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What do you think would make Smash 4 a perfect game

FireBall Stars

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
714
Location
Brazil, South America
Many things already said, so I'll try to focus on things not yet said.

Non ridiculously long buffer window (I'd prefer no buffer at all, but that me).
Slower shield in comparison to brawl.
Retain momentum from run/dash to jump.
Non-tumble Regular DI.
DI to be of same effectiveness on all directions.
No dead frame on jump.
Higher traction.
Higher overall gravity.
No absurdly big ledge grab boxes.
No ledge grabbing backwards outside from specific recovery moves.
Stale moves negation to affect only attacks' damage.
Keep the turnaround grab.

a lot of small good stuff from melee and brawl I don't want to take my time writting.

Good luck m2k.





No jump cancellable shines.
 

Sylin Mino

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
3
Oh wait, one more thing I forgot:

Regarding counter moves (like Marth's, Ike's, Lucario's, etc.): At least for the swordsmen, make it more of a parry move than an automatic counter. Instead of just automatically blocking the move and hitting the guy back, how about that only makes the move blocked and then throws the opponent offguard so that you can rebutt upwards or in different directions, so it's more like a parry and or a riposte?
 

Senortesta

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
86
Location
NY
I mainly want there to be a good online multiplayer and for the ledge grab not to be huge and last forever.
 

Smash Bro

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
365
Location
Finishing school in Rustboro City
Some sort of mind-blowing, US-game-esque collector's edition. Art book, audio CD with a few main tracks (no way would I expect every single song from a Smash game to be included; they'd have to package a million disks per game!), and a DVD of behind-the-scenes development.

I absolutely love that kind of stuff. Also, DLC and alternate costumes that are a little more exciting than a palette swap.
 

Frogman751

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
43
Location
Buffalo, New York
make it play like melee/project m. create Nintendo licensed gcc converters or release a gc style "classic" controller for the wii u. Having good online play with both of these things would make me ****
 

GaretHax

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
464
Balance between offensive and defensive options, some way to deal with dash dancing being one of the most powerful tools in the game (melee). Perhaps momentum or a slightly slower (and less silly looking movement)

A game that is truely difficult to play campy: with tangible rewards for offensive, innovative, and intelligent play. Defense is a bit too strong an option in both melee and brawl imo and I think movement should be tweaked to better allow players to overcome one another's defensive strategies.

More accessible tech-skill barrier than in melee, I can multishine, wavedash, tai drop, and all those goodies but I think it would really help the game if it had IASA frames and buffer for certain actions like wavedashing, platform canceling, and other advanced tech's should they actually be intentional.

Intentional and purposeful design towards high level play, I refuse to call it competitive because it's a multiplayer game and the second two controllers end up plugged in everyone is competing (just at different levels of skill or experience).

Even more movement options or characters loosely based around keeping on high-pressure/ and outmanuvering the oppoment.

Fast-paced and rich-technical gameplay hidden just under the surface of an easily accessible, enjoyable, and playable game would be ideal.

Less characters and more focus on character moveset continuity, flow/usefulness, and balance.

Some characters have Air-grabs for specials to make for even more down-and dirty grappling characters than (PM) Gannon and (Melee) Falcon in order to make their gameplay even sexier.

Wayyyyyyy better netcode, you know one that isn't hilariously high-school-class-project terrible.
Oh and no obvious scams that used to be provided for free or with the original game back when customers mattered. (DLC)

Honestly I have like a 5 page paper I wrote ages ago, but you just wanted quick opinions lol. Hope the game is great! Glhf you lucky bugger. Above all else make sure they preserve the freedom of choice, movement, and all around options that makes smash so special.
 

BlackDr.Mario

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
31
Location
Delaware
One more thing: BETTER ONLINE

Better Options
-Online Singles
-More Game modes
-Tournaments
-Online recording options
-Search options based on connection strength
-Search options for pros or amateurs
 

Orngeblu

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
748
Location
Rock Hill, South Carolina
3DS FC
0104-1846-4809
I just want a better online. A ranking system would be cool, actually. (I think I might've said I didn't care in other thread, but I've changed my mind now) Of course, lagless. The ability to invite a team member whether friend roster or a local friend to be able to play on Team Battle.

