- † King DeDeDe's MetaGame Discussion † -

[sMexy-Blu]

- † King DeDeDe's MetaknightGame Discussion † -​

​

As you all might know since the last couple of months our Penguin hasn't had much improvement into his play style, If we don't do something good players will eventually be able to find new ways to get around DeDeDe making certain matchups harder and he'll probably lose his spot as 4th best character. The point of this thread is to improve King DeDeDe's Metagame and find useful info or techs for DeDeDe players to abuse and add to there gameplay.

Talk about, Glitches, AT's, Effective approaches, Strategies, infinites, combos, counterpicks, Uses for an specific move, stages, matchups, or any discovery that would help improving King DeDeDe's metagame.

Share all your DeDeDe knowledge here.

Spoiler

Thanks to CRASHiC for the picture

Discuss.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Inhale is way too good. We need to experiment some more with Inhale gimps, tricks, etc.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Inhale has a lot of uses, It has a little push effect at the beginning, that causes a stage spike sometimes and can screw up some recovery's (lol Ike), it can cause the fall through stage glitch, it has little SA frames at the beginning so its relative safe to use it, DeDecide and Regispike are too good in changing the balance in a match but if you abuse them you'll most likely suicide of get punished.

And the most useful of all, Inhale breaks any aggressive approach into tiny bits of fail, I don't know how many times my opponent tries to approach me and gets caught up on my Inhale.

Inhale is mainly a Defensive move IMO, It shouldn't be used as an attack, it should be used to protect yourself from the enemy and give you time to breath lol

Plus with B-reversal it adds mindgames. (lol)

 

[Taeran]

I'm frequently play a aggressive MK, and I play matches where all three kills are inhale. He knocks me off, attempts to gimp me, I D3cide. Sudden Death is really easy with ftilt.

A way to gimp with inhale is to DI back to the stage, then inhale as you fly by the edge. Spit under the stage, and recover. They lose a stock.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I'm frequently play a aggressive MK, and I play matches where all three kills are inhale. He knocks me off, attempts to gimp me, I D3cide. Sudden Death is really easy with ftilt.

A way to gimp with inhale is to DI back to the stage, then inhale as you fly by the edge. Spit under the stage, and recover. They lose a stock.

Thats called Regi Spike, I use this versus my friends who don't know how to get out of the Inhale fast (mash your controler).

But if you try this versus someone who knows how to get out of the Inhale fast you'll probably get Footstooled or gimped, if you will.

 

[KENYU]

reverse inhale is a good alternate if your opponent catches on to your RAR-bairs, or fastfall bairs, and tries to shield grab them

 

[RATED]

inhale is such a great move, even if I love to inhale is not very often that I ddside. but I use sometimes shorthop to inhale , Dair to inhale , run away ( like u were to do a waddle dee toss) and instead of it I use a inhale since they try to get in u bcuz u will get the lag of waddle dee toss.(I vary from those). wavebounced reversal B .

 

[Vayseth]

run around, shield grab a lot, and bair when people are jumping instead of on the ground.

10truthsx10

 

[Commander_Beef]

I think you already found this out smexy-blu, but his Jab Lock adds some extra damage if you get the timing right with the jab's ending frames, then you can do Dtilit, a grab, or something! There is a advanced technique for you! XD

 

[CRASHiC]

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I think you already found this out smexy-blu, but his Jab Lock adds some extra damage if you get the timing right with the jab's ending frames, then you can do Dtilit, a grab, or something! There is a advanced technique for you! XD

I didn't discover that, its an application for any character's Jab. People like Ike, Link, Mario, Luigi & DeDeDe can do this to its best.

 

[Vayseth]

Jab locks are widely considered an AT. But do we have a reliable set up into it? I know Link can use it since his boomerang almost ALWAYS sets up the opponent for it but I dno if D3 has a reliable set up for it.

If we do, vids plox.

 

[CRASHiC]

I for one am very worried about my little penguin. Will he ever progress? Because if not, players will find ways around him, and it will become incredibly hard to win matches against veterans unless we find new ways to evolve our penguin.

 

[nineninetyone]

Is it just me, or does D3's SH-RAR-FAIR to the RIGHT consistently lag more than the SH-RAR-FAIR to the LEFT? I've tried many times and I can't cancel the bounce (unless I full-hop, of course). But yeah, no problem doing it to the left side. Give it a shot, and let me know.

P.S. Input: Run, SH (x), DI back (analog), FAIR (c-stick).

 

[Vayseth]

I'm not so sure about that. I'm almost positive it doesn't. Try changing your controller out and see if it still does it.

Anyway, I was doing some testing last night against the ICs and I found out that fair to dair instantly canceled is AMAZING in that match up. I also realized you can do the same thing with bair and if you mix up when you're going to do it, it makes the IC player go nuts.

fair->dair
fair->land
fair-> inhale

You can replace all of these with bair and they'll also work and be lagless. Sometimes if you jump and fair over the ICs and go to jump for the dair it will footstool them and they'll get split up by the dair.

