Were Rosalina and Luma necessary?

[Kay kay]

I am really excited about them joining the game, as you can probably tell, they are a couple of my favorites. Although I hear a lot of people comparing her to Mario kart 8. People keep saying that she will be a pain because she is a heavy-weight character too tall, and that she should've stayed in Super Mario Galaxy. Also, their are lots of complaints about how she and Luma Will be to hard to control. What do you guys think about them? Are they right for the game?

 

[alex6309]

She's okay I guess, but I think she was just chosen because she was the character of the month(3D World & MK8) and the Devs just wanted to piggy back off her popularity.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think she was chosen for gameplay reasons more than anything. There aren't that many characters in Nintendo's stash that would be material for a puppeteer. They may have gotten the idea from Galaxy where the Luma serves as your motion controller. This means you were controlling two characters. They then applied that concept to Rosalina.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Not really, but as others have said, she was chosen for gameplay reasons. So I'm okay with it.

 

[NintenRob]

She is the Mario equivelant of Sheik. Very popular character from what is considered the greatest game in the seires to date.

Yes she should be playable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina pretty much deserved the playable opportunity, as Smash Bros. never had a puppeteer user before.

 

[Deleted member]

I say yes. The puppet character thing makes her more unique than Junior, Toad, or Waluigi could ever hope to be, and all the characters revealed thus far seem to be trying to explore new playstyles.

 

[Morbi]

She was indeed necessary from my perspective; as an advocate of more female characters (despite the fallacious nature of the demand), she was always a very ideal choice. Her competition was a redundant antagonist or a generic character with very little observable move-set potential. Luma is precisely what makes her "necessary" as that enables her to introduce a completely new play-style to Smash, unlike the other newcomers. Overall, she is one of the only great choices as of current.

 

[Ixbran]

Shes the only Mario character with a properly detailed back story and well developed personality, so from a character stand point she deserves to get in more than than Mario or Peach, who have little to no personality aside from "Maaaarrriiioooooo~!" and "Mama-mia!/Lets a'go!". At least Luigi and Bowser have proper personalities and can hold up on their own., Mario and Peach really cant do anything special without the other Merio characters around them.

As with Luigi and Bowser, Rosalina has a well defined personality that makes it easyer to make a moveset for. Shes calm, graceful, kind, generous, and motherly. So she comes off as calm and collected in battle, and she moves gracefully through the battlefield. That and with her mother/child relationship with the Lumas, of course they would want to help her out in battle, giving her something unique compared too the other characters.

Shes the most unique mario character to date, so of course she's going to get in. I'd have been surprised if she hadn't gotten in.

 

[HeroMystic]

Were any newcomers necessary? No, not really.

I personally never thought in a million years that Rosie would've been in a Smash game this soon, especially since we're already quite saturated with Mario characters. She's here though, and that makes me happy.

Also their complaints are pretty much false.

 

[Hong]

Well, as far as functionality is concerned, no. There are many characters who could have fulfilled the puppeteer fighting style, such as a Pokemon trainer. Rosalina was chosen over a number of characters who could have done the same thing. That said, this is a moot point, since any character can be made into an original fighter.

Is she deserving? Absolutely. She is a prominent character who represents a new era of the Mario franchise. There is a reason why lots of folks like me who don't like the Mario franchise yet they like Rosalina; she is an addition that, unlike someone like Toadette, was not just thrown together in a day. She breathed a lot of fresh air into the Mario franchise, and turned plenty of heads in her debut.

 

[sharazisspecial]

Well, as far as functionality is concerned, no. There are many characters who could have fulfilled the puppeteer fighting style, such as a Pokemon trainer. Rosalina was chosen over a number of characters who could have done the same thing. That said, this is a moot point, since any character can be made into an original fighter.

Is she deserving? Absolutely. She is a prominent character who represents a new era of the Mario franchise. There is a reason why lots of folks like me who don't like the Mario franchise yet they like Rosalina; she is an addition that, unlike someone like Toadette, was not just thrown together in a day. She breathed a lot of fresh air into the Mario franchise, and turned plenty of heads in her debut.