As for game play mechanics...I'm not too sure what would be best for the game, but I'd love a more fast-paced game. I wouldn't mind it staying the same, though. (In order to make it faster, we'll need some new mechanics) What Dabuz said, revamped ledge mechanics... I'm not sure what else.
 

DakotaBonez

The Depraved Optimist
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
2,549
Location
San Marcos, Texas
Lots of easily accessible user created content.
Like stages and replays. I hope that the next smash will expand upon the replay feature and let us compile multiple clips together with some cinematic FX.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
Most important post of this thread:

1. Functional online play (very low levels of input lag, PLEASE) with an in-game ladder system that caters to competitive players for both singles and doubles. Rules can be derived from a specific community or some other method of determination, but the main idea is to remove as many random variables during matches as possible alongside avoiding over-centralization with certain character/stage combinations (i.e. MK + Rainbow Cruise). Casual players can play unranked (or a different division) matches with items and the like. Region searches for competitive matches is recommended (thanks to whoever mentioned this earlier.)

2. A very wide skill gap between amateur players and pro players. This is open to interpretation and should be within the game editor's discretion (advanced techniques, benefits of knowing frame data, etc.) Wave dashing/L-canceling don't necessarily need to be in the game for a wider skill gap, but are recommended in terms of spacing/mobility and promote player refinement as well as higher skill capacities for competitive play. Giving characters a plethora of options is also recommended.

3. Previously mentioned in first paragraph, but avoid over-centralization as much as possible; wider character diversity is always welcome and appreciated in a fighting game's lifespan. Stages that promote circle camping, stalling, or tactics that take away from the game and how it was meant to be played should be avoided (ex. New Pork City). At worst, acknowledge the silliness capacity of stages like Hyrule Temple and keep them out of competitive play.

4. More focus on on-stage game play. The ledge/off stage positioning should never be a strong position to be in (ex. Meta Knight). Melee ledge mechanics are recommended here.

5. Keep combos fluid; structured built-in combos like in SF would take away from the Smash series as a whole.

6. Be careful with invincibility animations as well as hit stun/shield stun. Hit stun shouldn't be too high and neither should shield stun, but avoid catering to defensive play (this is going to be hard to balance, but can be achieved.)

7. Chain grabbing should be kept to a minimum. Infinites should be avoided and taken out. If certain infinites make it through beta testing (likely), be willing to hot fix the game.

8. If editors do hot fixing/DLC, make patch notes publicly available.

9. A viable controller should be available for players who want to play the game competitively (albeit this isn't within the game editor's discretion, but they should definitely pitch the idea to Nintendo). I haven't checked what options there are (presumably there is a controller available that looks like a Playstation controller though), but I myself (alongside tons of people in the competitive community) have always loved the GC controller. Food for thought.

10. Glaringly bad match ups should be avoided, (D3 vs. Donkey Kong).
 

QWA

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
191
Location
Mineral, VA
Smash 64/ Melee mix. So basically Melee with taunt canceling, L-canceling removing all lag, and a tad bit more hit-stun. That is a game that I would play.
 

hichez50

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
1,464
Location
Georgia
NNID
Player-00
3DS FC
2122-6108-1245
Smash 64/ Melee mix. So basically Melee with taunt canceling, L-canceling removing all lag, and a tad bit more hit-stun. That is a game that I would play.
Why not just make your own version of that? If that is all you want you can have that now.
 

