Villains in Smash 4

[Neanderthal]

The big elephant in the room to those who have accepted the leaked roster.
Where are the all villains?

Most of the top requested characters this time were villains.
Despite this, amazingly out of around 15 new movesets there is an aggregate of exactly 0 more villains than we had in Brawl!

That number is only reached by the inclusion of Baby Bowser, who is really just a cute knock off of a villain.
On the other hand we lost Wolf.

Dark Pit seems like a desperate attempt to rectify this, but given his positioning next to pure non-Luigified clones Lucina and Doc Mario, appears to be little more than a skin change from Pit.

The bad guys really did lose this time.





IMO Sakurai has been having too much fun just trying to shock people with his character reveals, that he neglected to cater to a huge portion of fans (as shown by the polls) who are attracted to villain characters.

5 new WTF character movesets is really over the top (WFT, DHD & 3xMii).

Love what Sakurai has done for the franchise, but I hope he is not in charge of Smash 5 so that we can have someone making decisions based on what's good for the game, rather than boosting their ego by being mr unpredictible.

(Also would be nice to have someone speed up the gameplay and focus more on balancing that Sakurai seems to do).

Thoughts?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yeah, that's disappointing. I'm still hoping that the other rumors of Mewtwo and Ridley (&c.) are true so we can boost the number of villains by 2 (3 if Wolf decides to make a reappearance as DLC).

It's still an improvement over SSB64 and SSBM, which semeed like the battles of the good guys only. I've always wanted to have a 4-way all-villain smackdown, but in Brawl, I only had Bowser, Wolf, and Ganon. DDD, MK, and Wario didn't really fit due to their 'anti-villain' statuses. From what I understand, DP is also not a true antagonist.

I also don't really know, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Japanese fanbase goes more for the cutesy protagonists, and the villain fans (particularly for the realistic series) are mor in the west. Sakurai has always been catering more to the Japanese fanbase, for obvious reasons.

I think he's great at making a good game, he just may want to get another person on the character planning committee who has an idea of what people outside Japan want.

But like I said at the beginning, Mewtwo and Ridley were very highly requested. Mewtwo caused a massive fan uproar after his cut in Brawl, and Ridley has been teased without being overtly named for a year. There's still a non-zero chance of the two of them showing up. After all, knowing the fan requests for those two alone, if I were Sakurai I'd prioritize them because Nintendo really wants to sell WiiU's more than anything else. But this is Sakurai, so anything is possible.

 

[Cpt.]

We haven't lost Wolf or Ganondorf. I would be VERY surprised if they did not return. Ridley is still 50/50. K. Rool has a shot as does Mewtwo. Remember the spoiled roster is not a final so our villains can still crush the heroes!

Still hoping for classic Ganon of course, but who knows.

As for Dark PIt, I wouldn't trash talk him yet. I men sure he looks like a clone, but look at Dark Samus who is waaaaay different. Speaking of Damus, y is it an AT???? WHY???????? Anyway....... ..... yeah I mean we don't really know anything about Dark Pit yet so don't hate yet.

 

[Neanderthal]

Hope you're right.
I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that the leaked roster isn't complete?
The leaks for Melee and Brawl around this time before release were complete.
I can't see anything different here. Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Bowser Jr has the koopalings as alts so...

8 more villains in one ?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The loss of Wolf sucks, and while Bowser Jr is a cool inclusion from a villain perspective (first time it isn't a main villain, but more like a henchman) it ends up evening out. K. Rool is pretty much off the chart at this point, so all we villain lovers can hope for is Ridley. As far as I'm concerned Dark Pit and Mewtwo aren't real villains.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

Dark Pit seems like a desperate attempt to rectify this, but given his positioning next to pure non-Luigified clones Lucina and Doc Mario, appears to be little more than a skin change from Pit.

I doubt you have played KI:U then, because Dark Pit is hardly a villain in uprising.
The main problem is (for me at least) is that Nintendo don't have many great villains to pick from. Most of them are either one off bad guys, generic boss monsters or are just unmemorable. I think it would have been nice to see Ridley playable but apart from that I don't know any overly interesting choices that they could have made for other picks.

