Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Munomario777]

The original Wind Waker magic armor used magic and not rupees, and also creates a barrier as opposed to just acting as impenetrable armor. For whatever reason, the Magic Armor from WWHD used rupees, weird.

Well, the Magic Armor (barrier version) uses up magic, but it also uses Rupees upon being hit, and will be deactivated when his Rupee count is depleted.

 

[Nerdicon]

Well, the Magic Armor (barrier version) uses up magic, but it also uses Rupees upon being hit, and will be deactivated when his Rupee count is depleted.

Not in the GCN version of The Wind Waker (source) so the 3 days of invincibility still stands.

 

[Munomario777]

Not in the GCN version of The Wind Waker (source) so the 3 days of invincibility still stands.

Well, now we're getting into the issue of whether the remake or the original counts as canon. I'm going to say that WWHD is canon, if only because it's a "refinement" or "revision" of the original, meant to "replace" it in a way.

 

[Nerdicon]

Well, now we're getting into the issue of whether the remake or the original counts as canon. I'm going to say that WWHD is canon, if only because it's a "refinement" or "revision" of the original, meant to "replace" it in a way.

Looks like we're going to disagree here, I feel that both should be taken into consideration, so a character can use items from the original or the remake like Super Mario 64 vs the DS remake. I would totally give Luigi his SM64DS abilities.

 

[Munomario777]

Looks like we're going to disagree here, I feel that both should be taken into consideration, so a character can use items from the original or the remake like Super Mario 64 vs the DS remake. I would totally give Luigi his SM64DS abilities.

Meh. It's the same game, but better (usually) and new. It's meant to be the new version of the original, and to "replace" it as the definitive way to play that game. I would give Luigi his SM64DS abilities as well; that's the remake. It's got to be one or the other. We can't really say that Link went through the events of Wind Waker twice, re-meeting and re-learning everyone and everything all over again; that doesn't make sense. Remakes are like an extensive, paid patch, but for a different console; they fix bugs, add in features, improve existing features, and other things patches do. Nothing was really lost in the transition from original to remake; thus, there's no real reason to include the original along with the remake. Anyway, if you still disagree after this, I'll agree to disagree as well.

 

[Nerdicon]

Meh. It's the same game, but better (usually) and new. It's meant to be the new version of the original, and to "replace" it as the definitive way to play that game. I would give Luigi his SM64DS abilities as well; that's the remake. It's got to be one or the other. We can't really say that Link went through the events of Wind Waker twice, re-meeting and re-learning everyone and everything all over again; that doesn't make sense. Remakes are like an extensive, paid patch, but for a different console; they fix bugs, add in features, improve existing features, and other things patches do. Nothing was really lost in the transition from original to remake; thus, there's no real reason to include the original along with the remake. Anyway, if you still disagree after this, I'll agree to disagree as well.

Agreeing to disagree...ing

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Ah, okay. I was thinking of something else, my bad. On the subject of Rings, I think we should use them here, since A) it gives us an accurate health system for us to use (i.e. we know X attack takes away Y Rings), B) it doesn't cause any issues that a regular health bar wouldn't (translating damage from one game to the other would happen with a regular health bar as well), and C) it's one of his most unique attributes (not many characters have their life bar fly out of them, ready to be collected again).

As for the amount of Rings, we're giving all characters maximum ammo and health, and Rings count as both. Now, in the main gameplay, Sonic can usually hold up to 999 Rings. However, in Sonic Adventure 2, there is a mode where you can have a pet Chao, and, playing as one of the playable characters (including Sonic, of course), train it, feed it, and, most importantly for this discussion, buy it things. These things are bought in a store known as the Black Market using Rings. The most expensive item listed in the Black Market is Maria Robotnik's Menu Voice (a skin for the game's menus), costing a whopping 30,000 Rings. Naturally, the characters (including Sonic) can hold that many Rings in order to buy the item with. And yes, the health item Rings and the currency Rings are the same thing, since the Rings collected in levels for health also carry over to the Chao Garden (as well as carrying over in other games, such as Sonic 2006 and Sonic Unleashed).

