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Oz o:
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  • Zelda's good, people just suck at using her and don't really try, and then complain and say she's bad and onedimensional. People thought Byleth was Low/Mid tier before Leo picked him up, and then they actually started seeing the character has really strong stuff. They even thought Nair was a really bad Palutena Nair.
    I wonder how many people actually like Kazuya for the badass, technical of a character he is, and not just for a trend, or because of his 0-deaths. I liked Kazuya the moment I saw the direct, and how different he felt to the conventional "shoto" characters.

    I feel he wasn't nearly as popular the first year, and it wasn't until like Riddles started doing better with him that people started jumping on that bandwagon.
    Not to mention how much easier Ultimate made it for lazy players to win by just following some generic, bland, textbook way of playing and being enough to beat actual good players with it and call it a "skillcheck" when there's no actual skill involved.
    Linkmain-maybe
    Linkmain-maybe
    Thats why I don't play Smash anymore, and play true competitive masterpieces, such as Pizza Tower.

    In all seriousness, yeah, the game is very formulaic and finding creative answers to problems is difficult when the opponent literally just presses random moves that are impossible to predict because they don't even think about their options.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    While that is a case on wifi, I find it more annoying to deal with people who play at a turtle's pace and barely move, but always do some panic option on the last moment to get away and reset neutral/reverse me. There's no sense of flow, and it feels like a very monotonous and boring match of always having to wait a reaction (very hard with lag). They could at the very least make it fun, since it's not like they're getting anything for winning like that.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Never heard of Pizza Tower, but it's likely far more competitive than that.
    As a competitive player, it annoys me to no end when players leave after a single match. It makes me think they're just idiots that think they somehow think they're that much better than you and don't deserve to rematch you, and let alone when there's no other opponents around.

    I'll never get wifi players. I'll never get this wannabe "competitiveness" of GSP when you don't actually want to improve or have any sense of sportsmanship, or even fun, by the looks of it.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    I think it more comes down to most people only play once whether they win or lose in order to avoid potentially being figured out and losing GSP because of it rather than thinking you aren't good enough to play again. Public ranking was a mistake and has permanently ruined the online culture. I'm at like 12.7 million and almost no one rematches because you lose more GSP than you win at that level. I need multiple victories in a row versus someone significantly higher in GSP to progress any faster than a snail's pace and losing once or twice to someone lower than me, even if I win the set, sets me back like two hours of play. It feels like a pointless grind so I don't really play much anymore except to get more practice on my box controller.
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Not an issue if you don't care about Elite.
    🤷‍♂️
    Been playing wifi since Ultimate came out, and I still can't wrap my head around how people are so stupid to not rematch after a single match, let alone if it was a good match. Do people not care about fighting other good players? Does sportsmanship not exist?

    A lot of the time it wasn't even a legit win, and I probably killed myself, and they're all on their high horse thinking you don't deserve another round.
    People seem to have this dumb idea that going 0-2 is somehow only reserved for new or bad players, but that means they really don't understand the game that well, and let alone if a tournament is stacked with half-decent players at worst.
    I don't think many people can relate to putting a lot of effort into something and loving it, but also hating it, or at least ultimately turning into something you start hating without really wanting to.

    When you love something, it should simple, even if it is hard for you.
    Linkmain-maybe
    Linkmain-maybe
    Dragon Quest 11 60 hour seed farming minimum. I can relate, trust me.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    I started playing Genshin Impact almost two months ago, and while it definitely makes you work for it, I don't feel that at all.
    Janx_uwu
    Janx_uwu
    Oz o: Oz o: lmao of course I've wanted to quit. I haven't even written anything for pleasure in the past month outside of Smashboards, so I guess you could say I've temporarily "quitted". But I know it's what I want to do with my life. I hate writing and I love it. I hate writers' blocks, I hate how there's no manual for how to do it, I hate Google Docs and I hate how everything else costs money. But it's all gonna be worth it when I'm living alone (or with a partner, if I'm lucky) and finally having the freedom to make my own scheduele, actually having the time and dedication to finish a chapter's first draft from start to end in a single sitting. Maybe a little game journalism on the side to keep the bills paid.
    Also, I have five siblings. I know what it's like to love and hate something at the same time, for sure.
    I don't know if there's a videogame I can relate the feeling to, though. Usually if I don't like a game enough I just stop playing it.
    It's funny people trying to excuse it tell you, "you have to play X way", as if that's the only solution. In a good game, the only thing that matters is (and should) to be better and more skillful than your opponent, and that's it. You're not any better for playing "strategic" or "smart".

    Good players don't need any conventions or rules.
    Ultimate was the only Smash game I could get 2stocked by people worse than me in spite of putting much more effort. For that to happen in any other Smash game, they need to be at least better than me and not get away with random bull**** only that game allows.

