Zelda Franchise Discussion

[Zuby]

I still don't think of this Link design as the Twilight Princess Link. It has the Skyward Sword colors, and TP / SS Link looked extremely similar after all. This is much like a Toon Link and Melee adult Link situation. Both are clearly based on Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time respectively, but still got major graphical updates. The extra pouches he has doesn't make him TP Link yet. Guess what items are new in SS anyway? That's right, pouches.

The blade being blue when swung is a clear nod to Skyward Sword to. And we already have a Skyloft stage (this one was a given though). I still see no reason to expect a TP styled Zelda yet. If anything, it could be a SS and TP hyrbid Zelda. Or a total new look for her. This could mean Sheik is still in, but it also doesn't rule out Impa as a separate character at all.

Someone did a comparison graphic in one of the other threads, and I think the only real difference was the leather over the gauntlets which was in Twilight Princess and not Skyward Sword. Like you say they look pretty similar, and for such a small detail I really don't think it's important.

And there's nothing revealed yet that suggests anything about Sheik or Impa.

EDIT: Ah, Spire posts the graphic I'm talking about while I'm typing this.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Then again, SS Link is basically a bigger Toon Link using TP's model. They still took most of the color pallete of from SS Link. There's also still Skyloft.

 

[Frostwraith]

SSB4 Link is basically a cel-shaded, Skyward Sword colored TP Link, so it's a blend of TP and SS Links.

 

[Spire]

There's Skyloft, but there's also Gerudo Valley and Spirit Train. This is not SS Link, I'm sorry. Doesn't mean Impa doesn't have a chance, this is just the design they chose for Link. As far as we know, the Zelda characters may take an array of inspiration from across the series. They can do anything they want, so we'll just have to wait and see. Diddy, you know I'm a diehard Impa supporter, but I won't blind myself to the fact that Link resembles TP, not SS Link just because I want to justify the likelihood of her inclusion with the aesthetic choice made for the series' hero.

And no, SSB4 Link is not cel-shaded at all. The 3DS version merely gives him outlines. You're mistaking "Skyward Sword color" for "vibrantly colored". Every character is more vibrant and saturated than they were before. Link is no exception, and furthermore, his coloring is not a reference to Skyward Sword but simply a coincidence. He's not a blend of TP and SS Link because he takes nothing from SS Link. He is TP Link made in higher-resolution with a more vibrant palette. That's it.

As a fan of SS Link, I was a bit disappointed, but I've grown past that. Just accept the reality and move on. Since the developers are so willing to take risks, maybe we'll get various costumes for Link based on his different appearances? Considering his appearance in A Link Between Worlds:

I'd say there's a chance we get costumes for OoT, TP, SS, and ALBW Links, all of which would sport the varied color tunics. This would be supreme.

Now, I would like to respond to Diddy's Zelda-centric post in the K. Rool thread because he asked for the discussion to be taken somewhere else:

Oh for ****s sake why the hell are you taking this here? My intend of my post was to raise morale for King K.Rool, yet you are here replying only on ONE sentance. Wonderful, just wonderful FalKoopz

To keep it short: Link is a TP and SS hybrid character, and seeing his reveal with the never seen before Hyrule Castle that clearly isn't from TP, he's pretty much Smash Link. And nothing more. He still has SS colors, the blue blade swings, and we have Skyloft and no TP stage. TP Link looked far more dark than this dude. It's simply... not him. You are all overhyped seeing that TP styled Zelda again, but it likely won't be her anyway. She's likely a SS / TP hybrid like Link. Yes, that COULD mean Sheik is still there. But does that mean Impa is deconfrimed? No.


My whole point wasn't talking about Impa anyway. More to make GoldenY shut up about his stupid ****, and again, raise morale from another fanbase that took a hit: the very one we're using his topic for discussing Link's design. Again. King K.Rool >>> Impa for me, and I've said that many times. Now take the Link and Zelda discussions somewhere else please.

The Hyrule Castle seen in the trailer is the exact same design as seen in TP. It does not seem to be geographically located in TP's Hyrule layout though, simply being centered amidst rolling hills. Regardless, it's not OoT or WW's Hyrule Castle, and it certainly isn't from any other title in the series. If it's any Hyrule Castle from the series, it's TP's. Link is not a hybrid of TP and SS—that claim is denial on your part. If the rest of the Zelda cast were to follow in his vein, they'd all be vibrant TP revamps. I feel however, that the developers will pay more attention to the entirety of the franchise (no TP stages suggests this much) so hope for the best and expect nothing.

 

[Sharkarat]

If we get Alternate costumes I want Ganondorf do have a Phantom ganon (OoT) Costume.

 

[LaniusShrike]

If we get Alternate costumes I want Ganondorf do have a Phantom ganon (OoT) Costume.

