Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Kirby Dragons]

Anyway, I'm making a tier list like I promised I would after finishing Xenoblade. The tournament is cool in all, but the point of this thread was making a tier list, at least imo. This list is ranked based on how many people they can beat. This is why someone may be ranked above a character who could beat them.
EDIT: After wayyyy too much time, here's my tier list. Feedback appreciated.
S tier

-This is based on assumption that he gets Star Rod, which I think he should get since so many other characters are getting items they only temporarily possessed. The Star Rod grants all wishes and only takes a few seconds to activate. He's quite durable, so I think he could get the wish off before even Sonic has time to turn Super and kill him. He asks for invincibility, then from there wishes his opponent dead. Or something like that.

Can turn into Super Sonic, which makes him able to move at light speed if need be. Also is nearly invincible, vulnerable only to mental attacks, and the strongest of attacks (in theory). But with 999,999 rings (thanks to Chao Garden according to Munomario) he'll last too long for the few people who could beat regular Sonic.

A tier
Unlimited ammo on many of her weapons, can can turn into a invincible, supersonic moving when she needs to go on defense (takes 1 second of running to activate.)
Composite Link, with access to equipment and items from all of his games. Chateau Romani gives 3 days of unlimited magic, which means he can use Magic Cape (makes him intangible and invulnerable) defensively while spamming his ice/fire rods and medallions. Also has 250k rupees to power his magic suit in the rare event his 3 days of magic depletes or if he wants to be more offensive (he can't use other magic items while using magic cape)
Lacks as much offense, as composite Link, and chataeu romani, but still has magic armor plus 250k rupees, which should let him outstall even Kirby.
multiple guards that grant near or total invincibility, the warp star moves at high speeds, hypernova swallows almost anything (albeit is a one time use skill), and has a variety of projectiles.
Access to all the powers (albeit with limited uses) from Uprising, the various light powers her staff provides, flight and the Palutena's Bow.

Can summon Lumas that turn into stars or black holes. Also has a near-impenetrable shield. Has access to one of every power-up from Super Mario 3D world.
Can't be killed by non-holy attacks, although he can be sealed/trapped in other dimension. As far as I know Kirby lacks holy attacks, but Palutena (being a god) and Rosalina (trap him in a black hole) have the edge over Ganondorf but not Kirby, thus Ganon being placed below someone he can beat. Ganondorf can turn invisible and intangible temporarily, fire magical balls, and wield 2 swords at once. As Ganon he can do the above except also wield a trident which shoots out lightning. Only thing Ganon can't do that Ganondorf can is float.


-Give Mewtwo the edge over Ness because although Ness can fully recover all HP for a tiny fraction of his total PP, and has a shield which halves damage while reflecting some, I believe Mewtwo can out last him by peppering him with his variety of specials. Mewtwo can put up a light screen (raises defense by 100%) and than copy either Ness's shield or healing move and out last him.

Tier B:

Can switch classes during battle to fit best situation. Best offense in general though is as a sorceror, where Aversa's Night guarantees she recovers health = 50% of damaged deal with each attack; the skill sol guarantees she gets 100% every other attack. Vantage (when she's under 50% health) acts like visions. Armsthrift makes her not need to worry about durability. Can change into a flier for evasion while attacking from up high with attacks. Changing into a general makes him a stone wall.
Tier C


w/vehicles. Barrel Roll can block even lasers. Below 64. Mario Bros because between their various invincibility granting items plus using Barry to reflect lasers, I think they could probably win. Unsure though.
Double team makes illusions that can boost his evasion by 300%, and going off the anime, these illusions can appear to attack. Then Charizard attacks with an AOE attack to catch MK from flying around too much. Flight gives it edge over other Pokemon.



Her parasol blocks almost any attack, she has access to Pixls that make untouchable and can reflect any attack, plus a bomb and hammer pixl, not to mention her power-ups fro 3D world.
immune to all non-projectiles attacks except from manaketes (dragons)
Visions are powerful but don't change his lack of a projectile.


I feel as MK's size and quick flying speed makes him hard to keep track of and gives him the ability to just fly around these 2 FE characters It'd be like trying to bat a giant fly with an 8 inch sword.
That his clown car can fly, plus has an indefinite amount of bombs, and he can breathe fire gives him edge over apes and most below him.

Yes his car is fast and but as far as I'm aware all it can do is ram into people, and he can't go too fast since the arena is only 10miles by 10 miles and he wouldn't want to crash into a wall...


Tier D

Lack of projectiles puts him below the apes.



Tier F:

Oh, so you admit that Kirby can beat Rosalina? But anyways, I guess I'll make my own list now.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I put examples of characters from other kinds of fiction in each tier. Also added some other guys for fun, like the guys in my sig.
Tier 1 (Living Tribunal):
Sandbag - Completely invincible to absolutely everything.
Maxwell - Can do whatever he wants via the notebook.
Six powerful Pokémon would allow him to do whatever he wants.
Can do whatever he wants via the Monado.
Trick allows him to disarm, has powerful TK, becomes universal as Mega Mewtwo.
Has Inhale to usefully disarm people of their weapons, has crazy feats, can use Galaxia or maybe Star Rod for Ganondorf, fights using both power and variety.
Can do whatever he wants via the Star Rod.
Durability is greatly increased as Super Sonic, had defeated gods of destruction.
Has powerful items and abilities that can combine to lead to invincibility for three days.
Invincible to anything that isn't holy.
Tabuu - Controls Master Hand.
Master Hand - Created a universe, has hidden ultimate power.

Tier 2 (Superman):
Forcefield can block tons of force, universal power, can overwhelm opponents using Lumas, has black holes as instant kills.
Shadow - Can gain great power through the Chaos Emeralds.
Vast variety of powers that grant her different effects, can banish opponents to the underworld if necessary.
Can break through defense using Rapier, can negate all damage with Lightsphere, can cut durability in half with Luna.
See above.
Has galactic attacks, and can heal himself of the strongest of blows.
Black Mage - Spells grant him access to powerful attacks.
Nightmare - Was going to spread himself across the galaxy.
Large planetary feats, vast variety of strong beams that can vaporize enemies, can freeze foes and blast them with missiles for an instant kill.
Over one hundred weapons, has defeated Hades.
Over one hundred weapons, is Pit's equal.
Vast variety of weapons, allowing him to control space and time.
Powerful items and abilities.
Isaac - A lot of Psynergy for offense and defense and support, has range of the Golden Sun.
Ninten - Defeated Giegue, has PSI to mess with his opponents.
Expert healing skills.
Defeated strongest warrior in the galaxy, Mach Tornado is an instant kill, can fly at FTL speeds and teleport.
Crazy Hand - Hangs with Master Hand, strong attacks.
Received power from a goddess, defeated a goddess, can cut durability in half.
Can go Fierce Deity with a mask, confirmed by Game Theory to be the strongest incarnation.

Tier 3 (Luffy):
Ridley - Is giant, keeps up with Samus.
Has power and variety, power-ups allow him to tank strong attacks.
Skull Kid - Powerful abilities with Majora's Mask.
Riki
Magnus - Powerful human swordsman, immense strength.
See above.
Phosphora - Keeps up with Pit, can generate storms.
Mother Brain - Protected by glass and Rinkas.
Ghirahim - Can summon his army, teleportation, powerful forms.
Dark Samus - Keeps up with Samus, powerful darkness attacks.
Master swordsman, useful skills.
Is pretty much invincible, is smarter than he looks, some decent power-ups.
PSI can do powerful things such as protecting him with shields.
Andross - His forces were going to take over the solar system, yet he's a monkey head.
Metroid - Can effectively drain energy.
Vehicles and other weapons give him a huge advantage.
See above.
Elec Man - Massive amounts of electricity generation.
Dillon - Can freeze enemies, is powerful in Arma-Mode, can use explosives.
Starfy - Has powerful spin attacks, has defeated large enemies.
Masked Dedede is what he can use if he gets into too much trouble, also has bombs among other projectiles, can keep up with Kirby.
Lyn - Can increase her resistance, can break through shields and defensive powers, can use Vulneraries to heal herself.
Knocked down a small moon with a punch.
Same as Falco.
Dynal - Can go kaiju, is hard to take down without multiple foes, devastating support effects.
Bandana Waddle Dee - Powerful punch, assisted Kirby in taking down large foes.
King K. Rool - Immense strength, shockwaves, helpful boomerang crown and electrical remote.
Can petrify his opponents and steal moves, and poison, as well as using the Magic Paintbrush for teleportation and such.
Uses aura reading as an effective fighting style, can dodge attacks with Double Team.
Knocked down a small moon with his head.
Has both speed and power on his side, with Shot Put as a projectile if he ever needs it, and is the greatest of the Mii Fighters.
Is similar to Mario and Luigi, but with floating and without certain power-ups.
Dr. Wright - Can save his city from a Godzilla attack.
Ghosts - Uses submarines, can shoot fireballs, can freeze enemies, large mechs.
Is quick, can negate fire attacks, some good thunder attacks, Volt Tackle for power.
Is quick, can avoid damage by using Substitute, Hydro Pump and Giga Impact are powerful, Mat Block is a barrier for defense, Shadow Sneak can bypass defense.
Saki - Took down the government, physically fit, can nullify projectiles.
Can keep opponents at distances with his projectiles.
Took down giant robots, has grenades and bullets.
Jeff - Is incredibly intelligent, great with machines, strong explosives, other useful weapons.
Telepathy, telekinesis, Light Arrows.
Can knock down moons with his punches.
Gray Fox - Can block projectiles, weakened a giant robot.
Drives a supersonic vehicle, has the powerful Falcon Punch, wields a gun for a projectile.
Samurai Goroh - Wields his katana and the Fire Stingray.
Fly is useful, Fire Blast and Flare Blitz are powerful.
Some good plant attacks, can heal self.
Can OHKO by turning enemies into eggs.
Kamek - Flight, fire, teleportation, other magical powers.
Ray MK lll - An upgraded model of previous suits.
Leader of the Koopalings.
All are pretty much equals, with minor magic, and some projectiles.
Waluigi - Can fire the letter on his hat, can fire thorny vines and use them for attacks, can swim through the air, access to Bob-ombs, strong kicks.
Midna - Teleportation, twilight blasts, banishing.
More Pikmin and abilities than Olimar, also with a spaceship.
Athletic abilities, can stun foes with the Paralyzer, can use Gunship for offense and defense.
Took down large robots, can generate electricity, can become iron.
Devil - Has serious power.
Weakest of the Mii Fighters, but has his Final Smash for a finisher, as well as his counter and his reflector.
Bonkers - Explosive coconuts, devastating hammer.
Ashley - Minor magic attacks.
Infantry and Tanks - Some strong weapons, can take down large foes.
Takamaru - Skilled swordsman, with projectiles.
Sablé Prince - Can become animals.
Kat & Ana - Can use objects from microgames.
Athletic abilities, pseudo-teleportation, speed.
Sings enemies to sleep, can heal damage, can copy attacks.
Can paralyze foes, some electricity attacks, Volt Tackle.
Hydro Pump is powerful, Withdraw provides defense.
Is strong enough to lift a castle.
Tingle - Has random equipment.
Helirin - Just try stopping this plane.
Lakitu and Spinies - Drops Spinies from above that can overwhelm opponents.
Excitebikers - There's strength in numbers.
Knuckle Joe - Big brawler, can become a Togeira.

Tier 4 (Me):
Starman - PK Beam.
Sheriff - Has a gun and lasso.
Jill - Reflexes, rides around in a drill.
Chain Chomp - Has a big bite.
Hammer Bro. - Jumps and throws hammers.
Is physically fit and athletic.
Can defeat enemies larger than he is with his Pikmin, has a spaceship, can use Pikmin to block certain attacks.
Can chop down a tree in a few swings, has a variety of random equipment that could come in handy.
Dr. Wright - Giant head, can use numbers to hit enemies.
Urban Champion - Skilled at fighting, namely punches.
Teamwork + hammers.
Random equipment.
Isabelle - Random equipment.
Nintendog - Random equipment.
Not really much they can do. There's an invisible player with a Light Gun, but since he's outside the battle, he'd be disqualified in ten seconds.
Mr. Resetti - Just a mole with a pickaxe.
Barbara - Has a guitar.
Color TV-Game 15 - Can fly and hit opponents with a ball.
Daitoryo - Is only a third of a body.
Can't even move, is tiny.

To be completed soon.

Here's my original list for comparison.

Alright, after reading through this ENTIRE thread, 46 pages of pure awesomeness, I've come to a conclusion. Unlike other tier lists, everyone can beat anyone below them.
Tier 1 (Godlike):







Shulk
Tier 2 (Very Powerful):





Tier 3 (Pretty Strong):




/







Tier 4 (Mid-Tier):




















Tier 5 (Super Weak):

 

[Munomario777]

Launch Stars launch you to other planets, so I don't think they'd be very useful here. Plus, Kirby could intercept the Star Bits with the Warp Star.

Launch Stars launch you to other planets because that's how the level is structured; they could easily be re-aimed. The Warp Star can only be in one place at once; multiple Lumas can fire their own Star Bit streams simultaneously. Also, Lumas can turn into Launch Stars without using any Star Bits.

But there is. He can cause Rosalina to explode, and move her around telekinetically.

One does not simply explode she who is invulnerable to explosions. (AKA Rosalina with the Starman) What good would moving Rosalina around a bit do?

Kirby is immune to gravity on the Warp Star. Does that mean he's immune to black holes as well? And flying on the star, he could swat the Lumas with Rosalina.

The Warp Star can fly, and Kirby is simply hitching a ride. If Kirby rode near a black hole, he would get sucked into it (if not the Warp Star as well). You're not going to get very far swatting hundreds of Lumas with one person, especially if said person deals touch damage (the Starman defeats any normal enemies the foe touches, and would damage Kirby as well, if not defeat him instantly).

I don't think she could teleport when she's being twirled around like that. The enemy's mouth was probably open because of the beam shot at him. His arms were trapped. If they weren't, he would have flailed them, tried to grab his vehicle, shot them up, etc.

What exactly would stop Rosalina from doing this when spinning at moderate speeds? (Remember, Kirby is eight inches tall, so we should scale the enemy's movements accordingly.) How would shooting a beam at someone cause their mouth to be open? Even if it did, screaming requires one to use their vocal cords, as well as exhaling in the right way to make a screaming sound, not just opening their mouth. His arms were held up; rewatch the video. He probably didn't try to grab his vehicle because A) he was confused/in shock, B) he knew it wouldn't do anything for him anyway (Kirby still could have done that if he grabbed his vehicle), or C) it's not the best idea to reach out for your vehicle while spinning at such high speeds.

Kirby just has to wait ten seconds. Not that big a deal. Considering the speed Kirby can run, he'd be able to dodge the Lumas if they chase him. And while the Starman blocks damage, the controlling beam doesn't do any damage. Kirby could keep Rosalina at bay for ten seconds, swatting the Lumas like I said above, and then blow her up when the time comes.

Ten seconds is a lot of time for Rosalina when she can:

• Create one black hole in one second at most
• Flood the arena with black holes in a similar amount of time due to having multiple Lumas to shoot Star Bits
• Create a star very quickly by simply sacrificing a Luma
• Not to mention the extra twenty-five seconds the Mega Mushroom provides.

While Gourmet Race might make Kirby seem pretty quick, you're forgetting that he's eight inches tall, and thus his speed should be scaled accordingly. Compare that to a Luma's speed at which they can fly and then transform, and Kirby doesn't stand a chance in this race.
What indication do we have that the controlling beam is a laser in the first place? Lasers are usually straight, after all, and if you pause in the video when Kirby is firing his beam, it is very crooked. This leads me to believe that it's some other kind of energy, most likely a telekinetic force, since Kirby can move the target physically, but not mentally (they still scream, after all). This whole deal about Kirby being eight inches tall reminds me of a certain enemy called the Micro-Goomba from the Mario series. As demonstrated in Super Mario 3D World, they're quite weak indeed. Watch Peach in that video. The Micro-Goomba runs towards her, and she simply stomps on it for a one hit kill. In fact, they can also be pushed away by simply blowing at them (in 3D World, the input for this is blowing on the Gamepad). Of course, Rosalina can do this too, like most things in 3D World. This really gives us a good sense of scale in size and power.