Anyway, this would allow him to stay in Super Sonic form for about eight hours and twenty minutes (not factoring in damage, of course), based on the fact that Super Sonic consumes one Ring per second. While it might not be the three days Link can stay in his Magic Armor, I'd say it's more than enough for someone of Sonic's speed to deplete his Rupee count (let alone defeat the other fighters).

The ring limit should be 999, because that's what the developers established to be the limit during gameplay. A Pokémon trainer can catch over 400 Pokémon, but only the six he's carrying are of any use, the rest go to the PC.

 

[Munomario777]

The ring limit should be 999, because that's what the developers established to be the limit during gameplay. A Pokémon trainer can catch over 400 Pokémon, but only the six he's carrying are of any use, the rest go to the PC.

Well, the difference is that Sonic is carrying all those Rings with him at once (how else would he buy the items?). The Trainer isn't carrying all of those Pokemon at once; they're stored on the Internet.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Well, the difference is that Sonic is carrying all those Rings with him at once (how else would he buy the items?). The Trainer isn't carrying all of those Pokemon at once; they're stored on the Internet.

He writes a check :U

You don't buy a car with thousands of ones.

 

[Munomario777]

He writes a check :U

You don't buy a car with thousands of ones.

Well, Sonic picks up all those Rings physically, and yet we never see him go to a bank.

EDIT 1/11/2015: Don't want to double post for this, so I've added it to the latest post on the subject. I've done a bit of research around the Internets, and I've heard from various sources that the maximum Ring count in the Chao Garden (and Tiny Chao Garden in Sonic Advance) is 999,999 (~11.57 days in Super Sonic). This makes sense, given the Ring count goes into the thousands (the most expensive item is 30,000 Rings), so it seems logical that 999,999 would be the cap.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Canonicallly speaking wouldn't the kid icarus crew be the strongest characters followed by kirby and than robin.

 

[Munomario777]

Canonicallly speaking wouldn't the kid icarus crew be the strongest characters followed by kirby and than robin.

Well, just being "gods" or "god slayers" doesn't automatically bring them to the top of the list. We have to look at what they've done, rather than their titles.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Yes, but those certain characters would give him quite a bit of trouble.
The model for the armor doesn't cover his face. If he turns around, the opponent could simply hit him from behind.
Yes, I pointed that out in my post. As for the Rupee count, sorry, my bad. I didn't find a source for the 999,999 limit, though. Twilight Princess Link can hold 1,000, and in Wind Waker, the maximum wallet upgrades let him hold up to 5,000, and those are the only games that Magic Armor ever appeared in. Anyway, the point still stands that it's just a matter of time, however. If the opponent can avoid/tough it through Link's attacks and hit him enough times to drain his Rupee counter, then it will level the playing field drastically.

Yeah. The transformation sequence was really fast in the older games; I'm guessing they slowed it down for emphasis in later games.

Hmm... Well, we should take into account what type of attack he's being damaged by. The only things that have been shown to damage Super Sonic (as in taking away Rings) in an all-out battle (where he's being serious and not joking around, which can partially explain the scene in Unleashed) are gods which exist in all time periods at once (about ten rings per hit), deities of darkness and destruction living inside the earth's core (the battle operates on a life bar system rather than Rings depleting over time, so it's uncertain how much damage this does, but let's say ten Rings, since that's how much the omnipotent deity does), and a machine specifically designed to harness Chaos Emerald energy. If any characters have those properties, then yes, he can be harmed in this scenario.

But the armor covers the back of his head. You said his face would be vulnerable because his face is exposed, but the back of his head isn't. Since the Magic Armor makes him invulnerable, it wouldn't matter if he got hit from behind. Also, not like he has to stand still and drink it.