Pokemon trainer in brawl was not a puppeteer.
He would not suit a puppeteer style either. Since having the actual trainer do attacks or even be targetable would go against or undermine pokemon.

Though i agree that there were alot more potential puppeteers. But i think rosa was good choice since alot of the other mario characters are bland or redundant.

 

[Hong]

Pokemon trainer in brawl was not a puppeteer.
He would not suit a puppeteer style either. Since having the actual trainer do attacks or even be targetable would go against or undermine pokemon.

I would say it would suit a Pokemon trainer to be hitting people better than a fitness instructor. Many of the gym leaders are martial artists, swordsmen, psychics, etc. Game rules are almost never represented in Smash Bros.

 

[Garde Noir]

Is anyone really necessary? Nintendo could have just kept the same roster from SSB64, but that they chose to change it up is part of the reason we keep playing. Nintendo can choose whomever they want, it's not our position to judge, but only to play and enjoy ourselves...

 

[Reila]

They weren't. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling themselves. That said, the character is unique in both design and play style, so in the end, who cares?

 

[ChikoLad]

I hate this notion of some characters being "necessary". Something that is necessary is saying that it's required to make a game good. Most would probably be contempt with Smash Bros having just the main characters and villains of each represented franchise playable, and the series just expanding on represented franchises each installment, and throwing in iconic sidekicks like Luigi if they really need to. The roster would still be huge.

Smash Bros is a great game regardless of it's roster. That being said, is Rosalina necessary for me PERSONALLY? God yes. She restored my hype for the game when it was waning (due to certain pieces of information like a lack of a story mode), and she's my favourite Nintendo character (and one of my most favourite fictional characters in general) from one of my favourite games.

While Smash Bros is a fun game and a very competitively viable one, and that's part of the appeal, the fact that it has a bunch of characters I really like from many different franchises is why it's special. It always makes me think about how these characters would actually interact, which brings me endless fun when I'm not playing the game. The trailers for the newcomers also emphasise this, like how Kirby (one of my other personal favourites) becomes friendly with Rosalina & Luma.

I just think she made a lot more sense than Bowser.Jr, Toad, Waluigi, and Daisy, who are TRUE flavour of the month characters, and I've wanted Rosalina since the Brawl days. (Bowser.Jr had potential character development after Sunshine, but Nintendo squandered it and made him the 8th Koopaling, essentially. Bowser never really acknowledges Jr's existence after Sunshine, not even in Galaxy - maybe in the M&S Olympic games, but I don't know about those). Rosalina has grown and grown in popularity since her debut and she's never been ruined or squandered as a character, and continues to be very prominent in promotional material for the Mario games. She's even one of the alternate title screens in MK8, and she now has a baby form (which only happens to the popular/iconic Mario characters). And EVERYONE uses her online in MK8. I'm surprised when I have have a match that doesn't have 5 Rosalinas in it.

She's a really appealing character that deserves to stay in the spotlight as much as other characters, and quite frankly, she deserves her own franchise like Wario and Yoshi got.

 

[Ryan.]

I think her character is certainly unique enough to deserve a spot on the roster.

 

[Bootortle]

Just about any other Mario rep I would have preferred, whether it be Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, or something as outlandish as my favorite "Why would he be in" character, King Boo. However, she's a popular character, and has been in many games recently, so why not? The playstyle seems unique enough. Similar, but not the same as Ice Climbers or Olimar.

Spoiler

Wario or Yoshi should have been in 3D World instead, like a 64 DS reunion

 

[ChikoLad]

Wario or Yoshi should have been in 3D World instead, like a 64 DS reunion

Except for the fact that Rosalina is Nintendo EAD's baby, and the specific person who created her (well, he created her backstory anyway, I'm still unclear on how she was actually created), Yoshiaki Koizumi, is the current producer of the Mario franchise. In general, she's probably the only main series Mario character that isn't dictated by Miyamoto, and even if he disallowed the use of other Mario characters in Smash or any game, Rosalina was created by Nintendo EAD, so she's free from his grasp.

