[WIP] Chaingrab data

[Stride]

This is delayed indefinitely. See the quote below for my reasoning, and also a practical explanation of how the chaingrab works:

I don't have to motivation to finish the chain grab frame data at the moment (and likely won't for a long time, if ever); it's tedious to collect and the vast majority of it is practically useless anyway. If I could make it significant more efficient to collect by automating the process then I'd probably resume doing it, but until that's possible I don't see myself working on it anymore.

I'll write about the chaingrab in practical terms though; it's not really complex in practice. To my understanding:

Up throw chaingrab to 35% into up throw->dash->jump cancel->up smash (no direct combo off the up smash if they DI it behind), or down throw->down smash (down smash doesn't connect if they DI the throw behind), is pretty close to optimal when not taking platforms into account. You could chaingrab for a little longer but then it gets more difficult than I'd like for the reward.

Even though you don't get a direct followup from the up smash if they DI it behind, you still get a tech chase. Also, if they don't DI the throw behind then depending on the timing/positioning of your dash/jump cancel/up smash the up smash can be reversed, which makes it a 50-50 guess as to which direction to DI the up smash to avoid the followups.

You could also down smash non-behind DI instead of dash->jump cancel->up smashing like you do for DI away, which would give you a guaranteed followup. However, this may not be practical to do consistently (if at all). Because of the small window for covering DI away on the up throw with an up smash, I don't think you have time to confirm the DI before dashing; therefore, you have to start dashing immediately or close to it, and if you see that they didn't DI away then do a pivot/dash back/early up smash to cover it. I don't want to make absolute statements about it since it's a matter of reaction time, meaning some players may be able to do it with practice, but I don't feel like it's possible (at least for me). Reaction time is difficult to take into account objectively, because it varies so much with the individual and the situation, and because the amount of data on the subject is lacking.

Optimal DI on the throw at 35% is always behind regardless of whether it's up throw or down throw; the opponent could try mixing up DI on the throw to throw off the Luigi, but the up throw chaingrab is guaranteed regardless of DI, and DI behind has a significantly smaller window to catch as well as not being subject to the DI mixup on the up smash. Because of that, and because Luigi doesn't have any useful DI traps off grab at this damage, I believe that up throw to up smash is the optimal way to end the chaingrab. While down throw down smash does work, any opponent who knows the matchup will just DI the throw behind; at least with up throw up smash you get the up smash before their DI behind gets them out, and it covers all DIs on the throw. In a throw out of neutral (where the opponent might miss the DI), or when platforms are in play, then down throw down smash could be better.

The chaingrab is not guaranteed 0 to death, but it's good and guaranteed at least 0 to 45 or so, with more generally guaranteed/favourable damage into edgeguard/kill setups afterwards. The only hard part of the regrabbing itself is reacting quickly enough to cover both DI in front and no DI/DI behind at 0%.

I've been collecting frame data for Luigi's chaingrabs (by manually testing it using frame advance on a console). This is still a work in progress and very far from complete, but I'm posting some of it already.

The game uses a polar axis for angles, so straight right is 0 degrees, with 90 degrees being straight up; that is the notation that will be used here.

This thread can also be used for general discussion of chaingrabs/punishment flowcharts.

Relevant information:
• Grab takes 7 frames to come out and is active for 2 frames
• The up throw animation consists of 39 frames of ThrowHi; it is actionable on the frame after that (input on frame 39)
• Earliest input out of DamageFlyTop is frame 40 (a jump or a shine can be input on frame 40 and come out the next frame)
• The white cloud around Luigi's feet comes out on frame 4 of dash
• Jump-cancel grabbing out of a dash provides much more forward momentum than doing so out of a turn. Jump-cancel grabbing out of a run gives similar momentum to doing it on the first frame of a dash, but possibly more momentum, if anything (I can't really tell and haven't tested it thoroughly; the Magus physics display mod wasn't released at the time of testing).
• Dash can be jump-cancelled on frame 1, but Luigi barely starts moving until frame 2.

Concerning the "n frame window": a 1 frame window means you have to be frame-perfect with everything, a 2 frame window means you can be one fame late with one action, a 3 frame window means you can be 1 frame late with 2 actions or 1 frame late with 2 actions, etc. For example, if there is a 3 frame window, then you can dash one frame late, jump one frame late, leave one frame between the jump and the grab, and still get the regrab (with no frames to spare). Unless noted otherwise, when determining the window there may be very slight differences depending on which input is done late, but the differences appear to be insignificant in most, if not all, cases.

Minimum values are assuming Luigi's dash after the throw is initiated on first actionable frame (input on frame 39 ThrowHi) and grab is done as early as possible after the jump-cancel (i.e. on the next frame).

"n frames of DamageFlyTop" refers to the number of frames Fox is in the air before he hits the ground after being thrown. On frame 40 he can input a shine or a jump.

