Doctor Who Discussion - Series 14 episode 5 out now

[fogbadge]

I'd argue that things are scarier when you don't explain anything. Explaining something causes it to lose the mystique, and the explanation is often disappointing compared to what you build up in your mind. Take Hannibal Lecter, Darth Vader, Michael Myers from Halloween, or the Xenomorph from Alien, for example - when those series went into the backstory/creation of those characters, it was seen as disappointing.

As for the election, aside from Gwilliam clearly eager to launch nuclear weapons (with it outright being said that he'd do it at the first opportunity, possibly even at the moment that he got control), there was whatever it was implied that he was doing to Marti. There are presumably limits to what they can show, but it seems like the point is that politicians (or anyone, really) can be charismatic but hide darker sides to themselves.

For me, some of the most unsettling moments in Doctor Who (at least from what I've seen) have happened when the Doctor's response to something is "I don't know", and in this case, these new forces that are in play take that to extremes, removing the Doctor from the universe without warning. It's kind of like the episode Midnight, where they're faced with a force that defies natural order.

I’d say it’s sort of the reverse of midnight with midnight we don’t know what the monster is but we know what it’s doing. Here we learn who the monster is but we don’t know what it’s doing. So it’s not so much as playing on fear of the unknown as going with what exactly is going on here.

as for the second bit that’s what I was saying we only know what he going to do. As implying stuff well the exact same writer in the exact same show was able to imply things a lot heavier in the past and make it more clear

ultimately it comes down to how they do it and here I feel they didn’t do it very well

 

[MartianSnake]

I understand you don't like the episode but does the title of the thread itself have to be so opinionated? Feel like that's something that oughta remain neutral.

 

[fogbadge]

I understand you don't like the episode but does the title of the thread itself have to be so opinionated? Feel like that's something that oughta remain neutral.

yeah ok I’ll change it

 

[The Black Omen]

It was nice seeing Kate again

Overall the episode was very enjoyable but the ending was a letdown. It feels like RTD started writing, had some really brilliant ideas, and just kinda kept writing until he realized he'd overran the 50 minute mark and so just kinda stopped without writing a satisfying conclusion. Still better than Church on Ruby Road, Space Babies, and Devil's Chord combined.

 

[Megadoomer]

I just made it to "World Enough And Time" in my watch-through of modern Who, so I'm nearing the end of Peter Capaldi's run. I really wish they didn't spoil so much in the season and episode trailers.

For the threat of that episode,

Spoiler

the Cybermen are portrayed in a much creepier way than anything that I've seen from them. (to be clear, what I've seen from them has been "Revenge of the Cybermen" from Tom Baker's run and everything from 10-12 so far) The fact that partially-converted Cybermen are repeatedly saying things like "pain" or "kill me", and the doctors who handle the conversion are aware of this but make no effort to actually stop it, gave me the creeps when I was watching this episode, and Bill's fate was a punch to the gut.

It's just a shame that they look like this:

Between the clearly visible human hands, the ski mask face, and what looks like a whole air conditioning system on their chest, the fear factor is lost somewhat, though it's still a bit unsettling to see human faces working beneath the ski-mask-like face. Also, I'm not sure what Mondasian is or why that makes them different from normal Cybermen; I'm guessing it's something from the classic series.

Also, the episode ends with this plot being referred to as "the genesis of the Cybermen". That seems like it's setting the next episode up pretty highly, given how well regarded Genesis Of The Daleks is considered. (the parallels in terms of how it was worded felt like they had to be intentional)

 

[MartianSnake]

I just made it to "World Enough And Time" in my watch-through of modern Who, so I'm nearing the end of Peter Capaldi's run. I really wish they didn't spoil so much in the season and episode trailers.

For the threat of that episode,

Spoiler

the Cybermen are portrayed in a much creepier way than anything that I've seen from them. (to be clear, what I've seen from them has been "Revenge of the Cybermen" from Tom Baker's run and everything from 10-12 so far) The fact that partially-converted Cybermen are repeatedly saying things like "pain" or "kill me", and the doctors who handle the conversion are aware of this but make no effort to actually stop it, gave me the creeps when I was watching this episode, and Bill's fate was a punch to the gut.