For sure. If we get alt costumes, I want Ganondorf to have
- Demise
- OoT Ganondorf
- Phantom Ganon
- Would Toon Ganondorf be asking too much?

It'd just be great if the alts represented the characters in all the different styles. I'm glad they picked a Brawl-like style for Link, but I wouldn't mind seeing his baggy-pants Skyward Sword appearance as an option.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, unless I see a Gale Boomerang I'm still calling it a hybrid SS / TP Link. Who are already the most similar Links in the Zelda universe I might add. His colors still match SS Link the most however.

Okay, Hyrule Castle might've been from TP, but I feel this Link is the least specific Link we ever got.

Which is great actually. I hope he gets a neutral Boomerang though, if he doesn't get the Skyward Strike (which isn't overpowered cause the Spin Attack can kill 10 Bokoblins to, easily).

Anyways, Zelda's look will probably determine the most. And I won't be here shouting Sheik won't get in if she doesn't get revealed immediately with Zelda, cause I had a bitter experience with that last time. (In Brawl, Sheik was the last veteran revealed who's not an unlockable). But I'll be rooting for Impa nonetheless.

I hope Ganondorf will get a OoT / TP hybrid look. Preferably with long hair to.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Well, unless I see a Gale Boomerang I'm still calling it a hybrid SS / TP Link. Who are already the most similar Links in the Zelda universe I might add. His colors still match SS Link the most however.

Okay, Hyrule Castle might've been from TP, but I feel this Link is the least specific Link we ever got.

Which is great actually. I hope he gets a neutral Boomerang though, if he doesn't get the Skyward Strike (which isn't overpowered cause the Spin Attack can kill 10 Bokoblins to, easily).

Anyways, Zelda's look will probably determine the most. And I won't be here shouting Sheik won't get in if she doesn't get revealed immediately with Zelda, cause I had a bitter experience with that last time. (In Brawl, Sheik was the last veteran revealed who's not an unlockable). But I'll be rooting for Impa nonetheless.

I hope Ganondorf will get a OoT / TP hybrid look. Preferably with long hair to.

I would think that you'd be happy to admit that Link is primarily a TP style... It might mean that leaves Impa to represent Skyward Sword.

I'm hoping Ganondorf gets a super slick redesign that incorporates elements of all of his designs. With SSB4's emphasis on primary colors, maybe Ganondorf will have flaming red hair, hah.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd brofist you for that one. Never thought about that one

 

[LaniusShrike]

I'd brofist you for that one. Never thought about that one

I thought you'd like that, haha.

I personally think that Link retaining the more realistic style is an indicator that Toon Link is still in and Sakurai thought it'd be best to keep the two as different stylistically as much as possible. I'm not worried for TL, especially with the Wind Waker HD focus.

 

[FalKoopa]

How do you guys come up with these theories? (>_>)

Though I'll add
Zelda to represent OoT.
Toon Link to represent Wind Waker.
Tingle to represent the spin-offs.

 

[Sharkarat]

On the topic of what link it is, do you see what bomb he holds here?

 

[Diddy Kong]

He's still not making Bomb Arrows with them. Also, the TP bombs are easily more realistic and fitting for an universal Link than SS's Bombflowers. I still don't see it as any proof.

Gale Boomerang or go back playing Brawl for TP (bottom tier) Link.

 

[LaniusShrike]

How do you guys come up with these theories? (>_>)

Though I'll add
Zelda to represent OoT.
Toon Link to represent Wind Waker.
Tingle to represent the spin-offs.

Easy! If it supports something that I want, it must be a good theory!

While we're spitballing, I'll say:
Impa for SS
Separated Sheik for OoT
Link, Separated Zelda, Ganondorf for whatever design most fits the overall feel of Smash Bros. (realistic)
Tingle... to represent Assist Trophies. (naw, I wouldn't be bothered if he got in. I'll be upset if he gets in and no other new Zelda characters do, though)
Toon Link for Tooniverse

... AND THEN VAATI TOO.
ALL THE ZELDA CHARACTERS.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What I'd personally like is:

Ganondorf: Ocarina of TIme / Twilight Princess / Other **** - mixed
Zelda: Skyward Sword / Princess Zelda mixed (no Sheik probably)
Impa: Skyward Sword's model, Deku Nuts for Ocarina of Time representation
Child / Toon / Classic Link: Whatever the hell is left

 

[Zuby]

On the topic of what link it is, do you see what bomb he holds here?

He's also left-handed again, which he wasn't in Skyward Sword but was in the GC version of Twilight Princess, and Brawl.

 

[Spire]

Alright, my turn!

• Link: Vibrant TP.
• Zelda: Vibrant TP a la Link.
• Impa: SS design with "Vibrant TP" textures.
• Ganondorf: WW design with "Vibrant TP" textures.
• Toon Link: Vibrant TP textures.
• Ghirahim: SS design with "Vibrant TP" textures.

