So what did you think of the video? Does it change your mind about Link's viability? Where do you think Link stands in the tier-list? Let us know in the comments.
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ＬＩＮＫ- A Japanese Link Combo Video
- Thread starter wncozens
- Start date
So what did you think of the video? Does it change your mind about Link's viability? Where do you think Link stands in the tier-list? Let us know in the comments.
Wncozens is a writer for Smashboards and is arguably the greatest human in existence. He is mainly interested in telling the stories various members of the community have to share and he favors a more in-depth style of reporting. You can follow him on Twitter @wnocoz for updates you probably don't care about.
Comments
was cool. I've never seen that footstool combo before. might make him better. and the bombs were sick with the saves.
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I need to try some of these into my gameplay.
Uh... his airspeed was made better in Smash 4 though.
I still stand that Link's climbing the list.
Link's Air Speed now is 0.88.
Link's Air Speed in Melee is 1.0
Link's Air Speed now is 0.88.
Hilarious. Have you actually checked how much they've increased it from Brawl? Because the air speed buff was miniscule as **** and practically unnoticeable.
Link's air speed is faster (0.8084 → 0.88).
Link has the 6th/7th worst air speed in the game.
He also had the 6th worst air speed in Brawl.
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Sorry I misread this as "decided to nerf it coming from Brawl." My apologies.
Still better than nothing though. Right?
I don't see how this would change viability at all. It's a good video but it doesn't introduce that many new things.
Only thing interesting is the bomb footstool setup, and that seems dependent on how long nair locks, which I don't know. If it locks forever, then it's a good tool to use. Otherwise, it's best as just low% combos.
Link still has **** frame data, bad speed and a bad grab, all of which is important for high level play.
Only thing interesting is the bomb footstool setup, and that seems dependent on how long nair locks, which I don't know. If it locks forever, then it's a good tool to use. Otherwise, it's best as just low% combos.
Link still has **** frame data, bad speed and a bad grab, all of which is important for high level play.
Nope.
Believe this when I say he needs his 1 air speed back, but what's stopping him is the fact that Toon Link is supposed to be the more aerial versatile character and has more mobility.
You forget that we have characters like:
and who fit the bill quite nicely, yet you're not complaining about them at all! These characters are middle to high to top tier characters and they either have poor frame data (Bayonetta's makes Link's frame data a godsend), sub-par mobility or just a sucky grab or throw combo option game.
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pretty cool, Izaw has better combo videos tho.... post it insted of this, god dammit..... However i'll tell you a joke: What happens when Link enters into a bar with Sonic and Rosalinda talking each other ? Link becomes "Cloudy" ahahahah got it? CLOUDY ahahahahahaha Link will be always low tier, Sakurai hates him
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has a bad grab, and she's a top 10 character. If you have a Sword, you can sacrifice some mobility, like , a high-to-mid tier character.
Link's frame data is worse than pretty much all of these.Nope.
You forget that we have characters like:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...l-DuqoUAyCSNb0J6qXTnhjJjD0/edit#gid=293376651
(Bayo's frame data wasn't changed from 1.1.5 to 1.1.6)
Link, according to this, has the 55th worst frame speed of every character. Only one who has worse of the characters you mentioned was Ike.
Ike and Robin both have kill confirms and combos off their game, Corrin has a great sideB for mobility and bayo is a pretty good fast faller and has decent runspeed as well. Please do research before anything, please.
ZSS and Link have extremely similar grabs so I don't know why you're using it as a way to make link look better.
Corrin has side B which buffs her mobility by a ****ton and she still has better frame data, a godlike gimmick side B, punish game and has a kill throw that's earlier than Links.
I'm not. I'm pointing out that it's possible to be a good character with a bad grab, which you seemed to have misunderstood.
Yes, outside of Side-B she still has bad mobility and Side-b can be shielded and punished. Link also has actual combos, one of the best projectiles in the game, a hoo-hah that kills earlier than either of Corrin's throws, a potential infinite or garunteed kill confirm, and lives longer.
My point is, it's okay to trade mobility for power sometimes.
Dude, read the list again. It's in a random order.
And secondly, the list only accounts for start-up. That's not the entire frame data of characters' attacks. The thing is, you have to account for ending lag/cooldown on attacks. If you tally that up, Link's miles ahead of the aforementioned characters I've listed.
Thirdly, Link has kill confirms and combos off throws and bomb setups, easy. And hey, he also has many recovery options, the best edge-guarding game in the entire game, and some amazing projectiles to boot. His lack of mobility only keeps him down for so much.
And I find it funny that you tell me to do research when you're not doing your own.
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I wouldn't say the he has the best edge-guarding in the game, closer to one of the best in the game but, to each their own.
You say that like Link doesn't have kill confirms. Who exactly do you think Toon Link got his kill confirms from?
So, your kidding right? If you actually list them to best to worst, you can see for yourself.
Averages of said list, in ranking order: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DxzVYr9AGDuG98DdLGHjr4PgAHQ8tPCQfR_WzT62FTQ/edit?usp=sharing
Links all the way on the bottom.
As for your second point, Link has long lasting hitboxes on most of his attacks, but have tons of cooldown. This is seen in the majority of his moveset, downair having 30 frames of endlag, His grab having around 40 frames, Arrows having around 30, etc. So do your research, once more.
Third point, Compare links grab to robin or ike's, his is really slow and laggy. His combos can't be over extended from grab because of his cooldown and frame speed. he can combo off of bombs, that's about it.
