You can ledge grab with Doc's dash attack?!

[Mr.Lemon]

I don't know if I've been in the dark all these years and nobody has told me this, but I just found out Doc has a dash attack ledge grab. Does everyone else know about this? I find it useful when I hit someone off of the opposite side of the stage and instead of running to that side of the stage and stopping to turn around to edgehog them I can just dash attack ledge grab the edge.

If you don't know how to do it, just dash attack so the animation continues to the edge of the stage and when the animation ends move the joystick to the center of the stage. If done correctly Doc will automatically grab the edge and it will look like this:

It also works in PM too (and is waayyyyyy easier to do)

I also found out that this also works for Mario as well as Doc. As far as I know it works on all neutral stages including Yoshi's Story with those weird angled edges it has.

So do people already know about this and/or use it?!?!

 

[Stake]

This is really cool thanks for showing it, I haven't seen it before but you probably want opinions from others too lol xD.

 

[Superw0rri0]

Dafuuuuuuuu.... *loads up melee on dolphin*

Edit:
new tech skill!!! At least I've never heard or seen this before....
Can we please give it an awesome name? Also you can do it on platforms or any other edge. I feel like it makes dash attack a little more safe.

 

[Mr.Lemon]

Dafuuuuuuuu.... *loads up melee on dolphin*

Edit:
new tech skill!!! At least I've never heard or seen this before....
Can we please give it an awesome name? Also you can do it on platforms or any other edge. I feel like it makes dash attack a little more safe.

I haven't tried it on platforms, let me know if anything happens

Haha I think I'm just going to start to call it "The Lemon Grab"

 

[Superw0rri0]

I haven't tried it on platforms, let me know if anything happens

Haha I think I'm just going to start to call it "The Lemon Grab"

Basically what happens is you fall off the platform but facing the opposite direction... it's good because you are actually falling off sooner than you normally would with dash attacking then letting the animation finish then falling
off normally.

You should also try fast falling after the drop... maybe it'll grab faster?

Then can we call the platform version The Super Drop? XD

Or we can be lame and call it a dash attack canceled ledge grab DACLG and the platform version dash attack canceled platform drop DACPD
or
Dash Attack Ledge Grab DALG, Dash Attack Drop DAD

 

[Thor]

Seems like it could be some new edgeguarding trick... you throw dash attack out, and can hit them and then instantly be on the ledge... though Doc/Mario can edgeguard way better than that [and I think it sends them inward, although if you stage spike someone this would be pretty cool anyway). Style points at least (or for knocking someone defending the ledge away in teams while then subsequently grabbing the ledge - actual utility?). Also seems like a way to make a missed dash attack near the ledge safer (Mario offstage? They just committed to a whiffed attack. Onstage still? They waited and so don't get to punish dash attack [nearly as hard]... Or opponent got the read and Mario's stuck on the ledge or eating damage, but that's life).

If this really is new, it's 2014 and people are discovering stuff about Melee still. Wow.

Has this been tested with other character's dash attacks?

 

[Superw0rri0]

@ Thor tried playing around with other characters but I'm not in tune with them as much as doc so I really couldn't get any thing. I have a feeling this is a doc and mario exculsive

Also... can we get frame data on this... like which frame you have to do the input to get the drop

 

[Mr.Lemon]

Seems like it could be some new edgeguarding trick... you throw dash attack out, and can hit them and then instantly be on the ledge... though Doc/Mario can edgeguard way better than that [and I think it sends them inward, although if you stage spike someone this would be pretty cool anyway). Style points at least (or for knocking someone defending the ledge away in teams while then subsequently grabbing the ledge - actual utility?). Also seems like a way to make a missed dash attack near the ledge safer (Mario offstage? They just committed to a whiffed attack. Onstage still? They waited and so don't get to punish dash attack [nearly as hard]... Or opponent got the read and Mario's stuck on the ledge or eating damage, but that's life).

If this really is new, it's 2014 and people are discovering stuff about Melee still. Wow.

Has this been tested with other character's dash attacks?

I tried it with a couple other characters but could only get it to work with Doc and Mario

 

[Max?]

