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Maximizing Fox's Grab Game(INCOMPLETE)

Game Versions
Smash 3DS, Smash Wii U
(Please note! This is my first guide, and this will be incomplete for a while, so please forgive me!)
A QUICK INTRODUCTION: Hello guys! My name is Top Boss. I have mained fox since late this summer, and I have quickly accumulated tons of knowledge, tactics, etc that I would love to share with you guys. I have only been to one tournament for smash 4(one for melee/project m as well) and I won using only fox. I had a feeling someone would ask me about tournaments.. I also have a potato quality YouTube channel, and more in case you want more ways to contact me. But let's get started on this guide, shall we?
Some quick terminology:
Uthrow=up throw
Dthrow=down throw
Fthrow=forward throw
Bthrow=back throw
SH=short hop
FH=Full Hop
Nair=neutral air
I think you get the idea now.

Table of Contents: (INCOMPLETE AND NOT IN ORDER)
Quick overview of Fox's grab game.
PART 1:MOVE ANALYSIS:

Up throw:damage,KB, and applications. Also considers DI.
Down throw:damage,KB, and applications. Also considers DI.
Back throw:damage,KB, and applications. Also considers DI.
Forward throw:damage,KB, and applications. Also considers DI.
Grab/Dash Grab/Pivot Grab Frame Data
Pummel
PART 2:GETTING TECHNICAL:
Boost pivot Grab
Roll cancel grab
Running Shield Grab
Etc.
PART 3: KNOW YOUR POTENTIAL
Applying each type of grab
Reliable Combos Into Grab
Tomahawks
Matchup/Stage Dependent Tips
Baiting
Mixups
DI Traps
Etc.
Conclusion!(Also may include relevant videos)
NOW IS WHERE WE START!!!!
Overview of Fox's Grab Game:
In case you did not know already, Fox's grab game is below average relative to the cast. He has no reliable combo OR kill throw, but that does NOT mean grabbing is a terrible option. Even though he doesn't have throws that are as excellent as Ness', Lucas', etc, Fox's throws still remain a great aspect in his game. Now, let's get into fox's throws, one by one! Each throw will include damage(which can vary with DI), knockback, applications, and the viability of the throw when DI is thrown in the equation.
Part 1:Move Analysis
UP THROW
Damage:8%(if all lasers connect. The initial throw does 2%.)
Knockback: High base, Low growth(Will send the opponents far at low percents, but knockback will barely change at higher percents.)
Combo Potential:NONE...KO Potential:Only at Impractical Percent.
Applications: Positioning and frame traps.
I honestly think this throw is underrated. This throw can be hard to DI since it is very fast, meaning it is easy to connect all the laser shots in order to earn max damage. This throw is mostly matchup dependent, since you'll want to save this throw for characters who have trouble landing, such as luigi, bowser, ryu, captain falcon, etc. Going for a double jump up air is not the best strategy, however, since you will possibly face a heavy punish. I enjoy using up throw on stages like battlefield, halberd, dream land, etc where i can force opponents on a platform, which can give you an opportunity for great pressure(which can be from SH up airs). One important thing to keep in mind is this is a REACTION BASED THROW! This means that you should wait for the opponent to commit to an option before you do anything. From there, punish accordingly. For just about any action your opponent makes, a well timed up air will connect and will be your best punish option.
Considering DI:DI does not really affect the use of this throw. The main thing DI will do is slightly lower the damage output of the throw(usually decreasing by 2-4%). One more thing:due to the throw's low KB growth, the setups with up air punishes can be viable at KO percents as well.
BACK THROW
Damage:8%(if all lasers connect)
Knockback: High Base, Low Growth.
Combo Potential:NONE...KO Potential:Only at impractical percent.
Applications:Stage Control.
Honestly I think Fox's back throw would be terrible if it weren't for one neat trick:boost pivot grabbing. This throw sends opponents at a high angle, which means it can't really be used to set up edgeguards. It's knockback scales poorly, so it cannot KO at any reasonable percent. However, this throw can be amazing for stage control. This is the throw we want to use the boost pivot grab for(I'll talk about that in more detail later). Essentially, the boost pivot grab will give us a big slide when performing our grab, which will also result in back throw sending the opponent farther back. If we combine boost pivot grab and back throw, the opponent gets sent to the whole other side of the stage AT ZERO PERCENT. This quickly gives us stage control, as you can see. From there, your opponent should be up against the edge of the stage, which gives you an advantage and can lead to some serious pressure.
Considering DI:DI does not really affect the use of this move.