The Zelda Wiki says that in the Four Swords Anniversary Edition he has a max of 999,999 rupees http://zeldawiki.org/Wallet. If my math is right, that would give him around 8333 minutes of invincibility, which I believe is about 138 hours. Plus when that runs out, he can always drink the Chateau Romani and get 3 days of invulnerability/invincibility/intangibility with the Magic Cape. That' almost 9 days of varying degrees of invincible. Depending on the size of the battlefield, Sonic is probably the only person who can survive Link being more or less unharmable for a little over a week. However that doesn't include the 12 rupees he loses whenever he's hit while wearing Magic Maromr

Yea, the only people who could come anywhere near those definitions are the Triforce wielders and maybe Palutena, but even that's a stretch. So we should probably just leave him invulnerable.

The ring limit should be 999, because that's what the developers established to be the limit during gameplay. A Pokémon trainer can catch over 400 Pokémon, but only the six he's carrying are of any use, the rest go to the PC.

I'm not sure I follow your logic here, is this mode where Sonic can get 30,000 rings that munomario's talking about not apart of Sonic Adventure 2's single player mode?

Canonicallly speaking wouldn't the kid icarus crew be the strongest characters followed by kirby and than robin.

Well I think the few of us who post here frequently agree that all those guys are in the higher tiers but they're not the strongest.

 

[Munomario777]

But the armor covers the back of his head. You said his face would be vulnerable because his face is exposed, but the back of his head isn't. Since the Magic Armor makes him invulnerable, it wouldn't matter if he got hit from behind. Also, not like he has to stand still and drink it.

Armor that doesn't cover your face doesn't protect your face. This armor doesn't cover his face; therefore, it doesn't protect his face. He has the more effective Wind Waker version anyway. And yes, he could move while drinking it, but there are a few characters that can move faster than him and catch up before he finishes (and knock the drink out of his hand, which wouldn't be negated by the Magic Armor).

The Zelda Wiki says that in the Four Swords Anniversary Edition he has a max of 999,999 rupees http://zeldawiki.org/Wallet. If my math is right, that would give him around 8333 minutes of invincibility, which I believe is about 138 hours. Plus when that runs out, he can always drink the Chateau Romani and get 3 days of invulnerability/invincibility/intangibility with the Magic Cape. That' almost 9 days of varying degrees of invincible. Depending on the size of the battlefield, Sonic is probably the only person who can survive Link being more or less unharmable for a little over a week. However that doesn't include the 12 rupees he loses whenever he's hit while wearing Magic Armor

Well, there's four Links in that game, so the Rupees are being split between four different Links. The most Rupees a single Link has held at once is 9,999 in A Link Between Worlds (and some of the toon games). This would give him about one and a half to two hours of invincibility (given the fact that he consumes about two Rupees per second), not taking into account the twelve per hit. And yes, I agree that Sonic would probably be the only one who could survive Link for that long, since he can become invincible for about eleven days or so (read my edit from a few posts up).

Yea, the only people who could come anywhere near those definitions are the Triforce wielders and maybe Palutena, but even that's a stretch. So we should probably just leave him invulnerable.

Mmmhmm.

I'm not sure I follow your logic here, is this mode where Sonic can get 30,000 rings that munomario's talking about not apart of Sonic Adventure 2's single player mode?

Yeah, it's the Chao Garden in Sonic Adventure 2, which you can access after any level if you get the hidden key.

 

[Nerdicon]

I guess I should post one of these. Due note that just because a character is higher than another character on the list that does not mean that they can beat everyone below them (for example Dorf would probably win against Sonic) anyway here it is

S Tier







A Tier


/w Lumas






B Tier
Coming soon! (Not that anyone cares)

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Armor that doesn't cover your face doesn't protect your face. This armor doesn't cover his face; therefore, it doesn't protect his face. He has the more effective Wind Waker version anyway. And yes, he could move while drinking it, but there are a few characters that can move faster than him and catch up before he finishes (and knock the drink out of his hand, which wouldn't be negated by the Magic Armor).

