a true combo. But this isnt too important, you want to kill them at high percents, so just use jab 1 into something else. At low percents both jabs work perfect thats all I need

It seems you can get jab 2 earlier, like maybe input after frame 18ish instead of 20

OMG, I am loving this. Jab 1 to tipper Fsmash is DABOMB

ANOTHER Utilt change, the body hitbox (the one that does 5%), now sends them upwards. I hate that, it used to send them horizontal (off stage)

At first I thought DS had better range for the 11% hitbox but I doubt it, it's probably the same strength too, hard to tell. Possible that it's stronger.

Grab range is exactly the same

Dsmash, unfortunately is exactly the same

Uthrow is exactly the same

Ftilt is exactly the same

Dtilt is exactly the same

Fsmash, same

Usmash, same

can no longer jab lock with jab. GRRRRRR :mad::mad::mad:

Can't do 2 aerials in a short hop. Like I said, aerials are the same.

Seems like dancing blade is the same.

Shield breaker seems the same

Throws seem the same. I got Fthrow to Fair to combo on Marth at 50%, that's normal I believe with no DI

Dash attack is the same

Fair still doesn't hit on frame 5 (above Marth) even though the animation still says it does
 
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LoreLes

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I'd like to add that I've been able to get Jab 1>Upsmash as a true combo in training mode at kill percents.

EDIT: Scratch that, it's not consistent.
 
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Vipermoon

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I'd like to add that I've been able to get Jab 1>Upsmash as a true combo in training mode at kill percents.
Thats awesome. I havent seen Jab 1 to Fsmash true combo yet (I didnt try for very long) but it's definitely formidable. Tipper jab 1 will defiintely lead to tipper Fsmash at kill percents.
 

LoreLes

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Thats awesome. I havent seen Jab 1 to Fsmash true combo yet (I didnt try for very long) but it's definitely formidable. Tipper jab 1 will defiintely lead to tipper Fsmash at kill percents.
Yeah, just tested it more, and it's not being consistent on fast fallers and some medium weights(jab to Upsmash).
 
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Vipermoon

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The back hit of Utilt combos into Uair

Lucina sometimes say "ha" while doing up B

Lucina's Ftilt now does more than 10.5%, up from 9.97%

Think I have proof that nair has less landing lag. First hit of tippers Nair combos into Utilt well before 100%. It wasnt like that before

THIS IS WEIRD: Marth moves forward while doing Utilt!! Did he do that before? I would have noticed. They have to be consecutive Utilts.
 
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Cazdon

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Dair spike doesn't seem as strict. I can get it if I'm adjacent to Mario then FH dair with tipper, with no movement. Used to be you had to be directly over them if I'm not mistaken.
 

Vipermoon

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Dair spike doesn't seem as strict. I can get it if I'm adjacent to Mario then FH dair with tipper, with no movement. Used to be you had to be directly over them if I'm not mistaken.
No Dair spike is the same. You never had to be directly over them, all you had to do is hit them on frame 11, and not any other frame. It would spike and usually frame 11's hitbox would connect when they are under you. But not always. It's the same though, people said the same thing last patch
 
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kro_

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Seeing as how good Roy seems to be, it sucks that Marth is mostly unchanged

oh well
 

RespectingOpinions

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The only thing I know for sure is Jab combo. Utilt does feel faster though. Unfortunate loss of jab reset, now Marth can't reset at all. Nair feels the same. If it's been changed at all, it's not by much.
 

RespectingOpinions

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Dair feels easier to hit. I've gotten more Ken "combos" today in training mode than I ever have before. Could be placebo though.
 

Akira213

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Other than the jab, I can't find any changes. He seems to be relatively untouched.
 

