『SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI』General Thread

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PK-remling Fire

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The utter lack of anything smt related in Joker's pass gives me a bit of hope of it in a future challenger pack.

If an smt rep does get in, what spirits would you want to see?
I would choose Pixie and Navarre as novice spirits, Strange Journey Protagonist, Isabeau, and Jack Frost as advanced spirits, Flynn/Demi-Fiend/V protag (whoever the fighter rep isn't), Raidou, and Lucifer as ace spirits, and either YHWH or Stephen as the legendary spirit.
 
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amageish

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Furthermore, third parties up to this point have strictly focused on playable protagonists, even when the opportunity was given to do things differently, so it'll take years for that to change.

At the very least, I could see us simply get a SMTV spirit event with Jack Frost in it somewhere.
Yeah, with the focus on adding in new mechanics, it is a hard time to be a non-protagonist character that wants to get into Smash. I just feel like Jack Frost wouldn't be able to seemlessly represent SMT mechanics as well as a human would...

I'd be kind of surprised if we didn't get an SMTV (maybe even a Nocturne) spirit event if nothing else, but also I am regularly "kind of surprised" about what does/doesn't have Smash content.

The utter lack of anything smt related in Joker's pass gives me a bit of hope of it in a future challenger pack.

If an smt rep does get in, what spirits would you want to see?
I would choose Pixie and Navarre as novice spirits, Strange Journey Protagonist, Isabeau, and Jack Frost as advanced spirits, Flynn/Demi-Fiend/V protag (whoever the fighter rep isn't), Raidou, and Lucifer as ace spirits, and either YHWH or Stephen as the legendary spirit.
Expecting non-Persona ATLUS content with Joker is still probably the most egg I've had on my face in Ultimate speculation... I was really expecting some Mii Costumes for both SMT and EO...

Anyway, this is a fun question! I think I'd go with...

Pixie: :starman:
Jack Frost: :starman:
Jack Frost and Pyro Jack: :starman: :starman: :starman: (enhance Jack Frost)
Alice: :starman: :starman:
Cu Chulainn: :starman: :starman:
Raidou: :starman: :starman: :starman:
Tamaki: :starman: :starman: :starman:
Strange Journey Protag: :starman: :starman: :starman:
Flynn/Nanashi/Aleph/Demifiend (I believe they had a squad name when together in IVA DLC, but I cannot recall it off the top of my head): :starman: :starman: :starman: :starman:
 

SNEKeater

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didn't they gift a spirit for playing the DQXI demo? I could see Frosty getting a similar treatment.
Yeah. It would be a nice move from Atlus (and Nintendo) if they decide to do the same. Release a Shin Megami Tensei V demo, and by playing it you unlock 1 or 2 spirits for Ultimate.
Also this wouldn't negate any chance for a SMT rep in the pass.

The utter lack of anything smt related in Joker's pass gives me a bit of hope of it in a future challenger pack.

If an smt rep does get in, what spirits would you want to see?
I would choose Pixie and Navarre as novice spirits, Strange Journey Protagonist, Isabeau, and Jack Frost as advanced spirits, Flynn/Demi-Fiend/V protag (whoever the fighter rep isn't), Raidou, and Lucifer as ace spirits, and either YHWH or Stephen as the legendary spirit.
That's a tricky question. It depends in how they would approach it: only include human characters? Assuming we would get 8-10 spirits as happened with each challenger pack, maybe they would go with only repping some of the demons.

A mix of both protagonists and demons would be a bit strange.
 

ThatShadowLink

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His unused Apocalypse concepts have some fantastic takes on Dagda, Danu, Innana etc but a lot of his final products are questionable. Like Odin is a mix of pop-culture and traditional elements not unlike a lot of Kaneko designs but instead of being a traditional depiction with a pop-culture zest, it's pop-culture with traditional accessories.
On a few of those accounts, the director of Apocalypse is to blame, and clearly they were chasing Persona's popularity with that game. Doi was basically told to go back to the drawing board on each of the scrapped concepts, which is why we lost out on some better designs. He wasn't given the same freedom that Kaneko had. He's definitely got the chops, it just depends on if they let him work his magic instead of getting in his way.
 

