• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Why Smash Tournaments are Crazy

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
12,731
Location
Bellevue, Washington
Following yesterday's catastrophe at MVG Sandstorm, the below from April 20, 2014 (exactly 1 year ago) is being re-published. MVG Sandstorm, a major event in Arizona that featured Project M, Super Smash Brothers Melee, and Super Smash Brothers Wii U, ran into a host of problems. Among them was power being shut off during the Melee finals mid-match, the Project M Grand Finals not being played at all due to time, controversy over Mew2King and Zero's Smash Wii U team name, and controversy over Mew2King's decision to drop out of Melee after being seeded 5th in the bracket. Most spectators at home also likely noticed the sub-par stream quality as the venue's internet could not sustain a connection. The stream itself was saved when D1 volunteered his 4G phone for bandwidth.


Below's article touches on why some of these problems are more prevalent in the Smash community than in other gaming communities. While many new players have already labeled Sandstorm as the "worst" tournament ever, such a characterization would be unfair. Multiple large events have had to shut down to play finals in other venues (usually hotel rooms), more than a few events have had to run using 4G phones before, and let's not forget about Apex 2015 where the entire tournament moved 45 minutes away from the original venue and an entire tournament day was lost. Through it all though - Smashers persevere.

___

Yesterday, Fight Pit IV ran past midnight as the day-long Super Smash Brothers Melee tournament saw over 170 entrants. So late did Fight Pit IV go, that the venue had to clear of spectators and there was even the threat of having the police called in order to vacate the premises. While this may seem unusual for those who are just entering the Smash scene, this is actually not an unexpected or rare occurrence since Smash tournaments operate under different variables than other scenes.


Shout outs to Duck for forfeiting Loser's Finals so that the tournament could finish!

"Smashers derive their very existence from an overwhelming need to get together and play in person - once this is accomplished little else matters."

Why Smash Tournaments are Crazy
  1. Smash Tournament Organizers don't cap attendance and nearly every attendee is a player. This means the structure of the tournament needs to satisfy most players - and not spectators.

  2. Smash tournaments are open to all - they are not invite only for only a select number of "teams" or players who essentially are there to put on a show for a spectating audience.

  3. Smashers are notorious for not registering online, making preparation for tournaments a 'best guess' - this means planning (and advertising) to operate Round Robin pools that may be difficult to run if attendance is very high.

  4. Smash tournaments require setups (CRT + Gamecube/Wii + game) and the ideal minimum ratio for operation is 1 setup per every 4 players. This is very difficult to achieve and often only partial setups show up. Not enough setups slows down the pace of the tournament.

  5. Smashers love to play friendlies - since every person attending is a player, once they are eliminated, players will often play friendlies on setups that should still be getting used for only tournament matches.

  6. Smash tournaments are run on a shoe-string budget. They are nearly entirely grassroots, which means tournaments can be run in houses, bars, and gaming centers. However, one of the most popular places to operate are schools (colleges) or church facilities - these facilities are usually free or cheap, but it means the venues shut down at specific times without negotiation.

  7. Smashers are accustomed to operating in conditions that players from others communities may find unprofessional. This means playing and finishing tournaments in apartments, hotel rooms, even the back of a car. Smashers derive their very existence from an overwhelming need to get together and play in person - once this is accomplished little else matters. Indeed, while the conditions can even be borderline harsh, the shared experience of making it through 10, 14, or 20 hour days with tournaments ending after midnight builds memories and, even, overcoming a shared hardship.

  8. Imagine the commitment and dedication it takes to have a community where over 1,000 LIVE tournaments occur in a year that hasn't seen support from the games developer or publisher. The only major force to operate consistently in the Smash community has been MLG - and outside of their events every other tournament is an entirely community driven effort with little or no sponsorship, put together by TOs just scraping by and putting on an event for the love of the game and community.
Some Notable Tournaments and Late Finishes (Melee and Brawl)
  • Tournament Go - the Matt Deezie series that launched the community - held 100+ person tournaments in a house
  • Game Over, in 2003, finished at a players apartment
  • BOMB3, in 2004, finished in the hallway after the main room closed
  • COT4, in 2008, finished in an apartment with radio-style commentary in place of a livestream
  • Genesis 1, in 2009, finished in a hotel room
  • WBST3, in 2009, finishes in the back of a car
  • Fight Pit IV, in 2014, finishes in an empty venue as two the best players in the World compete for victory



The parking lot makes a great emergency venue!
 