Rosalina will be first priority in any game by EAD since they created her, and can use her freely.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Was Rosalina and Luma necessary? Not at all.

Was Rosalina and Luma necessary because they wanted a more pure puppet master archetype of character? Not particularly.

What people seem to forget is that Ice Climbers whole gameplay archetype was puppet master. You control Popo, but Nana does her best to follow your every input. What difference is there with Rosalina and Luma? Very, very little, besides the fact that you have slightly more control over your puppet and you can resummon it when it dies. She's essentially Ice Climbers Lite.

Sorry Rosalina lovers, but at this juncture, Rosalina was chosen only for convenience and little else. Worse still is that Ice Climbers will still be the kings of their archetype.

 

[ChikoLad]

Was Rosalina and Luma necessary because they wanted a more pure puppet master archetype of character? Not particularly.

What people seem to forget is that Ice Climbers whole gameplay archetype was puppet master. You control Popo, but Nana does her best to follow your every input. What difference is there with Rosalina and Luma? Very, very little, besides the fact that you have slightly more control over your puppet and you can resummon it when it dies. She's essentially Ice Climbers Lite.

Sorry Rosalina lovers, but at this juncture, Rosalina was chosen only for convenience and little else. Worse still is that Ice Climbers will still be the kings of their archetype.

Eh, no.

Ice Climbers is just controlling two identical characters at once, or a "dual partners" archetype. You make an input, and the partner performs the same one, with a delay. There are Brawl hacks that allow you to play pretty much any character like they are the Ice Climbers. It's not a puppet relation, you literally just have an extra person dealing your hits. And Ice Climbers are useless as soon if the partner one gets knocked out.

Rosalina has a puppet with it's own separate moveset. The only moves of Rosalina that are gimped without Luma are Luma Shot and Star Bits (as far as we know, I've never seen what happens when Star Bits is used without Luma in play). Rosalina is otherwise completely solid as a stand alone fighter, unlike either of the Ice Climbers, who are only useful when together. Luma also has a unique health system, in the sense that it can be KO'd without being launched off-stage (but launching it off-stage still KO's it). Luma does not directly head back to Rosalina unless prompted (and even when it is prompted, it literally just flies straight back, rather than struggling it's way across the terrain). When you launch it out, it will wander independently, bounding up and down towards Rosalina's general direction meaning it can catch out anyone who passes that general direction. Basically, anywhere between Rosalina and Luma is a danger zone, since wandering near Luma could get you caught in a combo that Rosalina can follow up on, but edging towards Rosalina means she can call Luma back at an instant and buff the strength of her attacks, and use the Luma as a shield.

Also, even if what you thought was true:

"Rosalina was chosen only for convenience and little else."

This statement makes no sense at all, because if they already had a character that filled a partner role, wouldn't they just use them rather than making a new model and AI system for the new partner set up?

 

[Sobreviviente]

People seem to miss that rossy is actually one of the most important mario characters of all times in pair of wario...

She is just new, give her one more gen and people will say "woah were we actually considering bowser jr over her? xD"

 

[SethTheMage]

Since you put this on the Rosalina and Luma board, you're probably going to get biased results.

For me, I think that at the very least, the Galaxy games really deserve some representation, outside of just a stage. In my opinion, they completely changed the 3D platforming genre by playing with gravity physics, and they were some of the most beautiful games that Nintendo has made in the last decade. In that vein, I think Rosalina and Luma are necessary because they give the Galaxy games additional representation.

Additionally, they have a unique gimmick that Smash has never seen before: a puppetmaster. Sakurai has been adding plenty of newcomers that have very unique playstyles this time around, and Rosalina and Luma will probably make the metagame of Smash 4 interesting.

