What are some good ways to set up for Wobbling?

[Huskeii]

Hey, I'm new to the forums and a new competitive Melee player. I picked up Ice Climbers because they are a character that I love both in playstyle and as the character themselves. I've been practicing wobbling and pretty much got the rhythm down. Problem is, I'm not really sure what are some good set ups to start wobbling.

 

[Samwisely]

Forget wobbling for now. When you start, you want to have adequate control of your character, and learn how to play without relying on wobbling. Many new players learn wobbling right away, and this leads to people fishing for the infinite when they really shouldn't. It lends itself to one dimensional gameplay, and when your opponents figure out how to avoid that one thing, you're sunk. It also doesn't lead to any way to improve. After your game is balanced all-around, then start wobbling again. It's a phenomenal tool, but shouldn't be your only option.

Check Fly's guide for great information on the character. It's stickied in the IC forums.

 

[AscendantAquila]

Read these two guides
http://smashboards.com/threads/behind-wobbling-all-the-stuff-you-dont-see.340028/
http://smashboards.com/threads/ledge-chain-grabbing-the-handoff-faq.216589/
The first one details the fact that Wobbling can basically set up from any grab, provided you don't hesitate. The second guide is the ledge handoff which is incredibly useful (Use the search function to find a forum about using a metronome to time the handoff). Other than that, DThrow Dair chain grab can set up into it, but be careful because opponents can DI out of it. Tech chasing on certain characters is a reasonable set up for it.
(Sorry if I look new, I haven't posted on Smashboards for like 10 months and couldn't remember my account so I had to create a new account, and in that time I have switched to Fox)

 

[AscendantAquila]

Samwisely is also correct. Don't focus too much on Wobbling, realistically people are always looking for an IC to grab so getting a grab in a match can be tricky due to IC grab range. Focus on movement, desyncs, and overall fundamentals and matchups. Wobbling is basically just capitalizing on every grab you get plus most of the top ICs do well even if they don't wobble in sets.

 

[IC-Rambler]

Honestly I think it's fine to practice wobbling very early. I practiced the wobble very early because I was afraid that I might end up like Fly and would be pretty good but couldn't wobble, lol. Just make a conscious effort to not center your play around it, which honestly wasn't very hard for me since wobbling was wierd and playing the character like normal felt more naturally for me anyways. Read the guides of course, choknators guide for non-grab skills is espcially relevant.

 

[DerfMidWest]

You can learn wobbling early on, just focus more on the other stuff, because it's more important.
At lower levels, having a strong punish game alone will get you kinda far, but it's crucial to have more than just that to compete at a higher level, so try to set yourself up for that.

But really I just popped in here to reply to this:

DThrow Dair chain grab can set up into it, but be careful because opponents can DI out of it. Tech chasing on certain characters is a reasonable set up for it.

IC players, please please stop using dthrow dair to set up wobbles (I do it too because I'm bad and develop bad habits from playing other bad players). A lot of players will get into this habit if they don't have a clean grab to set up a wobble, and it straight doesn't work (that doesn't mean it won't work, it means that people are bad when they let it work).
It's sooo easy to get stuck with this habit, but ICs really need to focus on getting guaranteed setups rather than going for gimmicky escapable things like that, even though dthrow dair is often a viable combo tool and di mixup, but it's still something we need to use less.

That's all.

 

[AscendantAquila]

I completely agree with using the Dair setup less, I was just simply listing some of the ways to set it up because any okay player should be able to escape pretty easily. It has its time and place to be used but in all reality I think its very good to break the habit of constantly using it. DerfMW's ICs are a million times better, so you are probably better off listening to him over me because when I played ICs, I basically gimmicked my way through neutral and just looked for grabs. So basically don't be like me, and focus on learning how to play neutral and like Derf said go for more guaranteed options because the more ICs who are using more optimal and guaranteed tech the better and farther IC development and progression will go.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I definitely still think it's important to learn the dthrow dair stuff and some of the other CGs, because they are useful, and very difficult for some characters to escape, but they don't really work, so you just have to keep that in mind when you go for them.
On a lot of characters I will dthrow->dair and then look for the escape instead of the regrab, which is a more viable combo tool.

doing dthrow->dair as a wobble setup I agree with much less. It's a super lazy gimmicky way to set it up, and we all do it, but we should actually just go for real wobble setups instead.

