Wuhu Island: Stage Research

[ParanoidDrone]

By popular request, I'm covering Wuhu Island. The next stage will be Mushroom Kingdom U, at which point it's all up for grabs again. If you want me to do a specific stage, speak up!

Shoutouts to @Amazing Ampharos for his post on this stage in the Stage Discussion thread, which helped kick start my own research and alerted me to a few quirks I wouldn't have noticed otherwise.

Previously Covered
Mario Circuit

Layout
Wuhu Island is a fairly standard "touring" stage in the style of Delfino Plaza. A main platform carries players around a given area and stops at various points of interest for players to fight. A short time later the platform comes again and whisks everyone off to their next adventure.

Also like Delfino Plaza, the main platform has varying platform arrangements overhead. Unlike Delfino Plaza, the primary platform also varies instead of keeping a constant shape. These changes will be detailed later in their own section.

Contrary to first impressions, Wuhu Island follows a distinct pattern when travelling around the island. This pattern will be explained further below.

Players 1 and 2 start near the edges of the starting platform, while Players 3 and 4 start closer to the middle. The Omega form floats over a void.

Wuhu Island has a few damaging stage hazards, but all of them are tied to specific transformations and will be explained alongside them, instead of getting their own section.

Main Platform
The main platform that carries players around Wuhu Island has 4 different forms. In all cases, the primary platform has grabbable ledges and can be jumped through from below.

Name|Picture|Notes
Platform 1|

|Starting platform setup, carries players to the first location. Also appears after the fourth location to come back to the start before beginning another tour.
Platform 2|

|Carries players from the first location to the second.
Platform 3|

|Carries players from the second location to the third.
Platform 4|

|Carries players from the third location to the fourth. Outer edges of side platforms can be grabbed.

Points of Interest
There are a total of 9 points of interest where the stage can stop and let players off. Each stop lasts approximately 15 seconds total. A large flashing sign appears 5 seconds in advance of the stage moving on.

Name|Picture|Notes
Arena|

|Walled sides. A stage hazard appears as the platform moves to this location, although the arena itself is hazard free. See the Island Tour section below for details.
Bridge|

|Walkoff on both sides. All gaps have grabbable ledges. Bridge can be jumped through from below. Landing on the bridge causes the whole thing to bounce slightly.
Jet Ski Race|

|Water below instead of void. Upper ledges are grabbable, lower ledges on buoys are not. Entire structure sways gently from side to side.
Rocks|

|Water below instead of void. Rightmost ledge is grabbable, all others are not.
Boat|

|Water below instead of void. Shortly after landing, boat powers on and drives around the water. Landing in the water while boat is in motion pulls players to the left after they surface and tread water. Colliding with prow of boat while boat is in motion does 100% damage and spikes players for an instant kill. Glitch allows certain characters to instantly kill their opponent when using specific throws on the front of the boat, notably Ness (vs. Villager/Wario only), Lucario, and Pikachu. (This has been fixed as of the 1.0.6 update.)
Beach|

|Walkoff on both sides. Left half of beach slopes gently downward, difficult to see in picture.
Volcano|

|All platforms have grabbable ledges and can be jumped through from below. Platform sizes are slightly asymmetrical.
Fountain|

|Fountain edges allow players to walk over them. Fountain centerpiece exerts upward force on airborne fighters within the spray but does not affect grounded fighters. Characters with sufficiently low fall speed can remain suspended indefinitely. Pushing effect also enhances jumps.
Cliff|

|Walkoff on left side. A single balloon rises from offscreen on the right, explodes for 10% damage on contact. Kill % varies depending on height at moment of impact, starts being dangerous to Mario at 175% when hit from left side.
Alert Sign|

|The sign that appears to warn players the stage is about to move on. Appears 5 seconds in advance.

Island Tour
Although it may not be obvious at first glance, Wuhu Island follows a pattern when moving around the island.

When the stage begins, Platform 1 is over the ocean. After visiting the first location, Platform 2 appears to carry players to the second location. Platform 3 brings them to the third, and Platform 4 moves them to the fourth. Platform 1 then appears again, moves to the same starting location over the ocean, and another tour begins.

(For details on Platforms 1-4, see the Main Platform section above.)

The individual locations the stage stops at also follow a pattern. The first location is always either the Arena or the Bridge. If going to the Arena, the stage skims over the water. Touching the water at this point does 5% damage and kills Mario at 347%. Over successive tours, the stage alternates between the Arena and Bridge for the first location.