FORWARD THROW
Damage:7%
Knockback: Fairly Low
Combo Potential: Gimmicky...KO Potential:Starting at around 200%..
Applications:Tech Chasing, Edgeguard setup, Luma Killer
Fox's forward throw is arguably his best throw. Unlike back throw, this throw sends opponents at a lower angle, which is much more ideal for edgeguarding. This is especially useful against someone like captain falcon, since his vertical recovery is easily interrupted by up tilt, down smash, and down tilt. Also, starting at around 40% and up, forward throw can be a decent tech chase move against characters with faster fall speeds. This is one way of securing a KO with an up smash that your opponent may have not seen coming, since fox is usually fairly helpless to shields at high percent. At low percents, however, Fthrow is relatively useless, since the KB is so low. Another thing, Fthrow can send Luma very far away, which helps a lot in the Rosalina matchup. Overall a good throw; save it up for some neat high percent setups.
Considering DI: DI'ing upwards can limit the use of your tech chase setups, so be quick and unpredictable! Upwards DI can also make some characters recover significantly easier, so be prepared to mix up your edgeguards.
DOWN THROW:
Damage:7%
Knockback: Fairly High Base and Low growth
Combo Potential:YES(VERY DI DEPENDENT)...KO Potential:No.
Applications:Combo Starter
Fox's down throw is a decent combo starter. It is a lot worse than other characters' throws, however, since DI can easily ruin this throw. DI aside, Down throw can combo into Fox's aerials at low-mid percentages, the most optimal combo being Down throw>Fair>Uair(about 30%). Here are some more combos you can do with down throw without any DI:
D throw>Fast Fall Fair(spike)>f tilt reset>whatever you want.
D throw>RAR Bair
D throw>Dair(if Dair is fast falled it can combo into aerials for more damage)
These combos will eventually be uploaded to Youtube and linked here to get a visual idea.
Considering DI: DI away from Fox can severely limit his D throw combos. It limits him to only RAR Bair at low percents. However, if you catch an opponent DI'ing INTO Fox at over 100%, up air is guaranteed and will KO. Again, this will eventually be shown on YouTube.
Now, let's take a quick look at Fox's grabs. Here I will briefly talk about his standing grab, dash grab, pivot grab, pummel, etc.(credit to KuroganeHammer for frame data!)
Standing Grab
Hitbox active: 6-7 FAF: 29 Range: pretty low
Dash Grab
Hitbox Active:10-11 FAF: 36 Range:?(probably also low) Distance covered:
Pivot Grab
Hitbox Active: 11-12 FAF: 34 Range:? Distance Covered:
(Has not been looked into much yet. Will provide more details after testing).
Pummel
Speed:Fast
Damage:1% per hit
Fox's pummel is pretty good. Always remember to squeeze in a few at high percent. At low percent, going for 1 or 2 pummels is viable, and can rack up some extra damage. Definitely something to keep in mind, but do not overuse it, or else the enemy may escape.
Part 2: Getting Technical
Here is the second part of the guide. This will be the shortest part. Here we will talk about some (advanced?) techniques you can use to further enhance your Fox grab game! As of right now, there are 3 techniques I would like to cover: Boost Pivot Grab, roll cancel grab, and the running shield grab. I have not looked into roll cancel grab that much, to be honest with you, so that may not be added yet. However, I will now talk about the Boost Pivot Grab, which I find to be an essential technique to learn if you want to maximize your grab game as Fox!
BOOST PIVOT GRAB
Definition: A technique used to give your pivot grab a greater slide, meaning its range can be increased. What happens is that your dash attack gets canceled and your momentum transfers into a pivot grab. Also, the slide will still occur while you're grabbing someone, and while you're in the middle of a throw. This means that you can quickly position yourself in certain situations.
How to perform it: The timing of this technique is very similar to that of a pivot f tilt. It's hard to explain the timing specifically, so I'll have to update this later.

