Smashboards

Uh...
What don't you like about it? It has problems but I wouldn't consider it bad by any stretch of the imagination.

[Citation needed on 'a lot' of people.]

Also, please, Smash 4 and Brawl are both worse lol, Smash 4 being just a bad game, and Brawl due to a myriad of horrible game design choices(No, I'm not counting Project M), as is 64 due to how basic and simple it is.

Really I don't think any Smash game is bad. They all excel at what they set out to do-provide a fun platform fighter for casual and competitive play. Compared to each other, I guess you could consider some bad. But all of them have an abundance of modes and collectibles, great rosters, tons of other content, and just a really well-made multiplayer experience.
Though I will admit 64 was probably the worst, not for anything inherently bad but because of how much content and mechanics it lacked compared to Melee onward.

I also find posts like these always a bit silly. They always claim "A lot of people", but never actually provide any proof, and if they do, they point to a small handful of reddit posts, which are an absolute fraction of the community.

You know how I know with an undeniable fact that people are actually happy with Ultimate?

Steve broke Twitter. That's all that needs to be said. Smash fans overloaded goddamn Twitter of all places.

Werent people disappointed on how he played when Steve released?

I mean, how many do you consider a 'big deal', because sure, 'some' people haven't liked how he plays, but.... Steve has been met with pretty strong, unanimous praise. He's complicated, and not top tier by any stretch of the imagination, but Steve is one of the most, if not the most, unique and interesting addition to date. He's not for everyone, but no one character is for everyone.


Again, he broke Twitter. If people were as unhappy with Ultimate as people seem to claim, there's no way in hell that Twitter would have legitimately broke at his reveal.


Sure, Ultimate has problems, no denying that, but I'd play Ultimate ANY day of the week over Smash 4, 64, or Brawl.

If you've seen Tweek's twitter he said he didn't like Steve. If you've seen Leffen's tweet he thinks Steve was unimpressive. Some people agree in the comments section.

And in the days of Banjo, people started losing interest in him cause of his campy gameplay.

And yes, people are upset. Mostly it's the FIRST bad bad smash game to them. To me it's not, but it's still quite bad. Brawl and 4 had enjoyable moments to some. The buffer system and input lag in Ultimate has heavily declined the amount of enjoymemt. Even the competitive scene is dying. Sure you can argue it's COVID-19. But it kinda did a favor on pointing out the bad flaws and how it's unfixable now.

I guess blame it on COVID but each to their own.

I'm gonna be honest.

I don't really care what Leffen or Tweek say lol. I respect them as being good players, but Ultimate's competitive scene is thriving despite what you say.


Again, Steve broke Twitter. That's all I have to say to shut down your entire argument.

Every game has its detractors. A handful of tweets don't represent the entiee community.

While I'm at it I'll also throw in that the competitive community is only a small portion of the fandom. Just compare how active the competitive section of this website is to the newcomer speculation.

Shroob "Ultimate's competitive scene is thriving"
I mean...
no, not really. If we had a half-decent online service, and weren't recovering from some pretty shocking allegations, maybe our community would be thriving. But that's sadly not the case. I don't mind the five frames of input lag on local play-it's practically unnoticeable then-but online you notice it a whole lot more.
Really, the best we can do to fix the current state of Smash competitive is wait for online to be fixed, or wait for this pandemic to be over.
And when we get to play offline again, we'll have to make quite a few changes to our current system for locals. Wear a mask. Six feet apart. No handshakes or fist bumps. Sanitize you gear. And we'd have to make more rules just to make sure nobody else has to get hurt.
Omni puts it into words better than me in his recent video he made on the subject. Strong language warning.

I mean, it was thriving just fine before Covid, and Tournaments always hit front page of the subreddit.

I think the big difference is that everyone is locked indoors right now, thus we're forced to play with Nintendo's ****ty online, which isn't exclusively a Smash thing either. If/when Covid is dealt with, in person tournaments will pick up again guaranteed.

Dude ima be honest I never cared about the buffer system being what it is. Ultimate has easily been the best smash IMO but If these things are really killers for some I could understand.

I don't think 4 or Ultimate are really that much different at the end of the day. The meta has moved back to ledge trapping and top tiers being difficult to punish in disadvantage like Smash 4 and Ultimate is just as if not more campy. Almost every complaint made about Smash 4 can be made for something equally as dumb in Ultimate.

But Ultimate has been dumbed down more than Smash 4 with execution requirements being gone and anyone can break combos or tech just by hold down A, the clunky movement and lack of movement options making spacing and positioning more difficult, dodges sometimes putting the user completely into advantage and being ridiculous with the amount space they cover (directional airdodges are really dumb), burst options being really strong and pretty much preferred due to the clunky movement and lack of options for dealing with them make them really obnoxious. That's before getting into how the controls and buffer system make advanced maneuvers even more difficult or outright impossible and the hold buffer kills good players as much as it carries bad players.

All of that makes neutral very tedious and shallow and neutral is like 80% of a fighting game. It feels like a lot of aspects in general are very one-note and there are far too many situations that just rely on putting your best option forward (guessing) and Ultimate favors itchy trigger fingers and incentivizes mindless mashing more than it should. I sometimes just get bored and zone out and have to stop playing.


I feel that Ultimate is just a more dumbed down version of Smash 4 that is prettier and has more characters with worse movement, worse controls, dumbed down/outright dumb mechanics, and an oversimplified neutral.

(Reading the rest of the thread and it would probably be better if people clarified what aspect of the game they find good/bad. I'm critiquing the competitive aspect, but it isn't that bad from a casual one).

S StoicPhantom

I've gotten online recently, it's still as bad as I remember. Even in a casual way, it's still bad (the online)

I heard that the TV makes input lag less noticable but thanks to the Nintendo Switch bending on dock in first model (which I have), I'm afraid.

But I'll give props where it's due. At least Ultimate is more caring for the game than League of Legends as of recently.

I think the best way is to wait out until all the DLC is finished or we have a miracle (It's rare, but Nintendo does it). However, it ain't gonna be happening. In Smash 4, they didn't fix **** about Bayonetta in the last update and I honestly really doubt they'll do since Sakurai have bizarre reasons to dumb down things. We all remember why the story mode was removed... To add on to my conclusion, Nintendo should admit there is a competitive scene and just admit the world is already broken and fix those problems.

I can't say I've noticed a difference with the TV. If there is a difference in input lag it is very minor, though I haven't played undocked in a very long time.

I think if they got rid of the hold buffer, made the short hop macro optional, brought back perfect shields, and made it so that dodges can't put you straight in advantage then the game would feel a lot better. But that will introduce too much chaos to the meta and it still wouldn't fix the movement being bad, so we're probably stuck with what we got.

S StoicPhantom

Since what happened to Brawl competitively, I can see why they can stick with it.

But they could fix some of the buffers and input lag while they're at it. It will be slower thanks to COVID-19 but I think they should be able to fix it cause I actually believe patches do get better within each game

And who knows? We may have continous patches that just fix gameplay like Splatoon 2 but I kinda doubt it.