I understood that, I was saying it not covering his face won't be an issue if he turns around since the back of his head IS covered. But yes the Windwaker one is more effective.
And does the Magic Armor make him immune to knockback? Because if so the enemy would have to specifically hit the bottle to break it.
And if not, he has Iron Mitts, so it's not like knocking it out would be easy. Off the top of my head, only Sonic and Mewtwo would qualify under the latter.

Well, there's four Links in that game, so the Rupees are being split between four different Links. The most Rupees a single Link has held at once is 9,999 in A Link Between Worlds (and some of the toon games). This would give him about one and a half to two hours of invincibility (given the fact that he consumes about two Rupees per second), not taking into account the twelve per hit. And yes, I agree that Sonic would probably be the only one who could survive Link for that long, since he can become invincible for about eleven days or so (read my edit from a few posts up).

Cool.

Mmmhmm.

Yeah, it's the Chao Garden in Sonic Adventure 2, which you can access after any level if you get the hidden key

Well then I'd say he should get 30k rings..

I guess I should post one of these. Due note that just because a character is higher than another character on the list that does not mean that they can beat everyone below them (for example Dorf would probably win against Sonic) anyway here it is

S Tier







A Tier


/w Lumas






B Tier
Coming soon! (Not that anyone cares)

Nice list but 2 questions:

1) Why is Rosaluma so high?
2) Why is Samus below the psychics and Kirby people.

Also, I'd put Robin above Marth, right below him or near top of B tier. If you want to know, I've done posts explaining why he deserves to be high.

 

[Munomario777]

I understood that, I was saying it not covering his face won't be an issue if he turns around since the back of his head IS covered. But yes the Windwaker one is more effective.
And does the Magic Armor make him immune to knockback? Because if so the enemy would have to specifically hit the bottle to break it.
And if not, he has Iron Mitts, so it's not like knocking it out would be easy. Off the top of my head, only Sonic and Mewtwo would qualify under the latter.

Yes, but I'm saying that the attacker could turn around accordingly to attack his "backside" (now his frontside, since he turned around) and his face. Anyway, the Wind Waker one is more effective, so it doesn't really matter that much.
Not sure, but I'd imagine that Link would move with something that's pushing him (I'm sure there's an instance in the Zelda games where he's pushed by a wall or something).
True.

Well then I'd say he should get 30k rings..

As I said in an earlier post, I've heard that the maximum Ring count in that mode is 999,999 from various sources (plus, you can get a lot more than that in other games, such as Sonic 2006).

 

[Meta_Ridley]

As I said in an earlier post, I've heard that the maximum Ring count in that mode is 999,999 from various sources (plus, you can get a lot more than that in other games, such as Sonic 2006).

Video verification would be nice.

Also, using rings for currency and directly tapping into their power (for health or Super Sonic purposes) are two different things. For the latter, you've said the maximum is 999. That should be the limit, and I think everyone else would agree.

That is, unless you have video footage of Sonic holding more than 999 rings in actual gameplay, and not a shop.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Video verification would be nice.

Also, using rings for currency and directly tapping into their power (for health or Super Sonic purposes) are two different things. For the latter, you've said the maximum is 999. That should be the limit, and I think everyone else would agree.

That is, unless you have video footage of Sonic holding more than 999 rings in actual gameplay, and not a shop.

Boom, there ya go.
Found this in like 2 minutes:

 

[Munomario777]

Video verification would be nice.

Also, using rings for currency and directly tapping into their power (for health or Super Sonic purposes) are two different things. For the latter, you've said the maximum is 999. That should be the limit, and I think everyone else would agree.

That is, unless you have video footage of Sonic holding more than 999 rings in actual gameplay, and not a shop.

It's never said that Rings as currency and Rings as life force are two separate things (not to mention that Rings in main gameplay transfer over to be used as currency). There's no "Money Rings" that are separate from "Health Rings"; there's just "Rings", which serve both purposes.

