Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
raz, I've said this before, u don't grab enough my mans. some situations u choose to attack when a grab would have been legit.
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(」・ω・)」 MARS la Marf in Smash 4 (／・ω・)／
- Thread starter Virgilijus
- Start date
NH Cody
Smash Champion
yall should analyze one of my matches 
Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
where?
I just went to the video subforum and didn't see anything.yall should analyze one of my matches
NH Cody
Smash Champion
Starting at 2:29:10
ScareMl
Smash Journeyman
quest, we have a video subforum for a reason. the social thread is to socialize -_-
NH Cody
Smash Champion
lol wow. These used to be called "general discussion" threads xD. People other than myself have posted vids and done real tactical discussion here before. It really isn't that big a deal...but fine I'll post in the video forum next time to make you happy...
Idk
We were given a special subforum specifically for this purpose. If people want to talk about MUs and contribute and be social and w/e, that's what we do here. If you want advice on a video, an analysis, etc, that's exactly what the subforum is for. I personally look at every match that is posted there, and respond to a lot of them. Things I'm not positive about I talk to Ramin, Mike, Nike, etc depending on who I think has the best insight into that MU/situation and bug them until they post.
I mean, if we have the subforum for that specific reason, and people routinely respond to things posted there, there's no reason not to use it.
If we had a subforum for MUs, I'd think that I'd only talk about MUs there.
We were given a special subforum specifically for this purpose. If people want to talk about MUs and contribute and be social and w/e, that's what we do here. If you want advice on a video, an analysis, etc, that's exactly what the subforum is for. I personally look at every match that is posted there, and respond to a lot of them. Things I'm not positive about I talk to Ramin, Mike, Nike, etc depending on who I think has the best insight into that MU/situation and bug them until they post.
I mean, if we have the subforum for that specific reason, and people routinely respond to things posted there, there's no reason not to use it.
If we had a subforum for MUs, I'd think that I'd only talk about MUs there.
Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
quest, it's not that you can't post vids here its just that its very possible it may get over looked (like it did) if you post it here. I know I personally don't regurally check this thread so if you'd like help on a vid its better to post it in the video forum so people can notice/find it easier.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
okay, lo siento fellas, I posted it in the video forum. IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN I PROMISE. lol.
Nike.
Smash Hero
Like, I don't really care. I just know if you want help, especially done in any kind of timely manner, that the best bet really is the video forum. It doesn't make a difference to me in any way, so w/e. I'll go look at your stuff tonight after I'm done with Kel's which I'll get to in just about an hour.
You're a jerk.
Dogg/Naoki/Suzaku
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 183
Raziek, against DK you should chase a bit more offstage. Your stage control is really good but when losing the percent battle (DK being 50% higher than Marth), you should apply more pressure offstage.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
NH Cody
Smash Champion
I don't get it. Do you have a problem with me posting my videos in the video forum? You sure led me to believe that you wanted me to do that :/
clowsui
Smash Legend
That post has nothing to do with your video thing LOL
he says why because there's never that many people looking at Marth boards usually
he says why because there's never that many people looking at Marth boards usually
NH Cody
Smash Champion
oh okay. I misconstrued completely.
sorry xD. I'm tired.
how's life clowsui
sorry xD. I'm tired.
how's life clowsui
Kite0692
Smash Journeyman
Top 5 marth anyone? whole world and in order please lol.
ぱみゅ
❤ ~
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2008
- Messages
- 10,010
- Location
- Under your skirt
- NNID
- kyo.pamyu.pamyu
- 3DS FC
- 4785-5700-5699
- Switch FC
- SW 3264 5694 6605
Kel
Smash Master
Can someone explain to me how pedogrip vs the psychic brats works? This seems to be one of those matchups that no one talks about because it's just assumed that Marth will win. However, in case I come upon a Ness or Lucas in tournament, I would like to be able to beat them.
Am I able to just hold down shield and mash A? I've heard that doesn't work. Also, I see Nesses and Lucases trying to do something when they break out like smash DI that makes them travel farther away from Marth to where he has to dash.