As far as the characters themselves being necessary, that's up for debate. But, in my opinion, they are necessary because of their gimmick, and the fact that they represent some of Mario's arguably best games.

 

[Nstinct]

I feel Rosalina and Luma are necessary because Nintendo needed a new Mushroom Kingdom character. Rosalina offers unique abilities that Nintendo would want to use to create a very new character.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Eh, no.

Ice Climbers is just controlling two identical characters at once, or a "dual partners" archetype. You make an input, and the partner performs the same one, with a delay. There are Brawl hacks that allow you to play pretty much any character like they are the Ice Climbers. It's not a puppet relation, you literally just have an extra person dealing your hits. And Ice Climbers are useless as soon if the partner one gets knocked out.

Snip.

You press the A button to attack as Rosalina.

The Luma attacks with you.

There's literally no difference between Rosalina and Luma and Ice Climbers in that regard. You're complicating things for the sake of making Rosalina seem more interesting and unique than she really is. One of the only unique aspects to her is, again, the fact that you can desynch the Luma from Rosalina without resorting to complicated techniques. Does the Luma has its own unique moveset? Yeah, sure, she's got that going for her at least, but I guarantee you that someone will find a way to get around Luma in a way that essentially forces Rosalina players to have the Luma with them at all times. I figure about six or seven months tops, and that's being really generous.

Rosalina was chosen purely for convenience because Sakurai thought he wasn't done with the archetype, and he wasn't. Rosalina is a good spin on Ice Climbers, but she really didn't need to be in the game.

Sorry, man, but I see the forest for the trees. You can justify Rosalina's inclusion all you want, but stick her character into a pot of water on the stove and that's all she boils down to: Ice Climbers Lite.

 

[ChikoLad]

You press the A button to attack as Rosalina.

The Luma attacks with you.

There's literally no difference between Rosalina and Luma and Ice Climbers in that regard. You're complicating things for the sake of making Rosalina seem more interesting and unique than she really is. One of the only unique aspects to her is, again, the fact that you can desynch the Luma from Rosalina without resorting to complicated techniques. Does the Luma has its own unique moveset? Yeah, sure, she's got that going for her at least, but I guarantee you that someone will find a way to get around Luma in a way that essentially forces Rosalina players to have the Luma with them at all times. I figure about six or seven months tops, and that's being really generous.

Rosalina was chosen purely for convenience because Sakurai thought he wasn't done with the archetype, and he wasn't. Rosalina is a good spin on Ice Climbers, but she really didn't need to be in the game.

Sorry, man, but I see the forest for the trees. You can justify Rosalina's inclusion all you want, but stick her character into a pot of water on the stove and that's all she boils down to: Ice Climbers Lite.

The fact that you literally have to go out of your way to ignore crucial aspects of Rosalina's play style to try and validate your point proves how wrong it is. Like, you literally acknowledged them and said "LETS JUST IGNORE THEM BECAUSE WITHOUT THOSE THINGS SHES ICE CLIMBERS LITE" right after. What?

Also, that "press A button and both characters attack" comparision means literally nothing. Observe:

You press A with Mario, his jab is a punch.
You press A with Sonic, his jab is a punch.

MAYRO AND SANIC ARE OBVIOUSLY CLONES, WAKE UP AMERICA

AND IT DOESN'T JUST STOP THERE

FOX DOES IT
KIRBY DOES IT
DONKEY KONG DOES IT

EVERYONE IS A CLONE OF MAYRO THIS GAME IS JUST ONE CHARACTER WITH A BUNCH OF RE SKINS

.....See how ridiculous your way of looking at Rosalina is when applied to other characters? Yeah, it's no less ridiculous when applied to Rosalina.

You can try to find arbitrary ways to de-value the character as much as you want, be it from a moveset, reputation, or actual writing standpoint, but she's an objectively valid addition on all fronts. I am not complicating anything more than it naturally is.

 

[Xavier :D]

Rosalina is the queen of the FREAKING GALAXY. OF COURSE SHE WAS NECESSARY.SHE CAN DO THIS.