Applications:Catching Landings, Stage Control, Mixups, Baiting, Beating Shields, Etc.
Well, this is a lot...(and probably more that I didn't remember lol). But yes,as you can see, Boost Pivot Grab has a TON of uses. I'll name/discuss each use individually here. I don't think some of these uses require too much detail, so hopefully you can stick around to here the rest of what I have to offer.
Catching Landings:
This one is pretty self explanatory and does not require much detail. I would recommend this at fairly low percents(around 30 or so) after a dash attack, because the up tilt followup is hard to land, but your opponent has to land quickly. I also find myself using this after an up throw.
Stage Control:This was mentioned previously. But as stated before, combining a boost pivot grab and a back throw will make your enemy travel across the whole other side of the stage at ANY PERCENT. Great to use in a sticky situation(I.e. getting pressured at the ledge against little mac).
Mixups: This use is a bit difficult to explain. This will be updated eventually.
Baiting/Beating Shields:I decided to put these two together. As you all know, grabs beat shields. However, opponents won't just hold shield willy-nilly; we will have to find a way to bait it. A good example is the tomahawk. This will make the opponent anticipate an aerial, but in reality, we will be getting an edge with the grab.
ROLL CANCEL GRAB
Definition:Canceling your roll into a dash grab. The dash grab has extended range.
How to Perform:Initiate a roll then immediately grab. Simple as that.
Applications:Long Range Punishes, Certain Combos, Possibly More.
I'll be honest here:I have not looked into this technique much. However, I did manage to find a couple basic uses for it here.
Long Range Punishes: Pretty self explanatory. If there's a time where dash grab won't quite reach for a punish, use Roll Cancel Grab instead. So on and so forth.
Certain Combos: Sometimes, when you go for a grab out of a certain move, such as down air, your opponent will have just enough time to avoid it(sidestep, quick jab etc). Another possible scenario is going for an attack(such as nair) and trying to follow up with a grab, but you miss because your opponent gets launched a little too far away. With the Roll Canceled Grab, however, some of these combos can become possible. Here I will list a couple scenarios where using Roll Canceled Grab instead of Dash Grab may prove to be much more viable:
(THESE SETUPS HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED MUCH, SO I MAY BE INACCURATE)
SH Down Air>RC Grab(on fast fallers at about 40%)
F tilt>RC Grab(about 40%)
Neutral Air>RC Grab(about 60%)
THIS WILL BE UPDATED!

RUNNING SHIELD GRAB
(Credits to Beefy Smash Doods for this)
Definition:When you cancel your run into a shield, and hold the shield for about 3 frames, which lets you use a faster standing grab.
How to Perform:First, do a basic run to shield. Now, hold your shield for 3 frames and THEN grab. If you get a dash grab, then you didn't hold shield long enough. Just make sure you don't sit in shield too long:
Why use this over a dash grab?:

Refer to the grab frame data above. You'll see that Fox's standing grab starts on frame 7 and the FAF is 29, while the dash grab starts on frame 10 and the FAF is 36. If you're unaware of what this means, it means that Fox's standing grab starts 4 frames earlier than dash grab and has considerably less endlag. Now, here is where it gets interesting:
As stated before, you can hold shield for 3 frames after a run in order to get a standing grab out of a run. These 3 frames of shield add to the startup of Fox's standing grab, and the shield is active then as well. When you consider these 3 frames, Fox's standing grab comes out on frame 9, which is STILL faster than dash grab. The running shield grab enables 3 frames of shielding to (power)shield an attack, have a safer approach, and have less commitment overall. This technique essentially makes dash grab obsolete.

Now we will start part 3, the longest part of the guide. This section will mainly involve the use of fundamentals to maximize your grab game as Fox!
Part 3:Know Your Potential
Alright, this is the big part. This part of the guide is made to improve your fundamental game so you can make landing grabs easier, more reliably, and less predictably against several characters on different stages! This part will be very long(eventually I may divide this part into another one), so be sure to stick around!