224,000 mph is still 3700 miles per second. Kirby could run to Rosie before she could so much think, punch her twice, she's dead. In the anime, Kirby dodged several, untelegraphed strikes. It's a contradiction on Kracko, but not Kirby's speed.

Miles per minute, actually. Holy telegraphed attack, Batman! Do you have video of those instances in the anime?

The only time he holds the Monado is when he takes it from Shulk. Are you saying because he is capable of holding the Monado that he can't be the Monado?

Well, that does provide further evidence, but in conjunction with the fact that he refers to the Monado in the third person (as a separate entity; i.e. "The Monado did this" as opposed to "I did this"), as well as that whole Monado code name thing.

I also don't see a difference between saying "I am the Monado" vs "I am Monado".

It's mainly just supporting evidence to the whole codename Monado thing. It wouldn't prove anything by itself, but it supports other findings that do.

Explain?

The final boss of EarthBound looks like a fetus.

S tier

-This is based on assumption that he gets Star Rod, which I think he should get since so many other characters are getting items they only temporarily possessed. The Star Rod grants all wishes and only takes a few seconds to activate. He's quite durable, so I think he could get the wish off before even Sonic has time to turn Super and kill him. He asks for invincibility, then from there wishes his opponent dead. Or something like that.

Are we using Paper Mario as canon though? It's literally called "Mario Story" in Japan, it has "chapters", it takes place on a stage, and there are other details throughout the games that hint at the subseries being a stage play/book/alternate canon.

If we are taking Paper Mario as canon, then there's a few things that we need to remember when discussing the Star Rod. First off, in the final battle of Paper Mario, Bowser and the Star Rod were given additional power by the "Power Platform", or the arena fight took place on. Without the enhanced power from the Power Platform, we see the Star Rod grant Bowser invincibility (which can be pierced, but I'll get to that later) and bump up Bowser's attack strength from dealing 1 HP to 3 HP of damage. Not only that, but his defenses aren't completely invulnerable. You see, in Paper Mario, there are seven Star Spirits, who are basically plot macguffins to reach the next area. Each one gives Mario a unique ability to use in battle. When Mario collects all seven, he gets a power called the Star Beam. This will remove any status effects put on enemies (such as invisibility, for example), including Bowser's Star Rod invincibility (pre-Power Platform). Since this powerful attack can pierce the Star Rod's invincibility, there should also be other ways to do this, possessed by other characters. Some of the likely candidates include:

• Zelda/Link's Light Arrows (pierce otherwise undamageable defenses)
• Sonic's Chaos Emeralds (seven powerful artifacts that can turn thoughts into power, similar to the Star Spirits' wish-granting abilities)
• Palutena's Mega Laser (a beam of heavenly descent)
• Psychic attacks (since those could attack from the inside, and not get blocked by the Star Rod's protective barrier)
• Other powerful attacks that I'm probably forgetting

While the Star Rod may make Bowser much more powerful than he would be without it, the rod still has its fair share of limitations.

Oh, so you admit that Kirby can beat Rosalina? But anyways, I guess I'll make my own list now.

No...

This list is ranked based on how many people they can beat. This is why someone may be ranked above a character who could beat them.

 

[Crystanium]

Okay so in Earthbound, for Ness to defeat Giygas, the main baddie, he travels back in time to fight Giygas while he is in a weaker form. It is a popular gaming theory that Ness actually travels back in time to fight Giygas while he is still a fetus because of the look of the environment you travel through and the actual look of Giygas himself.

If you have never seen Game Theory before on YouTube I highly recommend it. Here is a video he did on Earthbound which includes the fetus aborting statement.
https://youtu.be/552iTUDwYb8

But yeah, Ness can kill you while you're still a fetus. That's hardcore.

You're just experiencing pareidolia. That's all this "theory" stands on. Oh, and Itoi chose "Mother" as the name of the series because it seemed the least game-like. Watch.

 

[blue_flavored]

You're just experiencing pareidolia. That's all this "theory" stands on. Oh, and Itoi chose "Mother" as the name of the series because it seemed the least game-like. Watch.

Just having fun with the topic man, try not to take me too seriously

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Okay so in Earthbound, for Ness to defeat Giygas, the main baddie, he travels back in time to fight Giygas while he is in a weaker form. It is a popular gaming theory that Ness actually travels back in time to fight Giygas while he is still a fetus because of the look of the environment you travel through and the actual look of Giygas himself.

If you have never seen Game Theory before on YouTube I highly recommend it. Here is a video he did on Earthbound which includes the fetus aborting statement.
https://youtu.be/552iTUDwYb8

But yeah, Ness can kill you while you're still a fetus. That's hardcore.

I'm not sure that qualifies since the way he time travels is, going off of Google, something called the Phase Distorter 3 isn't his item. Even if it was, it takes nearly 20 seconds to start. Since there's no indication it's extremely durable or invincible, it could be destroyed before it starts.

BTW have you beaten Earthbound? Wondering because I remember hearing after beating his evil self that Ness gained the power to create anything with his mind, just wondering if you remember anything about that

Oh, so you admit that Kirby can beat Rosalina? But anyways, I guess I'll make my own list now.

I think it's a toss-up, to be honest, I just feel Kirby can beat more people than Rosalina. I would give Kirby a narrow edge right now, but even if I changed my mind I'd still probably keep Kirby over Rosalina since that's just one match-up.

Well, that does provide further evidence, but in conjunction with the fact that he refers to the Monado in the third person (as a separate entity; i.e. "The Monado did this" as opposed to "I did this"), as well as that whole Monado code name thing.

I don't agree referring to it in 3rd person means it's a different entity, especially since he was keeping his identity secret through the game. That he can hold the sword that he is just shows he can be in multiple places at once. It's the non-religious version of the Holy Trinity being 3 different spirits but all the same thing.

If we are taking Paper Mario as canon, then there's a few things that we need to remember when discussing the Star Rod. First off, in the final battle of Paper Mario, Bowser and the Star Rod were given additional power by the "Power Platform", or the arena fight took place on. Since this powerful attack can pierce the Star Rod's invincibility, there should also be other ways to do this, possessed by other characters. Some of the likely candidates include:

• Zelda/Link's Light Arrows (pierce otherwise undamageable defenses)
• Sonic's Chaos Emeralds (seven powerful artifacts that can turn thoughts into power, similar to the Star Spirits' wish-granting abilities)
• Palutena's Mega Laser (a beam of heavenly descent)
• Psychic attacks (since those could attack from the inside, and not get blocked by the Star Rod's protective barrier)
• Other powerful attacks that I'm probably forgetting

While the Star Rod may make Bowser much more powerful than he would be without it, the rod still has its fair share of limitations.

I hope this doesn't come off wrong, but I've actually played Paper Mario, so the drawn out details aren't necessary if you want to save yourself some characters next time.
Anyway,

As for the attacks listed

• Light Arrow: Seems plausible enough to me.
• Super Sonic: I don't think it would counteract it the way the Star beam does, but if you want to say he could hurt Bowser when he's wished for invincibility since the Chaos emeralds have a similar power, then I could buy that.
• Paluetna's Mega Laser: Same as above, except I think any Palutena attack could hurt him.
• Psychic attacks: Yes, but there's nothing to stop him from adding "I wish to be immune from Psychic attacks" to remove this weakness.
• Disagree on other powerful attacks, I think they'd specifically (possibly) be vulnerable to holy attacks/weapons, although I think even that's doubtful since it takes the combined might of all 7 Star Spirits to hurt him while individually their attacks do jack.

I think it's important to note that the star/peach beam aren't piercing his invincibility, they are removing it. It's also worth noting those beams don't stop him from granting other wishes in the 3 turns he's unable to wish for invincibility.

 

[Munomario777]

I don't agree referring to it in 3rd person means it's a different entity, especially since he was keeping his identity secret through the game. That he can hold the sword that he is just shows he can be in multiple places at once. It's the non-religious version of the Holy Trinity being 3 different spirits but all the same thing.

I agree that if it was only Alvis saying "I am Monado" instead of "I am the Monado", it wouldn't mean anything. However, when you combine this with this quote from the Xenoblade Wiki:

Alvis is Monado, because Monado is actually the system that was used during Zanza's experiment (Alvis is another name for the experiment). Therefore, when they said that the Monado has the capability to change the world, it is proven true since it actually did.

"I am Monado" seems to support this explanation.

I hope this doesn't come off wrong, but I've actually played Paper Mario, so the drawn out details aren't necessary if you want to save yourself some characters next time.

Ah. Still, I think it's best to write what I'm talking about, for posterity and such.

Anyway,

As for the attacks listed

• Light Arrow: Seems plausible enough to me.
• Super Sonic: I don't think it would counteract it the way the Star beam does, but if you want to say he could hurt Bowser when he's wished for invincibility since the Chaos emeralds have a similar power, then I could buy that.
• Paluetna's Mega Laser: Same as above, except I think any Palutena attack could hurt him.
• Psychic attacks: Yes, but there's nothing to stop him from adding "I wish to be immune from Psychic attacks" to remove this weakness.
• Disagree on other powerful attacks, I think they'd specifically (possibly) be vulnerable to holy attacks/weapons, although I think even that's doubtful since it takes the combined might of all 7 Star Spirits to hurt him while individually their attacks do jack.

• Light Arrow: Glad we're on the same page.
• The Star Beam is powered by seven powerful, magical stars. The Chaos Emeralds are seven powerful, magical gemstones. Seems plausible enough to me. Not to mention the Master Emerald and all.
• Mega Laser: True.
• Psychic attacks: Well, it looks like the Star Rod has only affected the outside of Bowser. I'll get into what the Star Rod would and wouldn't be able to do for Bowser in a minute.
• Powerful attacks: Hmm, true.

I think it's important to note that the star/peach beam aren't piercing his invincibility, they are removing it.

Yes, very true.

It's also worth noting those beams don't stop him from granting other wishes in the 3 turns he's unable to wish for invincibility.

Yes, he could, but I don't think Bowser could quite wish for anything he wants, at least not in this sort of scenario. Let me explain: Throughout the two battles with Mario, Bowser had a wish-granting Star Rod, which can grant any wish. Why not just wish that Mario is dead? In fact, there are a multitude of things Bowser could have wished for to make the fight easier, but he didn't. Why? Well, we see that the Star Rod's abilities are enhanced if it has more power; the Power Platform enhances the Star Rod's attacks, defense, and healing, after all. Thus, a likely explanation is that the Star Rod can grant any wish, if it has enough power to draw from. Without any external power, Bowser can use the Star Rod to:

• Create a shockwave attack
• Form a protective barrier that can only be negated by attacks like the Star Rod
• Heal himself for two-fifths of his maximum health

Since Bowser doesn't have any power source to hook the Star Rod up to, its abilities are relatively limited. However, with a large enough power source (which the Star Haven could very well have), it could do amazing things, such as granting any wish imaginable.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Source?

Kirby takes down the sun and moon of his universe. Note how he doesn't take damage when he gets close to the sun.

Black holes don't seem to have an expiration date; they just sit there, being black holes for an indefinite amount of time. Since Stone Kirby falls like, well, a rock, and black holes rely on gravity to suck in opponents, then Stone Kirby would, if anything, go into the black hole more quickly than regular, lightweight Kirby. While Stone Kirby might not be instantly spaghettified, regular Kirby would once he transformed back to normal. He wouldn't be able to do anything either, since not even light can escape a black hole.

Well, Kirby would just wait forever. This would end in a stalemate, because neither fighter can hurt the other.

Perhaps, but they wouldn't go through her invincibility items.

What invincibility items? I know of only one item that gives Rosalina invincibility. And if Kirby was stupid enough to use those abilities in a row without stopping (which he isn't, he'd wait out the Starman), then the attacks would still hit.

Ten seconds isn't really a low number when you can create a black hole in less than a second. If Kirby just ran around, it would make him an easy target for one of Rosalina's black holes (Kirby isn't very fast, after all).

62 miles per second seems pretty fast to me. And if he is on the side of, or above, a black hole, it won't suck him in.

Ah, but Lumas turn into stars when they die, remember? Assuming that the foe dies when they enter Kirby's mouth (since they can be spat out as stars before they're swallowed), the Luma dies in Kirby's mouth, becomes the spiciest meal on earth, and Kirby dies. If I'm not mistaken, the Invincibility Candy doesn't protect Kirby from lava, and stars are much hotter than lava at their core (where Kirby would be, given that it just formed in his mouth or right in front of him).

If Kirby swallowed a Luma, it would lose its properties when Kirby transmutes it into a star. It changes form, so it's not a Luma anymore.

If Kirby inhaled the black hole without an Invincibility Candy (which he wouldn't have access to eventually, since he only has a few of them), it would rip him apart from the inside out. If he didn't inhale it, he wouldn't be able to escape the black hole (again, invincible Kirby is still affected by gravity), and when the Invincibility Candy runs out, Kirby gets spaghettified. Falling into a black hole seems comparable to falling into a bottomless pit (that's the purpose they serve in Galaxy, after all, and they OHKO Rainbow Mario in that game).

The effect of the black hole would be neutralized when it's in Kirby's stomach. When Kirby inhaled Sectonia's blast, it didn't hurt him in any way.

Launch Stars launch you to other planets because that's how the level is structured; they could easily be re-aimed. The Warp Star can only be in one place at once; multiple Lumas can fire their own Star Bit streams simultaneously. Also, Lumas can turn into Launch Stars without using any Star Bits.

Kirby could still intercept the Star Bits when the Lumas want to use them for black holes or stars.

One does not simply explode she who is invulnerable to explosions. (AKA Rosalina with the Starman) What good would moving Rosalina around a bit do?

But she's not invulnerable. Starmen don't protect her from lava, which is only deadly because of its extreme heat. Explosion is a heat attack. Also, the Starman doesn't protect her from one-shot attacks.

The Warp Star can fly, and Kirby is simply hitching a ride. If Kirby rode near a black hole, he would get sucked into it (if not the Warp Star as well). You're not going to get very far swatting hundreds of Lumas with one person, especially if said person deals touch damage (the Starman defeats any normal enemies the foe touches, and would damage Kirby as well, if not defeat him instantly).

Kirby could hold onto the Warp Star to prevent from getting sucked in. And when would Rosie even touch Kirby? The controlling beam is fired from afar. He would use his telekinetic control over Rosalina to swat the Lumas.

What exactly would stop Rosalina from doing this when spinning at moderate speeds? (Remember, Kirby is eight inches tall, so we should scale the enemy's movements accordingly.) How would shooting a beam at someone cause their mouth to be open? Even if it did, screaming requires one to use their vocal cords, as well as exhaling in the right way to make a screaming sound, not just opening their mouth. His arms were held up; rewatch the video. He probably didn't try to grab his vehicle because A) he was confused/in shock, B) he knew it wouldn't do anything for him anyway (Kirby still could have done that if he grabbed his vehicle), or C) it's not the best idea to reach out for your vehicle while spinning at such high speeds.

Like the enemy, Rosalina would probably be busy screaming. And Kirby could cause her to explode before the teleport completes, he just needs to subtract the spin. The enemy's mouth would be open because he was about to scream when he saw Kirby shoot him. Vocal cords are an internal body part, Kirby didn't take control of it. He took control of everything on the outside. If necessary, Kirby can tilt Rosie and swat her into the ground, which would knock the wand away.

Miles per minute, actually. Holy telegraphed attack, Batman! Do you have video of those instances in the anime?

I don't know the exact point, but it's somewhere in there. Kirby and Tiff run from several of Kracko's lightning bolts, while everyone else is struck by them.

"I am Monado" seems to support this explanation.