Seriously, though. Any character is "necessary" because Sakurai said they were. Simple as that, none of us are on the dev-team, so we can't say otherwise...But, I am pretty bias when it comes to Rosalina, and I honestly think she is the most unique newcomer, imo.

 

[Super Writer]

Really, except for Earthbound and F-Zero reps, considering all of the A-list characters are present, anyone below is kind of unecessary, but nice to have. 64 didn't need Jigglypuff, Melee didn't need Falco, Brawl didn't need to have Ike, and Sm4sh doesn't need Rosalina, but their inclusions aren't problems because the games already had the line up they need in the first place, so the roster gets fluffed out a bit with B-List characters in order to add more variety to it. Add in the fact that every character has fans, and you really can't go wrong. Even I'll admit, I liked Dr. Mario in Melee, even if he was the least necessary character of them all.

Also just saying, about the Rosalina = Ice Climbers lite argument... It's not really that valid. Donkey Kong and Bowser are both slower heavy hitters, use spin attacks to recover, have specials that cover a large portion of the ground and have irregular grabbing techniques (Donkey Kong's grab and walk and Bowser's Flying Slam). Yet they are so very different. Actually thinking about it, in Brawl Lucas was my best character, yet I was horrible with Ness. Same applies for Ganondorf and Captain Falcon.

Long story short, sharing some similarities doesn't really make one a "lite" version of the other. Except Mario's lite to Dr. Mario.

 

[ChikoLad]

I feel like Rosalina is the only fully unique newcomer.

Every other character doesn't necessarily bring a whole new style or archetype to the table. They bring a very unique take on existing ones, but they are easily comparable to other characters of that archetype.

Rosalina, however, brings the puppet master style to Smash, which we have not had before. She will not play like any other character on the roster. And even if there is another newcomer with that style, Rosalina will be the one to have introduced it to us.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Why does the one character I was a quiet closet supporter of have to have some of the most johning from people post-confirmation? @_@

 

[ChunkyBeef]

You can try to find arbitrary ways to de-value the character as much as you want, be it from a moveset, reputation, or actual writing standpoint, but she's an objectively valid addition on all fronts. I am not complicating anything more than it naturally is.

Way to completely miss the point, but I guess that's to be expected of the guy with a Rosalina avatar in a Rosalina topic on the Rosalina forum.

You know I'm right, which explains why you're so defensive and coming up with silly arguments. It's fine. I understand. You love Rosalina. Good for you.

I'm not trying to 'devalue' the character, I'm pointing out the obvious. Whether or not you choose to ignore that 'cause Rosalina is Rosalina is your problem, not mine.

 

[ChikoLad]

Way to completely miss the point, but I guess that's to be expected of the guy with a Rosalina avatar in a Rosalina topic on the Rosalina forum.

You know I'm right, which explains why you're so defensive and coming up with silly arguments. It's fine. I understand. You love Rosalina. Good for you.

I'm not trying to 'devalue' the character, I'm pointing out the obvious. Whether or not you choose to ignore that 'cause Rosalina is Rosalina is your problem, not mine.

Now you're literally just telling me "I'm right and you're wrong" without trying to back it up.

You can blame my avatars all you want, but at the end of the day, filtering out facts for the sake of making your argument sound more plausible does not a good argument make. No matter what the subject is. It's outright delusional, because you are literally ignoring the reality of the situation so things sound prettier to you.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Objectively speaking, majority of the characters outside most of those introduced in Smash 64 were not "necessary" to begin with. Even the more popular requested candidates (some of whom I support) aren't really necessary either, from an unbiased standpoint. Does that mean they shouldn't be added or that Rosalina shouldn't of been?

More relevant, was this thread necessary? Have any of the other newcomers or veterans gotten a thread like this questioning their 'necessity' ? If not, I should totally make topics asking if Zero Suit Samus, etc. was necessary, just to start some ****.