This in addition to CyberHyperPhoenix's post, of course.

 

[Nerdicon]

Nice list but 2 questions:

1) Why is Rosaluma so high?
2) Why is Samus below the psychics and Kirby people.

Also, I'd put Robin above Marth, right below him or near top of B tier. If you want to know, I've done posts explaining why he deserves to be high.

1) While Rosalina on her own isn't too impressive, the Lumas are, those things could form into real stars, planets, even REAL black holes. I must emphasize the "real" bit to show that they'd behave like their real life counter-part. Also she has what seems like an impenetrable shield, but since she has to throw it up on reaction it's not as good as say Magic Armor or Stone because of her (presumed) mediocre reaction time. In hindsight though, everyone from about Rosalina to the psychics are very close in power
2) The psychics could easily kill the Samus inside the suit, both Mewtwo and Ness have some sort of telekinesis to attack the defenseless Samus. Meta Knight can teleport to avoid Samus' onslaught as well as shoot sword beams that cut through everything, which means he could teleport circles around Samus and cleave her in half with a sword beam. Kirby in Hypernova form can swallow any of Samus' projectiles and redirect them back at her plus Crash to do massive damage. Kirby's insane durability also makes him a tough opponent.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

It's never said that Rings as currency and Rings as life force are two separate things (not to mention that Rings in main gameplay transfer over to be used as currency). There's no "Money Rings" that are separate from "Health Rings"; there's just "Rings", which serve both purposes.

This in addition to CyberHyperPhoenix's post, of course.

Alright, the video's good proof. Thanks for posting it, @ CyberHyperPhoenix .

And I know that there's only one kind of ring. I'm still maintaining my "ring bank" stance: that Sonic has a ring cache separate from the rings he currently has on his person (which he has access to while shopping), and that Sonic can hold on his person, for personal use as health and power, only a certain number of rings (which I now know goes well past a thousand). Did Unleashed actually establish a limit, or did they just leave it boundless and artificially limit it to the number of rings in a given level?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Alright, the video's good proof. Thanks for posting it, @ CyberHyperPhoenix .

And I know that there's only one kind of ring. I'm still maintaining my "ring bank" stance: that Sonic has a ring cache separate from the rings he currently has on his person (which he has access to while shopping), and that Sonic can hold on his person, for personal use as health and power, only a certain number of rings (which I now know goes well past a thousand). Did Unleashed actually establish a limit, or did they just leave it boundless and artificially limit it to the number of rings in a given level?

There are these other two I found.

 

[CosmicGlitch]

Trainer with National Dex can use any Pokemon he desires, any of them. From Mewtwo to Pichu, he can use them all. That's why he should be higher, because he can use the most powerful Pokemon to back him up.

and arceus exist which is technically the god of pokemon

 

[mimgrim]

Why the hell did a post I made all the way back in February of last year get quoted? ._.

 

[Munomario777]

Alright, the video's good proof. Thanks for posting it, @ CyberHyperPhoenix .

And I know that there's only one kind of ring. I'm still maintaining my "ring bank" stance: that Sonic has a ring cache separate from the rings he currently has on his person (which he has access to while shopping), and that Sonic can hold on his person, for personal use as health and power, only a certain number of rings (which I now know goes well past a thousand). Did Unleashed actually establish a limit, or did they just leave it boundless and artificially limit it to the number of rings in a given level?

It's an interesting theory, but until it's confirmed/deconfirmed officially by SEGA/Sonic Team/etc., we should take it at face value (that being Sonic's carrying the Rings), since there's nothing suggesting otherwise.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Yes, but I'm saying that the attacker could turn around accordingly to attack his "backside" (now his frontside, since he turned around) and his face. Anyway, the Wind Waker one is more effective, so it doesn't really matter that much.
Not sure, but I'd imagine that Link would move with something that's pushing him (I'm sure there's an instance in the Zelda games where he's pushed by a wall or something).
True.