PSIGuy

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It's not like Doi's perfect when he has complete creative control either (his Zeus is different for the sake of being different, for instance) but at least it wasn't sabotaged by baffling plot strings. What the hell is a Mitra-Bodhisvata?

If an smt rep does get in, what spirits would you want to see?
I think IV/IVA style hordes (groups of similarly themed demons) would work well - a way to represent entire demon races in a single Spirit.
Among them -
Fairy Horde - :starman: Support
Pixie, High Pixie, Titania, Oberon [Autoheal]

Jack Brothers - :starman: Primary - Shield
Jack Frost, Jack-o-Lantern, Jack the Ripper
>>Evolution>>
True Jack Brothers :starman: :starman: :starman: Primary - Shield
King Frost, Black Frost, Demonee-ho, Frost Ace [Special Move Power Up]

Divine Horde - :starman: :starman: Support
Angel, Archangel, New V Angel, Metatron [Bane of Dark ]

Fallen Horde - :starman: :starman:
Ose, Flauros, New V Imp, Decarabia [Bane of Light]

Divine Powers - :starman: :starman: :starman:
Krishna, Odin, Maitreya [Shield Damage Up]

Then the rest would be based on the main protagonists - the non-playable ones, I mean.

Hero - Pre-Apocalypse - :starman: :starman: Primary - Grab
Hero + Law Hero + Chaos Hero (SNES, pre-timeskip)
>>Evolution>>
Hero - Post Apocalypse - :starman: :starman: :starman: :starman: Primary - Grab
Hero + Heroine + Cerberus (PS1, post-timeskip) [Summoner: Buffs stats when a Pokeball or Assist Trophy character is on the field + Assist Trophy Killer.]

Aleph :starman: :starman: :starman: Primary - Attack
Aleph (PS1 Art) [Dancer-Fighter: User can cancel Taunts or cancel endlag into taunts]

Etc etc etc.
 

ThatShadowLink

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It's not like Doi's perfect when he has complete creative control either (his Zeus is different for the sake of being different, for instance)
Yeah no artist is perfect, but to be fair Zeus hasn't had a new design since Kyuyaku Megami Tensei. And Doi's reasoning for the design is sound, because while he stayed from the greek toga design because it had been done a lot, he definitely still used aspects of the mythology that would have required deep research. So it's fair to say that, while it's not the best of designs, a lot of thought was put into it. Kaneko wasn't perfect out of the gate either, so giving Doi some leg room and letting him design a multitude of demons instead of just a few plot-important ones might let him refine his abilities better and make less outlandish designs.

I do trust him a lot with character designs though, he's never really slacked in that regard. The only time he's turned in bad designs was for Trauma Center Under the Knife 2 which seems like that was also bad management. He was working with an outside company for that as it wasn't developed by Atlus.
If you guys are interested, I stumbled upon a really deep dive onto the SMTV trailer. Goes over the symbolism and implications of a lot of things I hadn't considered so maybe you'll all find something interesting as well.
Oh yeah I saw this a while back, fascinating stuff in there.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I had a fusion accident
I wanted to see what would happen if I stacked Resists but then I pressed the wrong button.

In other news I'm on my way to kill the Black Samurai and I'm more and more convinced this franchise deserves Smash recognition
 

SNEKeater

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I had a fusion accident
I wanted to see what would happen if I stacked Resists but then I pressed the wrong button.

In other news I'm on my way to kill the Black Samurai and I'm more and more convinced this franchise deserves Smash recognition
For this reason I always saved before fusing in SMT IV lol
Sometimes the accident gave me a better result than what I was looking for, but yeah, you will never know what you will get when there's a fusion accident.
 

Idon

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For this reason I always saved before fusing in SMT IV lol
Sometimes the accident gave me a better result than what I was looking for, but yeah, you will never know what you will get when there's a fusion accident.
Uh, she didn't get a fusion accident in the typical sense, she got the fusion accident where the accident was in human error lol.

I don't even think fusion accidents are cruel enough enough give a demon just one skill lol.
 

PSIGuy

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Well, fusion error or human error, it's good practice to save before fusing regardless.
 

