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What does "camping" mean?

ShroudedOne

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I've noticed that I often get into discussions/debates/arguments with people about "camping." Whether a certain player camps, or whether or not a stage is inherently campy. I've even been called a really campy player (though I don't see it, but it's whatever). So I'm curious as to what the community thinks "camping" really is. Is it running away, throwing items for 8 minutes? It is simply not approaching as much as your opponent (so maybe you like to throw your shield up more)? Is it using projectiles to get in? I personally believe that it's more of the first one, that you simply run away from your opponent.

I realize that asking for where the arbitrary line exists between aggressive play and campy play is like asking for someone to tell me what the color red looks like, but I'm curious. Perhaps I'll get something out of it.

And it could be very well possible that the only play styles that are actually aggressive are those of Mango and Shiz, and that everyone is camping covertly. =)
 

kevo

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Camping is when my Young Link maining friend throws ten thousand boomerangs, shoots arrows, collects firewood, pitches a tent, and roasts marshmallows on the far end of Pokemon Stadium.
 

Krynxe

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Refusing to approach and being campy is like playing by only punishing your opponents' approaches and not ever approaching on your own. Doing **** out of shield and punishing with high priority moves when they approach all day erry day for 8 minutes.

Waiting to approach is spacing yourself until they do anything punishable and approaching on your own, meaning your intent is to approach them and apply pressure at some point. Whether or not that means being defensive or camping for a little while is irrelevant. The big difference is if you're consistently being gay, as jackpot put it.
 

Pi

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playing the smartest you can at ur current level

you camp till you see an oppening, it's how you play smart, if you see less openings than someone else, or are able to act on those oppenings less than someone else, then you are worse than that person.

camping has just recieved a negative connotation, when it shouldn't
 

VGmasta

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Camping is refusing to approach, or approaching only in disproportionately advantageous situations, once a lead is obtained.
^^ This

Other components of "camping" can also include excessive ledgestalling, profuse attack spam, and extravagant, evasive actions such as platform/stage camping and dash dancing.

Is there a diffference between refusing to approach, and waiting until you can approach? Or no?


Explain?
Of course there is a difference. Simply refusing to approach just means you won't approach ever or you would rather play safe most of the time. Waiting until you can approach means waiting for a safe opening to approach through. Although, playing safe is often categorized as camping. This topic often comes up in most competitive games. (This is how one can tell a game to be truly competitive)
 

Myztek

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Obvious stuff like running away the entire match and spamming projectiles. Float camping. Blah blah. The obvious stuff.

Most people probably complain and call their opponent's playstyle "gay" or campy whenever they're unable to easily get around it.

It's a bit like Mango was talking about in the podcast. He said that a majority of players play "gay." I wouldn't say that's necessarily true, but most people prefer to go on the defensive and wait for their opponent to screw up an approach. This method of play is very effective against lesser players, but, overall, waiting on your opponent to make a mistake isn't very reliable. And if you have a hole somewhere in your defense, a good player will certainly find it and exploit it.

Defensive play, again, is great against predictable players. But if you're facing someone with a good mix up game and unexpected approaches, your defensive wall will only hold up for so long.

EDIT: Basically what I'm saying is... It's better to make opportunities than to wait for them.
 

Kal

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Camping is incredibly effective in certain situations. Half of the Sheiks I play (that is, two of them >_>) lose to my Fox because I just run away and laser and they can't handle it. However, in certain situations, camping is a very, very bad strategy. Take, for example, anyone refusing to approach Fox or Falco.
 

ShroudedOne

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I've never felt that camping was that great, which is why I never understood why people hated it so much. I mean, sure, it can be annoying, but it certainly isn't a perfect strategy.

So camping is more than simply "not approaching." Waiting for your opponent to mess up isn't really that effective, but I wouldn't call that camping necessarily. But I suppose that by some definitions, it would be.

And Rock Lee, in my own opinion, I wouldn't classify what you stated as camping, I think. Playing safe until you see an opening is different from simply running away and spamming projectiles. At least, that's how I see it.
 

-ShadowPhoenix-

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What if you suck *** at approaching against a certain character and dont do it cuz you know you'll get *****. does that count as camping???
 

Kal

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ShroudedOne, there are plenty of situations where camping is the optimal strategy. Many examples exist with Fox, in particular.
 

ShroudedOne

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Yeah, like with Fox against Jigglypufff. I'm aware of that, but it certainly isn't unbeatable. If it isn't perfect, I don't see why people should complain about it...I guess. That might be broken logic, though.
 