As I said in an earlier post, I've heard that the maximum Ring count in that mode is 999,999 from various sources (plus, you can get a lot more than that in other games, such as Sonic 2006).

With his magic armor? Sure, I'm sure the environment still affects him, although I think that's a gameplay thing, my point was between potentially being invulnerable and having Iron Mitts, it would be very hard to just knock the bottle out of his hand in a 2 second frame. And if he's using the Wind Waker one, I think the barrier would cover the bottle.

And ok, it's established Sonic can hold over 999 rings but that video doesn't give us an upper limit though...

1) While Rosalina on her own isn't too impressive, the Lumas are, those things could form into real stars, planets, even REAL black holes. I must emphasize the "real" bit to show that they'd behave like their real life counter-part. Also she has what seems like an impenetrable shield, but since she has to throw it up on reaction it's not as good as say Magic Armor or Stone because of her (presumed) mediocre reaction time. In hindsight though, everyone from about Rosalina to the psychics are very close in power
2) The psychics could easily kill the Samus inside the suit, both Mewtwo and Ness have some sort of telekinesis to attack the defenseless Samus. Meta Knight can teleport to avoid Samus' onslaught as well as shoot sword beams that cut through everything, which means he could teleport circles around Samus and cleave her in half with a sword beam. Kirby in Hypernova form can swallow any of Samus' projectiles and redirect them back at her plus Crash to do massive damage. Kirby's insane durability also makes him a tough opponent.

1) I haven't played either Galaxy game in a while, but can she make them do this of her own will? And if she can form a real black hole, I don't see why see's not #1 if the process can't be interrupted. Not even Super Sonic can outrun a black hole (although whether he could survive one is a different story.

2) Just because the attack is psychic doesn't necessarily mean it attacks her brain or that automatically would penetrate her suit. I'm certain Mewtwo lacks any moves like that. Plus he is likely vulnerable to her darkbeam/darkburst.
And the closest thing Ness has is a move called Rockin Omega, which releases a Psychokinetic wave that strikes all foes. And if his psychic spells work anything like in smash or Earthbound, he has to stand still to cast them and they move slow. Samus's beams and missiles move much quicker.
Not sure where you're getting MK's Galaxia beams cleaves through anything, it sure doesn't in the Kirby games. Going off the games, it would take him AWHILE to whittle down her many energy units with just his sword beam. Also, IIRC his teleports are only quick if used at short range and he typically only teleports horizontally. Because if he is just teleporting along the ground, Samus can easily spray him with any of her weapons. Or make him chase her since his sword beams don't go that far. Unless he leaves the battlefield, in which case it goes slow enough to track by eye.
Kirby can't have crash and hypernova at the same time. He also can't spit swallowed objects with hypernova. He can catch giant (physical) ones and spit them back, but that would only apply to her missiles, which I don't think are big enough to qualify.

 

[Munomario777]

With his magic armor? Sure, I'm sure the environment still affects him, although I think that's a gameplay thing, my point was between potentially being invulnerable and having Iron Mitts, it would be very hard to just knock the bottle out of his hand in a 2 second frame. And if he's using the Wind Waker one, I think the barrier would cover the bottle.

Eh, I'd say if something is pushing him in the games, he can be knocked back, and he's not completely defying the laws of physics after all. Either way, Link's opponent could just shatter the bottle (it's made of glass, after all).

And ok, it's established Sonic can hold over 999 rings but that video doesn't give us an upper limit though...

I've provided the limit of 999,999 Rings from the Chao Garden, as well as reasons why those Rings are the same Rings as in main gameplay.

1) I haven't played either Galaxy game in a while, but can she make them do this of her own will? And if she can form a real black hole, I don't see why see's not #1 if the process can't be interrupted. Not even Super Sonic can outrun a black hole (although whether he could survive one is a different story.