Note: When I say "Vibrant TP", I refer to how Link's textures in SM4SH resemble his TP look, but are higher resolution and more vibrant. By the same leaf, one could say Toon Link's textures in Brawl were "TP" textures, to match his look to his TP counterparts instead of presenting him in cel-shaded glory. As such, I believe all Zelda characters will adopt a textural uniform akin to Link, regardless of what game they base their designs from. Considering Link is not a hybrid aesthetically (though his moveset may reflect items from SS and the like), I would not assume other Zelda characters will be 'hybrids'. The only 'hybrid' Zelda character they've had in Smash before was Toon Link, and that's because his original appearance was cel-shaded, a clashing style with the overall uniform of Smash.
SSB64: OoT Link
Melee: OoT Link, Zelda, Sheik, and Young Link; Spaceworld Ganondorf
Brawl: TP Link, Zelda, Sheik (unused design), Ganondorf; WW-TP Toon Link
SM4SH: Vibrant TP Link... ?

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

What I'd personally like is:

Ganondorf: Ocarina of TIme / Twilight Princess / Other **** - mixed
Zelda: Skyward Sword / Princess Zelda mixed (no Sheik probably)
Impa: Skyward Sword's model, Deku Nuts for Ocarina of Time representation

Alright, my turn!
Ghirahim: SS design with "Vibrant TP" textures.

My wishlist is actually those parts of both of yours combined lol (with the link we now have of course). Since we didnt get all SS designs, the next good option id say is the some from every corner, and i think TP link with SS colors could coexist pretty well with SS zelda if they make them look cohesive enough. Im gonna be pretty disappointed though if they are all just TP again and remain unchanged, thats far too much tradtion for tradtions sake IMO.

 

[SirGalvan]

Honestly I can not see them cutting Shiek for Impa.

She has been in two games in the series, and she is a very popular character within the smash series so why would they cut her. Also this whole will they cut her or not cut her seems like a horrible flashback of preBrawl were this same topic was brought up.

 

[yullow321]

King bulbin as an assist trophy

 

[Spire]

Honestly I can not see them cutting Shiek for Impa.

She has been in two games in the series, and she is a very popular character within the smash series so why would they cut her. Also this whole will they cut her or not cut her seems like a horrible flashback of preBrawl were this same topic was brought up.

Except now they have a viable reason instead of, "Sheik does not have a Twilight Princess design". They've proved that if a character doesn't have a fitting design, they'll make one. Impa definitely has a chance, we've gone over this so many times now. Not saying the chance is even 50/50, but it's high enough that Sheik fans should be concerned. Also: there is the possibility that Impa will get in alongside Sheik, but I believe that possibility is lower than a single choice between the two.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Note that Sheik isn't even a full character on her own, Zelda is still the main character. And Impa wasn't around for a viable replacement during pre-Brawl. Her popularity heavily declined in Brawl as well.

 

[grizby2]

watch in astonishment when ghirahim gets sheiks entire moveset

im actually hoping warthog ganon makes it in this time.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ghirahim could also infact easily inherrit a little of Sheik's moves. And Impa could inherrit the rest. Ghirahim's projectiles already quite work like Sheik's Needlestorm anyway.

 

[LaniusShrike]

watch in astonishment when ghirahim gets sheiks entire moveset

im actually hoping warthog ganon makes it in this time.

Engh. Here's to hoping that Skyward Sword is never turned into a live action movie.

Warthog Ganon, eh? I'll be honest, that's one LoZ character that I don't really want. I really like him as Gdorf's Final Smash.

 

[grizby2]

Engh. Here's to hoping that Skyward Sword is never turned into a live action movie.

Warthog Ganon, eh? I'll be honest, that's one LoZ character that I don't really want. I really like him as Gdorf's Final Smash.

well that can still be his final smash, but I meant more along the lines of an anthropromorphic warthog ganon mixed with the toon ganon, along with a trident.
I know a lot of people don't think much of warthog ganon, but they can REALLY make him look fantastic in that way if they did it right! if I have time I should attempt to draw my vision of it.
he can still have magical attributes (which is what I really want him to have) and the trident can have its own uses which could give him an entirely different moveset. I think its a great way to make ganon look AND feel fresh. idk, maybe im the only one that wants warthog ganon.

 

[LaniusShrike]

well that can still be his final smash, but I meant more along the lines of an anthropromorphic warthog ganon mixed with the toon ganon, along with a trident.
I know a lot of people don't think much of warthog ganon, but they can REALLY make him look fantastic in that way if they did it right! if I have time I should attempt to draw my vision of it.
he can still have magical attributes (which is what I really want him to have) and the trident can have its own uses which could give him an entirely different moveset. I think its a great way to make ganon look AND feel fresh. idk, maybe im the only one that wants warthog ganon.