Last edited:

MLGF

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,922
While this is great insight, I think there is very little solutions offered outside of "Smashers really should sign up online to make life easier", which is a personal thing rather then a community thing.
 

JakieWinks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
83
Location
Lake Orion, MI / Davison, MI
I randomly decided to tune into fight pit last night and as a relatively new smasher in the community, I was amazed at the dedication they put into finishing it, claiming they would finish even if the cops showed up. It was awesome.

Oh and the twitch chat was priceless too, "Duck the police!" :3
 

TimeSmash

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,669
Location
Inside a cheesecake
NNID
nintend64
An Ohio torunament I went to had us kicked out, and we finished the game at this nice little bar near the venue. Shout out to those guys and the two glasses of Pinot Grigio I had
 

Gombukelp

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
86
Location
Sweden
Shout outs to David The Bowser Guy for the Suicide Down B on Mew2King during yesterday's Fight Pit. Funniest moment by far!

 
Last edited:

beanwolf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
80
That's actually me hahaha, my Bowser is NOWHERE near as good as DTBG's.
 
Last edited:

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
COT4 is literally my favorite "stream" experience. I stayed up until like 4am on a sunday listening to that radio style commentary between lank, ally, and m2k IIRC. It was legendary. I actually wish more tournies would try the radio style commentary, it's amazing.
 

Man Li Gi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
1,240
NNID
ManLiGi
Since the tourney had to be rushed, both players were playing unexpectedly sloppy from when I was watching.
 

KayB

Smash Master
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
3,977
Location
Seoul, South Korea
Since the tourney had to be rushed, both players were playing unexpectedly sloppy from when I was watching.
Are you kidding? They played amazing.
Jason started losing stamina in the 2nd set of GF, and though he only lost a little, it was enough for Mango to take advantage of his play and take the 3-0 victory. Other than that, they played amazingly. Jason played much better here than he did in ROM7.
 
Last edited:

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Had a fantastic time running this event with bearsfan. It really sucks that we had to make some of the decisions we did to ensure the tourney finished as close to on time as possible, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
If you're a TO and you notice a much larger turnout developing than you anticipated, you need to just not do teams, or not do pools or SOMETHING to shorten the length of the tournament. It's a serious problem how long smash tournaments take and it hurts the viability of the game that every major is like 3 days, regionals are 2 days, and even a small time local can start at noon and run well past 10pm.
 
Last edited:

Lawn Chair

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
321
No one mentions that they didn't even bother writing up the PM bracket, so they just cancelled it wasting everyone's time. Never go to Pitt for PM you'll be disappointed
 

Man Li Gi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
1,240
NNID
ManLiGi
Are you kidding? They played amazing.
Jason started losing stamina in the 2nd set of GF, and though he only lost a little, it was enough for Mango to take advantage of his play and take the 3-0 victory. Other than that, they played amazingly. Jason played much better here than he did in ROM7.
M2K started missing what looked to be easy edgeguards and M2k usually plays more lax while it was pretty evident of the first match of the GF that M2K was playing as fast as possible so the cops were not called. Mango accordingly took advantage of M2K's rushed playstyle and won. Congrats to Mango.
 

jayeldeee

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
292
This is why we are the best community. Our passion shows that we are willing to play the game wherever it might take us. It's not solely about the hype or just the game itself. It's about the people, the hearts, and the passion of the players that bring everyone together. This is why smash brothers is one of the best games to ever be made. Because it has brought people together in the best and worst of times. We create friendships, strong relationships, and find that we are all smash brothers in this crazy driven world <3
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
No one mentions that they didn't even bother writing up the PM bracket, so they just cancelled it wasting everyone's time. Never go to Pitt for PM you'll be disappointed
Oh, is that right? If you would of listened to announcements (That I made over the mic btw), you would of heard we had the pm bracket ready to go and were going to run it after the first round of melee loser's bracket. You also know why I know this? Its because I'm the one who seeded the entire PM Bracket. I also had a few players take a second look at my work to make sure there were no regional conflicts or mis-seedings from regions I wasn't as familiar with. It was ready to go in its single elimination format at around 8pm. However, even though the bracket was done, we realized there was still not going to be enough time to run it, so only then the call was made to cancel it. I really wanted PM to run because its my better game and I probably had a half-decent shot of placing in money or near the money. But i still fully agreed with the cancellation because there was no other option.
And before you say that we would of had at least 3 hours to run the pm bracket and that it would of been more than enough time, let me remind you we had less than 10 setups, and that despite it being a single elimination bracket, there were still roughly 100 entrants. And this is assuming they all would play their matches instantly. I mean, its not like at least half of them were entered into a melee tournament running at the same time, right?

