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Zinith
Zinith
We're talking about a specific thread Iridium...
Iridium
Iridium
I know. I already saw it.

Just saying I'm not sure anybody was trying to say that.
Zinith
Zinith
Trying to say they "want to cut Yoshi?" You're right, they weren't, at least not in general. But in that thread, Yoshi is an easy target.
Iridium
Iridium
I can understand that.

The best answer really was no one.
Yoshi_smash
Yoshi_smash
People are still bashing Yoshi in the "Who would you cut from the Original 8" thread. Should I respond to it again? (Yoshi is being called "boring", "overrated" and "annoying".) There are now 22 people in that thread who say Yoshi should be cut.
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Zinith
Zinith
There's only so many times I can respond to the same argument...
Yoshi_smash
Yoshi_smash
After even more people continued to bash Yoshi on that thread, I decided to respond again, and now the replies are mostly ad hominem arguments (arguments about me rather than about the subject matter). I give up on that thread. (I've said what I wanted to say and people are ignoring it).
RealPokeFan11
RealPokeFan11
I think it was best to leave it alone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, even if you don't agree with them. Responding again was what encouraged them to make fun of you.
Zinith
Zinith
I can see why you jumped. There was a string of those responses almost to the point where the design of the thread seems to be leading. And everyone knows it but doesn't care. However, I choose the Iron Man approach of choosing my battles and you go with the Captain America approach.

Threads like that are supposed to be fun thought exercises. Other "who'd you cut" threads, even if select characters took up the brunt of the discussion, at least didn't focus heavily on one character and it leads to a variety of arguments, biases and reasoning. That's fun. There is no such variety with that thread. They go with one character, use the same arguments and they expect fans of that character not to respond?
Yoshi_smash
Yoshi_smash
They said I was repeating myself too much, but the fact is, the Yoshi-bashing was getting very repetitive. With people calling Yoshi "garbage", "annoying" and a profanity word, I felt I had to respond. And for some reason, the Yoshi-bashing comments are getting a lot of likes. I know the thread is just a thought exercise, but it just seems like that particular thread exposes people's inner hostility toward Yoshi.

My argument that Yoshi is not a Mario character seems to have been ignored as well. Also, when I suggest a different character to cut, such as Samus or Link, the reaction is "what are you, crazy?" Plus it doesn't help that there are 20+ people on the "let's cut Yoshi" side of the argument.
Sans3546
Sans3546
it's not yoshi bashing. the thread challenges people to input their personal opinions between five well known nintendo stars of popular franchises, yoshi who is more commonly associated with mario than he is with his own franchise, samus whose franchises did very bad overall, and fox whose franchise did even worse but has a lot of popularity because of melee. people make choices. of course, nobody actually wants any of them cut. i can guarantee you that there is a maximum of one person in that thread who actually wants to see yoshi removed from smash bros, yet you seem to be under the impression that there's a crusade against yoshi, and you're taking it personally. please just stop taking it personally. i don't actually hate yoshi. he's a vital component to a roster of the current size when it comes to accurately representing nintendo and its history.

i can't speak for a second representative though.

edit:
d*mmit, bbcode doesn't work here meaning i can't use my signature comic sans font.
Zinith
Zinith
Well even taking my personal opinions of my boi aside (very hard to do, I assure you), I can at least attest to the quality of the thread suffering because it's a leading question. There are numerous points that can be developed and explored but only two are ever explored. "Yoshi because Mario character" and "Fox because sales".

I actually made the suggestion of Pikachu for the expressed purpose of Pokemon having it's own line of platform fighting games. It's an out-of-the-box idea that ultimately got ignored because Pikachu is one of the "untouchables"
Sans3546
Sans3546
yeah, the untouchables have that name for a reason. mario is literally the mascot of nintendo, pikachu is one of the most popular characters in nintendo's second best selling franchise, and link's design is from breath of the wild which is selling amazing right now (and for good reason). all three of them are effectively who sell the franchise to nintendo fanatics besides the more recent folks such as shulk and inkling, and very few people new to smash brothers are hyping over being able to play as samus, yoshi, or fox.

an argument could be made for donkey kong or kirby, but the truth is that samus, yoshi, and fox are ones that are the three options when you think about it logically. very few people who aren't biased towards one of the eight over the other seven would disagree with that statement.

you already know my bias goes towards ness (or sans if he makes it in).
Zinith
Zinith
Well they don't have the name "untouchables," I just gave it that designation. When I say those are untouchable, I mean in the sense that no consideration is looked for them, NOT that the arguments stack up in their favor when considerations are met. Obviously they're not on anyone's chopping block.