At any rate, could someone explain to me how/ why this works and what the Ness/ Lucas' options are? I've read the grab release thread a while ago, so I know about how Marth can frame trap characters like Lucario with Dtilt, but I'm specifically talking about how to optimally perform the pedogrip.
Am I able to just hold down shield and mash A? I've heard that doesn't work. Also, I see Nesses and Lucases trying to do something when they break out like smash DI that makes them travel farther away from Marth to where he has to dash.
At any rate, could someone explain to me how/ why this works and what the Ness/ Lucas' options are? I've read the grab release thread a while ago, so I know about how Marth can frame trap characters like Lucario with Dtilt, but I'm specifically talking about how to optimally perform the pedogrip.
If they mash out during your pummel animation a different course of action occurs (i.e. I think they break further away from you or closer to you?), although I don't have the frames to back this, Lucas seems to break out of the regrab pretty easily.
You have air releases on the brats to regrab (IIRC)/dair, so so do that if they're above 50-60% and you have true tech skill.
You have air releases on the brats to regrab (IIRC)/dair, so so do that if they're above 50-60% and you have true tech skill.
There's three different grab breaks- air, ground, and pummel. Air releases are obvious enough. Ground and pummel breaks look similar the distance being the differing factor. Now, to answer your actual question
When you release Ness, if he ground breaks you can hold shield and just mash a and you will get the regrab for free. If he pummel breaks, you need to move forward by the smallest amount you can and regrab.
Lucas releases further than ness does. Lucas's normal release to about as far as ness's pummel release. When Lucas pummel releases you need to move forward a bit to get the regrab.
On air release be both of them you have fair, Nair, shaya mentioned dair probably DB, if dair works then uair probably works as well. Then of course at high percents you do grounded release to dsmash
When you release Ness, if he ground breaks you can hold shield and just mash a and you will get the regrab for free. If he pummel breaks, you need to move forward by the smallest amount you can and regrab.
Lucas releases further than ness does. Lucas's normal release to about as far as ness's pummel release. When Lucas pummel releases you need to move forward a bit to get the regrab.
On air release be both of them you have fair, Nair, shaya mentioned dair probably DB, if dair works then uair probably works as well. Then of course at high percents you do grounded release to dsmash
Kel
Smash Master
So pretty much you always need to move forward because they should always be pummel-breaking. It's not guaranteed that they will ground release normally because they could just hold jump and prevent the regrab.
Interesting.
I know about the pummel release to dsmash, but Dair would be awesome if it works out of air release. That would probably be a better option since they have such bad recovery anyway.
In addition to Squirtle, the brats, and the frame trap against Lucario when he pummel breaks, am I missing any grab shennanigan stuff?
Interesting.
I know about the pummel release to dsmash, but Dair would be awesome if it works out of air release. That would probably be a better option since they have such bad recovery anyway.
In addition to Squirtle, the brats, and the frame trap against Lucario when he pummel breaks, am I missing any grab shennanigan stuff?
They can't really control which break they getbetween the two since they'll be mashing out. If anything it's more likely that you can control which release they get by changing how quickly you are pummeling them.
Dair is definitely guaranteed on ness and I'm 99% sure on Lucas as well.
The dtilt trap is decent on most characters, as long as you don't frame trap yourself like vs pit, it's just especially good vs Lucario since his quickest forward move is grab. Vs everyone though, it's still just a decently strong mix-up based on a frame trap.
Edit: just reread what you said, yeah there's a lot more in terms of air release stuff. You can fair or DB most of the cat if they air release (see snake and DDD), uair Kirby, fair game and watch, all the mk stuff, all the wario stuff, fair and dash attack on Diddy, and so forth.
Dair is definitely guaranteed on ness and I'm 99% sure on Lucas as well.
The dtilt trap is decent on most characters, as long as you don't frame trap yourself like vs pit, it's just especially good vs Lucario since his quickest forward move is grab. Vs everyone though, it's still just a decently strong mix-up based on a frame trap.