So, before you even bother with making assertions, make sure you got your facts straight.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,346
I feel like this gives a mixed message. Yes, the comments here I believe go to show how much people enjoy the game and the willingness to make it happen.

However, it seems like tournaments continue to have the same issues all-around from both TOs and the players themselves. With so many years of experience you might expect things have gotten better organized. But, I am not really certain.

Just saying this article sort of makes us seem a bit unorganized and unprofessional. Yes, there is no true professionalism backing from other organizations, but I do not think you need a sponsor, extravagant resources, etc. to be well-organized. It mainly requires the right attitude from both players and TOs alike.
 
Last edited:

Lawn Chair

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
321
Oh, is that right? If you would of listened to announcements (That I made over the mic btw), you would of heard we had the pm bracket ready to go and were going to run it after the first round of melee loser's bracket. You also know why I know this? Its because I'm the one who seeded the entire PM Bracket. I also had a few players take a second look at my work to make sure there were no regional conflicts or mis-seedings from regions I wasn't as familiar with. It was ready to go in its single elimination format at around 8pm. However, even though the bracket was done, we realized there was still not going to be enough time to run it, so only then the call was made to cancel it. I really wanted PM to run because its my better game and I probably had a half-decent shot of placing in money or near the money. But i still fully agreed with the cancellation because there was no other option.
And before you say that we would of had at least 3 hours to run the pm bracket and that it would of been more than enough time, let me remind you we had less than 10 setups, and that despite it being a single elimination bracket, there were still roughly 100 entrants. And this is assuming they all would play their matches instantly. I mean, its not like at least half of them were entered into a melee tournament running at the same time, right?

So, before you even bother with making assertions, make sure you got your facts straight.
You started an hour and half late, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many melee setups were used to play friendlies. No one enforced the bracket, I think if you guys enforced more the bracket would have went on faster. PM could have had a chance
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
However, it seems like tournaments continue to have the same issues all-around from both TOs and the players themselves. With so many years of experience you might expect things have gotten better organized. But, I am not really certain.
We are unorganized and unprofessional. We're a grassroots community, throwing money at our problems isn't really something we can do.

What we have is amazing.
 

beanwolf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
80
You started an hour and half late, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many melee setups were used to play friendlies. No one enforced the bracket, I think if you guys enforced more the bracket would have went on faster. PM could have had a chance
I'm gonna rant here, and I'm apologizing in advance.

Are you ****ING kidding me? I did nothing for a large majority of bracket but run around and kick people off friendly setups. Smashers suck at listening to people and following directions, and they will selfishly play friendlies until the Gamecube is smashed on the ground in front of their faces.

One of the biggest issues, that no one really seems brave enough to touch, is that our community consists of a large amount of people who take no personal responsibility for themselves and are FAR too entitled. When someone tells you to get off a friendly setup, you get the **** up and go spectate, not move to the setup directly next to the one I just kicked you off of.

If you need a perfect example of just how stubborn and entitled our community is, just look at the "CLEAR A PATH" situation that happened at Apex 2014. Yes, the space could have been managed better, but when someone is literally screaming for people to move and threatening to shut down the event and a mob of people just continues to stand there, we have a problem.

This is not an issue that can be resolved simply by the way TOs run tournaments, our community of players needs to realize they can't act like children any longer.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
This is not an issue that can be resolved simply by the way TOs run tournaments, our community of players needs to realize they can't act like children any longer.
It is not reasonable to ask that a large number of players all change their behavior on tournament day. You must expect them to act that way and plan your event around it. Is it ideal? Of course not, but it's the reality of the situation and you must work with it to be a successful TO.
 

beanwolf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
80
It is not reasonable to ask that a large number of players all change their behavior on tournament day. You must expect them to act that way and plan your event around it. Is it ideal? Of course not, but it's the reality of the situation and you must work with it to be a successful TO.
Unfortunately you're right, but you can't possibly try to convince me that Smash had a scene full of people that acted as professional as communities like SC2, LoL, or even shooters at face-to-face events (I'm not talking things like trash talk, more like organization and respecting officials).

It's certainly a reach goal, but it's something that I felt had to be said. I don't expect people to grow up between FP4 and FP5 :).
 
Top Bottom