Come on, dude. Your argument is weak, Shulk gets Alvis/Monado/the Monado/whatever you want to call it.

Yes, he could, but I don't think Bowser could quite wish for anything he wants, at least not in this sort of scenario. Let me explain: Throughout the two battles with Mario, Bowser had a wish-granting Star Rod, which can grant any wish. Why not just wish that Mario is dead? In fact, there are a multitude of things Bowser could have wished for to make the fight easier, but he didn't. Why? Well, we see that the Star Rod's abilities are enhanced if it has more power; the Power Platform enhances the Star Rod's attacks, defense, and healing, after all. Thus, a likely explanation is that the Star Rod can grant any wish, if it has enough power to draw from. Without any external power, Bowser can use the Star Rod to:

• Create a shockwave attack
• Form a protective barrier that can only be negated by attacks like the Star Rod
• Heal himself for two-fifths of his maximum health

Since Bowser doesn't have any power source to hook the Star Rod up to, its abilities are relatively limited. However, with a large enough power source (which the Star Haven could very well have), it could do amazing things, such as granting any wish imaginable.

It's called PIS (plot-induced stupidity). If they made it so Bowser could instantly kill you, the game would literally be unbeatable. Likewise, if Sonic ever used his time manipulation in the Sonic games, they would be way too easy and nobody would play them.

Also, something I should mention regarding Rosalina vs Kirby. I did a bit of research, and it turns out Rosalina doesn't have any Star Bits. They're something that Mario collects. Rosalina has never been seen with them outside of Smash. This isn't a Palutena situation; Rosalina didn't create the Star Bits, nor does she give them to others, or anything like that. No black holes or stars or anything.

Also, is anyone heavily supporting Link being able to beat Mewtwo? I'd argue otherwise, the psychic could use Trick or TK to steal all of Link's strongest items, leaving him with pretty much nothing.

 

[Munomario777]

Kirby takes down the sun and moon of his universe. Note how he doesn't take damage when he gets close to the sun.

Yes, because a one-foot-high sun is the exact same as a full-scale, hundreds-of-thousands-wide star.

Well, Kirby would just wait forever. This would end in a stalemate, because neither fighter can hurt the other.

There are no ties. One person survives, and the other does not. In the case of a stalemate, we must determine who has the upper hand. Seeing as how Kirby is currently inside of a black hole, we give the victory to Rosalina if this happens.

What invincibility items? I know of only one item that gives Rosalina invincibility. And if Kirby was stupid enough to use those abilities in a row without stopping (which he isn't, he'd wait out the Starman), then the attacks would still hit.

In addition to the Starman, there's also the Mega Mushroom and the Lucky Bell, which have been shown to have the same level of invulnerability as the Starman if I'm not mistaken.

62 miles per second seems pretty fast to me. And if he is on the side of, or above, a black hole, it won't suck him in.

When exactly does Kirby run at 62 miles per second, may I ask? The Lumas have very precise aiming when it comes to transforming into things, as shown by the fact that they arrange the black holes, planetoids, and such in a very precise fashion when they create galaxies (Star Bits are often precisely resting on small objects, for example), so Kirby wouldn't be above or to the side of the black hole; he'd be right smack-dab in the middle.

If Kirby swallowed a Luma, it would lose its properties when Kirby transmutes it into a star. It changes form, so it's not a Luma anymore.

As shown by?

The effect of the black hole would be neutralized when it's in Kirby's stomach. When Kirby inhaled Sectonia's blast, it didn't hurt him in any way.

Kirby's stomach is apparently invulnerable to lasers, then. How does that allow him to swallow a black hole? If he tried to, he would get pulled in once it neared his mouth anyways.

Kirby could still intercept the Star Bits when the Lumas want to use them for black holes or stars.

Using which method?

But she's not invulnerable. Starmen don't protect her from lava, which is only deadly because of its extreme heat. Explosion is a heat attack. Also, the Starman doesn't protect her from one-shot attacks.

But it does protect her from Bob-Ombs. You know, the bombs that attack by exploding?

Kirby could hold onto the Warp Star to prevent from getting sucked in. And when would Rosie even touch Kirby? The controlling beam is fired from afar. He would use his telekinetic control over Rosalina to swat the Lumas.

One does not simply prevent getting sucked into a singularity that not even light can escape from by holding onto a small hoverboard. Rosalina would attack Kirby with black holes; they are used from afar as well.

Like the enemy, Rosalina would probably be busy screaming. And Kirby could cause her to explode before the teleport completes, he just needs to subtract the spin. The enemy's mouth would be open because he was about to scream when he saw Kirby shoot him. Vocal cords are an internal body part, Kirby didn't take control of it. He took control of everything on the outside. If necessary, Kirby can tilt Rosie and swat her into the ground, which would knock the wand away.

Rosalina has been shown to keep her cool in tricky situations, so she would likely have the presence of mind to teleport away (and if not, the Lumas could attack Kirby while he's doing his fancy wand twirling). I've said why the explosion would be ineffective. If Rosalina's wand was knocked away (which is a pretty big "if", considering the protective force field would prevent Kirby from doing what you described), the Lumas would not be hindered in any way, and could still turn into black holes and such.

I don't know the exact point, but it's somewhere in there. Kirby and Tiff run from several of Kracko's lightning bolts, while everyone else is struck by them.

If I can see those lightning bolts moving in a 30fps video, they're not moving at real lightning speeds.

Come on, dude. Your argument is weak, Shulk gets Alvis/Monado/the Monado/whatever you want to call it.

My main argument is not Alvis saying "I am Monado." My main argument consists of the following:

• "Monado" not only refers to the sword, but also a project of some sort separate from the sword.
• Alvis refers to the Monado (the sword) in the third person, as if it were a separate entity (i.e. "The Monado did this" as opposed to "I did this").
• As supporting evidence (as opposed to the main evidence that I'm basing my statement on), Alvis says "I am Monado" (the project) as opposed to "I am the Monado" (the sword). This is basically the cherry on top of this little sundae here.

It's called PIS (plot-induced stupidity). If they made it so Bowser could instantly kill you, the game would literally be unbeatable. Likewise, if Sonic ever used his time manipulation in the Sonic games, they would be way too easy and nobody would play them.

Normally, I would agree. However, this has in-game evidence that backs up the theory (such as how the Star Rod powers up as it gets more energy, with the Power Platform enhancing its abilities), so it's not for sure just gameplay-story segregation.

Also, something I should mention regarding Rosalina vs Kirby. I did a bit of research, and it turns out Rosalina doesn't have any Star Bits. They're something that Mario collects. Rosalina has never been seen with them outside of Smash. This isn't a Palutena situation; Rosalina didn't create the Star Bits, nor does she give them to others, or anything like that. No black holes or stars or anything.

Rosalina is the mother of the cosmos, including Star Bits. If Mario (the plumber who has no special relationship to the cosmos other than through Rosalina) can hold Star Bits, then surely Rosalina could. Either way, the Lumas can.

Also, is anyone heavily supporting Link being able to beat Mewtwo? I'd argue otherwise, the psychic could use Trick or TK to steal all of Link's strongest items, leaving him with pretty much nothing.

* Link drinks Chateau Romani *
* Equips Magic Armor *
* Is invulnerable to Mewtwo's attacks * (Protect forms a forcefield and blocks them; the Magic Armor forms a force field and blocks them)
* Destroys Mewtwo *

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Yes, because a one-foot-high sun is the exact same as a full-scale, hundreds-of-thousands-wide star.

They're a lot bigger than they actually seem.

And the sun can make it daytime. It would take tons of solar energy to do that.

There are no ties. One person survives, and the other does not. In the case of a stalemate, we must determine who has the upper hand. Seeing as how Kirby is currently inside of a black hole, we give the victory to Rosalina if this happens.

Kirby isn't inside the black hole, because Stone Kirby can become immune to the black hole's suction. Kirby would be completely invincible to everything, so that's quite an upper hand if you ask me.

In addition to the Starman, there's also the Mega Mushroom and the Lucky Bell, which have been shown to have the same level of invulnerability as the Starman if I'm not mistaken.

If they're on the same level, then that means they'll all explode to Baton Kirby.

When exactly does Kirby run at 62 miles per second, may I ask? The Lumas have very precise aiming when it comes to transforming into things, as shown by the fact that they arrange the black holes, planetoids, and such in a very precise fashion when they create galaxies (Star Bits are often precisely resting on small objects, for example), so Kirby wouldn't be above or to the side of the black hole; he'd be right smack-dab in the middle.

When he's dodging Kracko's lightning. And Kirby can avoid the Lumas when they're chasing him, before they transform. Kirby on the Warp Star has precise dodging of attacks, and also destroying enemies by flying through them. The Lumas get destroyed.

As shown by?

When Kirby inhales an enemy and it's transmuted.

Using which method?

The Warp Star.

But it does protect her from Bob-Ombs. You know, the bombs that attack by exploding?

• Bob-ombs explode on Rosalina. Baton Kirby causes Rosalina to explode.
• Bob-ombs aren't a one-hit kill.
• Bob-ombs aren't as hot as lava is.

One does not simply prevent getting sucked into a singularity that not even light can escape from by holding onto a small hoverboard. Rosalina would attack Kirby with black holes; they are used from afar as well.

Kirby could dodge the Lumas before they explode anyways.

Rosalina has been shown to keep her cool in tricky situations, so she would likely have the presence of mind to teleport away (and if not, the Lumas could attack Kirby while he's doing his fancy wand twirling). I've said why the explosion would be ineffective. If Rosalina's wand was knocked away (which is a pretty big "if", considering the protective force field would prevent Kirby from doing what you described), the Lumas would not be hindered in any way, and could still turn into black holes and such.

Kirby can prevent the Lumas from attacking by hitting them with the Warp Star or Rosalina. The explosion would be effective. Rosalina can't move her hands, so no forcefields or teleportation.

If I can see those lightning bolts moving in a 30fps video, they're not moving at real lightning speeds.

Pffft, I can see lightning bolts in real life. And Sonic runs at the speed of sound, yet you can still see him. The screen makes it so that you can see what's actually happening so you aren't confused.

My main argument is not Alvis saying "I am Monado." My main argument consists of the following:

• "Monado" not only refers to the sword, but also a project of some sort separate from the sword.
• Alvis refers to the Monado (the sword) in the third person, as if it were a separate entity (i.e. "The Monado did this" as opposed to "I did this").
• As supporting evidence (as opposed to the main evidence that I'm basing my statement on), Alvis says "I am Monado" (the project) as opposed to "I am the Monado" (the sword). This is basically the cherry on top of this little sundae here.

Then Sonic can't use Wisps, because they actually have the powers you say they do, and not Sonic.

Normally, I would agree. However, this has in-game evidence that backs up the theory (such as how the Star Rod powers up as it gets more energy, with the Power Platform enhancing its abilities), so it's not for sure just gameplay-story segregation.

Well, it's at full power in the final boss fight, isn't it? And Bowser doesn't wish Mario dead.

Rosalina is the mother of the cosmos, including Star Bits. If Mario (the plumber who has no special relationship to the cosmos other than through Rosalina) can hold Star Bits, then surely Rosalina could. Either way, the Lumas can.

And Barack Obama is the president of the US. That doesn't mean he can use my bed, which was made in America. Mario has been to the cosmos; I have been in America. Also, Lumas receive Star Bits through Mario, who isn't present in this fight. If a Luma gets a Star Bit, they can only eat it. When would the Lumas be fed Star Bits here?

* Link drinks Chateau Romani *
* Equips Magic Armor *
* Is invulnerable to Mewtwo's attacks * (Protect forms a forcefield and blocks them; the Magic Armor forms a force field and blocks them)
* Destroys Mewtwo *

* Mewtwo takes Chateau Romani using Trick *
* Mewtwo takes Magic Armor using Trick *
* Mewtwo uses Teleport to move around until Link's armor is out of Rupees (provided he doesn't take it)*
* Mewtwo annihilates Link with Psychic and such *

 

[Munomario777]

They're a lot bigger than they actually seem.
View attachment 44011
And the sun can make it daytime. It would take tons of solar energy to do that.

Yes, but when Kirby fights them, they are only about as tall as he is. Even at the size in that image, they're still tiny in comparison to a real-world star.

Kirby isn't inside the black hole, because Stone Kirby can become immune to the black hole's suction. Kirby would be completely invincible to everything, so that's quite an upper hand if you ask me.

Stone Kirby is affected by gravity. Black holes attract things using gravity. This isn't a wind suction like Kirby's Inhale; it's creating gravity to change the direction that an object falls, and making that object fall very, very quickly.

If they're on the same level, then that means they'll all explode to Baton Kirby.

Because?

When he's dodging Kracko's lightning. And Kirby can avoid the Lumas when they're chasing him, before they transform. Kirby on the Warp Star has precise dodging of attacks, and also destroying enemies by flying through them. The Lumas get destroyed.

When is it said that Kirby ran that quickly? If Kirby destroys the Luma by ramming into it with the Warp Star, guess what? That Luma turns into a star and engulfs Kirby.

When Kirby inhales an enemy and it's transmuted.

I'd imagine that being transmutated into an inanimate object would cause the victim to die, no?

The Warp Star.

To do what exactly? Ramming wouldn't quite work out for Kirby for reasons mentioned above.

• Bob-ombs explode on Rosalina. Baton Kirby causes Rosalina to explode.
• Bob-ombs aren't a one-hit kill.
• Bob-ombs aren't as hot as lava is.

• And being exploded on also causes Rosalina to explode.
• They are if Rosalina is in her small form (which appears to be the state of the enemy that Kirby uses Baton on, using Kirby's height of eight inches for scale).
• Neither is the Baton explosion.

Kirby could dodge the Lumas before they explode anyways.

How? If a Luma turns into a star, there's literally no room to run in a ten-mile-wide arena.

Kirby can prevent the Lumas from attacking by hitting them with the Warp Star or Rosalina. The explosion would be effective. Rosalina can't move her hands, so no forcefields or teleportation.

And if Kirby kills a Luma, it turns into a star and engulfs him (also, if Kirby got off of his Warp Star and used it to attack, he would be slow again). What makes you say that force fields and teleportation require hand movements?

Pffft, I can see lightning bolts in real life. And Sonic runs at the speed of sound, yet you can still see him. The screen makes it so that you can see what's actually happening so you aren't confused.

Seeing lightning bolts and seeing them move are two different things. In real life, lightning just appears. In Kirby, lightning can be seen moving. The difference between Sonic and the lightning bolts is that Sonic has lore backing up his speed, while the lightning bolts don't. Whether or not it's meant to make things visible to the viewer, until we have lore saying that the lightning bolts move that quickly, they only move at the speeds at which we see them moving.

Then Sonic can't use Wisps, because they actually have the powers you say they do, and not Sonic.

Wisps are power-ups. Alvis is a character who can act on his own and do things separate from Shulk.

Well, it's at full power in the final boss fight, isn't it? And Bowser doesn't wish Mario dead.

Who ever said the Power Platform was the full power of the Star Rod?

And Barack Obama is the president of the US. That doesn't mean he can use my bed, which was made in America. Mario has been to the cosmos; I have been in America. Also, Lumas receive Star Bits through Mario, who isn't present in this fight. If a Luma gets a Star Bit, they can only eat it. When would the Lumas be fed Star Bits here?

Correct, but there aren't really any rules like that in space (not to mention that the Star Bits don't seem to belong to anyone in particular before they're collected). Just because you've been somewhere doesn't mean that you have authority there; I could visit, say, Spain for a weekend, but I'm not a Spanish citizen. Mario isn't present here, but Rosalina is.

* Mewtwo takes Chateau Romani using Trick *
* Mewtwo takes Magic Armor using Trick *
* Mewtwo uses Teleport to move around until Link's armor is out of Rupees (provided he doesn't take it)*
* Mewtwo annihilates Link with Psychic and such *

Except Link has some Magic before he uses Chateau Romani. First, he equips the Magic Armor (to be clear, I'm referring to the Wind Waker version, which creates a force field and uses Magic instead of Rupees). Then, he drinks the Chateau Romani while he's protected to prolong his Magic Meter. Then he just whittles down Mewtwo until he wins.

