Variations on initial dash desync

[shuall]

This seems like it could be useful and I haven't seen it anywhere yet. In the desync guide there is a desync where you dash and press a, popo will dash attack and nana will fsmash. Cool, but popo will be stuck in dash attack, and it doesn't seem to combo well for me (dash attack -> fsmash? maybe more like covering options then comboing?).

Double-Stick Desync
If you dash backwards and hit c-stick either direction, nana will fsmash, and popo will just dash. So you can dash away, nana fsmash, and dash back. It seem useful with WD towards someone, dash away, nana fsmash them, then dash back and follow up. I can do this pretty consistently on my own, I haven't tried it in tournament yet. I also can't seem to get it when dashing forward, only when dashing backwards. You can charge it by holding z or a, but that will also cause popo to grab/dash attack.

If you do the same motions with down or up, popo will smash and nana will dash. It's less useful, since nana seems to only dash attack, or dash grab, but is still a mixup on someone's shield. You can also just wait the split second for nana to get her bearings and, while popo is still in endlag, start other desyncs.
EDIT: You can get nana to do a slight dash forward to blizzard out of this (timing and distance similar to a real fast DD blizzard). I think DD blizzard still has it's merits, but I'm going to try using this as my goto blizzard startup for a while and see how I like it.

Running Blizzard
The other thing that seems much harder, EDIT(@ T tauKhan says no)and I think it might be possible with a forward dash, but I don't know, is dashing and blizzarding. Most of the time it does a double blizzard, but sometimes I've gotten just nana to blizzard. No dashdance, just the initial dash, then blizzard. I can't get it anywhere near consistently though. Only times I've gotten it are from dash backwards. Sometimes I think I see wobbles or fly doing this, but they might be really fast dashdance desyncs.

EDIT: managed to get this in tournament, wd forward -> dash away/nana fsmash forward -> dash back grab (out of fsmash). Kind of cool. I'll see if they got it on stream.

 

[DerfMidWest]

this is kind old.
but it's good to think about it.
usually the dashattack->fsmash is used to just cover space.

I really like to pivot boost grab near the ledge when I read a neutral getup or a roll, because popo will boost grab and nana will just fsmash (if you hold A it charges)

DD desyncs and initial dash desyncs are some of the most useful tools you have.
Remember that popo can't crouch in initial dash, so you can dash cancel into any move during the animation and do it with just nana.
I like DD usmashes and utilts a lot.
As well as your standard blizzard/iceblock

But with the DD, it just gives you a bigger window, anytime you initial dash you can do it.
Or pivot, a lot of what you are seeing is probably a pivot desync.

I suggest watching this old video wobbles made, it shows a lot of what you are talking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV3QNpesRYo

 

[shuall]

Ha, I've never seen that video, but a lot of that stuff in the second half is just random tech I figured out on my own and practice to waste time (can't get any of it near as consistently as wobbles though). You can do the edge sharing off a squall hammer as well. Thanks. The first half seems useful, and is stuff I didn't know about.

I think what I'm talking about is slightly different. I assume "Defender" (1:52) is what you're referencing. I'm talking about a no setup, immediate nana fsmash (only fsmash, no upsmash or dsmash) from standstill (or walk) with popo free to anything. So, even faster than a pivot desync smash, and leaves you with control of popo instead of nana. Also, from what I can tell, it has to be turnaround. May not be useful, but it sounds different from the other stuff you talk about, because the desync comes from the turnaround, kind of like the reverse ftilt desync.

http://youtu.be/TM4mHKXpJI4?t=10s I don't know if you can see it. Or if it's any more useful than the dashdance desyncs.

Don't know about the single blizzard one, but that also doesn't require confusing nana with dash dance, it's just an initial dash forward, then, at the end of the dash, only nana blizzard. Unfortunately, it's much harder than a dash dance nana blizzard, and isn't any more useful than that.

 

[DerfMidWest]

looks like a variation of a pivot to me.

 

[shuall]

That's fair, it may not be any more useful than that. I'll keep working on it. I realized I can get a wd popo dsmash after it as well.

EDIT: It also seems to be my original assumption, instead of a popo pivot, it's a variant of Dash Attack Nana Fsmash (DANF), but with more options. Maybe "Turn Around Nana Fsmash" (TANF)?

 

[shuall]

Another update (will update main post):

Doing a dsmash or upsmash timed almost the same will result in popo smashing and nana dashing (opposite of fsmashes). I can only get nana to dash attack, grab, or wavedash without any inputs out of her dash, but I could just not be fast enough. You can hold down on cstick, back on stick, and z to dash grab with nana and charge dsmash with popo. Still trying to find applications, but as far as I know, this is the fastest way to get a desynced smash attack out of a standstill or wavedash.

 

[tauKhan]

@ shuall The running blizzard desynch works only out of dash back. The basic reason is the same as with dd desynchs: nana cannot smash turn (pivot out of dash) but instead immediately changes orientation. This means that if you dash back, popo will spend 1 frame in smash turn before dashing, while nana will dash forward as soon as she receives the input (I've heard this is 6 frames later, don't know myself.) This means that the sync of the climbers is offset by 1 frame, so you can input nana dash cancel blizzard on the last frame that popo can't do it. You can also wait for the dash to end and ice block on the last frame of popo's dash, which means that by the time nana reads the input her dash has ended and she can ice block. Note that these are both frame perfect techs, and pretty hard to do, I don't think they are very applicable.