 

[Raetah]

Well, we have Hitler Mii Fighter. Does that count?

 

[Neanderthal]

I doubt you have played KI:U then, because Dark Pit is hardly a villain in uprising.
The main problem is (for me at least) is that Nintendo don't have many great villains to pick from. Most of them are either one off bad guys, generic boss monsters or are just unmemorable. I think it would have been nice to see Ridley playable but apart from that I don't know any overly interesting choices that they could have made for other picks.

No I haven't played any KI.

Alot of people would disagreee with you that Nintendo lacks villains. Evidenced by the fact that most of the top 5 highest requested characters were villains.
Authentic Ganondorf would be a nice addition too.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Still hope for Ridley and K. Rool at least, those are the two who I really want.

 

[Maxoxpower]

I doubt you have played KI:U then, because Dark Pit is hardly a villain in uprising.
The main problem is (for me at least) is that Nintendo don't have many great villains to pick from. Most of them are either one off bad guys, generic boss monsters or are just unmemorable. I think it would have been nice to see Ridley playable but apart from that I don't know any overly interesting choices that they could have made for other picks.

Sorry but it's easy, keep wolf, add bowser JR. King k.rool, ridley ( maybe mewtwo) and maybe one that a don't know and you got a better vilain roster...

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Sorry but it's easy, keep wolf, add bowser JR. King k.rool, ridley ( maybe mewtwo) and maybe one that a don't know and you got a better vilain roster...

Agreed.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Sorry but it's easy, keep wolf, add bowser JR. King k.rool, ridley ( maybe mewtwo) and maybe one that a don't know and you got a better vilain roster...

King Boo from Luigi's Mansion 2.
Not enough MARIO CHARACTERS !

 

[Arcadenik]

Salty much?

People made the same arguments for female characters after Brawl came out... all you have to do is replace all "villain" words with "female" words.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Salty much?

People made the same arguments for female characters after Brawl came out... all you have to do is replace all "villain" words with "female" words.

Actually I understand.
Villains are important ; they are, after all, people we fight against in videogames. And, while we got many of them in past games (Bowser, Ganondorf, Wario, DeDeDe, Meta-Knight, Wolf, Mewtwo (to make it bigger)), only five of them remain, and even in the five guys, Wario, DeDeDe and MK are not true villains, and we can argue about Wolf and Mewtwo even if they are not in. Bowser and Ganondorf would be the only bad guys (and even Bowser is problematic, but now it's starting to get low so let's leave him as evil).
We would get Bowser Jr as a true villain (and again, it's arguable), Dark Pit an anti-hero, and Duck Hunt at Wario's level.
However, Bowser Jr. has 7 alt, so it gives many villains... :-D

Yeah, I think it's not too much asking for 1 or 2 more villains not from Mario. We got our females, so just one or two more villains Sakurai please... (Counting Mewtwo as one, else I don't see any other candidates except K. Rool and Ridley).

But I hope it's not over.

 

[Hot Uncle Sparky]

Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Ganondorf
King Dedede
Meta Knight (more like a boss, but he still had a moment)
Wario
Dark Pit
Duck Hunt Dog (can be considered one)

And that's just the playable characters

Looks fine to me, just because villains don't take up a third of the roster, doesn't mean they're getting screwed over.

 

[Neanderthal]

Salty much?

People made the same arguments for female characters after Brawl came out... all you have to do is replace all "villain" words with "female" words.

Hellz yeah we salty.
The demographic who are drawn to villain character types have been neglected. I think it's reasonable to be a little salty if you fall into that demographic.

 

[Deleted member]

We might be getting the single most evil character in all of gaming, the Duck Hunt Dog, and people are still complaining about villains?

 

[Neanderthal]

Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Ganondorf
King Dedede
Meta Knight (more like a boss, but he still had a moment)
Wario
Dark Pit
Duck Hunt Dog (can be considered one)

Looks fine to me, just because villains don't take up a third of the roster, doesn't mean they're getting screwed over.