It's just a shame that they look like this:

Between the clearly visible human hands, the ski mask face, and what looks like a whole air conditioning system on their chest, the fear factor is lost somewhat, though it's still a bit unsettling to see human faces working beneath the ski-mask-like face. Also, I'm not sure what Mondasian is or why that makes them different from normal Cybermen; I'm guessing it's something from the classic series.

yeah thats how the cybermen looked in their first ever story. A ton of fans believe them to be the scariest form of them cuz its more human than machine, like a bunch of beepers forcing someone to stay alive. I generally agree

 

[The Black Omen]

Three guesses what my favorite Cyberman design is.

In all seriousness, I think the Mondasian Cybermen are a bit overrated. I mean, The Tenth Planet is one of the all-time greatest Cyberman stories, but they look even goofier there then they did in World Enough and Time. It's just so much. It's still better than the modern designs by a long shot. Trust me, the worst is yet to come.

Gotta love how we're all talking about World Enough and Time and not the episode that just aired today. I haven't seen it yet. Been really busy.

 

[fogbadge]

well i did not like episode 5 but that's i hate things that are purposefully bleak.

 

[Megadoomer]

I finished Capaldi's run (Missy's my favourite incarnation of the Master so far, including Roger Delgado - Michelle Gomez does a great job at selling the character as dangerous and unpredictable but also someone who wants nothing more than to be friends (or possibly more) with the Doctor like how they used to be; I felt like Bill was underused, though), and I watched Dot And Bubble.

I figured out thirty seconds in that it would be critiquing social media, but I didn't think it would focus so much on the racism and self-centeredness that comes from people being stuck in bubbles on social media. By the end of it, I was hoping that Lindy would be eaten by one of the slug monsters, or that the Finetimers' boat would sink right after the Doctor leaves.

About halfway through, I thought that Lindy might be racist (she made some comment about how the Doctor "isn't as stupid as he looks", and it's not like he's being like the 4th or 6th Doctor where he's dressed in a ridiculous costume and acting dumb to trick people - he was wearing normal clothing and sincerely trying to help everyone), but I didn't realize it was on a societal level. I could really feel Ncuti's frustration when he went from laughing to screaming at the end.

I thought the episode was well-acted by everyone involved, and it reminded me of how I felt when reading Harry Potter and getting to the parts with Dolores Umbridge.

 

[Cheese&Chips]

Personally, I’ve not been particularly impressed with this series so far. RTD has never been subtle with his messaging, but he’s not even trying anymore. Every episode bashes you over the head with its social message, and it’s actually starting to take me out of it. And his comments about characters like Davros have been ludicrous.

You can tell that this isn’t 2005 RTD, but RTD following his discovery of Twitter.

 

[fogbadge]

Personally, I’ve not been particularly impressed with this series so far. RTD has never been subtle with his messaging, but he’s not even trying anymore. Every episode bashes you over the head with its social message, and it’s actually starting to take me out of it. And his comments about characters like Davros have been ludicrous.

You can tell that this isn’t 2005 RTD, but RTD following his discovery of Twitter.

personally i think RTD's first run had plenty of issues as well.

 

[Cheese&Chips]

personally i think RTD's first run had plenty of issues as well.

Didn't say it didn't. Doesn't mean this one doesn't have more.

 

[fogbadge]

Didn't say it didn't. Doesn't mean this one doesn't have more.

quite an achievement considering we're only 8 episodes in

 

[Cheese&Chips]

quite an achievement considering we're only 8 episodes in

So? If you're incapable of telling the quality of something after five consistent weeks of episodes, then that's on you. The five episodes of Doctor Who Unleashed have been embarrassing too. The higher ups seem to be worried too given that they had to resort to saying that it was the nice weather why a show airing at 6:50 PM UK time had unimpressive viewing figures.

 

[fogbadge]

So? If you're incapable of telling the quality of something after five consistent weeks of episodes, then that's on you. The five episodes of Doctor Who Unleashed have been embarrassing too. The higher ups seem to be worried too given that they had to resort to saying that it was the nice weather why a show airing at 6:50 PM UK time had unimpressive viewing figures.

what are you getting so hostile for? I was trying to offer some optimism as there’s space for improvement