ccst

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
632
Location
Sweden
Switch FC
4825-3626-0014
Better and less laggier online play, gamecube controller, keep the buffering, DLC/patching and a game that rewards skills rather than MUs (no tripping and things like chaingrabs or infinities plz). Focus on Melee's balancing hitboxes with Brawl's floatiness and gameplay, and combine the hitstun between Melee and Brawl. And make the characters hard to learn (like R.O.B., oh gear what people could learn from this 'bot, balanced in every possible way and is the definition of pure skill) so skills can be rewarded and shown instead of noobs thinking they're good with (especially) MK, but I'm looking at top 7 too. These are only a few things I mentioned but trust me I could go on for ages, so I better stop. Cofah! ([OO]
 

Jellyfishn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
387
Location
Utah
I really want L-cancelling back. Also no tripping, and make everyone a little less floaty. More hitstun, but not as much as Melee or 64. Make the edges a little less easy to grab, but still decently grabbable. Get rid of tether-only recoveries, or make them better (maybe even like they were in melee).

Oh, and I still want footstooling in. I love it.
 

Frostwraith

The Demon King
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
16,679
Location
Portugal
NNID
Frostwraith357
Not to be rude, but I observe that many people are setting themselves to disappointment once they get their hands on the new game.

I can't help but think on the possibility of Smash 4 dividing the community even further and being the cause of more senseless flame wars.
 

MEOW1337KITTEH

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
1,072
Location
Tucson, AZ
NNID
daniel7001
Being able to choose between melee and brawl airdodges would be awesome. Obviously no tripping, but that's a given.
 

Amida64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
315
Location
Lexington, Kentucky
Character balance, no tripping, better/actually good online, and NO STUPID/INVISIBLE HIT BOXES!! (Coming from a snake main) Also make sure no character sucks, samus back air has a hit box LESS than what the actual foot/leg is..... that is dumb. Also, only patch really broken things, patching too often can ruin a game, especially since the creators may not know what actually IS broken. (Example: they probably thought samus fully charged beam was broken/overpowered that is why it is SO bad in brawl - you can survive it at 150)

Also, keep control editing, even 64 and melee players will agree to this.
Tap jump sucks!
 

RedGamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
928
Location
San Antonio Texas
how about an option to enable/disable the advanced techniques.
for example, press start -> casual or competitive -> choose option -> solo or group -> choose group -> fight or [other menu options] -> choose fight -> ?

choosing casual will allow the gameplay without the mechanics that will speed up gameplay. (wavedashing, L-canceling, pivoting, jump-canceling anything, etc.)
choosing competitive will allow the EXACT SAME GAMEPLAY only with more options enabled. (you can now wavedash l-cancel, etc.)
this way, on the casual option you could practice things like spacing without having the distractions that come with practicing techskill.
maybe if we could enable/disable in the options, that would be awesome.

I want the fluidity of melee, not just the mechanics. I prefer the way melee feels over project m, although I would like something in between.
this is an idea I thought about pitching to nintendo myself.
 

Amida64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
315
Location
Lexington, Kentucky
Someone out there I know is going to invent a way to plug your gamecube controller into your wii remote and just map the buttons like the classic controller... whoever does can make a PayPal/eBay FORTUNE
Like three people already have.... I already ordered one.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
37,923
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Ridley.

Start with that.
 

Ryuker

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Messages
1,520
Location
The Hague , Netherlands
Besides the obvious stuff I'd like to see an actual change. I was thinking of a mahvel-esque tag team battle where you pick two characters and pull off awesome hand offs with any two characters the way ice climbers work. Not controlling both characters but switching between them as well as calling on them while in shield or when you grab someone
Like this idea(pairing chars with instant or timed switching) since it's the only one suggesting a radical change that if done well could add a whole new layer of counterpicking and combo strategies to the game). Could also become a seperate mode though but it would be interesting if they used this pair idea as their base and see where it got them. Could also see this work with 4 players swapping in.

I've been thinking about possible changes you could make to smash for quite a while but it's hard since melee felt so perfect and brawl felt so off. I think I kinda like the complexity as it is and prefer the way melee is set up (fast paced, smart combo driven in your face battles). Air grabs would be the first thing on my mind as a possible usefull addition to the basic moveset but that's really just another way of gimping. In that sense I really hope smash 4 doesn't break stuff that already works over attempting to fix stuff and implementing stuff that doesn't work.