Quickhero

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I haven't been able to pull them off. Anyone got footage?
Jab1 to DB is still extremely viable, it's a kill confirm for a wee bit (around the 70s-90s, then it starts becoming a bit harder to connect the final hit) but it's also a great damage racking tool, which is mainly what I use it for. I haven't recorded any footage of me doing it, or at least I'm pretty sure I haven't, but I'll try to by tomorrow morning if you remind me.
Other than the jab, I can't find any changes. He seems to be relatively untouched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pSAsoxjqc
His u-tilt scales better and goes directly upwards as well, but yeah jab and u-tilt are the only changes given to him. They're still really nice buffs though and I'm completely content with them. (I would be content with no buffs at all, actually, but this makes me even more happy) :3
 
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Road Death Wheel

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Jab1 to DB is still extremely viable, wouldn't call it a kill confirm but it exists. I haven't recorded any footage of me doing it, or at least I'm pretty sure I haven't, but I'll try to by tomorrow morning if you remind me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pSAsoxjqc
His u-tilt scales better and goes directly upwards as well, but yeah jab and u-tilt are the only changes given to him. They're still really nice buffs though and I'm completely content with them. (I would be content with no buffs at all, actually, but this makes me even more happy) :3
jab 1 into tipper f smash is a thing. its tricky but solid kills at 60%
 

Quickhero

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jab 1 into tipper f smash is a thing. its tricky but solid kills at 60%
I heard that's only a thing for heavy characters, as smaller/lighter characters can fast fall out of it and manage to not get hit by the f-smash; I can't seem to get it off on Meta Knight either way. Perhaps I'm wrong, though.
 

Road Death Wheel

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I heard that's only a thing for heavy characters, as smaller/lighter characters can fast fall out of it and manage to not get hit by the f-smash; I can't seem to get it off on Meta Knight either way. Perhaps I'm wrong, though.
that might be the case but ya can still go for them air dodge reads and just hold the f smash charge or just go for a jab fair combo or somthin.
 
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BrendanLee

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With Lucina I have found a follow up. Jab 1 to Crescent slash!! Doesnt work on fast fallers, also depends on character weight before it starts to work. Luigi could airdodge out at very low percents.I havent tested too much with marth. Maybe his tipper jab 1 could make a greater difference

Around 106% for captain falcon (without rage)
0-40% on Ness (without rage)
 
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MOI-ARI

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With Lucina I have found a follow up. Jab 1 to Crescent slash!! Doesnt work on fast fallers, also depends on character weight before it starts to work. Luigi could airdodge out at very low percents.I havent tested too much with marth. Maybe his tipper jab 1 could make a greater difference
Yeah that kOs like at %145 on average for most characters xD Its a start, im mean it IS a true combo, so theres that.haha
 

Freelance Spy

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Thats awesome. I havent seen Jab 1 to Fsmash true combo yet (I didnt try for very long) but it's definitely formidable. Tipper jab 1 will defiintely lead to tipper Fsmash at kill percents.
Kill percents or tipper fsmash kill percents?

I gotta know if I can wreck people at 50%...
 

Vipermoon

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Kill percents or tipper fsmash kill percents?

I gotta know if I can wreck people at 50%...
Tipper jab 1 doesn't true combo into tipper Fsmash until maybe 200. But tipper jab 1 doesn't put them (another Marth) into tumble animation until 122%. At 121% tipper Fsmash connects perfectly. It won't combo but that doesn't mean it won't work. Or you can keep charging Fsmash until they air dodge into the ground. FYI non tipper jab won't put a Marth into tumble until 175%.

With all that said, whether it's tipper jab 1 (vertical knockback) or non tipper jab 1 (diagonal kb) Utilt is faster and more reliable than Fsmash. Utilt happens to kill way earlier and actually combos so that is definitely the most formidable jab 1 setup
 

Freelance Spy

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Tipper jab 1 doesn't true combo into tipper Fsmash until maybe 200. But tipper jab 1 doesn't put them (another Marth) into tumble animation until 122%. At 121% tipper Fsmash connects perfectly. It won't combo but that doesn't mean it won't work. Or you can keep charging Fsmash until they air dodge into the ground. FYI non tipper jab won't put a Marth into tumble until 175%.

With all that said, whether it's tipper jab 1 (vertical knockback) or non tipper jab 1 (diagonal kb) Utilt is faster and more reliable than Fsmash. Utilt happens to kill way earlier and actually combos so that is definitely the most formidable jab 1 setup
Interesting to note, I will, of course, find the best time to pull out a fsmash due to conditioning, but utilt's buff is fantastic.