This is new to me. Don't know if it's possible, but you should try and bair instead of grabbing the ledge, could be REALLY jank.

As for a name, let's keep it simple. DALG works for me, but I'm fine with Lemon Grab lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Can you better explain the input required to get this to happen? I tried this for awhile with both the emulator and non-emulator (lol real game) and could not get this to work. At the very least its not something as simply as dash attack into a ledge and hold towards the center stage and expect it to work. However, it could be something regarding the version of the game or perhaps a color mario. I know that some certain captain falcon color can only do some Dsmash thing on Peach's Castle.

 

[Mr.Lemon]

This is new to me. Don't know if it's possible, but you should try and bair instead of grabbing the ledge, could be REALLY jank.

As for a name, let's keep it simple. DALG works for me, but I'm fine with Lemon Grab lol

Oh wow that's a good idea, I'll play around with that.

Can you better explain the input required to get this to happen? I tried this for awhile with both the emulator and non-emulator (lol real game) and could not get this to work. At the very least its not something as simply as dash attack into a ledge and hold towards the center stage and expect it to work. However, it could be something regarding the version of the game or perhaps a color mario. I know that some certain captain falcon color can only do some Dsmash thing on Peach's Castle.

I haven't tried it on an emulator, I'd stick to the actual game because I know for sure it works on that. But try moving the joystick towards the stage right before the dash attack animation ends like within a few frames. Also, try it on PM it's super easy to get it there and maybe you'll get a feel for it.

 

[SmashMac]

Wow Mr. Lemon. It's been a while since I've learned something new with Doc. I gotta try this out. Good job and thanks.

 

[Monkley6]

Can you better explain the input required to get this to happen? I tried this for awhile with both the emulator and non-emulator (lol real game) and could not get this to work. At the very least its not something as simply as dash attack into a ledge and hold towards the center stage and expect it to work. However, it could be something regarding the version of the game or perhaps a color mario. I know that some certain captain falcon color can only do some Dsmash thing on Peach's Castle.

Just tried it, and could get it to work. As far as I can tell, you just press the joystick inward to the stage at the very end of the dash attack animation. As to whether it's actually during the DA animation or if it's just barely after, idk. I did this on a "real game" btw.
It's hilarious how simplistic it is to execute, to not have been noticed before now...

Edit: Just using pause-buffering to mess around and test, it seems like it's somewhere during the IASA frames at the end of the dash attack. Using the same visual cues while pausing, (when he's about half-way standing back up after the slide) I was able to jump & attack as well, but pressing back toward the stage made me pop off of it.

 

[crush]

the lemon grab is too real. definitely useful technique.

 

[SmashMac]

Yes. Lemon Hog to Hidago finished with a Bob$. Congratulations my fellow Doc. players. We have successfully turned describing our character specific meta to sounding like a pizza order when describing to others. (just kidding ).

I actually like the Lemon Grab term. Maybe Lemon Guard or Lemon Hog would be more appropriate, but it's catchy either way.

 

[TechMage299]

The future...
~Hax, 20XX

 

[Mr.Lemon]

lol I'm still pushing for Lemon Grab. It makes sense since you're grabbing the edge and it's a character from Adventure Time!

 

[Kadano]

That’s an example of making use of edge-retained momentum by doing a smash turn followed by a dash attempt (the dash gets ledge canceled and prevented, though). I discovered similar ways to do it (with Fox’s jab and Marth’s dtilt, for example) and I’m sure others have as well for many years.

It’s not really useful with Mario/Doc for grabbing the ledge alone. At max distance, it takes 43 frames until you are airborne. If you use dash wavedash to tilt turn, it’s only 26 frames. If you want to land the dash attack as well, it seems fine, though.

 

[krazyzyko]

Never heard of it. This is awesome!
As for a name, how about Da hug?
(DA = Dash Attack)

Edit: I used it for a bit and it seems useless because jump > cape is faster.

 

[fox4729]

Techniques like this are part of the reason I love playing Doc.

Up B Cancel and The Lemon Grab are the bread and butter of the 2014 Doctor Mario player.

