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Which inputs are more efficent for FC nair?

Aktsumi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
28
Location
Windsor, Ontario

Sycorax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
502
Location
Atlanta, GA
The reason you're getting dairs is because you're pressing down when you press A/Z. Here's the frame breakdown of how float nair goes:

KneeBend - 5 frames
Jump - 1 frame
Float - 1 frame
Nair - 3 frames (4 if you hit something)
Landing lag - 4 frames

You need to be pressing down on the Jump frame to float at the next frame. You need to be pressing A on the Float frame to nair at the next frame. When I float nair, I jump and press down at about the same time (it's a bad habit, I spotdodge OoS a lot when I want to float because I press down too soon). You can press down during any of all those jump frames and hold it through the Jump frame. You have to make sure you let go of it by the Float frame. In reality, that's very hard. You'll probably end up getting a few extra frames of float where you're still holding down because we're only human. Those extra frames of float will hardly matter in any situations.

What matters a lot is fast falling the nair. To do this "optimally", you need to input fast fall on the first frame of nair. What this means is holding down on the Jump frame in order to float, then letting go for one frame to nair, and then pressing down on the next frame to fast fall. THAT's the hard part, that sequence right there. I'm not even sure control sticks move up to neutral position in one frame. In reality, it's rarely ever necessary to do that. You'll notice in the first gif you linked that Armada has to float forward a tiny bit before every nair. This increases the number of frames spent in float and lengthens the time between down inputs making it much more reasonable, but still hard.

Another thing Armada does that makes this technique easier is that, when he hits someone, he fast falls after hitting them. The places numerous hitlag frames between the float and the fast fall input making it very easy to just float foward, let go of down, nair, and fast fall later. However, this method makes Peach lose a few frames of advantage on shields.

One more thing, letting go of float as you start the nair is pretty important in trying to land as soon as possible. You can't fast fall while in float, so if you float too long, the float can eat your fast fall input.

A final note, Sheik could have ASDI'd down any of those nairs and shielded before the next one happened (well maybe not the later ones because he DI'd up popping him up into the air). Honestly, these quick nairs are not very useful and amount to nothing more than a neat party trick. FC fair to FC nair or nair to nair can sometimes be useful, but those situations are mixups and all the top tiers have ways to deal with it.
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
Practice floating in two sets of inputs.

Set 1:
:GCX::GCY: Press [and hold] a jump button.
:GCDR::GCD: Press down on the control stick.
----------:GCN: Release the stick and let it return to neutral
Set 2:
:GCA::GCZ: Press an attack button
----------:GCD: Release the jump button; press down on the control stick to fastfall
----------:GCN: Release the stick and let it return to neutral.
 

Sycorax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
502
Location
Atlanta, GA
Posting this here because a friend asked a related question and wanted me to write it out. These are the inputs for a "perfect" FC nair. Inputs are listed at the frame of input.
Code:
  Frame   Animation   Input  
 ------- ----------- ------- 
      1   KneeBend    jump  
      2   KneeBend    
      3   KneeBend          
      4   KneeBend          
      5   KneeBend          
      6   JumpAirF          
      7   Float       down        
      8   Nair        A      
      9   Nair        down  
     10   Nair
The first down input can happen any time before frame 7. It just needs to be held until frame 7. The second down input can happen at frame 9 or 10.
 

Sir_Slice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
53
I'm slightly confused... Why does kneebend have to be a part of the float cancel. You can't use it OOS so why practice it like that without shield. And wouldn't it be slower than Y then down. As soon as you are aerial you can float.
My problem is I did learn it kneebend first and I'm practicing OOS options now and its making it really hard not to spot dodge on accident.. I have to learn it over again.
 

Ezlo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
64
Why does kneebend have to be a part of the float cancel.
By kneebend, Sycorax doesn't mean pressing down. "Kneebend" is another way to say "Jumpsquat," or the time after you press the jump button before you leave the ground. After you press Y, you have 5 frames of Kneebend/Jumpsquat automatically.
Pressing down on the control stick makes you "crouch," not "kneebend." I think that's what was confusing you.
 

Sir_Slice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
53
By kneebend, Sycorax doesn't mean pressing down. "Kneebend" is another way to say "Jumpsquat," or the time after you press the jump button before you leave the ground. After you press Y, you have 5 frames of Kneebend/Jumpsquat automatically.
Pressing down on the control stick makes you "crouch," not "kneebend." I think that's what was confusing you.
Thanks Ezlo I didn't understand the difference between crouch and kneebend
 
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