Fox (PAL)
Luigi port 1, Fox port 2
Up Throw
No staling
No DI
0% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop; 2-5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab*, 6 frame window for turn to jump-cancel grab. You can cover no DI and DI away with the same action.
1% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop; 3-5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab*, 6 frame window for turn to jump-cancel grab. You can cover no DI and DI away with the same action.
2% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop; 3-5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab*, 6 frame window for turn to jump-cancel grab. You can cover no DI and DI away with the same action.
3% 32 frames of DamageFlyTop

*0%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: whiff

*1%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: whiff

*2%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: whiff

Fox (PAL)
Luigi port 1, Fox port 2
Up throw
No staling
DI behind (completely horizontally). Technically optimal DI would be behind and slightly down at 190 degrees since the throw sends at 100 degrees, but in practice this is impossible to achieve since the game treats the input of that angle as completely horizontal.

While the opponent does fly different distances at every single percent, at low percentages the differences are negligible when determining whether a regrab is possible; the only thing that seems to matter is the frame on which the opponent hits the ground. At 17%, the window starts to vary between percentages even when the number of DamageFlyTop frames is the same.

Turn to standing grab never works here.

For percentages 1 to 16, it does not matter which actions are done late; the grab will still connect regardless of whether you dash late, jump late, etc. (within the window indicated). After that, there are details given, indicated by the asterisk.

0% 28 frames of DamageFlyTop. 2 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
1% 28 frames of DamageFlyTop. 2 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
2% 29 frames of DamageFlyTop. 3 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
3% 29 frames of DamageFlyTop. 3 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
4% 29 frames of DamageFlyTop. 3 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
5% 29 frames of DamageFlyTop. 3 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
6% 29 frames of DamageFlyTop. 3 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
7% 30 frames of DamageFlyTop. 4 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
8% 30 frames of DamageFlyTop. 4 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
9% 30 frames of DamageFlyTop. 4 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
10% 30 frames of DamageFlyTop. 4 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
11% 30 frames of DamageFlyTop. 4 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
12% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop. 5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
13% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop. 5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
14% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop. 5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
15% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop. 5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
16% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop. 5 frame window for dash to jump-cancel grab.
17% 31 frames of DamageFlyTop. *
18% 32 frames of DamageFlyTop. *
19% 32 frames of DamageFlyTop. *
20% 32 frames of DamageFlyTop. *
21% 32 frames of DamageFlyTop. *
22% 33 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 2 of dash or later.*
23% 33 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 2 of dash or later.*
24% 33 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 2 of dash or later.*
25% 33 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 2 of dash or later.*
26% 33 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 3 of dash or later.*
27% 34 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 3 of dash or later.*
28% 34 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 3 of dash or later.*
29% 34 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 4 of dash or later.*
30% 34 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 4 of dash or later.*
31% 34 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 4 of dash or later.*
32% 35 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 5 of dash or later.*
33% 35 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 5 of dash or later.*
34% 35 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 5 of dash or later.*
35% 35 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 6 of dash or later.*
36% 36 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 6 of dash or later.*
37% 36 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 6 of dash or later.*
38% 36 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 7 of dash or later.*
39% 36 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 7 of dash or later.*
40% 37 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 7 of dash or later.*
41% 37 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 7 of dash or later.*
42% 37 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 7 of dash or later.*
43% 37 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 7 of dash or later.*
44% 38 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 8 of dash or later.*
45% 38 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 8 of dash or later.*
46% 38 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 9 of dash or later.*
47% 39 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 9 of dash or later.*
48% 39 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 9 of dash or later.*
49% 39 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 10 of dash or later.*
50% 39 frames of DamageFlyTop. Jump must be input on frame 10 of dash or later.*
51% 40 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 1 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 11 of dash or later.*
52% 40 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 1 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 11 of dash or later.*
53% 40 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 1 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 11 of dash or later.*
54% 41 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 2 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 12 of dash or later.*
55% 41 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 2 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 13 of dash or later.*
56% 41 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 2 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 14 of dash or later.*
57% 42 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 3 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 14 of dash or later.*
58% 42 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 3 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 15 of dash or later.*
59% 43 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 4 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 16 of dash or later.*
60% 43 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 4 frame widow to shine). Jump must be input on frame 16 of dash or later.*
61% 43 frames of DamageFlyTop (Fox has a 4 frame widow to shine). Dash to jump cancel grab is impossible.*

The following data assumes that the grab out of jumpsquat is done as soon as possible. Delaying the jump by a certain number of frames is usually practically equivalent to delaying the dash by the same number of frames. However, it appears that at higher percentages, delaying the grab out of jumpsquat can extend the window for a regrab (you slide further during jumpsquat than you move while running); I haven't tested this thoroughly but it does happen. I didn't realise this until most of the way through the testing, which is why I didn't test something so important. I will go back to it.

The last frame shown is the latest possible frame the dash could be initiated on and still have the grab come out before Fox hits the ground; a grab cannot possibly connect on any of the frames after those shown because Fox is grounded and in his knockdown/tech animation by the time the grab comes out.