And he doesn't have the best edgeguarding in the game, his edgeguarding is pretty average compared to the rest of the cast. His recovery is as solid as a tether goes, and when you're out of range for a tether, that's a free spike for anyone who has a decent one.
So please do your research, thanks.
Link's grab is very slow and punishable, it's a risky move to make. Ike and Robin both have better grabs than Link for the same reward.
Don't worry, this guy's a certified troll if I've ever seen one. He said Link's ending lag on Down Aerial is 30 frames when it's a mere 16 frames, which is half of his 32 frame landing lag. He even went on to keep pestering with the same list that doesn't prove a damn thing about character move speeds since it only calculates start-up lag.
from what I can tell, this sort of performance demonstrates that Link's viable... just very difficult to use to the best potential...
unfortunately, this runs the assumption that tournaments are run on mostly Omega Stages... now I'm not going to scoff For Glory in Japan, because from what I've heard, they're much more competent than the rest of the world... but it would be nice to see some big things in other terrains as well.
unfortunately, this runs the assumption that tournaments are run on mostly Omega Stages... now I'm not going to scoff For Glory in Japan, because from what I've heard, they're much more competent than the rest of the world... but it would be nice to see some big things in other terrains as well.
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Link
Scroll down, says for itself. 32 frames of endlag.
Also, I'm assuming either your the troll here, or you just want to act superior. I'm not into starting things, I've said what I've had to say. Good day, sir.
I don't think anyone here wanted to hear any of that.
u mad brah?!!! Link is bad , deal with it !!!
Since Link is one of the characters I am most comfortable with I found this interesting (also someone dragged me onto hyrule warriors lately, so yay for that music).
Some of these things aren't that impressive though. Like some of the Dairs, especially on some characters like Little Mac where it's already easy to kill them like that. Then there's some other things that you would never be able to get away with against top tier players.
Is there a reason why the link threw the bomb up to get blown up by it instead of just holding it? This ain't melee, you can't just hit bombs so you have to time it. So because of this I never really bothered to try getting hit from the explosion instead. Does it throw you at a different angle or something? It just seems like a way to make it easier for the enemy to hit you (especially if they decide to go after the bomb so you can't get hit by it).
I laughed when Link shot an arrow at a fully charged shadow ball from Mewtwo though. Didn't even stop the Shadow Ball.
Curious, would it have been possible for that Ryu to have let go of his focus attack a little sooner so he could hit Link before the second hit? Or is there a bit too much hitstun for him to pull it off? I'll be honest I don't know a lot about Ryu, but dang do I see Ryu's using it a lot to move around, and to sometimes do a surprise attack in tournaments.
With all that said, I liked some of the bomb combos that were done. However that's the only impressive thing I see here since most of the opponents don't seem to be very good, and you can see the opponents whiffing attacks and making some pretty bad mistakes when they didn't really have an excuse to miss. But hey, I watch like to watch Izaw's Link fight sometimes so maybe my standards are a bit high.
Whatever the case is, when it comes to making Link look like he has a chance to win a tournament, this isn't a video that I would link people to. There's other better videos to inspire people to be a Link main and such.
Since people mentioned tiers, I don't think Link should be as low as he is. However, I don't see him being top tier since he can have troubles with faster characters, or characters that are anti-projectiles. Link isn't only a projectile spammer, but it sure helps a lot and makes it so he's not as predictable.
Some of these things aren't that impressive though. Like some of the Dairs, especially on some characters like Little Mac where it's already easy to kill them like that. Then there's some other things that you would never be able to get away with against top tier players.
Is there a reason why the link threw the bomb up to get blown up by it instead of just holding it? This ain't melee, you can't just hit bombs so you have to time it. So because of this I never really bothered to try getting hit from the explosion instead. Does it throw you at a different angle or something? It just seems like a way to make it easier for the enemy to hit you (especially if they decide to go after the bomb so you can't get hit by it).
I laughed when Link shot an arrow at a fully charged shadow ball from Mewtwo though. Didn't even stop the Shadow Ball.
Curious, would it have been possible for that Ryu to have let go of his focus attack a little sooner so he could hit Link before the second hit? Or is there a bit too much hitstun for him to pull it off? I'll be honest I don't know a lot about Ryu, but dang do I see Ryu's using it a lot to move around, and to sometimes do a surprise attack in tournaments.
With all that said, I liked some of the bomb combos that were done. However that's the only impressive thing I see here since most of the opponents don't seem to be very good, and you can see the opponents whiffing attacks and making some pretty bad mistakes when they didn't really have an excuse to miss. But hey, I watch like to watch Izaw's Link fight sometimes so maybe my standards are a bit high.
Whatever the case is, when it comes to making Link look like he has a chance to win a tournament, this isn't a video that I would link people to. There's other better videos to inspire people to be a Link main and such.
Since people mentioned tiers, I don't think Link should be as low as he is. However, I don't see him being top tier since he can have troubles with faster characters, or characters that are anti-projectiles. Link isn't only a projectile spammer, but it sure helps a lot and makes it so he's not as predictable.
Dude that's landing lag, that's the time when he has his sword stuck in the ground after landing. The hitbox ends on frame 64 and you can act out on frame 80. 80 - 64 = 16 frames of ending lag.
Landing Lag means once you land, there are a certain number of frames until you can act out of it. For Link's case, this is 32. It doesn't have to do with any hitboxes or how long the animation is.