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Oz o:
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  • I'm getting more and more swayed into thinking, Kazuya is a legitimately damn good character. The better you get with him, the more his weaknesses start becoming less noticeable. Even mobility and things like projectiles are less of an issue through Crouch Dash. He feels a lot faster and "smaller", and then there's things like perfectly doing EWGF and the reflector (double dash attack). His recovery and disadvantage become a lot more managable when you learn to use them.
    fast paced game with low lag aerials, mobility and other defensive moves

    smash community:
    great, let's use it to be play even more defensive
    xzx
    xzx
    Fast paced engine, yeah absolutely, but gameplay wise? No. Smash 4 and Ultimate are prime examples of how overly-defensive mechanics slow down the gameplay.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    People always ended up in that conclusion, though I don't see how it's any different than Brawl. Do they just become more defensive and people realise it later?
    S
    StoicPhantom
    There's probably multiple factors at play and not all of them are very intuitive. The thing about Melee is that it has always gone in cycles of being offensive and defensive over its life, Hungrybox's era being a prime example of it being more defensive. I think a large part of that can probably be contributed to the playstyle preference of whichever celebrity that is currently dominating. Melee has some depth and that lends to their being a variety of viable playstyles.

    I don't think Smash 4 was as defensive as people say, but Bayonetta probably had a lot to do with making that game farily defensive towards the end of its run. I don't think that game had enough time to adapt before Ultimate came out to really see if it would swing back the other way. It seems to me that there was good balance among the top tiers, but a few of them and their players forced it to be more defensive than it could have been.

    I think where Ultimate went wrong is making the neutral game too simple and safe. In theory this should promote aggression, but in practice no one wants to be caught with a random aerial and taken for a ride in a disadvantage that has no real depth (and thus little counterplay). I think this causes a lot of hesitation and the incentive ends up being a situation where you just wait and bait with safe moves so that the other guy doesn't do the same to you. The low risk high reward gameplay leads to the probability being incredibly skewed and thus the meta is lots of movement with little activity somehow.
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    It's funny how it's always the bad wifi players that leave after the first match, but the actual good ones play you like 10 matches. Goes to say they have no ****ing clue how to actually play the game, and they're nothing without crappy lag.
    Banjo is a character I dropped a while ago, but he's still really hype in my eyes. He felt very creative, and like I had options to almost anything. He's deceptively quick on his feet, pretty heavy, solid killthrow, bury and now they buffed a couple of his kill options (which were already pretty strong).

    I never really understood this stigma that Banjo is supposed to play campy and boring. His grenade game is pretty badass, in the right hands.
    RealPokeFan11
    RealPokeFan11
    This. I haven't played smash in a while, due to my online expiring and my pro controller drifting downwards, but Banjo is so versatile and fun to play. People who only camp with him aren't playing him right.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    People shouldn't take bad wifi players as an example. They do the same with characters like Link, Samus, and e ven Zelda.
    I've created a stigma in my mind regarding defensive play. Defensive play doesn't have to be boring or "lame" in on itself. Watch a player like T3 Dom, and he makes Richter look really entertaining in spite of his defensive playstyle.