    I played Bottom 10 character in Brawl and could go even against Brawl MK, because only skilled mattered then. So much for Ultimate's "balanced" cast...
    I think I punished myself too much for not being good at Ultimate. You could have learned all these skills from previous games, but it doesn't garantee you'll be good at it. Ultimate has this thing where it feels it rewards you for being good at only one or two things at lower levels (even midlevel), and it can even carry you for it.

    Fundamentals isn't playing lame or dash back > punish, it's a whole other set of skills people aren't taking into account, like being able to read and punish multiple habits (rolls, spotdodges, airdodges, even dashbacks, jumps, etc.), intuitive DI, mixing up your own disadvantage (aka not always panic mashing the same roll or directional airdodge away), ledgetrapping, etc.

    So I just punished myself for being a good computer technician when the game only required me to be good at using a broom.
    Linkmain-maybe
    Linkmain-maybe
    The way I play now is to play like an idiot for 3-4 matches when I start, so I get into the head of most players, allowing me to fight worse players by understanding what they are thinking. I don't worry about doing flashy combos and stuff, I just play well.

    Lets say Smash is like cleaning a house. I learn how to use a broom, and use a broom. When I need to be a computer technician, I am a computer technician. What I feel is that you are always trying to be a computer technician. Sometimes you should use a broom. (even if its kinda annoying)
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    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    Yeah, I am just that. I am well aware of my stubborness.
    Hasn't even been a whole 4 years, but I almost feel like quitting Ultimate. The game has treated really horribly for the amount of hours and effort I put in, and it's really weird game that can either reward you for being really average or outright punishing for actually being good at Smash because you didn't want to settle for textbook mediocrity. Anyone can be patient and play lame, but not everyone is willing to put in the hours to practice combos and have the creative mindset to try and exploit different skillsets within the game.

    I've seen people who get by in their locals just by being good at only one aspect of the game, basically a gimmick and not have anything else that really makes them good beyond that. This is what mid level and below looks like now. Midlevel became a joke, and I wouldn't be surprised if people nowdays do think midlevel is something a lot worse than it actually was.

    And while I'm still wrestling with my inputs and the game's awkward game mechanics, the other guy is just sticking to the "gameplan" a 5-year old can pull off as a simple """""skillcheck"""" which you can't even argue "get better" in return. I got better, and the game didn't give a ****, just because I wouldn't want to play in your specific boring and textbook way.

    And that's the whole paradigm of Ultimate: It's not about playing better, it's about playing specifically to this one thing, regardless of skill.
    In all my years playing competitive Smash since Brawl, I never played a game that rewarded bad players so much. To them, it's completely fine and dandy, but it's a kick in the balls to players who actually dedicate time and effort to improve.

    Great ****ing game design.
    There are times I say to myself Zelda is the only reason I play Ultimate, but I'd be lying to myself. I love all of my characters, and I've been crazy about them, each in my respective "phases". Byleth is also the only DLC I've waited eagerly and very passionately those 12 days prior to release. They were excrutiating. I'm very thankful Byleth is in the game.
    I'm saying it again:
    Best ****ing Summit. This reinforces part of why I love Smash. It goes beyond the videogame.
    It never made sense to me how people use this word, "tryhard", as if I'm supposed to differentiate between playing "for fun" and playing "seriously"/using effort. To me, playing for fun and actually putting in effort are one in the same. If I don't use effort, I can't expect to play well, and in exchange, I won't enjoy it.

    What's the fun in not trying? Is it somehow more "cool"? It's stupid.
    Goomboi
    Goomboi
    I've always seen try hard as meaning like camping or doing everything to win even if its not fun.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    If that's the case, that **** doesn't run in my blood.
    I told my friend the only real counterplay Kazuya has is that no one really knows how to use him yet and we both laughed at that thought.
    I ****ing hate being inconsistent. There's always some goddamn factor throwing me off, whether it's input delay, mental or even physiological. It doesn't make sense to consistently practice and **** just works whenever it wants to. I'll never get it.
    People say it's worse to have wifi than not play Smash at all, but I'll be honest and say I probably would've been a lot happier and mentally healthy if I didn't touch that crap for a year and a half. It's the worst thing that happened to the game, and killed my passion and confidence as a player.

    And you know what? You still have Training Mode and CPUs. Sure as hell beats being angry and literally getting worse.
    D
    Deleted member
    Yeah but Training gets boring after 10 minutes and playing CPUs isn't satisfying. And offline has less viable characters, so that would just make me more toxic.
    Oz o:
    Oz o:
    From a guy with a ****ty mentality to another:

    get off wifi and play real people. Trust me, it's way better. All the crap you complain about? Doesn't happen in real life half the time. And if it does, they're assholes and you can tell it to their face.
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