The second location is one of the Jet Ski Race, the Rocks, or the Boat. The exact one chosen depends somewhat on the first location. The Rocks only come after the Arena, while the Boat only comes after the Bridge. The Jet Ski Race can come no matter what location was visited first. However, over 4 successive tours the stage is guaranteed to visit the Jet Ski Race twice and the Rocks and Boat once each.

The third location is simpler. The stage will visit either the Beach or the Volcano. Over successive tours, the stage can either do a simple alternating pattern or it can visit the same location twice before visiting the other location twice. Which pattern it chooses seems to be random, but will not vary over the course of a single match.

The final location is also simple. The stage can visit the Fountain or the Cliff, and like the third location can either alternate between the two over successive tours or visit one for two tours in a row before visiting the other for the next two tours. Also like the third location, the pattern will not vary once the match starts.

Overall the patterns exhibited by the stage allow an astute player to predict what location will be visited next. Although learning the exact pattern requires quite a few stops to be made first, the fact that each stop can only be at 2 or 3 possible locations greatly helps narrow down one's focus. To help illustrate the different patterns that can appear, here are 4 that have been observed in testing and data collection:

Spoiler: Pattern 1

1. Bridge, Boat, Beach, Cliff
2. Arena, Jet Ski Race, Beach, Fountain
3. Bridge, Jet Ski Race, Volcano, Cliff
4. Arena, Rocks, Volcano, Fountain

Spoiler: Pattern 2

1. Bridge, Jet Ski Race, Volcano, Fountain
2. Arena, Jet Ski Race, Beach, Fountain
3. Bridge, Boat, Beach, Cliff
4. Arena, Rocks, Volcano, Cliff

Spoiler: Pattern 3

1. Arena, Rocks, Volcano, Fountain
2. Bridge, Jet Ski Race, Volcano, Cliff
3. Arena, Jet Ski Race, Beach, Fountain
4. Bridge, Boat, Beach, Cliff

Spoiler: Pattern 4

1. Bridge, Jet Ski Race, Beach, Cliff
2. Arena, Rocks, Volcano, Fountain
3. Bridge, Boat, Beach, Fountain
4. Arena, Jet Ski Race, Volcano, Cliff

Note that this is not an exhaustive sample of possible patterns and is merely for illustrative purposes.

Summary

• Players start on the first of 4 different platform layouts. See the Main Platform section for details.
• Each successive platform carries players off to the next transformation in order until looping back to the first.
• Total of 9 different locations the stage can stop at. See the Points of Interest section for details and relevant hazards.
• Stage follows a pattern when moving around the island, see the Island Tour section for details.
• First location is either Arena or Bridge.
  
• Second location is Jet Ski Race, Rocks, or Boat.
• Third location is Beach or Volcano.
• Fourth location is Fountain or Cliff.
• Stage does another 4 location tour after returning to start position over water.
• Nature of patterns means stage loops completely after 4 tours.

 

[Piford]

Great post. I noticed there was some kind of pattern, but now this saves me from being annoyed about not figuring it out.

 

[DeLux]

I want to reiterate just how appreciative I am of you putting in this kind of effort into the game. If we ever end up at a tournament at the same location, let me know and lunch is on me.

 

[Conda]

Love this series of threads, keep it up.

Wuhu island is a super fun stage to play on and watch. It's super wide, and the transformations are really interesting. I love what Delfino did to the series - it made Sakurai realise these kinds of stages are awesome and we need a bajillion of them in Smash 4. Though I do wish prism tower will be ported to the Wii U.

Tournament footage is rare on this stage, I think a lot of people are still a little nervous about fighting on it since it's so new and much more dynamic than Skyloft/Delfino. Here's a fight:

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I want to reiterate just how appreciative I am of you putting in this kind of effort into the game. If we ever end up at a tournament at the same location, let me know and lunch is on me.

Senpai noticed me!

But in all honesty I do this because I'm a stage liberal who's tired of people calling for stage bans so soon after release because they look weird or because someone lost so of course it's the stage itself that's the problem and not their lack of knowledge or anything like that. </sarcasm> That said I do understand the importance of the scientific method and gathering objective data is a huge part of that so this is me trying to do my part.

Also Louisiana is...not known for its Smash scene last I checked, so my other credentials are quite lacking. (And my current internet is kind of bad unless I'm the only one online late at night or something.) Hence research, that's always useful no matter who's doing it.