Cutie Gwen

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For this reason I always saved before fusing in SMT IV lol
Sometimes the accident gave me a better result than what I was looking for, but yeah, you will never know what you will get when there's a fusion accident.
As mentioned by Idon, it was a **** up on my end, though I did get a fusion accident and got Yo****sune a good 6 levels before I would have been able to summon them regularly.
 

SNEKeater

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Uh, she didn't get a fusion accident in the typical sense, she got the fusion accident where the accident was in human error lol.

I don't even think fusion accidents are cruel enough enough give a demon just one skill lol.
As mentioned by Idon, it was a **** up on my end, though I did get a fusion accident and got Yo****sune a good 6 levels before I would have been able to summon them regularly.
****, reading your post again and I don't know how I missed this. I guess I'm already senile
 

amageish

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https://personacentral.com/shin-megami-tensei-v-release-first-quarter-2021/
Sega's planned release for the fiscal year ending March 2021 include Shin Megami Tensei V, which means we might see the game early next year. Two SMT games on Switch before the end of 2021 bodes very well for SMT in Smash, I think.
The fact Nocturne was announced as "Spring 2021" makes me wonder if they are going to release SMTV in English before they release Nocturne HD in English? As otherwise it seems likely the two games would launch within weeks of each other?

It'd be weird, but not the weirdest thing ATLUS has done in terms of localization times...
 

Cutie Gwen

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The fact Nocturne was announced as "Spring 2021" makes me wonder if they are going to release SMTV in English before they release Nocturne HD in English? As otherwise it seems likely the two games would launch within weeks of each other?

It'd be weird, but not the weirdest thing ATLUS has done in terms of localization times...
I doubt it, Atlus games typically take a while to localize but Nintendo's funding probably changed that for V
 

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https://personacentral.com/shin-megami-tensei-v-release-first-quarter-2021/
Sega's planned release for the fiscal year ending March 2021 include Shin Megami Tensei V, which means we might see the game early next year. Two SMT games on Switch before the end of 2021 bodes very well for SMT in Smash, I think.
(Insert Hawkeye gif here)

SMTV coming out early next year would be a dream come true. After getting nothing for 3 years, I find it hard to believe it will be out in under a year, but I’d love to be proven wrong.
 

amageish

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I doubt it, Atlus games typically take a while to localize but Nintendo's funding probably changed that for V
Yeah, I'm sure Nintendo (and maybe SEGA?) is helping out with SMTV coming out at the same time worldwide.

It just strikes me as weird that Nocturne is listed for "Spring 2021" in English if V comes out before March... given how March is when Spring begins...
 

snowgolem

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I would LOVE to see the protagonist from SMT V in Smash.
I agree. I prefer their design over any other SMT protagonist, and would love to see their inclusion. It would be a lot more fun than Joker, imo.
 

Idon

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Personally, I'm excited to see how they fuse the design of the androgynous and pretty design of the protagonist with the hulking 7 foot tall red glowy demon thing.
 

Matadormon

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Am I the only one that has a feeling that Atlus will use Smash Ultimate as promotion material to promote SMT V? Like what happened with DQ11?
 

SNEKeater

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Am I the only one that has a feeling that Atlus will use Smash Ultimate as promotion material to promote SMT V? Like what happened with DQ11?
I'd be surprised if SMTV doesn't get at least a spirit event in the future.
Same for No More Heroes 3, for example.
 

ThatShadowLink

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Yeah Spirit Event is guaranteed if there's no DLC. Honestly surprised it's taken so long for a Jack Frost Mii Costume at least.
 

snowgolem

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I don’t think it’s guaranteed. Remember that some spirit events are literally just a color. If it was first party, yes, they’d definitely be getting a spirit event. But it’s not first party. And I know Atlus isn’t hard to work with, since we already got Joker, but if Sakurai just thinks it isn’t important enough (or even more likely, another game that hasn’t been announced yet gets released around the same time as SMTV), then he’ll just change it to something else.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I do think it isn’t a lock in any way either.
 