Kal

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Most people complain about things because they dislike them. For example, **** Falco.

In all seriousness, you shouldn't complain about things in general. It's not something anyone wants to hear. Sadly, even the best of us (that means me >_>) complain.

It is perhaps frustrating for players who want to have fun in friendlies to be forced to play to win. I am somewhat in agreement; when players camp, they're basically discouraging me from trying things and testing things, because my response strategy with Fox is to SHDL. With Marth, I have more room to try things out (because this is a strategy I might see used against Marth in tournament). An important point to make is that, when you camp very hard in friendlies, you also lose some room (or a lot of room) for personal innovation and improvement. It's not a strategy you can really improve on, and it does not teach you much.

Regardless, the point to get from all this is: I personally don't think you should camp in friendlies, but it's a personal choice, and you shouldn't ***** if the opponent disagrees.
 

frotaz37

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Everyone complains. Especially the best players. Probably the biggest complainer about "camping" was Ken. Every time he lost, he would call the person who beat him a camper, and would come on smashboards and insist that the character he lost to was the best character in the game.

What is camping? I don't know. It's really hard to say in a fast paced game like melee, especially when there are tournament caliber characters who don't benefit from approaching as much as they do from not approaching.
 

stelzig

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Running away is the one that reminds the least of what the word actually means :p
I think you'll find that in most games it's waiting for/forcing your opponent to come to you, which kinda includes all of the things mentioned.
You shouldn't take it too hard to be called campy either. If you aren't playing at least a little defensive, you're only letting your opponent play that way even more and it's quite effective to play that way... :p (and as was mentioned earlier... Everyone complains often it's not even in a too serious tone - they realise they're just johning :p)
 

azianraven

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I think that almost every smasher approaches the game with a reactive playstyle with the exceptions being very few and far in between. Reacting to your opponent's move is exponentially easier than attempting to approach the opponent with your own physical character.

Characters with projectiles don't need to wait for an opponent's action to see a reaction as they can just toss bombs, shoot lasers, or throw turnips and proceed to watch if you will jump, shield, get hit, etc. It's pretty much camping if done so excessively that the camping chump is refusing to approach even with a lead. If I can get free damage on you and provide pressure from a distance, why shouldn't I do this until you can get through and try to take my stock?

That being said, camping isn't a bad option given the matchup. The only reason I see it being labeled as gay is because it works. As falco, there's no reason why you wouldn't want to stop shooting lasers at ganon unless you're attempting to send him off the stage. He can't combat your projectiles from a distance except with shielding, which, more often than not, is the position you want your opponent to be.

Playing patient and playing campy are very similar in terms of how they look on screen which makes it hard to differentiate, but the goals between the two are extremely different.
 

ShroudedOne

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Playing patient and playing campy are very similar in terms of how they look on screen which makes it hard to differentiate, but the goals between the two are extremely different.
And here lies the dilemma. Those who complain never seem to be able to differentiate "patient" and "camping," which is why when we have these discussions, I am forced to assume that we are talking about two different definitions, and thus cannot move forward.

In my mind, patience/defensive play is waiting for the right time to approach. Camping is simply keeping your opponent away from you forever, or running away from them. But it seems like a really difficult term to get a definition for.
 

Massive

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And here lies the dilemma. Those who complain never seem to be able to differentiate "patient" and "camping," which is why when we have these discussions, I am forced to assume that we are talking about two different definitions, and thus cannot move forward.

In my mind, patience/defensive play is waiting for the right time to approach. Camping is simply keeping your opponent away from you forever, or running away from them. But it seems like a really difficult term to get a definition for.
There is no difference between playing defensively/patiently/reactively and camping.
The only thing separating them is how your actions are perceived.

Playing in a reactive way can make you appear to "camp" to many people, and playing in an offensive way will make you appear to "spam gay moves" to the same people. It's lose-lose with individuals who have difficulty accepting a loss or losing to a strategy that is annoying/non-glamorous.

If you have a reactive playstyle you will eventually be called out for camping. That's pretty much it. It's a legitimate strategy, and it unfortunately works too well to ever be done away with.
 

RyeJew

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I camp top platforms w/ fox vs marth to get him to jump, I also use shine to deflect falco's lasers from a distance to mess up his spacing so they approach w/o them. Even though I'm doing these things only until they approach me then change to reactive and combo etc. does this really count as camping? Wondering cuz I've been getting a little heat for it lately and it seems silly to be..
 