For real though, I don't see much reason for this topic to even exist other than for some to make johns about Rosalina's inclusion and/or to put some of her fans in a defensive situation.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

As long as the discussions remain clean, this thread can stick around.

 

[ChikoLad]

More relevant, was this thread necessary? Have any of the other newcomers or veterans gotten a thread like this questioning their 'necessity' ? If not, I should totally make topics asking if Zero Suit Samus, etc. was necessary, just to start some ****.

http://smashboards.com/threads/kid-icarus-rep-necessary.358482/

http://smashboards.com/threads/why-was-greninja-chosen-over-the-other-starters.352111/

 

[Gravitational23]

The Mario galaxy games needed to be represented in some way and they have which is good. Rosalina was a major part in galaxy so I say she was necessary.

 

[SmashShadow]

More relevant, was this thread necessary? Have any of the other newcomers or veterans gotten a thread like this questioning their 'necessity' ?

Actually Palutena got the exact same thread.
http://smashboards.com/threads/kid-icarus-rep-necessary.358482/

As far as Rosalina goes I don't think she was necessary. She's only appeared in a small handful of games in a series that dishes out 4-5 games every year and is also the oldest Nintendo series. Yes, she represents the galaxy games, yes she brings something new to the table, and yes Mario was due another rep. But looking at other contenders:

Toad: Been in the series for about 20 years and was playable multiple times
Bowser Junior: Since 2002 has been in over 20 roles, is the secondary antagonist to Bowser, and can also represent Galaxy
Waluigi: Uhh... admittedly I don't think he's more important than Rosalina but he had a much stronger fanbase
Paper Mario: Has the entire paper mechanic and could represent the Paper Mario side of the series

All, except maybe one have resumes that exceed hers so she wasn't necessary from an importance standpoint and from a popularity standpoint she was probably the 5th most requested. One has to assume that the main reason she was chosen was to represent the Galaxy games and the fact that she was more unique than Bowser Junior. Honestly though, no Mario newcomer would've been necessary because there was always an acceptable alternate.

 

[ChikoLad]

Actually Palutena got the exact same thread.
http://smashboards.com/threads/kid-icarus-rep-necessary.358482/

As far as Rosalina goes I don't think she was necessary. She's only appeared in a small handful of games in a series that dishes out 4-5 games every year and is also the oldest Nintendo series. Yes, she represents the galaxy games, yes she brings something new to the table, and yes Mario was due another rep. But looking at other contenders:

Toad: Been in the series for about 20 years and was playable multiple times
Bowser Junior: Since 2002 has been in over 20 roles, is the secondary antagonist to Bowser, and can also represent Galaxy
Waluigi: Uhh... admittedly I don't think he's more important than Rosalina but he had a much stronger fanbase
Paper Mario: Has the entire paper mechanic and could represent the Paper Mario side of the series

All, except maybe one have resumes that exceed hers so she wasn't necessary from an importance standpoint and from a popularity standpoint she was probably the 5th most requested. One has to assume that the main reason she was chosen was to represent the Galaxy games and the fact that she was more unique than Bowser Junior. Honestly though, no Mario newcomer would've been necessary because there was always an acceptable alternate.

Seniority =/= importance, nor does game count, especially in a franchise that puts a bunch of characters in every spin off.

If Rosalina isn't necessary (which she isn't), none of the other characters you listed are.

 

[SmashShadow]

Seniority =/= importance, nor does game count, especially in a franchise that puts a bunch of characters in every spin off.

If Rosalina isn't necessary (which she isn't), none of the other characters you listed are.

Did you not read the last sentence?

edit: Also, when those characters have multiple important roles of which both Toad and BJ do then they do equal importance. Toad has been playable 4 times I believe and Bowser Junior has been a main boss once in his own personal 3D game, a co-final boss at least twice, and several regular boss roles.

 

[Super Writer]

Honestly though, no Mario newcomer would've been necessary because there was always an acceptable alternate.

There is so much truth in this one sentence. I think a lot of people who feel entitled to have their favorite characters appear need to really consider just that.