    Maybe I can achieve that with Zelda.
    The best Dragon Ball fan mangas are the ones they make Krillin the badass he deserves to be. Krillin is really the Steve Rogers of Dragon Ball.
    When I used Bowser in Brawl and Smash 4 (before the Uthrow patch), he actually required skill to use.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I see a lot of players getting away with doing like 3 moves the entire time, like Side B, Up B and Firebreath. These players would be far easier to deal with in any other game, but Ultimate rewards them for just being bad. I'm not saying you'll win tournaments like this, but it definitely rewards you for being dumb.
    Janx_uwu
    Janx_uwu
    Literally every character has two or three moves together can “get away with”, this is a universal thing in Ultimate. Characters gots good moves.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    And now that I do think about it, this happens to be one of those thoughts that holds me back from growing. It's a toxic mindset I have, and it's the thing I unconsciously hold on to, which in a way just ends up reaffirming your belief.
    I had a really good time playing offline today. One of the last sessions prior, I did really bad (with Kazuya, at least), and it really unmotivated me how practice wasn't paying off. Today was the polar opposite of that, and I had a good time even when I did lose.
    So you're telling me I can parry and tech stagespikes consistently but I literally can't tech a single floor tech.
    Anyone else find it awkward to FSmash with Kazuya during the dashes? He keeps doing the reflector dash attack. You have to reset the stick to neutral before doing it, but the timing is stricter than other characters.
    Doc Monocle is a funny guy.
    If you have trouble with the EWGF and you still happen to do Down Ftilt or things like DSmash, it has to do that you're not doing the full quarter circle motion. I used to have that issue a lot, a few days ago. I started focusing on doing the whole motion, and the rest comes more naturally, such as the timing. The timing of pressing the A button is basically doing it right after you start moving the stick, at least for me (maybe Joycons have to do with it).
    Still struggle to consistently do EGWF, even after a week. Sometimes I feel like I got it, but then I just find a new way to misinput it, or do one and then miss the other. I don't know after how much practice starts becoming less effective.

    And another thing, I realise rehearsed combos were never my thing.
    And I don't want the world to see me
    'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
    When everything's made to be broken
    I just want you to know who I am
    You ever done a clip you just watched like 30 times the same day.
    Doc Monocle
    Doc Monocle
    To that effect, yes. For me it is usually with words. I say something, and it lingers for a long time. It is not in an enjoyable way though, as I am usually bothered trying to figure out what negative things it could mean to someone else. I have never been adept at giving myself the listener's ears.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    wut
    Doc Monocle
    Doc Monocle
    I interpreted what you said as meaning you will watch a video several times in a short period. In a similar way, my words 'replay' themselves repeatedly in my head, and I further added why it is disturbing to me. If it seemed disconnected, I apologize, for as I essentially said, I am never sure how much clarification I should give the listener to avoid misunderstandings, and so sometimes err on the 'safe side' by adding more words; more information than may be necessary.
    I never understood this idea that it's somehow people who are good at something are entitled to being an asshole. That's literally just you allowing them because of some sort of "authority" that you consent to.

    Confidence isn't the same as arrogance, and people get those two mixed up a lot.
    when they say they're on a diet and they literally order two bk combos on the same timeframe
    I feel like newcomers have an advantage in Ultimate, and moreso than any other game before it. As someone who's played competitive for almost 10 years, I feel like everything I learned is almost meaningless. Guys that have started with this game already do better, and this very mindset is part of what holds me back.

    Then again, how can you not be bitter or resentful knowing that it didn't mean much? "experience" is overrated.
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    Goomboi
    Goomboi
    I do think newcomers have an advantage but its because of how much more different this game is than other iterations, Veterans had to unlearn and then learn this game newcomers just needed to learn the game.
    • Like
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Yes, that's exactly it. I still feel like I'm not even really playing Ultimate, like I never fully adjusted, even after over two years in. I used to beat my friend in the previous games (and a lot of other people), but I started getting behind since.
    I realise I can practice in Training Mode, by myself, for hours in a single day. And the most interesting part of this, is that I rarely ever actually get bored of it. And sometimes I realised somewhat recently, I really have 0 ego or sense of anxiety or frustration in doing so, unlike playing something like online.

    I've been practicing Kazuya for almost a week, and I didn't know anything. But after hours of just grinding over and over, even when it was physically demanding (my grip hurts if I go for like a whole hour), I really see I can overcome it.

    This is the best kind of mindset anyone should have when trying to improve, though I can't say I really learned to do against actual players.
    I find it ironic that the same people that think wifi Zelda is the best and "optimal" playstyle for her are later the same ones that say she only works online, that she's barely a Mid tier and also the same ones that don't bother learning anything new to improve her game.
    Amen amen amen
    You might find me by the water
    Waiting for the trumpet call
    Oh you see me like a stranger
    Amen amen
    AMEEENNNN

    Breaking out the cage
    Losing all my chains
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