 

[Nerdicon]

So you're only claim that it goes through her shield is that you believe it's a laser correct? I don't believe that video is enough evidence that it's definitely "laser" and not some other type of energy. Also her teleport takes like 5 seconds, more than enough to teleport away while Kirby is waiting on his warp star to appear.

As long as the beam is made of some sort of electromagnetic energy, then it will pierce the shield. If it's a mechanical wave than it should pierce the shield
This is the speed of Rosalina's teleport, and we don't even see how slow the reentry is. The warp star (according to memory, I'll keep searching for gameplay) takes only 4-5 seconds to call in. No biggie, especially when you can just guard until it arrives (after initially calling it)

S tier

-This is based on assumption that he gets Star Rod, which I think he should get since so many other characters are getting items they only temporarily possessed. The Star Rod grants all wishes and only takes a few seconds to activate. He's quite durable, so I think he could get the wish off before even Sonic has time to turn Super and kill him. He asks for invincibility, then from there wishes his opponent dead. Or something like that.

Can turn into Super Sonic, which makes him able to move at light speed if need be. Also is nearly invincible, vulnerable only to mental attacks, and the strongest of attacks (in theory). But with 999,999 rings (thanks to Chao Garden according to Munomario) he'll last too long for the few people who could beat regular Sonic.

A tier

Unlimited ammo on many of her weapons, can can turn into a invincible, supersonic moving when she needs to go on defense (takes 1 second of running to activate.)

Should be lower, she can't change directions after activating the Shinespark and gets easily defeated by Ness, Mewtwo, Kirby, and Ganondorf. Pit and Palutena are arguable
Composite Link, with access to equipment and items from all of his games. Chateau Romani gives 3 days of unlimited magic, which means he can use Magic Cape (makes him intangible and invulnerable) defensively while spamming his ice/fire rods and medallions. Also has 250k rupees to power his magic suit in the rare event his 3 days of magic depletes or if he wants to be more offensive (he can't use other magic items while using magic cape)

Lacks as much offense, as composite Link, and chataeu romani, but still has magic armor plus 250k rupees, which should let him outstall even Kirby.

Hypernova defeats him just because he's small enough to get sucked up, not to mention that the magic armor takes up magic not rupees. In the remake it takes both.

multiple guards that grant near or total invincibility, the warp star moves at high speeds, hypernova swallows almost anything (albeit is a one time use skill), and has a variety of projectiles.

Hypernova can be used an infinite number of times actually. Galaxia Kirby (though I'm not sure he should get it) has holy weaponry in the form of Galaxia.
Access to all the powers (albeit with limited uses) from Uprising, the various light powers her staff provides, flight and the Palutena's Bow.

Can summon Lumas that turn into stars or black holes. Also has a near-impenetrable shield. Has access to one of every power-up from Super Mario 3D world.

Can't be killed by non-holy attacks, although he can be sealed/trapped in other dimension. As far as I know Kirby lacks holy attacks, but Palutena (being a god) and Rosalina (trap him in a black hole) have the edge over Ganondorf but not Kirby, thus Ganon being placed below someone he can beat. Ganondorf can turn invisible and intangible temporarily, fire magical balls, and wield 2 swords at once. As Ganon he can do the above except also wield a trident which shoots out lightning. Only thing Ganon can't do that Ganondorf can is float.

Ganon can teleport out of the black hole, so (eventually) he'd defeat Rosalina.


-Give Mewtwo the edge over Ness because although Ness can fully recover all HP for a tiny fraction of his total PP, and has a shield which halves damage while reflecting some, I believe Mewtwo can out last him by peppering him with his variety of specials. Mewtwo can put up a light screen (raises defense by 100%) and than copy either Ness's shield or healing move and out last him.

Tier B:

Can switch classes during battle to fit best situation. Best offense in general though is as a sorceror, where Aversa's Night guarantees she recovers health = 50% of damaged deal with each attack; the skill sol guarantees she gets 100% every other attack. Vantage (when she's under 50% health) acts like visions. Armsthrift makes her not need to worry about durability. Can change into a flier for evasion while attacking from up high with attacks. Changing into a general makes him a stone wall.
Tier C


w/vehicles. Barrel Roll can block even lasers. Below 64. Mario Bros because between their various invincibility granting items plus using Barry to reflect lasers, I think they could probably win. Unsure though.
Double team makes illusions that can boost his evasion by 300%, and going off the anime, these illusions can appear to attack. Then Charizard attacks with an AOE attack to catch MK from flying around too much. Flight gives it edge over other Pokemon.



Her parasol blocks almost any attack, she has access to Pixls that make untouchable and can reflect any attack, plus a bomb and hammer pixl, not to mention her power-ups fro 3D world.
immune to all non-projectiles attacks except from manaketes (dragons)
Visions are powerful but don't change his lack of a projectile.


I feel as MK's size and quick flying speed makes him hard to keep track of and gives him the ability to just fly around these 2 FE characters It'd be like trying to bat a giant fly with an 8 inch sword.
That his clown car can fly, plus has an indefinite amount of bombs, and he can breathe fire gives him edge over apes and most below him.

Yes his car is fast and but as far as I'm aware all it can do is ram into people, and he can't go too fast since the arena is only 10miles by 10 miles and he wouldn't want to crash into a wall...


Tier D

Lack of projectiles puts him below the apes.



Tier F:

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Yes, but when Kirby fights them, they are only about as tall as he is. Even at the size in that image, they're still tiny in comparison to a real-world star.

Doesn't matter, the sun still generates an amount of solar energy equal to the energy of the real sun, powerful enough to make it daytime. And Kirby gets near it. He can take the sun's blast, as well.

Stone Kirby is affected by gravity. Black holes attract things using gravity. This isn't a wind suction like Kirby's Inhale; it's creating gravity to change the direction that an object falls, and making that object fall very, very quickly.

No, Stone Kirby isn't affected by black holes. Marx creates black holes in his boss fight, and they don't suck up Kirby in stone form, not even when he's falling. Game > real life.

Because?

Because Kirby can make Invincible Rosalina explode.

When is it said that Kirby ran that quickly? If Kirby destroys the Luma by ramming into it with the Warp Star, guess what? That Luma turns into a star and engulfs Kirby.

When is it said that Rosalina can make forcefields? It isn't, we've seen her do it. Likewise, we've seen Kirby run fast enough to dodge lightning. And Kirby would be immune to the star, as seen above.

I'd imagine that being transmutated into an inanimate object would cause the victim to die, no?

It would cause a star to die. A Luma becoming a star wouldn't take effect, because it isn't a Luma anymore.

To do what exactly? Ramming wouldn't quite work out for Kirby for reasons mentioned above.

• And being exploded on also causes Rosalina to explode.
• They are if Rosalina is in her small form (which appears to be the state of the enemy that Kirby uses Baton on, using Kirby's height of eight inches for scale).
• Neither is the Baton explosion.

• No, the fire from the explosion goes to Rosalina and hits her.
• That isn't an OHKO, because it took another hit to reduce Rosalina to her small form. Bob-ombs just get rid of one health unit, which happens to be Rosalina's last. Lava and the baton explosion would get rid of all the health units at once.
  
• Bob-ombs aren't as deadly as lava. The baton explosion is. Doesn't mean it's as hot, but still.

How? If a Luma turns into a star, there's literally no room to run in a ten-mile-wide arena.

He wouldn't have to run, because the heat wouldn't kill him.

And if Kirby kills a Luma, it turns into a star and engulfs him (also, if Kirby got off of his Warp Star and used it to attack, he would be slow again). What makes you say that force fields and teleportation require hand movements?

62 mph is not slow.

Seeing lightning bolts and seeing them move are two different things. In real life, lightning just appears. In Kirby, lightning can be seen moving. The difference between Sonic and the lightning bolts is that Sonic has lore backing up his speed, while the lightning bolts don't. Whether or not it's meant to make things visible to the viewer, until we have lore saying that the lightning bolts move that quickly, they only move at the speeds at which we see them moving.

We don't have anything confirming the speed of the bolts, so we can apply real-life science for their speed. When you look at a lightning bolt, you see it appear instantly, then slowly fade away. That's what Kracko's bolts (such as at 5:21) are doing, except they take a shorter time to fade.

Wisps are power-ups. Alvis is a character who can act on his own and do things separate from Shulk.

And Alvis is equipment. The Wisps can separate and do their own thing as well.
"Each Wisp has the natural ability to generate and store Hyper-go-on, an extremely powerful energy source inside their own bodies, which is their life source. Each type of Wisp generates it own unique version of this energy, with each variant having its own effects. When combining their collective Hyper-go-on, the Wisps are capable of unbelievable feats, such as carrying objects through levitation, move at nearly unreachable speeds, undo the mutation on Nega-Wisps, restrain and extinguish black holes made from negative Hyper-go-on, and even teleport planet-sized objects."
Nothing mentioned there about Sonic having to use them in order for them to function.

Correct, but there aren't really any rules like that in space (not to mention that the Star Bits don't seem to belong to anyone in particular before they're collected). Just because you've been somewhere doesn't mean that you have authority there; I could visit, say, Spain for a weekend, but I'm not a Spanish citizen. Mario isn't present here, but Rosalina is.

America and the space of the Mario universe are both locations with rulers. American-made items in stores don't belong to anyone before they're bought. I don't have authority in America, yet I have the right to own a bed that Obama can't get his hands on unless he comes and takes it. And that last sentence just enhances my argument. Mario and the Lumas are the only ones that have been seen with the Star Bits. Lumas get them because they are fed them, and Mario collects them in locations he visits. Rosalina would have to go collect Star Bits, which she can't do because she's busy fighting a pink puffball.

Except Link has some Magic before he uses Chateau Romani. First, he equips the Magic Armor (to be clear, I'm referring to the Wind Waker version, which creates a force field and uses Magic instead of Rupees). Then, he drinks the Chateau Romani while he's protected to prolong his Magic Meter. Then he just whittles down Mewtwo until he wins.

Magic Armor has only appeared in two games. It creates the forcefield in half its appearances, and half isn't the majority. If anything, the time it doesn't create a forcefield is where Link isn't Toon Link, so that would probably equal 51%, while the forcefield (and the magic meter instead of Rupees) equals 49%. But regardless, the armor wouldn't stop Mewtwo from controlling Link.

 

[blue_flavored]

BTW have you beaten Earthbound? Wondering because I remember hearing after beating his evil self that Ness gained the power to create anything with his mind, just wondering if you remember anything about that

I unfortunately have not . Being someone who mains Ness I feel an obligation to play and finish Earthbound, however I want to play it on the SNES and not an emulator so I'm still searching for the game. I'll give my imput when I finish the game.

 

[Crystanium]

Kirby takes down the sun and moon of his universe. Note how he doesn't take damage when he gets close to the sun.

Mr. Shine and Mr. Bright resemble the Sun and Moon. They aren't the Sun and Moon. You'll notice the size difference in Milky Way Wishes. If that were the actual Moon, it would be full. That's not the case. The Sun and Moon don't speak, either, so the characteristics aren't the same as the actual Sun and Moon. Finally, notice that nothing on Pop Star is taking damage. With the amount of heat the Sun produces, everything on Pop Star would have burst into flames. Clearly, the Kirby series ignores the fundamental laws of physics.

62 miles per second seems pretty fast to me. And if he is on the side of, or above, a black hole, it won't suck him in.

If he's in the event horizon, he's not escaping. Not that I think Rosalina's black holes are anything like real black holes.

The effect of the black hole would be neutralized when it's in Kirby's stomach. When Kirby inhaled Sectonia's blast, it didn't hurt him in any way.

Prove that Sectonia's blast is even close to the damage that could be wrought by a black hole.

But she's not invulnerable. Starmen don't protect her from lava, which is only deadly because of its extreme heat. Explosion is a heat attack. Also, the Starman doesn't protect her from one-shot attacks.

How hot is Crash?

Kirby could hold onto the Warp Star to prevent from getting sucked in. And when would Rosie even touch Kirby? The controlling beam is fired from afar. He would use his telekinetic control over Rosalina to swat the Lumas.

Since when were vehicles allowed? Since when was Kirby psychic?

I don't know the exact point, but it's somewhere in there. Kirby and Tiff run from several of Kracko's lightning bolts, while everyone else is struck by them.

Kirby would still be shocked by the electricity traveling along the ground, so lightning isn't behaving as it should, either.

It's called PIS (plot-induced stupidity). If they made it so Bowser could instantly kill you, the game would literally be unbeatable. Likewise, if Sonic ever used his time manipulation in the Sonic games, they would be way too easy and nobody would play them.

Prove it.

Also, is anyone heavily supporting Link being able to beat Mewtwo? I'd argue otherwise, the psychic could use Trick or TK to steal all of Link's strongest items, leaving him with pretty much nothing.

That's what you would do if you were Mewtwo. Mewtwo has a personality of its own. I'm sure psychic would suffice, though, considering it's always seen as throwing one's opponent around.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

@Dryn You're doing it again. I'm just going to ignore that post because you're asking me things that we've already discussed, and telling me to prove what already has proof.

@ Munomario777
UFO Kirby would come in handy in this fight because:

• He's immune to gravity, thus immune to black holes.
• He fires lasers, including the charged laser that would count as three shots.
• Rosalina's crown is metal, so the beam attack would create two sparks that travel through it to Rosalina.

And also, the events of Paper Mario happened thirteen or fourteen years ago. I'm pretty sure the Star Rod's charged by now.

 

[Munomario777]

Doesn't matter, the sun still generates an amount of solar energy equal to the energy of the real sun, powerful enough to make it daytime. And Kirby gets near it. He can take the sun's blast, as well.

Dryn said it best.

No, Stone Kirby isn't affected by black holes. Marx creates black holes in his boss fight, and they don't suck up Kirby in stone form, not even when he's falling. Game > real life.

Marx's black hole =/= Rosalina's black hole. Marx's is much smaller (so it likely has less of a gravitational pull, thus preventing it from pulling in Stone Kirby), especially when using Kirby's height of eight inches as a reference point.

When is it said that Rosalina can make forcefields? It isn't, we've seen her do it. Likewise, we've seen Kirby run fast enough to dodge lightning. And Kirby would be immune to the star, as seen above.

A snail can dodge lightning, depending on where it strikes. If it strikes behind the snail while it is moving forwards, the snail just dodged lightning. "Fast enough to dodge lightning" doesn't mean much.

It would cause a star to die. A Luma becoming a star wouldn't take effect, because it isn't a Luma anymore.

Meh. Since we don't see what goes on when Kirby inhales an enemy, there's really no way to determine this.

• No, the fire from the explosion goes to Rosalina and hits her.
• That isn't an OHKO, because it took another hit to reduce Rosalina to her small form. Bob-ombs just get rid of one health unit, which happens to be Rosalina's last. Lava and the baton explosion would get rid of all the health units at once.
  
• Bob-ombs aren't as deadly as lava. The baton explosion is. Doesn't mean it's as hot, but still.

• And fire does not harm a Starman user. Explosions are based on shockwaves; the fireball is optional. Rosalina is shown to resist shockwaves every time a POW Block is used; it visibly emits shock waves that damage brick blocks, but not her (and that's even without a Starman).
• A Bob-Omb kills a small character in one hit. The Baton kills an even smaller enemy in one hit.
• As proven by?

62 mph is not slow.[/quote]
When the heck did Kirby ever run at 62 miles per hour?

We don't have anything confirming the speed of the bolts, so we can apply real-life science for their speed. When you look at a lightning bolt, you see it appear instantly, then slowly fade away. That's what Kracko's bolts (such as at 5:21) are doing, except they take a shorter time to fade.