Every additional frame of dash after the last jump frame listed for each percentage will reduce the regrab window by 1 frame, therefore there is no benefit to jumping any later than the last frame shown in each list; the extra frames are leniency frames.

The grab connecting on the second frame isn't technically relevant, but I though that I might as well include it anyway.

*17%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit

*18%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit

*19%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit

*20%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit

*21%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit

*22%:
(Jump frame 1)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
Dash frame 7: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit

*23%:
(Jump frame 1)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: hit (frame 2 of grab)

*24%:
(Jump frame 1)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: whiff

*25%:
(Jump frame 1)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: whiff

*26%:
(Jump frame 1)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 2)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit

*27%:
(Jump frame 1-2)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: whiff

*28%:
(Jump frame 1-2)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit
Dash frame 5: whiff

*29%:
(Jump frame 1-2)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 3)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff

*30%:
(Jump frame 1-3)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit

*31%:
(Jump frame 1-3)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit

*32%:
(Jump frame 1-3)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 4)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
Dash frame 6: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: hit

*33%:
(Jump frame 1-4)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: whiff

*34%:
(Jump frame 1-4)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: whiff

*35%:
(Jump frame 1-4)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 5)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: whiff

*36%:
(Jump frame 1-5)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit
Dash frame 4: whiff

*37%:
(Jump frame 1-5)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 4: whiff

*38%:
(Jump frame 1-5)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 6)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit

*39%:
(Jump frame 1-6)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: hit

*40%:
(Jump frame 1-6)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*41%:
(Jump frame 1-6)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*42%:
(Jump frame 1-6)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*43%:
(Jump frame 1-6)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*44%:
(Jump frame 1-6)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 7)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*45%:
(Jump frame 1-7)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*46%:
(Jump frame 1-7)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 8)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*47%:
(Jump frame 1-8)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*48%:
(Jump frame 1-8)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 9)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*49%:
(Jump frame 1-9)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*50%:
(Jump frame 1-9)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*51%:
(Jump frame 1-9)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 10)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
Dash frame 5: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 12)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit
Dash frame 3: whiff

*52%:
(Jump frame 1-10)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 12)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 13)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: hit

*53%:
(Jump frame 1-10)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 12)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 13)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*54%:
(Jump frame 1-10)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 11)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 12)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 13)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 14)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*55%:
(Jump frame 1-11)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 12)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
Dash frame 4: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 13)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 14)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*56%:
(Jump frame 1-12)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 13)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 14)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*57%:
(Jump frame 1-13)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 14)
Dash frame 1: hit (frame 2 of grab)
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 15)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*58%:
(Jump frame 1-13)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 14)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 15)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*59%:
(Jump frame 1-14)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 15)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
Dash frame 3: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 16)
Dash frame 1: hit
Dash frame 2: whiff

*60%:
(Jump frame 1-15)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 16)
Dash frame 1: whiff
Dash frame 2: whiff
/ / / /
(Jump frame 17)
Dash frame 1: whiff

*61%:
(Jump frame 1-16)
Always whiffs
/ / / /
(Jump frame 17)
Dash frame 1: whiff

 

[Stride]

[Reserved]

 

[Madcowdesease]

I don't really get this...are you saying that regrab is possible up until 50% using only jc grabs with no wding required? You blurb post does not seem very clear on what exactly you're trying to highlight.

 

[Stride]

I don't really get this...are you saying that regrab is possible up until 50% using only jc grabs with no wding required? You blurb post does not seem very clear on what exactly you're trying to highlight.

Yes. Like I said, it's not finished but I'm posting it anyway so it's going to be be disorganised and not practically useful for a while (I'm sorry if I didn't annotate it clearly; it was probably too early to post it to be honest). The idea is that I find out how many frames you have to dash and grab DI behind (which is the only part that I've finished/posted at this stage), then I find out the same for no DI and see at what percentages you can react to cover both options by dashing one way and then pivoting (or by just waiting to see the DI before dashing). After that, I can do the same or similar things for wavedash regrab, wavedash up tilt, running up smash, and so on.

 

[Yann J.Ridin]

I have do this researchs too when i have been tying to build the best 0-to-death combo on Fox(PAL) on FD.

Personnaly, I chain grab with JCgrab from 3% to 40%, then Upthrow to uptilt from 46% to 54%, then I do fews chain grab with WD from 60% to 68%, if the fox do the wrong DI on a Upthrow beetween 63% to 68%, I can UpB. If the Fox do always good DI: Chaingrab WD to 96% to WD-Fsmash and if not, I uptilt to aerial between 75% to 95%.

I know that at 68%, you can Ping after a good Di on the Upthrow, but it requiers a really good WD disctance. I don't have practice that for the moment.

EDIT: About Upthrow to WD to Up B if the the fox(PAL) DI away the Upthrow on FD (no stale):
The best % to do it is 79%: you have 7 frames whiff to do the UpB if you are frame perfect before that and if you have quiet perfect WD.

All i said previously is quiet approximate. I will maybe do a thread when I 'm sure that I do it correctly.