Super Sonic can move at the speed of light (plus, he outruns one on his feet in the last level of Sonic Colors, and he can teleport out of it with Chaos Control). He could probably survive one as well, since he was conscious in the final cutscene of Sonic Colors, when he was in the middle of one. As a side note, I don't recall an instance of a Luma turning into a black hole, only the planet around one.

 

[Nerdicon]

1) I haven't played either Galaxy game in a while, but can she make them do this of her own will? And if she can form a real black hole, I don't see why see's not #1 if the process can't be interrupted. Not even Super Sonic can outrun a black hole (although whether he could survive one is a different story.

The process for creating a black hole takes a while, so she'd have to endure for a solid few seconds.

2) Just because the attack is psychic doesn't necessarily mean it attacks her brain or that automatically would penetrate her suit. I'm certain Mewtwo lacks any moves like that. Plus he is likely vulnerable to her darkbeam/darkburst.
And the closest thing Ness has is a move called Rockin Omega, which releases a Psychokinetic wave that strikes all foes. And if his psychic spells work anything like in smash or Earthbound, he has to stand still to cast them and they move slow. Samus's beams and missiles move much quicker.
Not sure where you're getting MK's Galaxia beams cleaves through anything, it sure doesn't in the Kirby games. Going off the games, it would take him AWHILE to whittle down her many energy units with just his sword beam. Also, IIRC his teleports are only quick if used at short range and he typically only teleports horizontally. Because if he is just teleporting along the ground, Samus can easily spray him with any of her weapons. Or make him chase her since his sword beams don't go that far. Unless he leaves the battlefield, in which case it goes slow enough to track by eye.
Kirby can't have crash and hypernova at the same time. He also can't spit swallowed objects with hypernova. He can catch giant (physical) ones and spit them back, but that would only apply to her missiles, which I don't think are big enough to qualify.

Mewtwo learns Psychic which is literally a "strong telekinetic force" allowing Mewtwo to use telekinesis. There's also no evidence that the telekinesis wouldn't bypass her suit, and it's more likely that it does. Same for Ness, and there's no real evidence Ness has to stay still, the animation just happens. Also, I'm pretty sure against what is essentially Zero Suit Samus PSI Rockin Omega isn't necessary, I'm sure Beta or Sigma (Gamma?) would be sufficient.
MK's ridiculous sword beams are from the anime and before you say "the Kirby anime isn't canon because the anime has no direct impact on the games", the Pokémon anime and the games aren't correlated that strongly either. And there is no real evidence MK needs to be on solid ground to teleport, so one sword beam to the head would instantly kill Samus. Hypernova can swallow energy based objects such as the GIANT DEATH LASER shot by Queen Sectonia which Kirby not only swallows, but spits it back at her (resulting in her death). Who else uses energy based weaponry? If Samus goes all in using the Hyper Beam the redirected beams would most likely do massive damage. Samus with her immense combat knowledge would probably switch to melee (Speed booster or Shinespark) which Kirby could survive, then he could switch to a plethora of different abilities to finish the job (Ice for invincibility while guarding and icy damage, Smash for big hitting attacks and invincibility with stone, Crash to just blow stuff up, etc)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Samus can be hurt by a lot things less impressive than Mewtwo's psychic attacks. Why even argue that it would bypass her suit? As it will.

 

[Nerdicon]

Who killed the thread?
Are we just out of stuff discuss?
Does anyone actually care?
Probably not
Also is so high on my list as he can freeze time just like Sonic, and of course object traveling at an infinite speed = death.
He's below Sonic instead of on the same level as him because Sonic beats Mega Man, every time. Sonic just has (well, assumed) faster reaction speed

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Who killed the thread?
Are we just out of stuff discuss?
Does anyone actually care?
Probably not
Also is so high on my list as he can freeze time just like Sonic, and of course object traveling at an infinite speed = death.
He's below Sonic instead of on the same level as him because Sonic beats Mega Man, every time. Sonic just has (well, assumed) faster reaction speed

I guess there's nothing else to discuss.