Except we do, in the form of gameplay and anime. In gameplay, the attacks are telegraphed, so this is a measure of Kirby's common sense, not his speed/reaction time. In the anime, we can see them moving in a 30fps video. Real lightning bolts cannot be seen moving in real life (at a much higher "framerate"); they just appear and fade away. These lightning bolts are not moving at real-life lightning bolt speeds. Gameplay > other media > real life.

And Alvis is equipment. The Wisps can separate and do their own thing as well.

You seem to have stopped providing evidence to your claim of Alvis being equipment. Thus, I will ignore it.

"Each Wisp has the natural ability to generate and store Hyper-go-on, an extremely powerful energy source inside their own bodies, which is their life source. Each type of Wisp generates it own unique version of this energy, with each variant having its own effects. When combining their collective Hyper-go-on, the Wisps are capable of unbelievable feats, such as carrying objects through levitation, move at nearly unreachable speeds, undo the mutation on Nega-Wisps, restrain and extinguish black holes made from negative Hyper-go-on, and even teleport planet-sized objects."
Nothing mentioned there about Sonic having to use them in order for them to function.

Wisps are like batteries. They have some great power inside of them, but Sonic must access this power to make use of it. I don't recall them carrying anything telekinetically, nor do I remember them reaching high speeds without being used by Sonic. The others are only when the entire Wisp race combines together, while Sonic would only have access to one of each color.

America and the space of the Mario universe are both locations with rulers. American-made items in stores don't belong to anyone before they're bought. I don't have authority in America, yet I have the right to own a bed that Obama can't get his hands on unless he comes and takes it. And that last sentence just enhances my argument. Mario and the Lumas are the only ones that have been seen with the Star Bits. Lumas get them because they are fed them, and Mario collects them in locations he visits. Rosalina would have to go collect Star Bits, which she can't do because she's busy fighting a pink puffball.

American-made items do belong to someone before they're bought; they belong to the manufacturer at first. Then the store buys the stock, and then the consumer buys the product from the store. The bed belongs to you. The Star Bits don't belong to anyone (they could be compared to flowers in a field). Remember, we're taking the best situation for the character here. Rosalina already collected the Star Bits prior to the fight, just like Kirby collected all of his Copy Essence Deluxes.

Magic Armor has only appeared in two games. It creates the forcefield in half its appearances, and half isn't the majority. If anything, the time it doesn't create a forcefield is where Link isn't Toon Link, so that would probably equal 51%, while the forcefield (and the magic meter instead of Rupees) equals 49%. But regardless, the armor wouldn't stop Mewtwo from controlling Link.

The Magic Armor from Twilight Princess and the Magic Armor from Wind Waker are two different items. One is a force field, the other is a suit of armor. One uses Magic, the other uses Rupees. One protects the entire body, the other doesn't. One looks like a red jewel, the other looks like an actual suit of armor. Link can choose between whichever one he pleases in this discussion. Why wouldn't the armor (which functions like Protect, which blocks Mewtwo's attacks) protect him from mind control?

Also, the force field version appeared in two games: Wind Waker and its remake. Why does a game having the toon art style make it less of a game?

@Dryn You're doing it again. I'm just going to ignore that post because you're asking me things that we've already discussed, and telling me to prove what already has proof.

Really? I don't remember you giving any proof for the sun and moon case, the power of Sectonia's blast being comparable to a black hole, and some of the other things he asked you.

@ Munomario777
UFO Kirby would come in handy in this fight because:

• He's immune to gravity, thus immune to black holes.
• He fires lasers, including the charged laser that would count as three shots.
• Rosalina's crown is metal, so the beam attack would create two sparks that travel through it to Rosalina.

• Okay, I guess Rosalina will just have to use a star then.
• ...Which a Starman or other invincibility item would negate.
• ...Which a Starman or other invincibility item would negate.

And also, the events of Paper Mario happened thirteen or fourteen years ago. I'm pretty sure the Star Rod's charged by now.

No, that's not how it works. You can't leave a lamp plugged in for a year and expect it to stay on when you unplug it; without a steady source of power, it won't work. Not to mention that the Star Rod was in Star Haven for who-knows-how-long before the events of Paper Mario, and it didn't have very much power when Bowser used it in that game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's been a while since I ventured here.........mind if I see the bracket?

 

[Munomario777]

It's been a while since I ventured here.........mind if I see the bracket?

Sure thing! Here's a link to the post. Any matchup with a letter instead of a winner is an open matchup, which anyone is free to do an analysis for! Right now, we're in the second round of the losers' bracket.

 

[Crystanium]

@Dryn You're doing it again. I'm just going to ignore that post because you're asking me things that we've already discussed, and telling me to prove what already has proof.

Maybe you replied to Munomario777, but not me. Does no one in this thread know how to debate?

UFO Kirby would come in handy in this fight because:

• He's immune to gravity, thus immune to black holes.
• He fires lasers, including the charged laser that would count as three shots.
• Rosalina's crown is metal, so the beam attack would create two sparks that travel through it to Rosalina.

And also, the events of Paper Mario happened thirteen or fourteen years ago. I'm pretty sure the Star Rod's charged by now.

• How many gees can UFO Kirby survive? Let's not pull another extrapolation here. I really hope you don't.
• Those lasers don't behave like actual lasers, considering they bounce off angled walls.
• I don't understand the logic behind this.

Okay, I guess Rosalina will just have to use a star then.

A star, as in a starman? Otherwise, when a star dies and becomes a black hole, the black hole has the same gravitational acceleration as it did when it was a star. If the gravity of the black holes made by Rosalina are the same as the stars she makes, then using a star will make no difference. Since we cannot quantify the star, we cannot know it's gravitational acceleration. Well, maybe we could, but no one star is the same.

No, that's not how it works. You can't leave a lamp plugged in for a year and expect it to stay on when you unplug it; without a steady source of power, it won't work. Not to mention that the Star Rod was in Star Haven for who-knows-how-long before the events of Paper Mario, and it didn't have very much power when Bowser used it in that game.

That's how you do it.

 

[Munomario777]

A star, as in a starman? Otherwise, when a star dies and becomes a black hole, the black hole has the same gravitational acceleration as it did when it was a star. If the gravity of the black holes made by Rosalina are the same as the stars she makes, then using a star will make no difference. Since we cannot quantify the star, we cannot know it's gravitational acceleration. Well, maybe we could, but no one star is the same.

No, as in a star, the celestial being. I didn't mean for the gravitational pull; Rosalina would use it to engulf UFO Kirby, and the temperatures and such would take him out.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

I'm irritated my post deleted and I have to restart....anyway

I agree that if it was only Alvis saying "I am Monado" instead of "I am the Monado", it wouldn't mean anything. However, when you combine this with this quote from the Xenoblade Wiki:

"I am Monado" seems to support this explanation.

While I still disagree, I've come to the conclusion that Alvis is a separate enough entity to not allow Shulk to make the request to reset the world. That being said, if we're using peak Shulk than he is a god (not that it really matters outside of him having the Monado III.)

• Light Arrow: Glad we're on the same page.
• The Star Beam is powered by seven powerful, magical stars. The Chaos Emeralds are seven powerful, magical gemstones. Seems plausible enough to me. Not to mention the Master Emerald and all.
• Mega Laser: True.
• Psychic attacks: Well, it looks like the Star Rod has only affected the outside of Bowser. I'll get into what the Star Rod would and wouldn't be able to do for Bowser in a minute.
• Powerful attacks: Hmm, true.

• Super Sonic: LIke I said before, the Star Beam doesn't just pierce his invincibility, it drains it, but as long as he stays in Super Sonic form it's irrelevant since we agree Super Sonic can pierce his invincibility.
• Psychic: Yes, but what I'm saying is there is no reason he couldn't ask for invulnerability to psychic attacks in addition to invincibility.

Yes, he could, but I don't think Bowser could quite wish for anything he wants, at least not in this sort of scenario. Let me explain: Throughout the two battles with Mario, Bowser had a wish-granting Star Rod, which can grant any wish. Why not just wish that Mario is dead?

Twofold:

• He wanted to physically beat Mario up as revenge for all the year's Mario has gotten in his way. I'm sure you've seen movies/video games where the villain easily could have killed the hero but didn't (TV tropes calls it Bond Villain Stupidity and Why Don't You Just Shoot Him.) Instead, Bowser just wishes for invincibility so he can beat Mario the traditional way.
• Plot armor. Why didn't Bowser just wish for Mario dead on the power platform (when it was powered up) in the time when he couldn't be affected by the star beam? Plot taking precedence over logic and gameplay.

In fact, there are a multitude of things Bowser could have wished for to make the fight easier, but he didn't. Why? Well, we see that the Star Rod's abilities are enhanced if it has more power; the Power Platform enhances the Star Rod's attacks, defense, and healing, after all. Thus, a likely explanation is that the Star Rod can grant any wish, if it has enough power to draw from. Without any external power, Bowser can use the Star Rod to:

• Create a shockwave attack
• Form a protective barrier that can only be negated by attacks like the Star Rod
• Heal himself for two-fifths of his maximum health

Since Bowser doesn't have any power source to hook the Star Rod up to, its abilities are relatively limited. However, with a large enough power source (which the Star Haven could very well have), it could do amazing things, such as granting any wish imaginable.

If he could make any wish, the game would be unwinnable. Similar example: In a Link to the Past, Agahnim has three attacks but only one can be reflected back at him. If he never used it, Link couldn't have won since Agahnim was otherwise invulnerable to Link's attacks. And unlike some bosses (i.e. animals) he's smart enough to know better.
Also another reason he doesn't wish for more things is because he's content with having killed Mario (so he thought), being out of reach of Mario (after he found out Mario was dead but no longer cared since he still beat him and figured "I'm in outerspace, he can't reach me. Plus [this is an actual quote] he never thought Mario would be able to find all the Star Spirits") and more or less being in charge of the Mushroom Kingdom. He eventually would have wanted more.
Quote from the game from Skolar: "When he found out that we were ignoring his wishes, he came and stole the Star Rod so he could grant his own wishes. He seems content right now, many because he defeated you and captured the princess. Soon enough, though, I fear he will wish for more...and then terrible things will happen."

I also want to point out that only 2 aspects of the Star Rod were boosted, attack power and healing, the latter which is debatable. His magic wave attack goes from 4 to 6 damage (25% increase). As for his healing, it heals more total HP (20 vs 30) but heals less effectively (40% vs 30%). Bowser's HP, attack and defense are all boosted by Kammy's magic/power platform, not the star Rod. The platform also doesn't increase the amount of damage Bowser does while invincible; it remains simply times 2 attack for Bowser for both fights although his invincibility does get resilient.
Additionally, according to your theory about the Star Rod being able to grant more wishes with the power source, he should have gotten at least one new attack/move since you say he should be able to grant more wishes but he doesn't. All it did was somewhat enchance the wishes it was already shown granting.
Finally, I don't think just because the Star Rod is capable of being powered up means it has a limited power supply/abilities. If anything, it's the other way around going off of this quote after saving Mamar: "Who knows how my dear old Star Haven is faring without the Star Rod?"
I'd also like to say the game says many times it can grant any wish without ever putting a caveat.

Unlimited ammo on many of her weapons, can can turn into a invincible, supersonic moving when she needs to go on defense (takes 1 second of running to activate.) Should be lower, she can't change directions after activating the Shinespark and gets easily defeated by Ness, Mewtwo, Kirby, and Ganondorf. Pit and Palutena are arguable
I didn't play other M, but Samus can't change directions swiftly while running in Metroid games but she can run run straight. It should be possible to run straight while turning gradually. Also, it only has a one second start up, so she can always stop to turn then restart it.
I'd also say it's arguable whether she beats Kirby, Mewtwo, Ness or Kirby, but I'll admit I had trouble placing Samus without having time to really delve into the match-ups. I put her over Ness and Mewtwo because Wave Beam should pierce there respective shields and they won't be able to hit her while she has speed Boost activated.

Hypernova defeats him just because he's small enough to get sucked up, not to mention that the magic armor takes up magic not rupees. In the remake it takes both.
I'm referring to the Magic Armor from the remake, which only runs on Rupees and only when he gets hit.

multiple guards that grant near or total invincibility, the warp star moves at high speeds, hypernova swallows almost anything (albeit is a one time use skill), and has a variety of projectiles.​

Hypernova can be used an infinite number of times actually. Galaxia Kirby (though I'm not sure he should get it) has holy weaponry in the form of Galaxia.
Yes but he can't use any powers while it's active and once he uses it, it's gone for good a la Crash and Mike. And I'd say no to Galaxia but even if we agreed, what proof have you that it's holy?
Ganon can teleport out of the black hole, so (eventually) he'd defeat Rosalina.
when has he ever teleported? Not saying you're wrong btw.

As long as the beam is made of some sort of electromagnetic energy, then it will pierce the shield. If it's a mechanical wave than it should pierce the shield
This is the speed of Rosalina's teleport, and we don't even see how slow the reentry is. The warp star (according to memory, I'll keep searching for gameplay) takes only 4-5 seconds to call in. No biggie, especially when you can just guard until it arrives (after initially calling it)

But you're just speculating that it could be either one of those. For all we know, it could be made out of the same energy as beam kirby's attacks.

And that video on Rosalina just proved my point, it took exactly 5 seconds.
FYI, in Crystal Shards it took 6 seconds to reach Kirby.

Also @ Kirby Dragons and @Dryn :
Since Link would be invincible with Magic Armor, Psychic wouldn't actually hurt him, it would just be moving him around. Alternatively, he can use Magic Cape so that he can't be touched by Psychic.
And Trick only swaps items (technically 1), so he could only take one item from Link. Since Mewtwo can only hold 1 item, he's not able to take more than one item.

I unfortunately have not . Being someone who mains Ness I feel an obligation to play and finish Earthbound, however I want to play it on the SNES and not an emulator so I'm still searching for the game. I'll give my imput when I finish the game.

If you have a Wii U, it's available on the Virtual Console.

 

[Munomario777]

I'm irritated my post deleted and I have to restart....anyway

Oh, I hate when that happens.

While I still disagree, I've come to the conclusion that Alvis is a separate enough entity to not allow Shulk to make the request to reset the world. That being said, if we're using peak Shulk than he is a god (not that it really matters outside of him having the Monado III.)

Since our disagreement doesn't really affect the topic at hand, I'll agree to end the disussion.

• Super Sonic: LIke I said before, the Star Beam doesn't just pierce his invincibility, it drains it, but as long as he stays in Super Sonic form it's irrelevant since we agree Super Sonic can pierce his invincibility.
• Psychic: Yes, but what I'm saying is there is no reason he couldn't ask for invulnerability to psychic attacks in addition to invincibility.

• Super Sonic: Very true.
• Psychic: Unless we go with the theory that I'm about to address.

Twofold:

• He wanted to physically beat Mario up as revenge for all the year's Mario has gotten in his way. I'm sure you've seen movies/video games where the villain easily could have killed the hero but didn't (TV tropes calls it Bond Villain Stupidity and Why Don't You Just Shoot Him.) Instead, Bowser just wishes for invincibility so he can beat Mario the traditional way.
• Plot armor. Why didn't Bowser just wish for Mario dead on the power platform (when it was powered up) in the time when he couldn't be affected by the star beam? Plot taking precedence over logic and gameplay.

• If he really wanted to cause Mario pain, then he could have wished for a torture device, or a giant sword, or something to aid him in killing Mario "the traditional way".
• Because the Power Platform doesn't necessarily provide maximum power.

If he could make any wish, the game would be unwinnable. Similar example: In a Link to the Past, Agahnim has three attacks but only one can be reflected back at him. If he never used it, Link couldn't have won since Agahnim was otherwise invulnerable to Link's attacks. And unlike some bosses (i.e. animals) he's smart enough to know better.

Yes, this is a phenomenon that happens often in games. However, if there's evidence that it could be tied to plot and such, we shouldn't just assume it to be gameplay-story segregation.