ThatShadowLink

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There was a spirit event for Daemon ex Machina, which is a waaaaay lower key release than SMT. I think Shin Megami Tensei V, another Nintendo Switch exclusive game with Nintendo backing, would most likely get one. I understand not being 100% because you never know, and not wanting to be let down, though.
 

SNEKeater

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Yeah. If Daemon X Machina got a spirit event I don't see why SMTV wouldn't. Atlus and Nintendo are clearly trying to push the game, so if we don't get a SMT rep, I'd be surprised if we don't get at least a spirit event, which would be better than nothing. Maybe a Mii Costume?
 

snowgolem

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Fair enough. I just feel it’s very possible some other game could get released that month and overshadow it. But you’re right, it definitely seems like they really want to push this game. I won’t be surprised if a spirit event happens, but it would be a pleasant surprise to see a Mii or Fighter.
 

PSIGuy

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Spirit events don't have to take place super close to a game launch, and there's no sense not having one just because other games exist. We'll definitely see some SMT content in Smash whether it's minor or major, I think - two major releases over the next 12 months is a bit hard to ignore.
I do wonder if they'd reveal content around the JP release date of Nocturne HD or withhold it until it's out everywhere, though.

The more I think about it, the more reasons for having SMTV's protag + Demi-fiend as a Hero-style inclusion appear. One's got the reputation as the 'quintessential' SMT game - 4 out of 5 songs in the 25th anniversary "favorite SMT song" poll (also doubles as an audio reference for what your 10~30 stage songs would be) were Nocturne songs. The other is gathering some real interest between its long development silences and sudden trailer - it'd be in Nintendo and Sega's interests to give it as much attention as possible and keep that momentum going. And with SMTV taking many cues from Nocturne, it's not just fanwank that they could fight similarly. There's been plenty of longstanding reasons why SMT in Smash is a good fit like most entries being available or originally released on Nintendo systems but now there's so many relevant ones - reasons that would come up in business meetings - on top of that.
 
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I’m more a Demi-fiend guy myself, but I’d take the SMTV protag in a heartbeat as long as they bring some demons with them.

I love Joker, I love Arsene’s design, but the fact that Arsene is the only persona to be incorporated into the moveset (and kind of lazily incorporated at that) is a tad disappointing. All I’m saying is, if we get an SMT character I hope we see Jack Frost and Pixie as part of the moveset, at the very least.

...And while I know it would never happen, if Seth could show up in some way that’d be extra amazing. He’s my favorite demon in the series, designwise. Here’s a discussion topic: What are some of your favorites?
 
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amageish

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A spirit event seems like a decently safe bet. ATLUS being in this game without Jack Frost is too suspicious to not feel like they're waiting for something, even if it's just a promotional spirit event.

I’m more a Demi-fiend guy myself, but I’d take the SMTV protag in a heartbeat as long as they bring some demons with them.

I love Joker, I love Arsene’s design, but the fact that Arsene is the only persona to be incorporated into the moveset (and kind of lazily incorporated at that) is a tad disappointing. All I’m saying is, if we get an SMT character I hope we see Jack Frost and Pixie as part of the moveset, at the very least.

...And while I know it would never happen, if Seth could show up in some way that’d be extra amazing. He’s my favorite demon in the series, designwise. Here’s a discussion topic: What are some of your favorites?
Demon summoning is definitely my ideal moveset as well. We still don't have a real "summoner" character in Smash (I guess maybe Duck Hunt if you stretch the definition?) and it'd be really nice to see that archetype be filled... That said, if we did get a character with some sort of status effect mechanic instead, then I'd still expect Jack Frost and Pixie to take the role of Morgana/Slime by turning up for taunts.

As for personal favourite demons, I tend to like the odd ones out - the random picks that make you go "Wait, this is a demon in this franchise?". You know, like the one time Audrey from Little Shop of Horrors casually got to be in a game. Of more traditional designs, Thunderbird and Persephone are two of my favourites.
 

PK-remling Fire

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I’m more a Demi-fiend guy myself, but I’d take the SMTV protag in a heartbeat as long as they bring some demons with them.