This post doesn't really warrant a real response after naming Duck Hunt a villain.

The problem some of us have is that out of 15ish new movesets there's an aggregate of 0 new villains in Smash 4 despite 3/5 of the most requested characters being villains.

We might be getting the single most evil character in all of gaming, the Duck Hunt Dog, and people are still complaining about villains?

 

[Deleted member]

This post doesn't really warrant a real response after naming Duck Hunt a villain.

The problem some people have is that there's an aggregate of 0 new villains in Smash 4 despite 3/5 of the most requested characters being villains.

Uh...

Most of us are joking when we call Duck Hunt Dog a villain. Some of us (myself not included) like to see him as an antagonist due to his laughing at the player if they fail to shoot a duck.

 

[Arcadenik]

0 new villains? Oh, I didn't know Bowser Jr. was one of the good guys.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

This post doesn't really warrant a real response after naming Duck Hunt a villain.

The problem some people have is that out of 15ish new movesets there's an aggregate of 0 new villains in Smash 4 despite 3/5 of the most requested characters being villains.

Bowser Jr is villain tho. Not the most requested, but he is one.

 

[Hot Uncle Sparky]

This post doesn't really warrant a real response after naming Duck Hunt a villain.

The problem some people have is that there's an aggregate of 0 new villains in Smash 4 despite 3/5 of the most requested characters being villains.

Assuming the leak is real (which it... kinda is), we have Bowser Jr. and Not Pit as new villains, and Duck Hunt Dog? he may not do anything evil, but ask any old timer about him and you'll get "oh that f*cking dog" being engraved into history as the little turd who kept laughing at you, is a pretty good excuse to list him with the jerks of Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Bowser Jr is villain tho. Not the most requested, but he is one.

He's counting Wolf as -1 so it totals to 0, even if Wolf truly being evil is debatable. In regards to the people who complain, I have this to say;

But maybe I care more about how characters play rather than who they are.

Assuming the leak is real (which it... kinda is), we have Bowser Jr. and Not Pit as new villains, and Duck Hunt Dog? he may not do anything evil, but ask any old timer about him and you'll get "oh that f*cking dog" being engraved into history as the little turd who kept laughing at you, is a pretty good excuse to list him with the jerks of Smash.

Dark Pit isn't a villain though.

 

[RamOne]

Everybody forgets about Robin.

Spoiler

 

[Neanderthal]

Uh...

Most of us are joking when we call Duck Hunt Dog a villain. Some of us (myself not included) like to see him as an antagonist due to his laughing at the player if they fail to shoot a duck.

I know. That's why I liked your post and did the laughing icon as a response

Sparky on the other hand was being serious.

Bowser Jr is villain tho. Not the most requested, but he is one.

0 new villains? Oh, I didn't know Bowser Jr. was one of the good guys.

Re-read my post guys, I said aggregate. As in BJr - Wolf = 0

 

[Megadoomer]

This is a large part of the reason why I'm hoping that the rumour about the last four characters being Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, and the Chorus Kids is legitimate. (Mewtwo might be questionable, but he's generally treated as being one of the most violent Pokemon, and other Pokedex descriptions make him similar to Akuma from Street Fighter in my eyes)

Aside from the sheer number of unique veterans that were removed (losing one between Melee and Brawl was bad enough; did we really need to lose six?), a lack of villains is my biggest gripe with the roster that we have now (as it was with Brawl's roster) - Nintendo has dozens of unique and interesting villains, and Smash Bros. is the perfect opportunity to show that, but the development team doesn't seem to be taking advantage of this.

Hopefully we get Ridley and Mewtwo; it would at least go to show that a large portion of the fanbase isn't being ignored. (Besides, if Dr. Mario returns and Mewtwo doesn't, I'd seriously have to question Sakurai's priorities more than I already do with this Dark Pit nonsense)

 

[Cpt.]