 

[David_give]

Just wanted to post here to say, I have been able to recreate the boat glitch with Ness's downthrow against both Wario and VIllager. I believe Ness has to be facing to the left, and either Ness's postion or the timing of the boat is super tricky, I can maybe trigger the glitch 1 out of 8 tries at best.

 

[Pazx]

What's the stage hazard tied to the Arena?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

What's the stage hazard tied to the Arena?

As the main platform setup moves towards it, it skims over the water. The water does light damage and kills at obscenely high percents, i.e. not a threat.

 

[Cenizas]

Do you know how long each transformation lasts and how long it takes for the platforms to carry you from destination to destination?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Do you know how long each transformation lasts and how long it takes for the platforms to carry you from destination to destination?

There are a total of 9 points of interest where the stage can stop and let players off. Each stop lasts approximately 15 seconds total. A large flashing sign appears 5 seconds in advance of the stage moving on.

As for the time between, it varies depending on where the stage is coming from and going. I'd guesstimate 5-10 seconds?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Update. @Rysir has produced a video showing that Lucario can also take advantage of the down throw instant kill glitch on the boat transformation. Unlike Ness, it works on characters other than Villager and Wario. Youtube link.

@ Slyshock has also made a video demonstrating the same glitch as Pikachu vs. Charizard. Youtube link.

 

[Slyshock]

As of the 1.0.6 patch, the Wuhu Island boat glitch has seemingly been fixed, having yet to be recreated through the already established methods of performance.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

As of the 1.0.6 patch, the Wuhu Island boat glitch has seemingly been fixed, having yet to be recreated through the already established methods of performance.

That's good to hear. Given how finicky the glitch was in the first place, has it actually been shown that it's fixed completely?

 

[Piford]

That's good to hear. Given how finicky the glitch was in the first place, has it actually been shown that it's fixed completely?

I tested for hours trying to get it and it didn't work. It's kind of hard to prove 100% that it's gone, but I'm pretty sure its gone and if it isn't at least it's much much harder to perform. I'd just say it's removed until someone can prove it otherwise.

 

[Ulevo]

So I have come to the conclusion that Wuhu Island should not be legal. This is on the basis that the stage is too large.

I have played on the stage plenty of times now, and while I had the inclination that the stage was too big, posts like this one...

Wuhu's blastzones are actually fairly average, for the most part. The ceiling is extremely mundane, at least during most segments; the blastzones to the left and right of the stage are only large when you factor in its overall length. From my experience, people don't live that much longer there. Sure, it's kind of slow and campy, but is that really a reason to ban a stage? Why?

...prompted me to test it objectively, otherwise I wouldn't have a factual basis to state otherwise. So, I've done some tests.

I performed three kinds of tests. The first test was to test kill % using Mario's uncharged Forward Smash on another Mario at the edge of the stage (Mario in his tipping animation). The kill counted towards results as long as Mario entered the side blastzone, indicated by a horizontal blast animation, not a diagonal one. The second test was using Mewtwo's up throw on a Mario. Mewtwo was chosen thanks to the up throws straight trajectory, and throws were always performed on the base stage, not a platform. The third test performed was to compare the relative length of the various transformations in Wuhu. This was done by using Captain Falcon's up tilt to travel the length of the stage. Each up tilt counts as 1 unit.

For each of these tests, fixed camera was used, with Mario set to control with no DI used.

Before posting the results, here are some relevant bench marks:

Horizontal Blastzone Kill %'s:

Big Battlefield: 65%
Battlefield: 72%
Smashville: 64%
Final Destination: 65%

Vertical Blastzone Kill %'s:

Big Battlefield: 154%
Battlefield: 141%
Smashville: 133%
Final Destination: 133%

Travel Units:

Big Battlefield: 51 Units (7 Luigi Back Rolls)
Battlefield: 31 Units
Smashville: 28 Units
Final Destination: 34 Units

Big Battlefield was chosen as a bench mark to help illustrate what a large but otherwise legal stage might look like, size wise, while the other three were for comparison against healthy legal stages.