I love Joker, I love Arsene’s design, but the fact that Arsene is the only persona to be incorporated into the moveset (and kind of lazily incorporated at that) is a tad disappointing. All I’m saying is, if we get an SMT character I hope we see Jack Frost and Pixie as part of the moveset, at the very least.

...And while I know it would never happen, if Seth could show up in some way that’d be extra amazing. He’s my favorite demon in the series, designwise. Here’s a discussion topic: What are some of your favorites?
imo if demon summoning is a core part of the moveset, one of the summons has to be Beelzebub, he's very iconic as an endgame demon and has an amazing design (and he's one of my all-time favorite demons).
Some of my other favorites are Samael, Baal, Baphomet, Belial, Mother Harlot, Thor, and Chernobog
 

PSIGuy

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I think a lot depends on what the context for each demon as part of the moveset is going to be. If a demon can do multiple things in a moveset then it'll probably need to follow you around so smaller, identifiable demons like Jack Frost, Pixie, Archangel etc would be used. Bigger demons would probably end up limited to certain actions like Cerberus 'fetching' opponents for a tether grab or Grimekhala appearing to reflect physical attacks as a counter.
Anything that doesn't appear in the moveset can hopefully still appear as part of the stage, which is why I'm rooting for the Cathedral of Shadows. The King of Fighters stage had 20 characters appear as cameos, after all.
 

SNEKeater

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I think a lot depends on what the context for each demon as part of the moveset is going to be. If a demon can do multiple things in a moveset then it'll probably need to follow you around so smaller, identifiable demons like Jack Frost, Pixie, Archangel etc would be used. Bigger demons would probably end up limited to certain actions like Cerberus 'fetching' opponents for a tether grab or Grimekhala appearing to reflect physical attacks as a counter.
Anything that doesn't appear in the moveset can hopefully still appear as part of the stage, which is why I'm rooting for the Cathedral of Shadows. The King of Fighters stage had 20 characters appear as cameos, after all.
Yeah. For that reason I think Pixie & Jack Frost would be almost a guarantee to appear. Pixie to provide healing, maybe buff and debuff spells? Jack Frost as the elemental magic of use for the SMT character, and then I see at least 1 more demon, maybe 2. I could see the third demon being a bigger one in size, to fill the... role? of having an imposing/badass demon (because Pixie and Jack Frost for sure aren't that lol)
For that slot I could see Oni, for example.

I could see Angel doing Pixie's work as well, and I personally like her more, but I guess they would choose Pixie instead.
 

PK-remling Fire

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We know that Jack Frost and Pixie are likely a given, and other popular picks like Ose, Mothman, and Girimehkhala have a good chance too. Though I'd love to see at least one strange/unexpected demon thrown in, maybe one with a design that really exemplifies the weirdness of SMT demons.
 

PSIGuy

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I could see them having lots of demons in the swappable role with limited abilities. So 6 or 7 total (covering each Nocturne element, with or without Phys) with 3 abilities each (physical attack, spell, buff) and then a few tied to specific moves/animations like grabs or parries/shield. Compared to Arsene who I think has a unique animation for each of Joker's attacks they're quite shallow, which I think helps balance out the workload. Also places greater emphasis on the player to know what works with what. Would be nice if they brought elemental weaknesses and strengths with them, too. Whack/Thwack and Eiha/Eigaon might bounce off Beelzebub but instantly kill Metatron, something like that. Demons being defeatable and not being summonable for a decent time would be nice - keep players on their toes.

On that note, wow, I never realized how stacked Joker's presentation in Smash was compared to every other DLC fighter. Every Persona 5 party member has multiple winquotes, Joker himself has multiple special conditions for his victory screen, etc.

EDIT: Secondhand prices for SMT games have gone way up recently. Guess people are trying to get into the series - a good omen for SMTV's success I think.
 
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Idon

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I've been thinking about making a new Shin Megami Tensei moveset. Maybe Demi-fiend. Wanna try to base it around buffing and danger management to try and reflect the game.
thumbs up.gif


You got my full blessing.
I enjoyed your Flynn moveset with all those drawings last year too, so I'd be quite excited to see that.

SIDE NOTE!
HOLY **** GUYS, WE GOT DANTE BACK.
featuring-dante-png-4.png
 
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