Also another reason he doesn't wish for more things is because he's content with having killed Mario (so he thought), being out of reach of Mario (after he found out Mario was dead but no longer cared since he still beat him and figured "I'm in outerspace, he can't reach me. Plus [this is an actual quote] he never thought Mario would be able to find all the Star Spirits") and more or less being in charge of the Mushroom Kingdom. He eventually would have wanted more.

While Bowser may have thought he'd defeated Mario, once he showed up, don't you think he would have done something with his magical, wish-granting Star Rod to help out?

Quote from the game from Skolar: "When he found out that we were ignoring his wishes, he came and stole the Star Rod so he could grant his own wishes. He seems content right now, many because he defeated you and captured the princess. Soon enough, though, I fear he will wish for more...and then terrible things will happen."

And he did wish for more (the buffs via the Power Platform), and if it weren't for Peach and Twink's efforts, terrible things would have happened (the Peach Beam wouldn't be formed, and Bowser wouldn't be defeated, and he would rule the world and such).

I also want to point out that only 2 aspects of the Star Rod were boosted, attack power and healing, the latter which is debatable. His magic wave attack goes from 4 to 6 damage (25% increase). As for his healing, it heals more total HP (20 vs 30) but heals less effectively (40% vs 30%). Bowser's HP, attack and defense are all boosted by Kammy's magic/power platform, not the star Rod. The platform also doesn't increase the amount of damage Bowser does while invincible; it remains simply times 2 attack for Bowser for both fights although his invincibility does get resilient.

Actually, the invincibility was boosted as well. Pre-Power Platform, the normal Star Beam could negate the invincibility. Post-Power Platform (yay alliterations!), the Star Beam wasn't enough, and the more powerful Peach Beam had to be used. Using an online guide (I haven't played Paper Mario myself), all of the techniques involving the Star Rod (Star Rod Shockwave, Star Rod Shield, and Star Rod Heal) are all boosted in effectiveness.

Additionally, according to your theory about the Star Rod being able to grant more wishes with the power source, he should have gotten at least one new attack/move since you say he should be able to grant more wishes but he doesn't. All it did was somewhat enchance the wishes it was already shown granting.

Actually, he gains the "Star Rod Bolt" attack.

Finally, I don't think just because the Star Rod is capable of being powered up means it has a limited power supply/abilities. If anything, it's the other way around going off of this quote after saving Mamar: "Who knows how my dear old Star Haven is faring without the Star Rod?"

Star Haven would definitely benefit from having the Star Rod's ability to grant wishes (with the power source that presumably resides in Star Haven), and if that society had grown accustomed to that power, having it taken away would be the equivalent of an EMP covering the entire earth (thus deactivating all electronic devices); devastating.

I'd also like to say the game says many times it can grant any wish without ever putting a caveat.

Oh, but it does; it just doesn't directly state it.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Dryn said it best.

Well, in that case, Rosalina isn't immune to stars either. If that star she stood next to was a real star, the Comet Observatory would've burned.

Marx's black hole =/= Rosalina's black hole. Marx's is much smaller (so it likely has less of a gravitational pull, thus preventing it from pulling in Stone Kirby), especially when using Kirby's height of eight inches as a reference point.

The first sentence is right, Marx's black hole doesn't equal Rosalina's black hole. It's bigger. It's got a lot of range, and is very hard to avoid, and is also very powerful.

A snail can dodge lightning, depending on where it strikes. If it strikes behind the snail while it is moving forwards, the snail just dodged lightning. "Fast enough to dodge lightning" doesn't mean much.

And the lightning bolts were chasing Kirby. They were traveling horizontally towards him, not vertically behind him.

• And fire does not harm a Starman user. Explosions are based on shockwaves; the fireball is optional. Rosalina is shown to resist shockwaves every time a POW Block is used; it visibly emits shock waves that damage brick blocks, but not her (and that's even without a Starman).
• A Bob-Omb kills a small character in one hit. The Baton kills an even smaller enemy in one hit.
• As proven by?

• That depends on the fire. If the fire was a one-shot attack (which Bob-ombs aren't), the Starman wouldn't protect the user. And explosions are based on fire.
• The character was small because of a previous hit. The baton one-shotted someone, when there was no harm done to them beforehand. There is nothing showing Baton Kirby doesn't work on larger enemies.
• Lava being able to harm Invincible Rosalina, while Bob-ombs can't. If a Bob-omb was used on regular Rosalina, it would reduce her health. If the explosion was used on regular Rosalina, it would deplete her health.

When the heck did Kirby ever run at 62 miles per hour?

I keep mixing up hours, minutes, and seconds. And Kirby can run from a quick lightning bolt that travels toward him. The speed of that bolt is probably at least 55 miles per second, if not more.

Except we do, in the form of gameplay and anime. In gameplay, the attacks are telegraphed, so this is a measure of Kirby's common sense, not his speed/reaction time. In the anime, we can see them moving in a 30fps video. Real lightning bolts cannot be seen moving in real life (at a much higher "framerate"); they just appear and fade away. These lightning bolts are not moving at real-life lightning bolt speeds. Gameplay > other media > real life.

Common sense and speed/reaction time wouldn't contradict each other, so we could leave games out of this. Some of the bolts were faster than others. The bolts Tiff was running from did exactly what you said, they appeared and faded away. The bolts Tiff and Kirby were running from were slower, but not by much. So 55 miles per hour sounds good.

You seem to have stopped providing evidence to your claim of Alvis being equipment. Thus, I will ignore it.

And Shadow kept going with this, while you didn't. Since the debate is over and Shulk getting the Monado has more votes, that means he gets it.

American-made items do belong to someone before they're bought; they belong to the manufacturer at first. Then the store buys the stock, and then the consumer buys the product from the store. The bed belongs to you. The Star Bits don't belong to anyone (they could be compared to flowers in a field). Remember, we're taking the best situation for the character here. Rosalina already collected the Star Bits prior to the fight, just like Kirby collected all of his Copy Essence Deluxes.

Kirby collecting Copy Essence Deluxes is something he's actually been seen doing. Rosalina has canonically never been seen with Star Bits. Mario went around and collected them, and then the Lumas ate them, so it's not like Rosalina could ever get her hands on any.

The Magic Armor from Twilight Princess and the Magic Armor from Wind Waker are two different items. One is a force field, the other is a suit of armor. One uses Magic, the other uses Rupees. One protects the entire body, the other doesn't. One looks like a red jewel, the other looks like an actual suit of armor. Link can choose between whichever one he pleases in this discussion. Why wouldn't the armor (which functions like Protect, which blocks Mewtwo's attacks) protect him from mind control?

Because mind control isn't an attack. Magic Armor protects Link from damage, but mind controlling wouldn't actually do any damage. We've never seen Mewtwo's mind controlling be used on Protect, so the best way to determine this would be to ask if the barrier blocks off things that aren't damage. It doesn't, so Link's mind is open.

Also, the force field version appeared in two games: Wind Waker and its remake. Why does a game having the toon art style make it less of a game?

Okay then, but I'd say that if non-Toon Link and Toon Link contradict each other equally, then non-Toon Link should be used, as that is who this Link looks like, and Toon Link is someone else we're evaluating.

Really? I don't remember you giving any proof for the sun and moon case, the power of Sectonia's blast being comparable to a black hole, and some of the other things he asked you.

• Okay, I guess Rosalina will just have to use a star then.
• ...Which a Starman or other invincibility item would negate.
• ...Which a Starman or other invincibility item would negate.

See above for the sun and the moon.

The Starman only lasts ten seconds, so he just needs to wait till it's over. If Rosalina tries to feed the Lumas, Kirby can use lasers or his beam to destroy the Star Bits. There won't be any Star Bits anyways. The only stars that will be here are if Kirby destroys a Luma. Since neither combatant is immune to the heat, they would both die, but since Kirby caused the star and it killed his opponent, he wins.

Since Link would be invincible with Magic Armor, Psychic wouldn't actually hurt him, it would just be moving him around. Alternatively, he can use Magic Cape so that he can't be touched by Psychic.
And Trick only swaps items (technically 1), so he could only take one item from Link. Since Mewtwo can only hold 1 item, he's not able to take more than one item.

Mewtwo wouldn't be using Psychic, he'd be using mind control. And Trick can be used multiple times, so Mewtwo could take multiple items. The one item is a game mechanic. Mewtwo has two hands, so he can hold up to two at a time. The cape requires a high amount of magic, which Link wouldn't have because Mewtwo took the Chateau Romani. Logically, he could use either the cape or the armor (I haven't played much of a Zelda game, so I don't know if he could use both or not).

• Those lasers don't behave like actual lasers, considering they bounce off angled walls.

UFO Kirby has modified lasers, but they're still lasers, and they're made of light. Regardless, charged lasers don't bounce.

Maybe you replied to Munomario777, but not me. Does no one in this thread know how to debate?

That's exactly what I'm saying about you. You aren't really debating, you're just trying to debunk everything I say.

But you're just speculating that it could be either one of those. For all we know, it could be made out of the same energy as beam kirby's attacks.

I agree that Baton Kirby's laser isn't made of light and wouldn't pass through the forcefield. But if Rosalina gets hit by it, she dies.

 

[Munomario777]

Well, in that case, Rosalina isn't immune to stars either. If that star she stood next to was a real star, the Comet Observatory would've burned.

Fair enough, but the Starman and other invincibility items would still help (or she could just leave a spot open for herself in the corner).

The first sentence is right, Marx's black hole doesn't equal Rosalina's black hole. It's bigger. It's got a lot of range, and is very hard to avoid, and is also very powerful.

How is this bigger than this? Even if Mario and Kirby were the same size (which they're obviously not), the black holes from Galaxy still dwarf the one found in Marx's boss fight. Marx's black hole causes Kirby to take a bit of damage. The ones in Galaxy result in a one-hit kill.

And the lightning bolts were chasing Kirby. They were traveling horizontally towards him, not vertically behind him.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong part of the video, Kirby wasn't outrunning the lightning; he was dodging it by moving side to side.

• That depends on the fire. If the fire was a one-shot attack (which Bob-ombs aren't), the Starman wouldn't protect the user. And explosions are based on fire.
• The character was small because of a previous hit. The baton one-shotted someone, when there was no harm done to them beforehand. There is nothing showing Baton Kirby doesn't work on larger enemies.
• Lava being able to harm Invincible Rosalina, while Bob-ombs can't. If a Bob-omb was used on regular Rosalina, it would reduce her health. If the explosion was used on regular Rosalina, it would deplete her health.

• The Baton explosion is a one-shot attack to small enemies. The Bob-Omb explosion is a one-shot attack to small enemies. If you can prove that Baton Kirby's explosion would one-shot someone as large as Rosalina, I will reconsider.
• And the Kirby enemy was small regardless. The Kirby enemy was much smaller than Rosalina. Let me put it this way. Pokemon A (Kirby) uses Attack A (Baton explosion) on Pokemon B (the enemy in the clip). Attack A one-shots the low-level Pokemon B because it had only 10 HP, while Attack A deals 15 damage. However, when Pokemon A fights Pokemon C (Rosalina), which has 30 HP, it takes two hits to kill Pokemon C. Just because an attack takes out a small enemy in one hit doesn't mean it's a universal OHKO.
• Except Bob-Omb explosion ~=/> Baton explosion, as shown above.

I keep mixing up hours, minutes, and seconds. And Kirby can run from a quick lightning bolt that travels toward him. The speed of that bolt is probably at least 55 miles per second, if not more.

Except Kirby and what's-her-face get caught by the lightning bolt.

Common sense and speed/reaction time wouldn't contradict each other, so we could leave games out of this. Some of the bolts were faster than others. The bolts Tiff was running from did exactly what you said, they appeared and faded away. The bolts Tiff and Kirby were running from were slower, but not by much. So 55 miles per hour sounds good.

Gameplay > other media > real life. Both gameplay and other media contradict real life, so we leave real life out due to its lower position in the hierarchy.

And Shadow kept going with this, while you didn't. Since the debate is over and Shulk getting the Monado has more votes, that means he gets it.

If you hadn't noticed, I've continued this quite a bit more than Shadow did; ctrl+f "Alvis" and see what I mean. Also:

While I still disagree, I've come to the conclusion that Alvis is a separate enough entity to not allow Shulk to make the request to reset the world.

By the way, to clarify, I agree with Shulk getting the Monado (as in, his sword). That said, I don't agree that Alvis would be a part of that.

Kirby collecting Copy Essence Deluxes is something he's actually been seen doing. Rosalina has canonically never been seen with Star Bits. Mario went around and collected them, and then the Lumas ate them, so it's not like Rosalina could ever get her hands on any.

Actually, she has.

Because mind control isn't an attack. Magic Armor protects Link from damage, but mind controlling wouldn't actually do any damage. We've never seen Mewtwo's mind controlling be used on Protect, so the best way to determine this would be to ask if the barrier blocks off things that aren't damage. It doesn't, so Link's mind is open.

If Protect blocks attacks called "Psychic" (the category under which mind control falls) and "Confusion" (which mind control would likely do to an opponent), it's not much of a stretch to say that a psychic mind controlling attack would be blocked by the barrier.

Okay then, but I'd say that if non-Toon Link and Toon Link contradict each other equally, then non-Toon Link should be used, as that is who this Link looks like, and Toon Link is someone else we're evaluating.

I'd say it depends on the case really.

The Starman only lasts ten seconds, so he just needs to wait till it's over. If Rosalina tries to feed the Lumas, Kirby can use lasers or his beam to destroy the Star Bits. There won't be any Star Bits anyways. The only stars that will be here are if Kirby destroys a Luma. Since neither combatant is immune to the heat, they would both die, but since Kirby caused the star and it killed his opponent, he wins.

Yes, but that's ten seconds Rosalina could use to flood the arena with black holes. As I've said before, there can be multiple Lumas firing their own Star Bits at any given time; Kirby could not possibly block a hundred simultaneous Star Bit streams. Since Rosalina is using a Starman (or left some room for herself), she is immune to the star's heat and survives. Kirby dies first, and Rosalina wins.

Mewtwo wouldn't be using Psychic, he'd be using mind control. And Trick can be used multiple times, so Mewtwo could take multiple items. The one item is a game mechanic. Mewtwo has two hands, so he can hold up to two at a time. The cape requires a high amount of magic, which Link wouldn't have because Mewtwo took the Chateau Romani. Logically, he could use either the cape or the armor (I haven't played much of a Zelda game, so I don't know if he could use both or not).

And mind control is a psychic attack. In the games, Trick swaps one item from both combatants. If Mewtwo uses Trick once, he gets one of Link's items. If he uses it again, he gives back the item he took before and gets one of Link's items in return. That's how the move works. Mewtwo wouldn't take the Chateau Romani, because Link already equipped the Magic Armor using his regular Magic supply. Since the Magic Cape and the Magic Armor aren't in the same game, we can't know for sure if both could be equipped, but it seems like they could could (a cape and a forcefield wouldn't interfere with each other as opposed to, say, two pairs of shoes).

UFO Kirby has modified lasers, but they're still lasers, and they're made of light. Regardless, charged lasers don't bounce.

True, but the Starman negates those anyways.

That's exactly what I'm saying about you. You aren't really debating, you're just trying to debunk everything I say.

That's called making a counterargument...

I agree that Baton Kirby's laser isn't made of light and wouldn't pass through the forcefield. But if Rosalina gets hit by it, she dies.

That's a rather big "if". Why would Rosalina not have her shield up (if not an invincibility item)? It wouldn't prevent her from using her good attacks, since the Lumas and their Star Bit firing are unhindered.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

How is this bigger than this? Even if Mario and Kirby were the same size (which they're obviously not), the black holes from Galaxy still dwarf the one found in Marx's boss fight. Marx's black hole causes Kirby to take a bit of damage. The ones in Galaxy result in a one-hit kill.

His newest attack is that he can split himself in two symmetrical halves and reveal his iconic attack - the black hole. Kirby will take extremely heavy damage if he gets sucked into it.
You were saying? The black hole does a lot of damage to Kirby, if he isn't using Stone.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong part of the video, Kirby wasn't outrunning the lightning; he was dodging it by moving side to side.