Edit: just reread what you said, yeah there's a lot more in terms of air release stuff. You can fair or DB most of the cat if they air release (see snake and DDD), uair Kirby, fair game and watch, all the mk stuff, all the wario stuff, fair and dash attack on Diddy, and so forth.
Kel
Smash Master
I remember M2K and me testing pummel breaking at my place before and we came to the conclusion that if you press jump or up (with tap jump on) at all after the first 30 frames or so that you will air release. If someone is mashing and you don't pummel them when they've hit the input amount, they will air release. That's why Diddy/ Snake/ Dedede air release at all; the opponent hit up or jump.
I wish Marth had more awesome grab stuff like MK dair or squirtle GR Fsmash.
I wish Marth had more awesome grab stuff like MK dair or squirtle GR Fsmash.
I hate phones. Made me lose a huge post. Instead, I'll summarize now that I'm home.
Character height, pummel speed, and jump input are what determine ground/air release.
Assume no jump input, no pummeling:
Opponent's feet on ground, ground release
Opponent's feet in the air, air release
Assume jump input, no pummeling:
Opponent's feet on ground, air release
Opponent's feet in the air, air release
Assume no jump input, pummels, fast pummel speed (Marth, Wolf, etc):
Opponent's feet on ground, ground release
Opponent's feet in the air, ground release
Assume no jump input, pummels, slow pummel speed (MK, etc):
Opponent's feet on ground, ground release
Opponent's feet in the air, air release if they make the last input necessary to break out inbetween pummels (so if you're someone with a quick pummel speed, you can intentionally pummel slower to try to force an air release while pummeling, but they can time their mashing to you. Same principle applies to pummels and move refreshing; slow pummels or quick pummels intentionally slowed down mean one move refreshed for each pummel. Quick pummels as quickly as possible mean only one move refreshed no matter how many pummels done.
Assume jump input, pummels, fast pummel speed (Marth, Wolf, etc):
Opponent's feet on ground, ground release
Opponent's feet in the air, ground release
Assume jump input, pummels, slow pummel speed (MK, etc) or quick pummel speed intentionally slowed down:
Opponent's feet on ground, air release if they make the last input necessary to break out between pummels
Opponent's feet in the air, air release if they make the last input necessary to break out between pummels.
SO, POINT OF ALL THAT IS:
If you grab someone you have an aerial release follow-up on (Snake, DDD, Diddy, Falco, almost the entire cast basically) with their feet touching the ground, if you hear them mashing, you can stop pummeling and get your follow-up since they likely hit a jump input in their mashing. If they're being careful about their inputs, then just throw and react since they're in a terrible situation and need to act first.
Reflex says a character w/ their feet on the ground (them being grabbed ofc) will only air release if they make a jump input between frames 19ish to 40somethingish
I just can't remember the frame window for sure.
/short version.
ScareMl
Smash Journeyman
ground/pummel to f-smash works as well on ness/lucas iirc
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
It does.
Kel
Smash Master
Yeah I know if they are mashing that you get to air release due to them hitting jump. My point was that you cannot force someone to air release with their feet on the ground if they do not hit jump.
Likewise, a Lucas could hit jump on purpose to air release and avoid being regrabbed if the Marth does NOT pummel the lucas. This is why I broke it down to you essentially having to move forward after every pummel release. If you don't pummel release, the Lucas will air release (assuming they dont want to be regrabbed and hit jump).
I know the basics of Smash pretty well, I just need to know Marth-specific stuff. I would like to avoid embarassing losses if at all possible.
Likewise, a Lucas could hit jump on purpose to air release and avoid being regrabbed if the Marth does NOT pummel the lucas. This is why I broke it down to you essentially having to move forward after every pummel release. If you don't pummel release, the Lucas will air release (assuming they dont want to be regrabbed and hit jump).
I know the basics of Smash pretty well, I just need to know Marth-specific stuff. I would like to avoid embarassing losses if at all possible.
Down tilt spacing is good against both characters who both usually start off with aerials when trying to outspace Marth
Zano
Smash Master
zano lost to ness
ScareMl
Smash Journeyman
marth-ness MU down from 90-10 to 50-50 now