If there are platforms, I don't think this match up is so bad with this. It's TOTAL mindgames for an IC player. It isn't as spammable against bigger characters but I've noticed against smaller characters it can be an effective mind game.

EDIT: in case you were wondering, I meant this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crh1VYsCQKY

Also, I am vaguely interested in the jab lock. Anyone have any data or videos with the jab lock? I think the only useful application would be using it on the 12 non'chaingrabbable characters as a mix up for the tech chase. If they stand there OTG knowing you're waiting to grab, run up and jab lock them instead of going for a grab! I dno if it would work, but I was just thinking about it this morning.

 

[NeonSonic]

I tried some jab locks with D3... They kind of fail o.o
Well, at least in comparison to other characters, like Ike, anyway.

 

[CRASHiC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crh1...deos for that. Bill o riley and Aesop Rock xD

 

[lain]

I'm not so sure about that. I'm almost positive it doesn't. Try changing your controller out and see if it still does it.

Anyway, I was doing some testing last night against the ICs and I found out that fair to dair instantly canceled is AMAZING in that match up. I also realized you can do the same thing with bair and if you mix up when you're going to do it, it makes the IC player go nuts.

fair->dair
fair->land
fair-> inhale

You can replace all of these with bair and they'll also work and be lagless. Sometimes if you jump and fair over the ICs and go to jump for the dair it will footstool them and they'll get split up by the dair.

If there are platforms, I don't think this match up is so bad with this. It's TOTAL mindgames for an IC player. It isn't as spammable against bigger characters but I've noticed against smaller characters it can be an effective mind game.

EDIT: in case you were wondering, I meant this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crh1VYsCQKY

Also, I am vaguely interested in the jab lock. Anyone have any data or videos with the jab lock? I think the only useful application would be using it on the 12 non'chaingrabbable characters as a mix up for the tech chase. If they stand there OTG knowing you're waiting to grab, run up and jab lock them instead of going for a grab! I dno if it would work, but I was just thinking about it this morning.

We'll see about that Vayseth >:D

 

[Tero.]

I'm too lazy to read everything at the moment so im just going to write

"run and shieldgrab"

*subscribes*

 

[Vayseth]

Little things we need to test / Information we need to gather


Whats King DeDeDe's best move to DI with? (Bair, Nair or Dair?)

• 
  [*]In my opinion, dair is the best to DI with but I also find myself DIing with fair and bair a lot as well. More fair than bair. dair is good because it nearly stops all momentum like Toon Link's dair. dair itself is HEAVY and therefore can stop a lot of upward momentum. Off the sides, I wouldn't suggest using dair. Fair is probably the best bet followed by jumps IMMEDIATELY.

Setups for Dtilt.

• 
  [*]SH fair to dair to Dtilt
  [*]Ftilt to Dtilt
  [*]Down throw to Dtilt
  [*]SH fair to Dtilt
  [*]Inhale to Dtilt
  [*]Fsmash to Dtilt
  [*]Jab, Jab, Dtilt
  [*]In short, bait them with a seemingly laggy attack into getting hit into it

Is Ftilt spam effective against some characters and others not?

• 
  [*]I feel like it has it's uses but a punish due to power shielding makes this move not very spammable. I like to use it on characters to like to constantly SH aerials like G+W, MK, Wolf, etc.

List of projectiles that Ftilt stops?

• 
  [*]... ... .....a lot XD

Highest priority move DeDeDe has?

• 
  [*]Grab, by far. It beats so many things and has super armor. Win? I think so.
  [*]Bair would be the second obvious choice since it not only beat stuff but usually stays out longer than most things to at least clash/trade hits.

DeDeDe's frame data.

• 
  [*]I got nothing...

List of characters that can outcamp DeDeDe.

• 
  [*]R.O.B.
  [*]Falco
  [*]Metaknight
  [*]Diddy and ICs have the tools to, but I doubt they would even try to camp Dedede.
  [*]Link, Toon Link and Pit (amongst others) probably could do a good job of it, but I don't think at a high level.

Any practical use for RJCUS?

• 
  [*]Not that I have seen =(

My answers are embedded in the quote.

 

[Jupz]

nice work vayseth and good contributions

but how can a metaknight outcamp a d3 when he dosent have a projectile? they would just be there until one of them approached.

 

[Lock-On]

Well depending on the rules of a specific match (i.e Items on or off in D3's case) you might consider Goon Farming. Personally i dont use it because its hard to do on the fly, but it does work and can really help you out in a jam..

Heres a vid just in case : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31CfqAlpAfY

 

[CRASHiC]

How can Metaknight camp?