You are looking at the wrong part. Look more at 6:00, there are horizontal bolts that Kirby runs from.

• The Baton explosion is a one-shot attack to small enemies. The Bob-Omb explosion is a one-shot attack to small enemies. If you can prove that Baton Kirby's explosion would one-shot someone as large as Rosalina, I will reconsider.
• And the Kirby enemy was small regardless. The Kirby enemy was much smaller than Rosalina. Let me put it this way. Pokemon A (Kirby) uses Attack A (Baton explosion) on Pokemon B (the enemy in the clip). Attack A one-shots the low-level Pokemon B because it had only 10 HP, while Attack A deals 15 damage. However, when Pokemon A fights Pokemon C (Rosalina), which has 30 HP, it takes two hits to kill Pokemon C. Just because an attack takes out a small enemy in one hit doesn't mean it's a universal OHKO.
• Except Bob-Omb explosion ~=/> Baton explosion, as shown above.

• Regardless of if Kirby could take control of bigger enemies, he could still blow up Rosalina's smaller intersection, which would cause her to die because the fire reaches her heart.
• The enemy's health and Rosalina's health aren't really comparable in this sense. If you flick the enemy twice, it wouldn't really do anything. If you swing a giant hammer at the enemy, he'd probably be defeated. If you swing a giant hammer at Rosalina, she'd just lose one life.
• I don't know what ~=/> means. It just looks like a firework to me.

Not to mention, when ten seconds are up, Kirby can use Crash or Mike, which would both go through the forcefield and destroy nearby Lumas.

Except Kirby and what's-her-face get caught by the lightning bolt.

Tiff was the one running there, so you can count it against her. Plus, they dodge all the other bolts that chase them, that was just one time.

Gameplay > other media > real life. Both gameplay and other media contradict real life, so we leave real life out due to its lower position in the hierarchy.

I know how it works, but Kracko's untelegraphed attacks aren't in the games, so we can't use them in the lightning bolt discussion.

If you hadn't noticed, I've continued this quite a bit more than Shadow did; ctrl+f "Alvis" and see what I mean. Also:

By the way, to clarify, I agree with Shulk getting the Monado (as in, his sword). That said, I don't agree that Alvis would be a part of that.

Shadow got the last actual word on the debate. All you said was: "Since our disagreement doesn't really affect the topic at hand, I'll agree to end the disussion." Since the debate is over, and Shulk has two votes, that means he gets the Monado (with Shulk).

Actually, she has.

Alright, she gets Star Bits then.

If Protect blocks attacks called "Psychic" (the category under which mind control falls) and "Confusion" (which mind control would likely do to an opponent), it's not much of a stretch to say that a psychic mind controlling attack would be blocked by the barrier.

Mind control doesn't fall under Psychic just because it's psychic. Otherwise, every psychic-type move would fall under the category of Psychic. And again, mind controlling isn't an attack. Confusion confuses an opponent, while mind control makes an opponent do what you tell them to do. There's a difference.

Yes, but that's ten seconds Rosalina could use to flood the arena with black holes. As I've said before, there can be multiple Lumas firing their own Star Bits at any given time; Kirby could not possibly block a hundred simultaneous Star Bit streams. Since Rosalina is using a Starman (or left some room for herself), she is immune to the star's heat and survives. Kirby dies first, and Rosalina wins.

And UFO Kirby is immune to black holes. You are forgetting that Kirby has five lollipops he can use at any time. They can stack, if I'm not mistaken. The lollipop lasts longer than a Starman anyways.

And mind control is a psychic attack. In the games, Trick swaps one item from both combatants. If Mewtwo uses Trick once, he gets one of Link's items. If he uses it again, he gives back the item he took before and gets one of Link's items in return. That's how the move works. Mewtwo wouldn't take the Chateau Romani, because Link already equipped the Magic Armor using his regular Magic supply. Since the Magic Cape and the Magic Armor aren't in the same game, we can't know for sure if both could be equipped, but it seems like they could could (a cape and a forcefield wouldn't interfere with each other as opposed to, say, two pairs of shoes).

Mewtwo could drop the item and put it under his foot so he can get another one, and so that he wouldn't give items back. When I said the cape and armor couldn't be used simultaneously, I meant it was because Link didn't have enough magic for them. Mind controlling isn't an attack; it does no damage, and the armor only blocks damage. Mewtwo could use Teleport to go inside the armor, suffocate both combatants and kill them. Since Mewtwo caused Link to die, he wins.

True, but the Starman negates those anyways.

When the Starman runs out, he fires.

That's called making a counterargument...

That's still annoying, especially since there's already proof.

 

[Munomario777]

His newest attack is that he can split himself in two symmetrical halves and reveal his iconic attack - the black hole. Kirby will take extremely heavy damage if he gets sucked into it.
You were saying? The black hole does a lot of damage to Kirby, if he isn't using Stone.

The black holes from Galaxy instantly KO Mario (who is much larger and likely more durable than Kirby), even if he has a Starman (meaning that Stone might not work here).

You are looking at the wrong part. Look more at 6:00, there are horizontal bolts that Kirby runs from.

And then they catch up to them, as I expanded on in my previous post.

• Regardless of if Kirby could take control of bigger enemies, he could still blow up Rosalina's smaller intersection, which would cause her to die because the fire reaches her heart.
• The enemy's health and Rosalina's health aren't really comparable in this sense. If you flick the enemy twice, it wouldn't really do anything. If you swing a giant hammer at the enemy, he'd probably be defeated. If you swing a giant hammer at Rosalina, she'd just lose one life.
• I don't know what ~=/> means. It just looks like a firework to me.

• Except we don't see him do that.
• I don't see your point here. You just said that the hammer takes away all of the enemy's health, but only one portion of Rosalina's health. Why does this not apply to the explosions?
• Haha, it kinda does actually. Anyway, it means approximately (~) equal to (=) OR (/) greater than (>).

Not to mention, when ten seconds are up, Kirby can use Crash or Mike, which would both go through the forcefield and destroy nearby Lumas.

...if he wasn't already in a black hole or a star by that point.

Tiff was the one running there, so you can count it against her. Plus, they dodge all the other bolts that chase them, that was just one time.

If Kirby wasn't the one running, then why did you bring it up in the first place? Do you have time stamps for those other instances?

I know how it works, but Kracko's untelegraphed attacks aren't in the games, so we can't use them in the lightning bolt discussion.

Other media (such as the anime) > real life.

Shadow got the last actual word on the debate. All you said was: "Since our disagreement doesn't really affect the topic at hand, I'll agree to end the disussion." Since the debate is over, and Shulk has two votes, that means he gets the Monado (with Shulk).

Shadow said that Alvis was separate enough from Shulk to not allow Shulk to use his universe reset (read: Shulk doesn't get Alvis). I agreed to end the discussion there and move on, even though we may have disagreed on the details.

Alright, she gets Star Bits then.

Sounds good.

Mind control doesn't fall under Psychic just because it's psychic. Otherwise, every psychic-type move would fall under the category of Psychic. And again, mind controlling isn't an attack. Confusion confuses an opponent, while mind control makes an opponent do what you tell them to do. There's a difference.

I prefer not to resort to semantics, definitions, and such, but it looks like I'll have to in this instance.
"Attack (n.): an aggressive and violent action against a person or place."
I'd say that controlling someone's mind in order to aid in killing them counts as an aggressive and violent action.

Also, if someone controlled my mind, I'd be pretty confused afterwards. Just sayin'.

And UFO Kirby is immune to black holes. You are forgetting that Kirby has five lollipops he can use at any time. They can stack, if I'm not mistaken. The lollipop lasts longer than a Starman anyways.

When is it shown that UFO Kirby is immune to black holes? Kirby with Invincibility Candy is still affected by gravity, so he is still sucked in by the black hole.

Mewtwo could drop the item and put it under his foot so he can get another one, and so that he wouldn't give items back.

And Link could pick up the item again with the Hookshot, the Clawshot, etc.

When I said the cape and armor couldn't be used simultaneously, I meant it was because Link didn't have enough magic for them.

Except he has unlimited magic for three days.

Mind controlling isn't an attack; it does no damage, and the armor only blocks damage.

See above.

Mewtwo could use Teleport to go inside the armor, suffocate both combatants and kill them. Since Mewtwo caused Link to die, he wins.

The force field is a rather right fit, and Link could still attack Mewtwo either way. How would Mewtwo suffocate both of them? If Mewtwo kills himself in the process, he's still not walking away, and he doesn't win.

When the Starman runs out, he fires.

Except, again, he would already be inside a star or a black hole by then.

That's still annoying, especially since there's already proof.

Annoying =/= wrong in a debate scenario.

 

[Crystanium]

Also @ Kirby Dragons and @Dryn :
Since Link would be invincible with Magic Armor, Psychic wouldn't actually hurt him, it would just be moving him around. Alternatively, he can use Magic Cape so that he can't be touched by Psychic.
And Trick only swaps items (technically 1), so he could only take one item from Link. Since Mewtwo can only hold 1 item, he's not able to take more than one item.

I hope you're not assuming that magic armor will protect Link from any kind of damage. Of course, if we can find how much force the magic armor can withstand and how much damage psychic is supposed to do, we might be able to say that Link will not be harmed. Magic cape could be useful if Mewtwo doesn't have any way of detecting Link's presence. In a composite form, Link may win. In his regular incarnation, I think Mewtwo would have the upper-hand.

 

[Munomario777]

I hope you're not assuming that magic armor will protect Link from any kind of damage. Of course, if we can find how much force the magic armor can withstand and how much damage psychic is supposed to do, we might be able to say that Link will not be harmed. Magic cape could be useful if Mewtwo doesn't have any way of detecting Link's presence. In a composite form, Link may win. In his regular incarnation, I think Mewtwo would have the upper-hand.

I do agree that we shouldn't make assumptions, but I believe the Wind Waker version would protect him. It forms a force field, similar to the force fields used in Protect in the Pokemon games, and those block Psychic (as well as most of Mewtwo's other moves).

 

[TheMainVaporeon]

Yoshi is a dinosaur tho. Am I right?

 

[Crystanium]

I do agree that we shouldn't make assumptions, but I believe the Wind Waker version would protect him. It forms a force field, similar to the force fields used in Protect in the Pokemon games, and those block Psychic (as well as most of Mewtwo's other moves).

Well, you disagreed with me on another issue. So if we're not going to be using elemental compatibility, I don't see why I should assume the magic armor works anything like protect.

Edit
This article is taking too long. The idea of composite Link defeating Samus seems to be based around the idea of Link having Chateau milk to have magic that lasts for three days, the magic cape, and magic armor. ShadowLBlue seems to be like-minded in that Link can use the magic cape or magic armor at a time. This doesn't appear to be a game mechanic, considering it has happened in a few Zelda games like in OoT and MM.

I know Link has hidden skills to aid him in battle, and while a few techniques are capable of killing in a single blow or to get around armored opponents, they're dependent on the circumstances. For example, ending blow can be used at any time on an opponent who is knocked to the ground, regardless of its vitality. I don't believe this works on armored opponents. Link can roll behind his armored opponent, but this is required to strip the leather holding the armor in place. Samus does not have this.

Link has more hidden skills than Samus, but Samus was trained by the Chozo, a race known for its war-oriented past, as well as the Galactic Federation Army. A similar technique she has like ending blow is lethal strike. More powerful enemies will not die from this, but will receive more damage than normal. However, most enemies do die, regardless of the amount of health they have. Here's a video demonstrating Samus' techniques.

I am fine with Link possessing rings for added defense against electricity and fireballs. Here's my thoughts on these. The green holy ring protects Link from electricity. I don't know if this applies only to Link's mail or to his entire body. I will assume the latter. I also don't know how many watts, volts, or amps Link can withstand from this ring, so I decided that since this ring is found in OoA, I would look for enemies that produce electricity. Buzz Blob stands out among them all with the description from the Nintendo's Player Guide for LA, p. 95, which says, "Touch this critter with your Sword and you'll take enough volts to light up a small town." I typically disregard player guides because they're not canon. Let's consider it anyway because I'm not going to downplay Link.

The population of a small town is anywhere between 100,000 to 120,000 people. Let's work with 100,000 people, simply because it's the low-end and because it's simpler. Let's assume there are four people per househould: father, mother, son, and daughter. This means we're working with 25,000 houses. The average household uses 8,900 kilowatt-hours a year. Since I don't know how long this small town would be lit up, I thought a day would be worth considering. So, the average household in a day uses 24.72 kWh. I determined this by taking 8,900 kWh, divided it by 12, since there are twelve months in a year, and then divided that by 30, since thirty days is the average.

By taking the kWh used in a day and multiplying it by 25,000, I ended up with a total of 618,055.56 kWh used in a day in a small town. However, kWh is not the same as kilowatts. To find the amount of power used, I need to divide this by 24 hours, which gives us a total of 25,752.31 watts (26 kW). I realize that the player guide tells us the voltage, but I'm not certain as to how one can find the voltage if we don't know the amps. When it comes to houses, the focus mostly seems to be on kWh, not volts.

The blue holy ring protects Link from the river Zora's fireball. As I said concerning the green holy ring, whether or not this covers Link entirely, or if it's just applied to the mail, I don't know. I'll assume it covers him entirely. The temperature of the flame can be found using color temperature. In ALBW, the fireball has a vermilion exterior. (This is a much better example of the fireball, considering the updated graphics.) Using a color temperature chart I'd say 1,500 K (1,226°C) works.

It's worth noting that in WW, the animation for when Link jumps into magma with the magic armor active is the same as if he wasn't wearing it. The difference is that he doesn't receive any damage. If he jumps against a pillar of magma, he'll simply get knocked back, but won't receive any damage. By the way, I decided that I'd give Link the mirror shield, simply because it protects Link against Twinrova's ice attack. The Hylian shield in SS protects Link from flames and electricity, but considering he has rings for these, I thought it'd make more sense for him to use the mirror shield. The only problem with the mirror shield is that it requires Link to actively block, whereas magic armor does not.

While Link is athletic, this does not tell me how fast he is on foot. Even with the Pegasus boots, which compares the speed to that of Pegasus himself. However, in MC, upon acquiring the Pegasus boots, it says, "You got the Pegasus Boots! Hold the button to run faster than the wind!" How fast is wind? Well, wind can travel slower than 1 m/s, but greater or equal to 32.6 m/s if we use Beufort's wind scale. It is interesting to note that my calculation from ALBW for the Pegasus boots is 79.28 mi/h, and this is amazingly close to 32.6 m/s, or 72.89 mi/h. So I would be quite fine working with 79.28 mi/h, especially considering it's faster than wind. Honestly, I am blown away by how uncannily close my calculation is!

Of course, another interpretation is that the description of the Pegasus boots is that Link can run supersonic speed. Here's why this interpretation could be possible. First, the description about the magic cape says Link turns invisible, yet he's also unharmed by enemies and spikes. If it protect Link from being harmed by enemies, then it could be interpreted as enemies not knowing where Link is, so their attacks would be for naught. However, considering Link can walk on spikes, this suggests that invisibility was conflated with intangibility. This seems to be a common way of thinking.

In Paper Mario, Lady Bow's ability, "Outta Sight", not only prevents enemy attack, but makes Mario intangible as well. This can be seen when projectiles are fired at Mario, whether in battle or not. It'll pass through him. This may be the same for Link's Pegasus boots. Perhaps "wind" was conflated with "sound", so Link ends up being able to run faster than sound. In ALttP, Link can outrun his own arrow if he uses the Pegasus boots. Assuming the arrow flies 200 mi/h, the fact that Link can catch up and outrun his arrow would mean he's running faster than 200 mi/h. However, 200 mi/h seems to be the speed of today's bows and arrows.

