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Of course, whichever game is more satisfying to play is a subjective thing, as each one does things differently from one another, with all having their unique strengths.

Personally speaking, I vastly prefer the character variety and general game feel of Ultimate (it also has Wario, so that's instant points from me). But again, that enjoyment is different for everyone.

Not really. It's alot more subjective than that. If you find the "unique strengths" of camping, chaingrabbing and Meta Knight more satisfying, you're going to prefer Brawl.

Character variety hardly means anything if a single playstyle ever is rewarded. That's part of why Sm4sh died so easily while Melee continues to thrive. Any pro of any character of Sm4sh would always just say "I play X character campy and defensively" as if there were any other viable playstyle.

It also doesn't help when that character variety is completely held back by a large number of unnecessary things.

I DON'T prefer the gameplay of Ultimate because of a ton of objective reasons such as its awful input buffer, dropping through platforms being harder than it needs to be, the universally awful and unsafe grabs and grab ranges, ballon knockback and hitstun just rewarding mashing like an idiot out of a ton of situations, etc.

I can play my main man Wario in Project M whilst NOT having to put up with ANY of that and a beautiful Wario Land inspired moveset.

I mixed up the two words. Oops.

Anyway... yeah, I think it is absolutley subjective as to which game you prefer.

(I edited the rest of this out because I feel I got ahead of myself and responded somewhat poorly)

And that's what Project M is for because you don't have to put up with any of those things from Melee.

A generic punch bores me. I have no issue with it being a funny kick since said kick comes out at a way sooner frame that makes it possible to actually combo and cobfirm into and has a sourspot as opposed to a laggy useless fist. So there kinda IS an issue with an FSMash that's so ULTIMATEly useless.

In other words, you're still dismissive to anyone that doesn't share your own opinion on Smash? Or at least that's the vibe I'm getting from this... maybe I'm mistaken? The tone of both responses makes me feel like this isn't in good faith though.

No.

I merely pointed out the fact your complaints are completely addressed by PM and the fact PM Wario FSmash is objectively much more usable.

You can prefer Ultimate all you please. Not my fault Wario can't make as much use of his FSmash due to how slow and laggy it is and being unable to combo or confirm into it.

You say that, but if we're talking comp only, Wario is an excellent character in Ultimate too, regardless of preference. Has great combos, kill power, set ups, recovery, etc. all the same!

If you talk in comp, then it's the same in PM but with way better combos, way more combo variety, way better punishment options, way more usable moves, way better kill power and arguably way more balanced recoveey that's still super strong since UpB has priority on it. Calling it all the same with the number of things PM Wario can do that Ultimate Wario can't is honestly foolish.

It doesn't matter which one you prefer because it doesn't change the fact one can combo NeutralB into FSmash and the other can't. That's just ONE example out of probably hundreds.

Except you CAN'T because it's not true so you'd be very much wrong. Wario in PM can combo into way more things off of DTilt for a kill like FSmash, Waft, SideB, RAR BAir, NAir, NeutralB into something else, etc. All ULtimate Wario can do is combo DTilt into dash attack and sometimes FTilt. The number of examples is huge. You're the one that would only be continuing the circle cuz it seems you have some isuse with someone being more satisfied with a mod than an official game instead of accepting that and moving on.

Perhaps you are right. I think the original point of this discussion has been diverted and lost. Namley that when I said that what Smash games people prefer are subjective, for they all offer their own benefits over eachother, you respondend that it's all actually objective and the games you like more are factually better.

I know I'm right because I've played a ton of both games and done plenty of research on to fairly say that and back that up.

I never once said that. I merely pointed out factual information of objective flaws that you and I have to put up with in Ultimate or Melee just flat out not existing in PM. That would remain true regardless of what I said. Just seems you're the one that has an issue with PM being an objectively less flawed game and being enjoyed more by someone you don't even know.

Keeping in mind that I already said I like all the games, I feel that character in PM are too homogenised. Despite having all these different mechanics per character, characters can just about combo anything into anything, or the characters can be played on "autopilot". So it might technically offer more 'freedom', but it's less intereactive and characters feel like they have less identity to them as a result. This also results in defensive play or players in disadvantage being left without many options compared to other games. PM also includes a lot of archaic mechanics like L-canceling and the older ledge mechanics, and makes decisions with their own problems like greatly reduced hitlag and their own airdodge mechanics.

Here's the thing, I don't think PM is objectivley better or worse than other Smash games. If I like one over the others, or think one is "better", I do not feel I have to justify why that is by presenting it as objectivley better. That is what I think.