 

[Coney]

With a tent, mother****er. That ***** can camp.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I think he means planking when he said Meta Knight lol

I'm going to test which projectiles does Ftilt stop later on, when I get back from school.

 

[Tero.]

Whats King DeDeDe's best move to DI with? (Bair, Nair or Dair?)

*
* In my opinion, dair is the best to DI with but I also find myself DIing with fair and bair a lot as well. More fair than bair. dair is good because it nearly stops all momentum like Toon Link's dair. dair itself is HEAVY and therefore can stop a lot of upward momentum. Off the sides, I wouldn't suggest using dair. Fair is probably the best bet followed by jumps IMMEDIATELY.

You are talking momentum canceling? Nair + FF is the best thing to do.

Also camping =/= projectile spam
camping can also be playing really defensive and MK is **** at playing defensive.

 

[nineninetyone]

Whats King DeDeDe's best move to DI with?

I've tested it several times and so far, BAIR for horizontal KB, and DAIR for vertical KB. I used to use FAIR thinking it would have some kind of momentum canceling properties, but it doesn't come out in time. And from what I've witnessed in replays, top-level D3 players use the BAIR as well. I'm want to know what their button input is exactly.

Is Ftilt spam effective against some characters and others not?

Ness, Lucas, Kirby are some obvious ones. I'm curious to know whether this out-ranges Snake's FTILT, and also if his DTILT has priority over Kirby's DATTACK.

DeDeDe's frame data.

Forward Tilt: 12
Up Tilt: Forward 12
Down Tilt: 7
Dash Attack: 26

Up Smash: 20
Down Smash: 14
Forward Smash: 43

Forward B: 18
Neutral B: 17
Down B: 29
Up B:???

Forward Air: 16
Back Air: 6
Down Air: 9
Up Air: 10
Neutral Air: 7

(REF: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202204)

 

[TheGungnir]

I'm not sure if this is true, but i think Dedede's Dtilt has some of the best prio of his moves. I know that Ftilt, and Bair both don't go through Metaknight's side B, but his Dtilt does. Might just be hit boxes not sure

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Ftilt has a very long range so its good at stopping projectiles instead of dodging them sometimes.

I tested which projectiles Ftilt stops (or outpriorize) soo here are the results:

Fireball (Both Mario's and Luigi's)
Boomerang (Both Link's and TL's)
Hero's Bow (Both Link's and TL's)
Uncharged Shot (Samus)
Strong Missile (Samus)
Weak Missile (Samus)
Palutena's Bow (Pit)
Ice blocks (ICs)
Thunder Jolt (Pikachu)
Razor leaf (Ivysor)
Aura sphere (Uncharged and Charged when he has early damage)

 

[Vayseth]

Wait, any Aura sphere?

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Yes, I tested it with charged and uncharged DeDeDe stopped both.

EDIT: I forgot that Lucario gets stronger when he has more damage I re-tested it and this time you cant stop the charged one (he has to be at like 100% though) lol

 

[CRASHiC]

Hmmm. . . .
May have something here.
A chain grab on metaknight against a wall.
Down throw, double jab (first one will miss), then grab and repeat.

Someone with better testing skills please test this.
Two notes, if it does work, goes to 170, and can't be done from 0.

 

[Lock-On]

Hmmm. . . .
May have something here.
A chain grab on metaknight against a wall.
Down throw, double jab (first one will miss), then grab and repeat.

Someone with better testing skills please test this.
Two notes, if it does work, goes to 170, and can't be done from 0.

Been testing this for about a hour (when it was posted) it does work but you really need to time the double jab well and grab immediately. Also once hes past a certain HP (160 i found) the jab creates too much knockback to continue the lock. But if you can get him to 160 its an easy finish for D3. on;y thing i find is that if you grab prematurely (ie dont finish 2 jabs) your grab button (in my case X) will become a button for jabbing...which throws off my timing sometimes..other than that...

good find CRASHIC

 

[Jupz]

nice!! does this work on other non chaingrabble characters too?

 

[Taeran]

Probably, I wouldn't see why not.

 

[Jupz]

wow this is great! nice find

 

[CRASHiC]

nice!! does this work on other non chaingrabble characters too?

I made it for non-chaingrabable charecters.

Also, HOLY HELL BAIR CAUSES TRIPS.

 

[Bwa]

After a jab lock, you can't roll ?

So, it can be a free f smash, or a dash attack ?

Dtilt has priority over Kirby's Dash Attack?

It stops always his dash attack, and it can break it with a good timing I think

And, what's RJCUS plz?

 

[Vayseth]

Vidz or it didn't happen, you know the rules XD

The thing about this is it's only in a wall right? The opponent can tech, which means it isn't an infinite.

 

[Bwa]

The thing about this is it's only in a wall right? The opponent can tech, which means it isn't an infinite.

This is why you must double jab, but IDK if it comes out enough fast for break tech...

Sorry for my ridiculous english x)