Gotcha, gotcha. Well, I kind of like the truly bestial form of Ganon over the werehog form. I like thinking of his beast-mode as Ganondorf just completely losing himself and giving into his rage, and the less human that is, the better. It just makes more sense to me.

I do like the trident, though. Wouldn't mind it if a human-form Ganondorf was wielding a Trident of Power in the next Zelda game.

He easily could do that in A Link Between Worlds, actually.

 

[grizby2]

I can definitely settle for that. 100%

 

[Spire]

Ganondorf needs a moveset based around Trident-wielding and magic-casting. His Final Smash would transform him into classic beast Ganon, able to quickly swing the Trident around for massive damage. It's so obvious Sakurai, come on you can do it.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Ganondorf needs a moveset based around Trident-wielding and magic-casting. His Final Smash would transform him into classic beast Ganon, able to quickly swing the Trident around for massive damage. It's so obvious Sakurai, come on you can do it.

The problem with that is Ganondorf never wielded the trident while in human form, so it would be even less representative of his appearances than his current moveset is.

Unfortunate, since a trident would be unique and awesome. I just don't think it'll happen.

... it'd be great, though.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

The problem with that is Ganondorf never wielded the trident while in human form, so it would be even less representative of his appearances than his current moveset is.

Unfortunate, since a trident would be unique and awesome. I just don't think it'll happen.

... it'd be great, though.

Well phantom ganon did have that trident/spear/pike

 

[ChozoBoy]

If he returns with his standard moveset, I'd like to see him incorporate his sword into his neutral special so it is a stab instead of a punch.

Might be cool to see him as a retextured Demise.

 

[Kamiko]

Well phantom ganon did have that trident/spear/pike

OoT Ganon with that weapon and magic is basically my ideal Ganon battle. MAKE IT HAPPEN, NINTENDO!

 

[LaniusShrike]

Well phantom ganon did have that trident/spear/pike

Awesome picture. I'm not sure I'd say that counts for human Gdorf wielding a trident, but I'd be totally fine if Sakurai does.

I always forget about that weapon being considered a trident... since it's so long, the side-blades are shorter, and he wields it from horseback I always think of it as more of a polearm/halberd than a trident.

I kind of want Trident-Ganondorf's standards to all be animations that make sense with just his fist being swung or with a trident held, and then have a special move where he throws his trident to pin down enemies and can choose to retrieve it afterwards. With the trident, his standards would be Ike-ish, and without they'd be a little faster but with less range.

So... what do folks think the chances of Vaati being reintroduced in any of the upcoming games is? I've said elsewhere that I like the thought of him being a secret boss in Wind Waker HD, and timeline-wise it could make sense for him to be in A Link Between Worlds.

 

[grizby2]

the picture of ganondorf reminds me of Lu bu riding Red hare.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How about we ***** more about Link's design? I'm ready to bash some more people claiming this Link is definitely Twilight Princess Link.

 

[FalKoopa]

How about we ***** more about Link's design? I'm ready to bash some more people claiming this Link is definitely Twilight Princess Link.

I can claim this is definitely based on TP Link more than any other Link in the series. Boots, Hat, Earrings, Shield, Sword, Belt, and Pants.

His face does seem similar to Melee Link (and by extension OoT Link), as Swampasaur pointed out.

Honestly, the only thing similar to SS Link are the colours of his tunic and pants.

Come at me bro.

Btw, what design do you expect for Zelda and Ganondorf?

 

[LaniusShrike]

I can claim this is definitely based on TP Link more than any other Link in the series. Boots, Hat, Earrings, Shield, Sword, Belt, and Pants.

His face does seem similar to Melee Link (and by extension OoT Link), as Swampasaur pointed out.

Honestly, the only thing similar to SS Link are the colours of his tunic and pants.

Come at me bro.

Btw, what design do you expect for Zelda and Ganondorf?

Well, seeing as Link is 100% just TP Link with his style updated to match the more colorful style of SSB4, I expect the same from Zelda and Ganondorf. That's awesome for Zelda, I think her TP design is the coolest... and that's fine for Ganondorf. I like his head/hair, but his body design could use a makeover.

 

[TheTuninator]

I don't expect SS Zelda as SS Zelda is such a drastic deviation from her other popular designs. I could see either a hybridized "Smash" Zelda with a mix of OoT and TP's style, or a TP Zelda in Smash 4's style, but as Link was not wholly inspired by SS in both outfit and coloring I cannot imagine that Zelda will be.

TP Zelda is my favorite, so I am pretty OK with that, especially if we keep the OoT color swap.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Hey guys, I'm updating and trying to reboot the Vaati support thread. Does anybody know of any good arguments against Vaati?