Name|Picture|Notes
Platform 1|

|Horizontal Kill %: 60 Vertical Kill %: 141 Travel Units: 41
Platform 2|

|Horizontal Kill %: 60 Vertical Kill %: 131 Travel Units: 40
Platform 3|

|Horizontal Kill %: 60 Vertical Kill %: 141 Travel Units: 41
Platform 4|

|Horizontal Kill %: 60 Vertical Kill %: 141 Travel Units: 41

Name|Picture|Notes
Arena|

|Horizontal Kill %: 76 Vertical Kill %: 141 Travel Units: 38
Bridge|

|Horizontal Kill %: Walk Off Vertical Kill %: 135 Travel Units: Too Long
Jet Ski Race|

|Horizontal Kill %: 80 Vertical Kill %: 128 Travel Units: 30
Rocks|

|Horizontal Kill %: 78 R, 70 L Vertical Kill %: 155 Travel Units: 32
Boat|

|Horizontal Kill %: 68 L, 66 R Vertical Kill %: 129 Travel Units: 31*
Beach|

|Horizontal Kill %: Walk Off Vertical Kill %: 141 Travel Units: Too Long
Volcano|

|Horizontal Kill %: 52 Vertical Kill %: 148 Travel Units: 18 Each Side
Fountain|

|Horizontal Kill %: Walk Off Vertical Kill %: 142 Travel Units: 27 Each Side
Cliff|

|Horizontal Kill %: 81 Vertical Kill %: 142 Travel Units: 42

So, looking at this, what can we conclude?

All four platform transformations are relatively the same size wise, with the #3 having high platforms and platform #2 having a slightly lower blastzone ceiling. 3/4 of them having the same blastzone height as Battlefield, known for having a relatively high ceiling. While the blastzones at the edge of the platforms is relatively average, the stage platforms are not, boasting 41 units, making it larger than Final Destination, and much larger than Smashville, horizontally. Overall, the relative horizontal size from centre stage to blastzone is likely close to Battlefield. This isn't too bad with the exception of platform #3's open layout, which can make it hard for certain characters to give chase.

Arena is larger than Battlefield, boasting 7 more units of stage space and larger horizontal blastzones. While it shares the same vertical ceiling size, it has no platforms to mitigate this problem for characters that KO vertically.

The Bridge is massive. It's a walk off with tons of horizontal room, and for obvious reasons was not tested for travel units or horizontal kill %. Vertically the ceiling is higher than Final Destination and Smashville. It is not higher than Battlefield, but again, no platforms to supplement the difference.

Jet Ski Race is okay. It's roughly the length of Battlefield, however its horizontal blastzones are deceivingly bigger, killing 8% later than usual. The vertical blastzone is quite low here by comparison. Overall this transformation is okay. Despite the larger sides, the smallness of the main platform makes engaging the opponent easy.

Rocks is very big. It has a higher ceiling than even big Battlefield, and side blastzones almost as large or larger than regular Battlefield depending on which side you're on. This might seem okay with the 31 units of stage space, however this measurement did not account for the water space in the middle, which could not be accurately tested. Overall, it's likely closer to 40+ units. Unnecessarily big transformation.

Boat is fine. Nothing to complain about regarding this transformation.

Beach is stupid. Travel units and horizontal kill %'s not done for obvious reasons.

Volcano boasts high blastzones, killing roughly 7% later than on Battlefield, again with no platforms to supplement the issue. Horizontal kill %'s were low at 52%, but this was done at the bottom platforms, not on the main stage. To add to this, the total ground space covers 34 units total, and like Rocks, does not account for the space in the middle, likely pushing the overall space to 40+ units of room between ledges.

With 27 units of space on either side of the water spout, Fountain has almost 60 units of horizontal stage space. You'd think the ceiling blastzone would be low to compensate, but no. Once again it is equal to Battlefield with no platforms to compensate.

Cliff has 42 units of room before going off screen, making this still a decent bit larger than the three legal stages. The kill zone to the right is much larger, requiring over 80% to land a kill. And once again we have the Battlefield-esque ceiling heights with no platforms.

Basically, the only reasonable parts about Wuhu Island regarding size are platform #1, #2, #4, Boat, and maybe Jet Ski Race. The other 8 transformations are too large given their stage space, layout, ceiling height, and side blastzones. While I would say this stage hurts characters that kill vertically more than horizontally, it isn't nice either way. Most transformations are have heigher ceilings than Battlefield with no platforms, while the relative stage space in units makes landing killing blows mid-stage very unreasonable. Couple this with the fact that 4 out of the 13 transformations have walk offs, and many are susceptible to character match up abuse (i.e. Sonic versus Ganondorf), and this stage has no business being legal in my mind from the sheer size it boasts.