 

[Monkley6]

Techniques like this are part of the reason I love playing Doc.

Up B Cancel and The Lemon Grab are the bread and butter of the 2014 Doctor Mario player.

I just want to say... god damn man! How do you join in 2007 and login SEVEN YEARS LATER to post once? Bravo to you.
On a related note, I like the way this technique looks, but idk that I'll ever use it lol

 

[RoA_Zam]

If you use dash wavedash to tilt turn, it’s only 26 frames. If you want to land the dash attack as well, it seems fine, though.

Even if you wanted to land the dash attack, the time from the attack ending to you grabbing the ledge to you reacting after is more than enough time for hitstun to wear off on the opponent. Its hard enough getting consistent in guaranteeing you'll do it properly to be effectively used also haha.

EDIT: On Stadium I got one on top of the rock formation and then immediately got another one on the little cracked part of the rock that has a ledge. I rused my friend hard.

 

[fox4729]

I just want to say... god damn man! How do you join in 2007 and login SEVEN YEARS LATER to post once? Bravo to you.
On a related note, I like the way this technique looks, but idk that I'll ever use it lol

It took perseverance and a deep love for Doc's flare in Melee but the wait was well worth it.

Another part of my reason for playing him is his exclusion from Brawl and his inclusion in PM.

 

[Scarlet Bean]

Tested it with Luigi, and it works for him aswell

 

[hectohertz]

That’s an example of making use of Ottotto-retained momentum by doing a smash turn followed by a dash attempt (the dash gets ledge canceled and prevented, though). I discovered similar ways to do it (with Fox’s jab and Marth’s dtilt, for example) and I’m sure others have as well for many years.

It’s not really useful with Mario/Doc for grabbing the ledge alone. At max distance, it takes 43 frames until you are airborne. If you use dash wavedash to tilt turn, it’s only 26 frames. If you want to land the dash attack as well, it seems fine, though.

interesting. does this work with sheik? her dash-attack moves her pretty far


@ Mr.Lemon good find keep advancing that doc meta

 

[NME]

can mario do this?

 

[343]

can mario do this?

from the OP:

I also found out that this also works for Mario as well as Doc. As far as I know it works on all neutral stages including Yoshi's Story with those weird angled edges it has.

 

[darkoblivion12]

This is also a Roy tech. I didn't know any other characters could do it.

 

[SoUh^5]

I've been in a cave my whole life.

 

[Marilink]

What kinds of situations would this be useful for as opposed to just reverse wavedashing? It's a really cool tech, I'm wondering how I could implement it!

 

[Mr.Lemon]

What kinds of situations would this be useful for as opposed to just reverse wavedashing? It's a really cool tech, I'm wondering how I could implement it!

Not sure yet tbh, maybe some kind of turn around b.air off of the ledge or any ledge I guess.

 

[TechMage299]

It may be a little late, but Ganon in PM can perform this with ease.

 

[JipC]

Supa late too but damn the window is really tight for it. Anyone found any good visual/audio cues to help? Havent tried it in PM

 

[DanlulZ]

wicked tech just figured it out in training in a few minutes definitely going to be fun to use

 

[dahuterschuter]

Neat. Good way to edgehog quickly, throwing a hitbox in there for the fun of it on the way.

 

[Hobs_]

I have trouble trying to execute it, maybe it's harder in PAL?

 

[CoffeeB1ack]

Faster way to grab ledge? Signed me up. I simply been doing turn-around wavedash to grab ledge now I can throw out a hitbox to protect myself sweet.

 

[hectohertz]

Faster way to grab ledge? Signed me up. I simply been doing turn-around wavedash to grab ledge now I can throw out a hitbox to protect myself sweet.

this is a lot slower than a wd->turn, or wd->smashturn->wd

 

[MudkipUniverse]

lemon grab AFAIK works with roy, mario, dr. mario, and luigi. Too lazy to actually test it out.

back when I played Doc alot as a secondary I got the lemon grab fairly often but never really applied it to anything.

 

[Squid Kid]

Wow, Doc has even more hidden abilities.