 

[ArcDawn]

I definitely still think it's important to learn the dthrow dair stuff and some of the other CGs, because they are useful, and very difficult for some characters to escape, but they don't really work, so you just have to keep that in mind when you go for them.
On a lot of characters I will dthrow->dair and then look for the escape instead of the regrab, which is a more viable combo tool.

doing dthrow->dair as a wobble setup I agree with much less. It's a super lazy gimmicky way to set it up, and we all do it, but we should actually just go for real wobble setups instead.

What would be some wobble/grab setups aside from WD-> jab -> grab, desync -> blizzard -> grab , (DD)desync -> fsmash -> grab , or dthrow->dair mixup?
Despite the fact that wobbling shouldn't be the primary concern of newer climbers, I think it's important for us as climbers to know what options we have that's available to us and using it wisely when the situation is appropriate so that we can have more weapons in our arsenal in any given match.

 

[Samwisely]

What would be some wobble/grab setups aside from WD-> jab -> grab, desync -> blizzard -> grab , (DD)desync -> fsmash -> grab , or dthrow->dair mixup?

If we're pretending OP wasn't new, then yeah, some more complicated wobble setups are useful to have if your opponent is good at getting around the ones you listed.

All more situational, because they leave you open for punish, but dash attack leads into a grab frequently. If they're a character like Falcon, falco, or a platform camping fox, they need to come down eventually. If you have the read on when they'll drop, up-tilt is godly and drops them right into your grab range if they don't SDI correctly. Mix that up with angled hard-shield/light-shield, and poking up-airs (esp. if they miss the tech on the platform. Usually free-grab, almost always a punish of some sort), and you've got fairly strong anti-air game going on. Just don't get too predictable.

If you're able to get a grab, but Nana isn't in the right place for a wobble, I usually go for one of two options. Against fast-fallers, assuming she's still synced, I'll have Popo backthrow to Nana short-hop Ice Block. If they miss the tech or tech in place it usually jab resets them. Wavedash in and wobble away. If they tech in, wait and grab. Tech out, wavedash out and pressure. Most of your options there lead to wobble. Against floaties, see if you can stall for Nana to get there (or Dthrow), and have her uptilt or upsmash. Often this drops your opponent back into your grab, leading to a wobble. If it doesn't, at least they're above you and have to get down somehow.

 

[ArcDawn]

If we're pretending OP wasn't new, then yeah, some more complicated wobble setups are useful to have if your opponent is good at getting around the ones you listed.

All more situational, because they leave you open for punish, but dash attack leads into a grab frequently. If they're a character like Falcon, falco, or a platform camping fox, they need to come down eventually. If you have the read on when they'll drop, up-tilt is godly and drops them right into your grab range if they don't SDI correctly. Mix that up with angled hard-shield/light-shield, and poking up-airs (esp. if they miss the tech on the platform. Usually free-grab, almost always a punish of some sort), and you've got fairly strong anti-air game going on. Just don't get too predictable.

If you're able to get a grab, but Nana isn't in the right place for a wobble, I usually go for one of two options. Against fast-fallers, assuming she's still synced, I'll have Popo backthrow to Nana short-hop Ice Block. If they miss the tech or tech in place it usually jab resets them. Wavedash in and wobble away. If they tech in, wait and grab. Tech out, wavedash out and pressure. Most of your options there lead to wobble. Against floaties, see if you can stall for Nana to get there (or Dthrow), and have her uptilt or upsmash. Often this drops your opponent back into your grab, leading to a wobble. If it doesn't, at least they're above you and have to get down somehow.

haha the ice block one is fun. however, against fox I have a bit of trouble with getup shine. XP Should I just be grabbing earlier or what

 

[Wibbles]

haha the ice block one is fun. however, against fox I have a bit of trouble with getup shine. XP Should I just be grabbing earlier or what

Yeah, if you are getting shined you are grabbing too late.

 

[DerfMidWest]

What would be some wobble/grab setups aside from WD-> jab -> grab, desync -> blizzard -> grab , (DD)desync -> fsmash -> grab , or dthrow->dair mixup?
Despite the fact that wobbling shouldn't be the primary concern of newer climbers, I think it's important for us as climbers to know what options we have that's available to us and using it wisely when the situation is appropriate so that we can have more weapons in our arsenal in any given match.

wd->turnaround solo ftilt->nana jab->grab is a true combo at really low percent and leaves nana in a good position to start a wobble.
raw dthrow cg (and variants thereof) is(are) an effective set up on characters that it works on.
On FFers, at 0% wobbles has been doing dthrow->usmash->regrab on DI away.

there are a couple desyncs Tomber uses to get desynced grabs to wobble from 0% that he has talked about a bit around the boards.
I recommend just reading his guide here