I do think it is an excellent doubles stage.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Basically, the only reasonable parts about Wuhu Island regarding size are platform #1, #2, #4,

You realize you've already described almost half the stage, right? The stage spends over half its time on #1, #2, #3, and #4. Throw in the Boat and the Jet Skis (the latter of which is among the most common transformations on the stage). Not sure what your issues with the size on platform #3 are.

As for size, why is this an issue? Camp out the transformations you don't deal with well (how is Sonic going to force you to approach him at the blastzone?), wait in the consistent, constant platforms that are entirely reasonable, and you have a stage which is big, but not unreasonably so. This idea that you just can't kill on the stage doesn't bear out in practice, either - it takes a little longer, but not as much as you might think. I mean, what's the degenerate play you're worried about? You bring up character-specific things, but what things? I know Pikachu is a huge prick on this stage, capable of making it very obnoxious to catch him, but even that's not broken by a longshot.

 

[Ulevo]

You realize you've already described almost half the stage, right? The stage spends over half its time on #1, #2, #3, and #4. Throw in the Boat and the Jet Skis (the latter of which is among the most common transformations on the stage). Not sure what your issues with the size on platform #3 are.

As for size, why is this an issue? Camp out the transformations you don't deal with well (how is Sonic going to force you to approach him at the blastzone?), wait in the consistent, constant platforms that are entirely reasonable, and you have a stage which is big, but not unreasonably so. This idea that you just can't kill on the stage doesn't bear out in practice, either - it takes a little longer, but not as much as you might think. I mean, what's the degenerate play you're worried about? You bring up character-specific things, but what things? I know Pikachu is a huge prick on this stage, capable of making it very obnoxious to catch him, but even that's not broken by a longshot.

If you can't understand the implications of allowing excessively large stages (as I've proven Wuhu to be given the data shown) in tournament play then I'm not going to take the time to humor you with an explanation. It should be blatantly apparent to you why that's an issue. Just because I give you one example of one bad match up does not mean that there are not several more, that any characters faced with this issue should have to resort to using a ban to avoid the issues the stage provides, or that degenerative strategies promoted by large stages are acceptable for tournament play.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

If you can't understand the implications of allowing excessively large stages (as I've proven Wuhu to be given the data shown) in tournament play then I'm not going to take the time to humor you with an explanation.

And just because you can present a bunch of theorycraft about a stage I run every two weeks in my tournaments without any issues doesn't mean anyone should take it seriously.

Look, it's not blatantly apparent to me, just like it's not blatantly apparent to the numerous regions that run the stage. Because it doesn't happen. The reason overly-large stages like 75m, Big Battlefield, and Wrecking Crew are banned is because runaway is overpowered. Because slower characters have no way to catch faster characters. This just does not happen on Wuhu. Your theorycraft is interesting and the data is legitimately useful, but in practice, you know what happens? Characters die a little later, Pikachu gets to be obnoxious (but not significantly worse than on Lylat) with Quick Attack and Thunder Jolts, and just saying "this is big, therefore it's broken" and scoffing when a TO who runs the stage in his tournaments wonders aloud what you're talking about doesn't change that.

 

[Yikarur]

Sounds good having a contra stage to halberd

 

[Kangaexe]

I agree with the idea of Wuhu being too big to be played on. Deflino works very well because of its low ceiling allowing for quicker kills despite having walk offs.
Walk offs are generally bad due to the naturally being longer than the usual FD type. Meaning camping/timeouts are more viable than ever.
I do give credit to people who try to play on these stages, especially in tournament!

 

[D4shD4nce]

So is this stage banned or...?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So is this stage banned or...?

Depends on where you are and who you ask. EVO has it banned, mostly because APEX had it banned and they just did a copypaste of the latter's ruleset. Many other places have followed suit so they can practice under the same rules.

That said, the question of whether it deserves to be banned is a matter of some debate, with the general consensus leaning towards "it should be legal" at this time. There's a thread about it here.

 

[D4shD4nce]

Depends on where you are and who you ask. EVO has it banned, mostly because APEX had it banned and they just did a copypaste of the latter's ruleset. Many other places have followed suit so they can practice under the same rules.

That said, the question of whether it deserves to be banned is a matter of some debate, with the general consensus leaning towards "it should be legal" at this time. There's a thread about it here.

Ah, I see.