I can't tell, but Nair might be better... I hope that we get some roy-esque grab game at some point...

I kinda thought Utilt's new kill power was a bit of a nerf as I would link it into itself and play mindgames with just one move, but now I still can do similar things plus kill plus setup with jab.

Think outr shiek MU looks any better?
 

Vipermoon

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Interesting to note, I will, of course, find the best time to pull out a fsmash due to conditioning, but utilt's buff is fantastic.

I can't tell, but Nair might be better... I hope that we get some roy-esque grab game at some point...

I kinda thought Utilt's new kill power was a bit of a nerf as I would link it into itself and play mindgames with just one move, but now I still can do similar things plus kill plus setup with jab.

Think outr shiek MU looks any better?
Nair was buffed, less landing lag. I'm guessing 2 frames less. Utilt lags 3-5 frames less to the point where it combos into itself (if you hit with the back hit then turnaround and hit with the front) and where the back hit of Utilt combos into Uair. Nothing about Utilt was a nerf. Well actually in my opinion, the body hit sending opponents vertical instead of horizontal is a nerf but whatever. Overall Utilt was brought back to Brawl power and lag (maybe a little less lag than brawl, maybe the same). Only it still doesn't do damage.

With Sheik not getting buffed (I heard somewhere her needles got laggier..again) and Marth indeed buffed yeah the MU is a little bit better. Increments though.

Edit: Sheiks needles are unchanged it was just a dumb rumor
 
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Admiral_Dante

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Tipper jab 1 doesn't true combo into tipper Fsmash until maybe 200. But tipper jab 1 doesn't put them (another Marth) into tumble animation until 122%. At 121% tipper Fsmash connects perfectly. It won't combo but that doesn't mean it won't work. Or you can keep charging Fsmash until they air dodge into the ground. FYI non tipper jab won't put a Marth into tumble until 175%.

With all that said, whether it's tipper jab 1 (vertical knockback) or non tipper jab 1 (diagonal kb) Utilt is faster and more reliable than Fsmash. Utilt happens to kill way earlier and actually combos so that is definitely the most formidable jab 1 setup
Sweet, and maybe after you condition someone into expecting the up tilt after a jab you can more easily pull off the airdodge bait and punish. Delicious.
 

Vipermoon

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Sweet, and maybe after you condition someone into expecting the up tilt after a jab you can more easily pull off the airdodge bait and punish. Delicious.
I know. The possibilities are endless!! Mindgames mindgames mindgames
 

Solutionme

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Seems useful but to be honest the loss of jab resetting hurts me too much, unless there was a way to stale jab so much that you could actually jab reset with it, then Marth is looking to be a ton better, just not Roy that is for sure.
 

Chibi-Chan

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Dubious about Jab into Fsmash. It has plenty of holes to dodge it or something, and Fsmash is VERY UNSAFE! That setup is a big gamble compared to ftilt or something.
 

Solutionme

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Marth is a big gamble period, he just isn't that good anymore, while I appreciate the reduction of lag on some moves, I feel it would help if he had at least one usable setup that leads reliably into a shield breaker. Also make Lucina get a mix of Roy and Marth's traits, that would make her interesting.
 

MOI-ARI

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Marth is a big gamble period, he just isn't that good anymore, while I appreciate the reduction of lag on some moves, I feel it would help if he had at least one usable setup that leads reliably into a shield breaker. Also make Lucina get a mix of Roy and Marth's traits, that would make her interesting.
Yeah Lucina truly seems redundant at this point. I wish she was the fastest of the FE bunch yet dealing low damage or something. I'd be down for that.
 
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Chibi-Chan

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Well I like to play Marth safe. He still has great mobility and some stuff that's very difficult to punish. You really don't want to lose your momentum during a match, even if you have to slowly, meticulously, dismantle your opponent piece by piece... Putting them in trap after trap, lots of safe setups and safe approaches...

So yeah, I perfer fair or ftilt after new jab, maybe Nair. Jumping DB1 is solid as usual, but I have a hard time with the punish/followups at that height.
 

Freelance Spy

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It's confirmed Nair got buffed, 12 frames of landing lag instead of 15
 
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