What I'd desire from a near perfect Smash 4 would be the following:
0. ACTIVE COMMUNICATION WITH AND QA DONE BY IMPORTANT QUALIFIED MEMBERS IN THE COMPETITIVE SMASH COMMUNITY
(m2k testing is a good start, but there exist a lot more and this community has more then proven that it's healthy, has a incredible competitive passion and desire to be recognized as a professional e-sport, is resourcefull and experienced. It would be foolish for nintendo to not engage with it more since it can only help their public image and benefit the gamedesign.)

VITAL
1. Responsive frame precise fast split second always consistent input handling (no annoying buffering, lagged inputs etc), fast paced (could be faster then melee).
2. Chars should feel solid with a firm grounding, should have a certain weight to them (not like they are are metal while walking on ice, unless that fit's the char)
3. Obvious inclusion of the most popular basic movement and AT's (Wave dashing, dash dancing, wavelanding etc). Melee air dodge system (possibly mixed with braws eg first one before land on ground is directional rest is non directional)
4. Really good controll over positioning on the stage and positioning in the air.
5. Prefer fallspeed weight and speed of melee. Possibly even faster. Don't prefer the floaty feel unless it's char specific.
6. DI properly implemented (smash DI, survival DI etc)

HIGHLY PREFERRED
3. No tripping and by that I mean randomized factors that can affect the outcome extremely minimized or with an option to turn off. Randomized factors should never influence your basic movement decisions (like jumping or walk instead of running due to possible trip).
4. Practise should make perfect. By that I mean you need to be able to practise AT's with a clear effect on your characters controllability, speed etc. Practise should expand your options (not taken literally, I don't mean unlocking movesets or stat modifications). Like to be able to discover new AT's by researching the options available to me.
5. Opportunity to have both fast paced matches as slow well planned mindgamy heavy read based matches.
6. Should cater to both defensive and agressive etc playstyles. Don't prefer a campy, spammy direction.
7. Extremely well balanced considering all different playstyles (extremely difficult so should check with qualified members of community). Should aim to make every char competitive viable and feel unique, could also take possible counterpick chars in consideration that fit same playstyles.
8. No near optimal strategies like wobbling etc (really hard to prevent so check with Qualified members of community when nerf is required).
9. Rewarding situations (combo opportunity's, string of hits etc) when exploitinging openings. This annoyed me in brawl in which there is too much opportunity to escape comboes through airdodges + low hitstun and thus each hit results in a counter situation.
9. The ledge game rethinked and improved (deeper strategies, less opportunity for easy low risk gimps, more opportunity for risky gimps). Here's a radical idea. Remove the ledge invincibility on grab during fall, maintain ledge invincibility during roll, get up, or when grabbed during a special move. Ledge grab limit (possibly tweakable)
10. Game should feel cool and professional, not childish. Honoring the nintendo legacy is fine but should be done in a way that the graphic style fits a competitive e-sport. I prefer the darker tone melee had.
11. Tested to reduce obvious would be banned stalling tactics etc. Game should encourage confrontation not avoidance.
12. Stage layout designed to take stagecounterpicking into account. Shouldn't feel to similar but also should feel balanced. Possible optimal strategies extremely minimized.
13. Usefull addition to the air game like air grabs. More opportunity for interesting mixups in the air.
14. Proper training mode that matches perfectly with versus mode (controls etc) with a frame by frame option and frame numbers.
17. L-Cancelling could be there but I'd prefer a different benefit to when you don't l-cancel a move (thus chose the lag). Then it becomes a decision and not just a obvious gateway when attempting to connect combos.
18. Stage glitches like battlefields minimized.
19. Char moves should feel like they have impact in both sfx and fx and animation. Prefer the ones in melee.