Also, "everyone who isn't biased can see that" is a logical fallacy. Agumentum ad populum.
Sans3546
Sans3546
you gave it the designation, and i agreed with it. the fact that there is no consideration for them to be removed simply means people realize the fact that the removal of any of those "untouchables" would turn far too many people away from the smash bros franchise or back to a previous smash game, and the last thing the smash community needs is yet another game to divide everyone.

there's every reason to keep them in. people have realized this for two decades. why would anyone explore them as removal possibilities in the current age?
Yoshi_smash
Yoshi_smash
But like I said on the thread, there is more of reason to exclude Donkey Kong, Samus, Fox or Kirby than there is to exclude Yoshi. Yoshi should be considered "untouchable" just like Mario, Pikachu or Link.

As for the arguments in the thread, I don't take it personally. But what I don't like is when people start making ad hominem arguments (arguments about me rather than about the subject matter). That has been happening a lot lately. It's annoying that all the ad hominem posts are getting a lot of likes.

I still think there is a lot of hostility toward Yoshi in that thread (more than is necessary for a thread about a hypothetical scenario). One person just posted a post about why he finds Yoshi to be annoying. Why is that even necessary in this type of thread? There aren't any posts about Link being annoying, or Mario being annoying -- all the negativity is focused on Yoshi. That's what bothers me.

Also, as Zinith said, that thread has become stale due to people only choosing Yoshi or Fox, while totally ignoring every other character. And when I say "let's cut Link", people say "that's ridiculous". Well, I think cutting Yoshi is ridiculous.

Ultimately, as Zinith said, the thread is only a thought exercise thread, so I don't know why people are getting so agitated and taking things so seriously. I think I'm going to stop responding to the thread because the responses are so hostile. The people commenting on the thread aren't too friendly, that's for sure.

Comments like "I feel like Yoshi is an annoying overrated side character with little relevance anymore and mediocre games. I would care less if he got cut" are really annoying and are designed to make me and other Yoshi fans angry.
Zinith
Zinith
Yeah, I think it's best you don't post in that thread anymore, and I'm surprised a mod hasn't stepped in tbh.
Yoshi_smash
Yoshi_smash
The tone of some of the comments has become pseudo-bullying. I think I will make one more comment, and then stop. It's just not worth discussing things with such mean and unfriendly people. And people ARE still bashing Yoshi; go to the thread and see the latest comments. Also, one of the people is demanding that I respect other people's opinions, yet he calls my opinion "[F-word] ridiculous drivel".
Sans3546
Sans3546
what the hell happened last night? i got 20 notifications today when i woke up, 17 of them said that yoshi_smash commented here, but there's only three new comments.

anyways, i think i made it clear that yoshi is not an untouchable. you think he should be, but the fact of the matter is that he isn't as proven by the fact that over 25 people according to one of your posts said so. by the way, everything there is to be said about the subject matter has been said, and people have realized that things you have been posting is argumentum ad nauseam. my guess would be that after after one or two bad incidents of that crap, those people are fed up with it (both the post makers and the like givers).

people are "only choosing yoshi and fox" because they're the obvious choices here. people (like me in the thread) have presented facts and/or opinions regarding the eight characters and their corresponding franchises and made a decision on who to cut. what do you want everyone to say? you want every post to be a ten paragraph essay with a body paragraph for each character, an introduction, and a conclusion? that would oversaturate the thread very quickly, it would discourage people from posting, and is ultimately unnecessary. people naturally know why characters like mario, link, and pikachu should never be cut.

those comments that say yoshi is overrated are not meant to attack anyone. they are opinions, not offensive remarks. if that's uncomprehendable, i don't know what else to say.

that also applies to everything i have said up to this point. since this seems to be going nowhere (like the actual thread), i'll just be done here. further replies will be ignored.
Zinith
Zinith
Maybe you can here one more reply from me for clarity's sake...

You may be mixing up mine and Yoshi_smash's points a bit. I told him directly in another profile post that he was going too far in that thread and if I were a mod I'd have banned him from it myself. If I was being pedantic I could've went over to that thread and tackled every little claim against Yoshi using numbers and not "feelings" (i.e. how much he actually appears in the main Mario games, how much of the elements introduced in the Yoshi games actually crosses over, etc.) but that takes time and my attention is elsewhere these days.

However, his conduct doesn't justify a lot of the replies he got. You say that "Yoshi is overrated" comments are not meant to attack anyone? Context matters, and that comment (along with others in that thread) was made for the explicit purpose of provoking a reaction from him, which constitutes trolling. I even reported one of them myself.

Also please stop the appeals to popularity. You do that a lot...
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