RELIABLE COMBOS INTO GRAB:
Some combos were mentioned in the previous section. However, I plan on making this section more in depth. Here is the format I would like to use when listing the combos:
(Name of combo..i.e Down air into Grab)
% It starts working at(For ALL weight classes)
% It stops working at(For ALL weight classes)
Reliability/Consistency(From a scale of 1-5)
Considering DI
When to use the particular combo
NOW THAT YOU KNOW THE FORMAT OF THIS SECTION, LET'S GET STARTED!(keep in mind:there will be things I leave out due to a major lack in reliability. Maybe I'll add that stuff in later).
Double Jab>Grab
Works at all realistic percentages and on all characters.
Reliability/Consistency:3/5 (NOT A TRUE COMBO).
DI does not affect this string.
When to use:This string is mainly used as a neat mixup. If the opponent is at about 100% and anticipates an up smash after your jab, you can beat their shield with a grab. This setup is also more reliable at the edge of the stage, so you can set up edgeguards pretty easily.
Up Tilt>Grab
Starts working:0%(Certain Heavyweights), About 15%(Fast Fallers)
Stops Working:30-40% Range(All Weight Classes).
Reliability/Consistency:4/5(FRAME TRAP, NOT TRUE COMBO)
DI does not affect this string.
When to Use:This string is primarily used when an opponent manages to put up their shield during up tilt juggles. The grab will be used to punish them and add damage so the up tilt juggle will work upon your next attempt. A character, such as ganondorf, will be able to shield during your up tilts at 0%, but not at slightly higher percents, so a turn around grab is more than enough to punish. However, fast fallers will be able to hit you with something quick if they get hit by up tilt at very low percentages. This is why you start using this string at slightly higher percents on them. This string is not very effective on mid weight or floaty characters either(unless you count punishing Luigi's Nair with a shield grab, but I'm not counting that as a "combo/string").
Back Air>Grab
Starts Working:0%(ALL CHARACTERS)
Stops Working:About 30%(ALL CHARACTERS)
Reliability/Consistency:5/5(TRUE COMBO)
DI does not affect this combo.
When to use:You'll want to use this combo when you want to try to shut down an enemy approach(an example being Falcon's dash grab). Back air is an incredibly good spacing tool, so you can easily pressure people with well spaced back airs. This puts the enemy in a horrible position, because if the back air is shielded, you can punish anyway.
Down air>Grab
Starts Working:about 20%(floaties),about 40%(average characters), 60%(Fast Fallers)
Stops Working: (not tested) similar % to when the enemy gets sent in their tumble animation.
Reliability/Consistency:4.5/5(TRUE COMBO, SEMI-FRAME TRAP, SPECIFIC PERCENT RANGES)
DI can make floaties avoid the combo at earlier percents, and fast fallers can DI downwards and punish your grab with a quick jab or sidestep.
When to use:This combo is mainly used as a way to trick the opponent. You will want to condition them to commit to a certain action beforehand, so you can learn their patterns in different situations. Example: at earlier percents, you can condition someone to shield during an up tilt juggle or repeated sets of double jabs. Now, once you condition the opponent to shield, you can down air>grab with no hassle.
What's good about this combo is that, even if it's not always true, you can force the opponent to fall for the followup. Keep this in mind.

TOMAHAWKS
Definition: performing a short hop(with no other action, such as an aerial), then grabbing once you land. Usually done to Bait out+punish shields.
This is a VERY important tactic for Fox players to know. Fox has one of the best short hops in the game, due to his vertical air speed. This means that if you trick an opponent into shielding, you can land and grab very quickly. Punishing shielding obviously means you can land your grab. Also, this means you can do multiple repeated short hops in a small amount of time. This is a very tricky tactic as Fox, because you can get even bigger punishes if you can successfully read what the opponent will do:

If you read an attack during your short hop, quickly double jump, then fast fall down to get a punish.
If you read the shield, grab(like mentioned before).
If you read a roll, react accordingly with a dash grab/attack.
If you read a sidestep, opt for a neutral air. You can time your neutral air so then you can choose to get the strong hit or the weak hit, which means you can set up combos and KO's however you want.

STAGE DEPENDENT TRICKS
This will be a small section, but I think this could be very useful. I don't really know how to format this section either, so here we go:
Down throw:
In case you didn't remember before, down throw can true combo into down air. This is especially useful if you're on certain platform stages, such as Battlefield and Dream Land. You would down throw the opponent so they would be sent right above the platform, then down air right away. What's nice about this is that a regular full hop down air will autocancel upon landing on a platform. A regular full hop down air autocancels on Battlefield and Dream Land platforms. You will need to do a quick double jump before the down air if you want to autocancel on smashville and whatnot. This makes extending combos with down air way more reliable and gives you some extra Followups. Here are a couple sample combos using this trick:
Down throw-Down Air-Back Air-Grab.
Down throw-Down Air-Short Hop Up Air-Full Hop Down Air-Up Air.
Down throw-Down Air-Footstool-Neutral Air Reset-Anything.
Down throw-Down Air-SH FF Forward Air-F tilt/Neutral air reset-Anything
NOTE:You can replace down air with forward air, but that does less damage overall.