Would be cool:
1. A tournament menu that is approved by important tourney TO's. Possibly even closed - beta tested through a small tourney.
2. Proper online support with leaderboards, matchmaking, match finding and of course almost no lag.
3. Option to manage rumble feature for names in char selection menu.
4. Usefull system for stage banning - possibly even controlled by one central wii-u in the tournament room so the TO can ensure each wii-u is setup correctly.
5. Best off system ( would prevent having to ask a TO if it's Bo5 or Bo3) - same idea with TO controlling this with one central wii-u
6. Dave's stupid rule implemented with option to use?
7. Better recording options (offer cutting controlls), possible to direct upload to youtube?
8. Option to specify certain part of replay (if your just looking to save a interesting combo), proper organisation options.
9. Option to reveal Hitboxes and other vital information. The less we have to hack to find the information we're looking for the better.
10. Usefull additions to the shield system, help to escape shield pressure etc. Possibly even options to use offensively.
11. Possibly some interesting additions to the throw options. (angled throws, charged throws, charged slaps etc)
12. Cube Controller support - not gonna happen... :'(. Wired USB controller support in the least.
14. Ability to equip (x) amount of weapons/items before a match. Prefer Non char specific (although that could work to)
13. Crowds that actually know when to start cheering XD

What it shouldn't have:
1. The current starfox char designs

Then of course a well thought out versatile cast like everyones mentioning. Maintain the regular cast, add new ones that would fit with the games system.
And the other obvious stuff like matching sfx, music, environment design etc. Pretty confident they can realize a interesting roster. It's their understanding and support of the competitive aspects of smash that I'm worried about.

Your mostly likely gonna sign a NDA before testing so you wont be able to give us any info and impressions I suspect but I wish you good luck M2K! If you could at least get across the most vital information and point out obvious flaws you encounter that'd be great!
 

DRGN

Technowizard
Moderator
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
2,178
Location
Sacramento, CA
I started making a list comparing to Brawl because it was the last game, but quickly realized that didn't make sense, lol.

Off the top of my head in comparing to Melee:

The ability to save all of your settings (like Stock mode, time limits, etc.)

Maybe VERY slightly slower speed (just so it's more about what you want to do and not what you can; in other words, so it's more about the mind than the interface). A couple more frames of buffer in certain cases would help with this too. (But of course it's the community's preference on how hard they want it to be to play. That's another matter.)

Decent start-up and cool-down on moves for punishment's sake.

Attention to the sense of hitbox coverage, as mentioned above.

Don't have time to post more. I may think more on it later.
 

Cosmic Gryphon

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
4
Everything that was in melee (except wobbling and all of the banned glitches) should return to smash bros. 4.
 

Cosmic Gryphon

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
4
In addition, Gamecube backward compatibility. Some of the people may have mentioned USB controllers already, but it's pretty important.
 

Kewkky

Uhh... Look at my status.
Premium
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
8,019
Location
San Diego, CA
Switch FC
SW-7001-5337-8820
I want hitstun unable to be cancelled by attacks or airdodges. I also want powershielding to reflect projectiles and items again.
 

Amida64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
315
Location
Lexington, Kentucky
Idealistically, make every character like brawl's falco, a solid character with obvious weakness. He can rack up damage, he is not broken, no really bad hit boxes, and he has the weakness of not being able to kill much at all. I am not saying to give every character the same strength/weakness, just make them as balanced as falco.

Obviously you might want to get rid of his chain grab, even though more skillful players can avoid it better, but it IS broken otherwise. (Most people do not know how to deal with chain grabs)
 

delphis0042

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1
I would like to see that they use the game pad as like a fifth controller to control aspects of the stage. Like for simpler stages they control when, where and what items drop for characters to use. and for other they control the actions that the computer would do, for example on Corneria they would control the planes that fly through and shoot characters or like on pokemon stadium controlling which map the stage changes to, on a stage like final destination however players would be able to unlock bosses to have on the stage fighting all the normal players, i.e. master hand.
 
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