And by the way, Rock can't actually attack while he freezes time.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still say that Mewtwo from Pokemon R/B/Y is Top Tier with the moveset Psychic, Recover, Barrier, Amnesia. Taken that in Pokemon Stadium he can fly, I believe he has enough time to realistically set up his Barrier and Amnesia before most could pose a treat. An Amnesia powered Psychic will give everyone trouble. I do not see many characters beating him.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I still say that Mewtwo from Pokemon R/B/Y is Top Tier with the moveset Psychic, Recover, Barrier, Amnesia. Taken that in Pokemon Stadium he can fly, I believe he has enough time to realistically set up his Barrier and Amnesia before most could pose a treat. An Amnesia powered Psychic will give everyone trouble. I do not see many characters beating him.

Well, Diddy is OP, so Mewtwo doesn't stand a chance

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, Diddy is OP, so Mewtwo doesn't stand a chance

True Diddy just needs to dash at Mewtwo before he can set up any of his stat boosters with a cartwheel. Then throw a F Air at his face, follow up with Side B, camp him in the air with peanuts, throw in more aerial strings then finish with U Air. Can't go wrong.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

The process for creating a black hole takes a while, so she'd have to endure for a solid few seconds.

I guess. Rosaluma's never be shown to be super durable, so I think some of the characters below her could kill her before the black hole finished forming.

Mewtwo learns Psychic which is literally a "strong telekinetic force" allowing Mewtwo to use telekinesis. There's also no evidence that the telekinesis wouldn't bypass her suit, and it's more likely that it does. Same for Ness, and there's no real evidence Ness has to stay still, the animation just happens. Also, I'm pretty sure against what is essentially Zero Suit Samus PSI Rockin Omega isn't necessary, I'm sure Beta or Sigma (Gamma?) would be sufficient.
MK's ridiculous sword beams are from the anime and before you say "the Kirby anime isn't canon because the anime has no direct impact on the games", the Pokémon anime and the games aren't correlated that strongly either. And there is no real evidence MK needs to be on solid ground to teleport, so one sword beam to the head would instantly kill Samus. Hypernova can swallow energy based objects such as the GIANT DEATH LASER shot by Queen Sectonia which Kirby not only swallows, but spits it back at her (resulting in her death). Who else uses energy based weaponry? If Samus goes all in using the Hyper Beam the redirected beams would most likely do massive damage. Samus with her immense combat knowledge would probably switch to melee (Speed booster or Shinespark) which Kirby could survive, then he could switch to a plethora of different abilities to finish the job (Ice for invincibility while guarding and icy damage, Smash for big hitting attacks and invincibility with stone, Crash to just blow stuff up, etc)

I'm not saying Psychic wouldn't hurt her, I'm saying I don't think it would be anymore effective on her than any other strong attack in general. Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like you think it will ignore her suit's defense and attack ZSS. Nothing about telekinetic wave implies it does that. It's just a wave of energy that happens to be Psychic powered.

I wasn't using the Pokémon anime as canon source anyway (only as back-up to the games), but regardless I think the games should take priority over the anime if the two contradict.

I didn't recall Kirby swallowing and reflecting Queen Sectiona's death laser, so I'll take your word for it but it doesn't change that Kirby can't have hypernova and abilities at once. If you want to say he gets to discard hypernova to use his powers that's fine, but the switching to different abilities only applies to the ones he got the essences for in Kirby Super Star Ultra, and Smash and crash weren't among those unless it was different in Return to Dreamland (which I haven't played yet).


And where DID everyone go? Thread is so dead.

 

[Munomario777]

It's dead, Jim!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's dead, Jim!

Because we all know that Villager would murder everyone

 

[Munomario777]

Because we all know that Villager would murder everyone

More like we all know that everyone's too slow for Sonic

 

[SirPulse]

how would it not be kirby lol