Hope you're right.
I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that the leaked roster isn't complete?
The leaks for Melee and Brawl around this time before release were complete.
I can't see anything different here. Unless I'm missing something?

A lot of the characters are not with their series. This is something that only happens with an incomplete roster, there for the villains are coming!

 

[Zzuxon]

Are you implying the Duck Hunt Dog isn't evil?

 

[Neanderthal]

A lot of the characters are not with their series. This is something that only happens with an incomplete roster, there for the villains are coming!

It's pretty well established that it's only characters who are pure clones who are seperated (Frowning Pit, Doc and Lucina). That's just the new roster order norm.

 

[Cpt.]

It's pretty well established that it's only characters who are pure clones who are seperated (Frowning Pit, Doc and Lucina). That's just the new roster order norm.

Well just doesn't make any sense to me since Melee is the only game with clones and that had clones right next to their series.

 

[FalKoopa]

To be completely honest... I feel the quota for villains is a fan-made criterion. Being a villain isn't exactly a perk which is supposed to increase your chances. I don't support K. Rool or Ridley because they are villains, I support them because of their moveset potential.

As for why villains got the short end of the stick this time, it is because of the focus on newer and smaller series, and obviously the hero is going to appear before the villain. Though all said, it does feel unfair to K. Rool and Ridley because they were so commonly requested.

 

[Maxoxpower]

To be completely honest... I feel the quota for villains is a fan-made criterion. Being a villain isn't exactly a perk which is supposed to increase your chances

i want villains
I support k.rool /ridley for the potential.... however, i'm not supporting DARK PIT for his clone/bias attribute.
and im sure im not the only one

EDIT: in LOOOOVE with bowser JR!

 

[Megadoomer]

I can't really count Dark Pit as a villain - I'm not very far in Kid Icarus Uprising (just beat Viridi's minion on the fake moon), but he strikes me as being like the symbiote-possessed Peter Parker from Spider-Man 3 - Pit's such a goody-two-shoes that an evil version of him (Dark Pit) is a jerk at worst, but that's about the extent of it. In my opinion, he's less of a villain than Wario, Meta Knight, or Dedede.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Skip villains, this game needed a heavy weight newcomer more than anything.

It's a shame Sakurai could've easily killed two birds in one stone with just one character... King K.Rool.

Characters who are light weight for certain are:



And these might at best be slightly above Mario but still below Link:



King K.Rool and Ridley would've been nice, but no real actual heavy weight newcomers hurts the game more I feel.

 

[johno1995]

I will never understand why "We need villains" = Mewtwo.

Mewtwo is not a villain. Never was. And don't even count the anime - he was a misunderstood product of an experiment, not a "villain".

 

[BluePikmin11]

More villains are fanmade criteria, there's honestly no such thing as it to be honest, I really don't know how it became a popular theory for speculation here, because to me, only villains who have true general recognizability outside of the Smash community like Bowser Jr. have the merit of being in.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Not to say that DP is biased, but this is slightly annoying. Just thinking about every character's 'evil side'

Dark Link. First appearance: The Adventure of Link, 1987
Fate in SSB4: Alt Costume

Source: http://minus.com/mbe8xcoiWXqGab

Blood Falcon. First appearance: F-Zero, 1998
Fate in SSB4: Unknown, but most likely alt costume

Dark Samus. First appearance: Metroid Prime, 2002
Fate in SSB4: Assist Trophy

Dark Pit. First Appearnce: Kid Icarus Uprising, 2012 (or SSBB as an alt costume, if you prefer, 2007)
Fate in SSB4: Full character?!

 

[WRJersey]

vil·lain
noun
1. (in a film, novel, or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot
By this criteria alone I'd classify at least Wolf and Mewtwo as villains.
Regardless, we really need Sakurai to pump out a hype Villain trailer.

 

[johno1995]

vil·lain
noun
1. (in a film, novel, or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot
By this criteria alone I'd classify at least Wolf and Mewtwo as villains.

Smash is based on the Pokemon games, where Mewtwo's never had evil actions or motives.