Up Throw:

On Battlefield and Dream Land, you can force a techchase situation if you are right under the top platform. This makes it really easy to punish the opponent's next option. Up throw is also much more useful on stages with low ceilings, since an air dodge/attack/jump punish with up air can KO earlier than usual.
Forward Throw:
On stages with slopes, such as Lylat and Halberd, you can tech chase with forward throw pretty consistently. The slopes give the opponent less time to tech, which can give the move more utility overall.

Back Throw
The high base knockback enables extremely early KO's on walkoffs or on certain platforms(like the platform on smashville).
MATCHUP DEPENDENT TIPS
A lot of things in this section will apply to several different characters at once, so I obviously will not go through each character separately. Here I will go through some characters that have similar flaws/strengths and explain how to counter them with grabs!
Characters Who Can't Land
These characters include, but aren't limited to, Bowser, DK, Luigi, Ryu, Ganondorf, Etc. These are the characters that struggle most against Fox when they're above him. They also tend to be very vulnerable to Fox's frame traps. Up throw and Down throw will be extremely good in these matchups. Up throw sends opponents just where you want them:above you, and pretty far above you at that. In order to make this section more interesting, here are some frame traps Fox is capable of(note:not all of these will apply to every character, such as Luigi). These are all frame traps that you'll want to consider after the air dodge:
*Short hop up air(to cover a landing with no air dodge)>Up tilt(to punish the air dodge)
*Full hop down air>Short hop up air
*Forward air(The move lasts long enough to punish any attempted air dodge as well).
ETC.
Note:the rest of this section will be updated later on.
DI TRAPS
DI traps are very deceptive when used to their full potential. They can force the opponent in unexpected positions, as well as ones that give Fox access to new methods of closing out stocks, stage control, etc. First, allow me to explain what exactly a DI trap is, and how Fox's throws normally should/shouldn't be DI'd.
DI Trap:When you bait the opponent to DI in a certain direction in anticipation of a certain move, but instead use a different move to counter their DI. Before I go into the examples of DI traps, I'll explain how you should/shouldn't DI Fox's throws:
*Up throw:Better off DI'ing left or right, towards the closest ledge.

*Forward throw:DI up to potentially avoid tech chase situations, DI up at the ledge when you're not at KO percent for better positioning, DI towards Fox at KO percents, DI'ing out will make you die earlier.
*Back Throw: Doesn't matter much. DI down can get you closer to the ledge and potentially avoid some lasers though.
*Down Throw:DI away from Fox will help avoid most of his throw followups. DI'ing towards Fox(inwards) will make you more vulnerable.
Now that you see how you should/should not DI his throws, let's look at scenarios where you can DI trap with these throws.

At The Ledge: This, in my opinion, is the best scenario for Fox's DI traps. Normally at the ledge, people will expect a forward throw from Fox to get them offstage. Because of this, they will want to DI inwards. If you think the opponent will DI in, go for a down throw to get a guaranteed up air at KO percents. If your opponent catches onto your down throws at the ledge, they will DI away from you to avoid an up air, which can be punished brutally with a forward throw. DI'ing a forward throw away from Fox results in more knockback from the opponent, which puts them in a terrible position.
Low Percent Setups: While not as applicable as ledge DI traps, you may want to keep this brief section in mind. At low percents, DI'ing away from Fox will make down throw combos practically impossible. However, forward throw tech chases require upwards DI to avoid. You can force tech chases if you anticipate the DI away, and start some great down throw setups if you anticipate the upwards DI.


(This is going to be updated constantly, I promise!)
Author
Top Boss
Views
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First release
Last update
Rating
4.50 star(s) 4 ratings

Latest updates

  1. more work done

    Just Finished another section. Check it out!
  2. Organization

    UPDATE: I decided to organize the guide into a few sections, all referring to different things...

Latest reviews

Very in depth but a little repetitive and could use some better separation between subjects/topics like bullet points or intents
Keep up the great work. This was a very well written guide, and I look forward to updates!
Top Boss
Top Boss
I'll try to keep it up. Thanks!
i can`t Waite for this guide to be finished. alo can you give a better explanation on how to boost grab.
Top Boss
Top Boss
Yes I will! I will have to find the time to fix some parts up, particularly with boost pivot grab. Thanks for a good review as well. I'll try to make the guide worth the wait.
Great job! Some of the stuff that's up right now I already applied, but I never new quite a good chunk of these things. Keep it up!
Top Boss
Top Boss
Thank you for the review! More will come when I have the time in my hands. I'll be sure to add more applications, tactics, etc, which you hopefully don't know of quite yet.
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