Uffe

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I believe the best way to explain camping is that when you're fighting someone who constantly runs away and will use his or her projectile as a means of avoiding damage. My friend uses Fox, and what he'll do is run to the end of Final Destination and fire his Blaster. The moment I get close, he'll try to Illusion away or jump away. I also fight this Link player who will run away and throw his Bombs and Boomerang, and then fire his Arrows. It is annoying. I guess you just really have to focus on what they're doing.

The gameplay itself becomes boring to the point I stop trying.
 

Mew2King

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Also it's really easy to be aggressive with fox and falco

all the other characters are better defensively though

Jiggs Sheik Marth Samus Ganon Peach etc

only 3 good aggressive characters are Fox, Falco, and Pikachu

you can just randomly overshoot a nair with those guys and call it approaching. Just aim a little bit past them is really effective
 

Wake

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Thank you Based Mimi.
Also it's really easy to be aggressive with fox and falco

all the other characters are better defensively though

Jiggs Sheik Marth Samus Ganon Peach etc

only 3 good aggressive characters are Fox, Falco, and Pikachu

you can just randomly overshoot a nair with those guys and call it approaching. Just aim a little bit past them is really effective
This is a good post.
 
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I've always seen camping as maintaining positioning that does not put you at at risk. Whether your attempting to work around an opponents shield, staying on the ledge, dash dancing around, not reaching in until you confirm the choice of a tech chase, etc., its all camping in some form or another.
 

joejoe22802

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Whats the point of this thread?

Is a spaced aerial camping? (Or rather attacking with intentions other than hitting the person)

Also, spacing close with good shield pressure and attacking more often than not can still be defensive.
 

ShroudedOne

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Also it's really easy to be aggressive with fox and falco

all the other characters are better defensively though

Jiggs Sheik Marth Samus Ganon Peach etc

only 3 good aggressive characters are Fox, Falco, and Pikachu

you can just randomly overshoot a nair with those guys and call it approaching. Just aim a little bit past them is really effective
I agree with Wake. This is a good post, and many people forget that.

Whats the point of this thread?

Is a spaced aerial camping? (Or rather attacking with intentions other than hitting the person)

Also, spacing close with good shield pressure and attacking more often than not can still be defensive.
I'm trying to see if I can get some workable definition of camping that makes sense to everyone, and can be agreed upon, so that camping debates don't have to pop up as much. And I know it helps some people (me personally, anyways) to be able to mark clear lines between play styles.

By some of what I've seen in this thread, if you are doing something without the intent of attacking your opponent, that's camping. But then you'd have to start identifying the motives of certain moves. Maybe that spaced aerial was placed there so that he could get an attack. Technically, that would be spacing the aerial with the intent of attacking (just not with that aerial). But I fear that that would be far too semantic (even though this discussion is essentially that).
 

joejoe22802

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@ShroudedOne

If you're trying to reach a working definition. I think your approach leads to some huge generalizations which ultimately become more debilitating than helpful. Rather than labeling things as general, why not just label them as what they are?

If they are running away, the answer is to make them approach. Don't just play into their hand and reveal all your cards by attacking head on.

If they simply aren't approaching you could make them approach or even overwhelm them aggressively.

I feel like what you defined as camping can be seen as aggressive.

Also I don't think people space aerials with intent to attack afterwards so automatically. That approach just isn't that linear. It's not a combo.
 

Jonas

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Is there another, more obscure definition of "approach" that we're not aware of? It seems like a simple enough concept.
Approaching is never straightforward. If we define camping as any instance of not approaching, we must clarify what exactly we mean by approaching. For instance, one way to approach could be to jump straight at your opponent with an aerial, but there are also passive aggressive playstyles in which you pressure your opponent and look for an opening, which could or couldn't be considered approaching depending on whom you ask. Saying "camping is not approach" simply isn't precise enough.
 

Mr Wizzrobe

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I always defined "approaching" as actually doing so to your opponent. As in, finding or looking for an opening and then eliminating space between you and your opponent so you can capitalize on it with an attack or grab.

Or if you main Fox or Falco you have the Nairplane/Dairtrain, so less thought is put into approach because it is so much easier for those silly misfit woodland creatures.

In my mind, camping is refusing to approach so that your opponent is forced to instead, and depending on how well the specific strategy works, you can effectively punish it. Example, Hungrybox is camping Bairs, aggro Fox gets impatient and approaches, Hungrybox punishes and Fox dies.
 
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