Link's arrows use wood, not carbon, so they would travel slower by comparison. Even so, there is no indication of a sonic boom, nor a sound effect to indicate this, either. And no, it shouldn't even be argued that it's due to game limitations. ALBW has such a powerful engine to produce beautiful colors, characters, and locations. Nintendo put time into the sound effects and the dust behind Link's feet. There's no reason a sonic boom couldn't be designed into the game.

I had my brother test to see if Link can outrun his arrows in ALBW, but the arrow leaves the screen and there's a bit of lag before Link can use the Pegasus boots, so there's no exact way of determining whether or not "faster than wind" was being conflated with "faster than sound". Hurricane wind speeds can reach higher than 72.89 mi/h, at least near or up to 200 mi/h. Honestly, though, I'm not sure how high Link's speed would be, but I do like the closeness of my calculation with that of one form of a hurricane speed.

Along with the Pegasus boots, Link would have the bunny hood. Zeldapedia states that the bunny hood increases Link's speed by 68%, but I don't know where this comes from. Even so, let's work with it for fun. So if the Pegasus boots allows Link to run 79.28 mi/h, then an additional 68% would mean that Link's top speed would be 133.19 mi/h. This ends my thoughts on Link's speed.

With all this in mind, here's what I see can happen. Link can choose to use his magic armor or magic cape first. If Link uses his magic armor, I don't think he'll be safe. Here's why. My previous argument about the wave beam was that it fired radio waves. I was wrong. X-rays produce high frequencies and this makes sense for Samus to use the nova beam in conjunction with the x-ray visor. This was based on the fact that the nova beam in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption fired "high-frequency beams". The wave, light, and nova beam all share the same design in the Metroid Prime trilogy. Light is also part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Therefore, the wave beam is probably firing an electromagnetic wave of some sort. This would mean that the wave beam travels at the speed of light.

What is more, the information about the plasma beam from the official Metroid Fusion Web site says that the plasma beam fires three lasers. Lasers can produce plasma because the air would be rapidly heated and ionized as a result. This would mean the plasma beam is using a laser-induced plasma channel. However, when this happens, the laser creates what is called "blooming", which takes away the laser's focus, making it weaker. Fortunately, visual evidence tells us something else about the plasma beam. The plasma beam as portrayed in MOM is always associated with an electrical discharge. I interpret this as the an electrical discharge traveling the plasma channel to hit the target.

What does this mean? Well, the plasma beam is pretty much an electrolaser. Technically, Samus is firing lightning out of her arm cannon. Yes, lightning also uses a plasma channel. It is natural plasma itself. If the discharge from an electrolaser is the same speed as that of lightning, then that means it should be traveling 224,000 mi/h. The plasma beam can be prevented by Ridley when he creates a barrier of his own during the battle, as well as the Queen Metroid by her hardy skin alone, so the plasma beam isn't able to penetrate all things.

While the barrier Ridley creates in battle reflects Samus' beam weapons, we do not know if this would apply with Link as well. We do not know the nature of the barrier Ridley creates, but there is another enemy in MOM called Fumbleye, who has a force field protecting it from Samus' beam attacks. Thanks to Metroid Database, their translation for Fumbleye tells us, "Monster is resistant to strong hits, so beams are ineffective (barrier)." The parentheses with the word "barrier" seems to be there to tell us that this is the reason Fumbleye is resistant to strong hits.

However, the wave beam passes through Fumbleye's barrier, thus ignoring his resistance to strong hits. The wave beam is also capable of piercing through FG-1,000s when she acquires the wave beam, even though previous beams would not have worked on them, due to the metal barrier that protects their turrets from damage. So while MOM tells us that the wave beam can pass through transparent and translucent objects, it still retains the ability to pass through solid objects as well.

While the holy green ring should protect Link from electricity, we can only go with the amount of wattage produced by buzz blobs. Lightning alone produces at least one terawatt in a matter of 30 microseconds. One terawatt is 1.0 * 10^12 watts. The amount of watts from what I found produced by buzz blobs is only 2.575231 * 10^4 watts. To avoid any confusion for those who do not understand scientific notations, one terawatt is one trillion watts. What Link has only demonstrated to be resistant against is twenty-six-thousand watts. Notice the huge gap in the order of magnitude.

Link's magic armor is transparent, meaning the wave beam should be able to pass through. Not only does the wave beam allow Samus' beams to pass through, but the effects associated with them also pass through. This would mean that for every shot fired, the wave beam allows the ice and plasma beam to pass through, making the beam a devastating attack against Link. Again, the amount of watts and temperature Link can withstand is stated above. Considering Samus' beams surpass these, magic armor is probably not the best method Link should use.

I know that the mirror shield can protect Link from Twinrova's ice attack, but Link can still be frozen if he come in contact with the frozen floor. Worse still for Link is Samus' diffusion beam, which causes the ice beam to cover a wide area, as can be seen here. Therefore, I don't think the magic armor is going to protect Link. Even if it could protect him from the beams, Ridley's barrier, which can reflect the beams is still vulnerable to a super missile.

Next is Link's option to use the magic cape to render himself invisible. Samus' initial reaction would likely be using the x-ray scope. The reason is because Samus has fought enemies capable of rendering themselves invisible, such as Chozo ghosts, the Omega Pirate, and even Metroid Prime. While the idea of intangibility might be associated with Link because he can walk on spikes, he is incapable of passing through walls, so this contradicts Link's intangibility. Maybe the cape allows Link to levitate?

Anyway, Samus will just use her x-ray scope for the duration needed in battle, just as she does against the Chozo ghosts and Metroid Prime. Even if Link gets close, I'm not sure how he's supposed to hit someone who can react to objects and attacks traveling supersonic speeds. Arrows of any kind won't be useful in battle, either, considering they're not even close to the speed of sound. So I don't see Link winning against Samus, though in his composite form, he'll be able to defeat a lot of his opponents on the roster.

 

[Munomario777]

Well, you disagreed with me on another issue. So if we're not going to be using elemental compatibility, I don't see why I should assume the magic armor works anything like protect.

We can use elemental compatability (even though this isn't really a case of that in the first place). I'd rather not get into it again, but with the Ganondorf instance, it is shown that light attacks (including the Light Arrow and by extension the Light Beam and other such attacks) stun him, and don't actually deal damage - that's holy weapons' job. With the case at hand, Mewtwo's psychic attacks have been shown to be blocked by force fields (such as Protect and by extension the Wind Waker version of the Magic Armor).

 

[ccell]

Death Battle isn't canon.

It shows off everything canon about kirby. He's strong as ****

 

[Crystanium]

We can use elemental compatability (even though this isn't really a case of that in the first place). I'd rather not get into it again, but with the Ganondorf instance, it is shown that light attacks (including the Light Arrow and by extension the Light Beam and other such attacks) stun him, and don't actually deal damage - that's holy weapons' job. With the case at hand, Mewtwo's psychic attacks have been shown to be blocked by force fields (such as Protect and by extension the Wind Waker version of the Magic Armor).

I agree elemental compatibility doesn't make sense because the qualities found in the light beam are not exactly the same as the light beam. They're only similar in that they're weapons of light, both have the property of solar energy, both are effective against dark creatures filled with hatred. Whether or not the light beam is sacred, I don't know. If the "light energy" was from the Light of Aether, then it might be sacred, simply because the Luminoth have a spiritual fixation towards it. It seems to be capable of giving life, as when U-Mos and other Luminoths say, "May the Light of Aether shine upon you", Samus' health is restored.

If we do this, though, then wouldn't that mean the barrier protecting Samus nullifies psychic as well?

It shows off everything canon about kirby. He's strong as ****

Not really. Kirby has a few neat feats. He can travel in space, which is about 3 K (270.15°C), and he can survive up to 174.82 gees for about a second, which is above 100 gees, the force at which brief human exposure survived a crash, according to Wikipedia - g-force. He's able to inhale at least up to 200 kg. using hypernova based on the Flowery Woods feat. I wouldn't always agree with Death Battles, though. Some are correct, others are not, like Link versus Cloud.

 

[Crystanium]

Accidental double post.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

• If he really wanted to cause Mario pain, then he could have wished for a torture device, or a giant sword, or something to aid him in killing Mario "the traditional way".
• Because the Power Platform doesn't necessarily provide maximum power.

I wouldn't call a torture device traditional, especially since one's never appeared in a Mario game. And he could have wished for a sword, but he has claws and has no experience with a sword. Traditional way meant just defeat him in battle by enhancing his own abilities.

Yes, this is a phenomenon that happens often in games. However, if there's evidence that it could be tied to plot and such, we shouldn't just assume it to be gameplay-story segregation.

But it's not tied into the plot, as you've said yourself you're speculating. It's actually similar to Drynn's argument that since we've never Ganondorf attacked by a variety of non-holy attacks that we can't say he's immune to them. You're saying since he used a wish granting object (with no stated or implied in game restrictions) to win that it clearly must be limited on it's own.

While Bowser may have thought he'd defeated Mario, once he showed up, don't you think he would have done something with his magical, wish-granting Star Rod to help out?

Bowser's not that smart. He's not an idiot but he's typically not smart. There's a reason he tends to get one-upped by other villains in these games.
I'd also like to point out he did, do something once Mario showed up; he repeated the same strategy that won him his first battle, but unfortunately for him Mario had the Star Beam. And Before you ask "well why didn't he use it after he lost?" It's because he (more specifically Kammy) had a back-up plan that involved boosting the Star Rod's power.

And he did wish for more (the buffs via the Power Platform), and if it weren't for Peach and Twink's efforts, terrible things would have happened (the Peach Beam wouldn't be formed, and Bowser wouldn't be defeated, and he would rule the world and such).

False, he didn't wish for buffs. All the buffs he (and the Star Rod) received were courtesy of Kammy Koopa. As I said, the buffs came from Kammy Koopa via the Power Platform. In-game quote from Kammy:
"Bleah nyeah heh hee ha heh!! You fell right into our trap! And you call yourself a hero?! Did you think we were foolish enough to just sit back and watch as you saved the Star Spirits? I've put together a little surprise for you...a device that increases Bowser's power! King Bowser will be so powerful that not even the power of the Star Spirits can compare! He'll now truly be invincible... ...thanks to my wisdom! Are you ready, my King? Then power up!!
"
After which she raises her wand into the air and activates the power-up.

Actually, the invincibility was boosted as well. Pre-Power Platform, the normal Star Beam could negate the invincibility. Post-Power Platform (yay alliterations!), the Star Beam wasn't enough, and the more powerful Peach Beam had to be used. Using an online guide (I haven't played Paper Mario myself), all of the techniques involving the Star Rod (Star Rod Shockwave, Star Rod Shield, and Star Rod Heal) are all boosted in effectiveness.

I actually addressed all of this in my post that you quoted, so rather than repeat myself (I'll nicely) I'll ask you to go back and re-read it.

Actually, he gains the "Star Rod Bolt" attack.

Also false, he has that in the prologue, it's what he uses to knock Mario out of the castle.

Star Haven would definitely benefit from having the Star Rod's ability to grant wishes (with the power source that presumably resides in Star Haven), and if that society had grown accustomed to that power, having it taken away would be the equivalent of an EMP covering the entire earth (thus deactivating all electronic devices); devastating.

It's stated multiple times in game they only (selectively) grant the people's wishes. Considering Stars get their energy from wishes (stated in-game), they wouldn't need the Star Rod for power. Not to mention if you look at Star Haven there's nothing to be "powered" like appliances or street lights.

I hope you're not assuming that magic armor will protect Link from any kind of damage. Of course, if we can find how much force the magic armor can withstand and how much damage psychic is supposed to do, we might be able to say that Link will not be harmed. Magic cape could be useful if Mewtwo doesn't have any way of detecting Link's presence. In a composite form, Link may win. In his regular incarnation, I think Mewtwo would have the upper-hand.

Magic Cape would be useful even if Mewtwo could detect him. No one's arguing the Magic Armor isn't useful just because Mewtwo/others can detect him in it.

Anyway, Samus will just use her x-ray scope for the duration needed in battle, just as she does against the Chozo ghosts and Metroid Prime. Even if Link gets close, I'm not sure how he's supposed to hit someone who can react to objects and attacks traveling supersonic speeds. Arrows of any kind won't be useful in battle, either, considering they're not even close to the speed of sound. So I don't see Link winning against Samus, though in his composite form, he'll be able to defeat a lot of his opponents on the roster.

Samus only moves at supersonic speeds when using speed booster, which admittedly (since we're giving her the Super Metroid version) she'll be able to use quite often.

In the event he gets close and she's invincible, his best (albiet not a good strategy) to stop her would be to try and collide with her head on while using his shield for more resistance. It should have the same effect as running into a wall.
If she isn't invincible then he can attack her with any of his weapons.

BTW Nerdicon said she can't change direction while using Speed booster. Was it possible to run in a circle and activate and maintain speed booster in Other M?

 

[Crystanium]

Samus only moves at supersonic speeds when using speed booster, which admittedly (since we're giving her the Super Metroid version) she'll be able to use quite often.

Samus' normal speed based on the event where she outruns a powdered avalanche puts her at least 30 m/s, or 67 mi/h. Powdered avalanches usually travel 25 m/s. Samus is a few meters ahead of it when outrunning it. This is faster than Link's normal speed, whatever that may be. With the Pegasus boots alone, Link has the advantage, but with that and the bunny hood, he's even faster until Samus activates the speed booster.

In the event he gets close and she's invincible, his best (albiet not a good strategy) to stop her would be to try and collide with her head on while using his shield for more resistance. It should have the same effect as running into a wall.
If she isn't invincible then he can attack her with any of his weapons.

Samus can slam into walls at supersonic speeds without any ill-effects. If Link used this strategy, he could still push Samus, should he come into contact, but her reaction time should allow for her to avoid this from happening.

BTW Nerdicon said she can't change direction while using Speed booster. Was it possible to run in a circle and activate and maintain speed booster in Other M?

Not on a dime, no. Samus can make turns, though. Prior to Metroid: Other M, this was seen in Metroid Fusion. The B.S.L., which Samus was on. She could go from one sector to another, which based on the structure of the B.S.L. would require turning. She can do this in MOM as well, but the turns are shorter. In reality, an object traveling supersonic could also turn. It's turn would just be greater.

The shinespark can allow Samus to launch herself in any direction, though, so that could be a surprise for Link.

 

[The Smashor]

But I'm assuming for now that Ganondorf can only be harmed by light and holy attacks.[/quote]
I don't know for shure, but I think he can be defeted by his own attacks, so he would be hurt by pokemon's confuse effect

 

[The Smashor]

I have no idea whats going on but I think Tabuu would be near Sonic in a cronical teir list due to off waves

 

[Crystanium]

I don't know for shure, but I think he can be defeted by his own attacks, so he would be hurt by pokemon's confuse effect

Ganondorf can be harmed or slayed by anti-demon weapons, such as the master sword, similarly to the way silver bullets can kill werewolves. Those of the Zelda fanbase who can read Japanese translate "the power to repel evil" as "anti-demon". Anti- and daimonion are of Greek origin. Originally, daimonion referred to gods or inferior gods. This word was "demonized" by Christians, thus referring to evil spirits. Hence, "against evil spirits".

Ganondorf is a Gerudo male who is born every one-hundred years. As his hatred grows, he begins to change into a demon. (This is no surprise, considering humans can change into skull kids or stalfos'.) Din's blessing enhances Ganondorf's already powerful magic and makes him immortal. It looks like it enhances his physical strength, too, considering he breaks free from the manacles.

I'm not sure which incarnation we're using, but someone named OriginalA from FactPile stated that Ganondorf in Twilight Princess is the strongest. (This is what I recall him saying anyway.) This is probably due to not only Ganondorf from TP being the same one as OoT, but he also has the magic of the shadow clan ("Twili" in the NoA version). However, the stab wound is vulnerable, even to Wolf Link's jaws, so he does have that weak point. Ganondorf is pretty powerful and can be killed by sacred weapons, light weapons, or he can be sealed away to another dimension.