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~Tome of The Dragmire~ v1.5

Discussion in 'Ganondorf' started by ~Shin~, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    ~Tome of The Dragmire~
    [​IMG]
    -A Brawl Ganondorf Guide-​

    By ~Shin~ aka ~Shin_Ganondorf~​




    TABLE OF CONTENTS


    I. Introduction
    II. Color choices
    III. Overall Changes from Melee
    IV. The Actual Damage
    V. Moves List
    VI. How to Kick @$$
    VII. Yes, The Vids.

    Introduction.

    Time has passed, and age has taken its toll. Our youth has passed by but our craving for Power has not left us. We hold onto a dream in our hearts that one day we will possess all pieces of the Triforce. . . .
    Then . . . The gods will have no choice but to come down.

    Any who hold it may have all that they desire. Ever since we came from the desert; that blistering, scorched land where are numbers dwindled, we have had this dream. Still we covet, still we need, still we dream . . . of savoring the tranquil wind that blows over Hyrule.

    Our bones are old, but our hearts are still full of youth! Don black armor! grasp what is left of our colors! Old, tattered swatches of woven linen stained with blood and war. We are Lords of conquest! We have suffered through all the torments of hades! AND SURVIVED THE SCORN OF THE GODS! Hyrule will not share their gift with us! They tell us to hide as winter storms in, with harsh gales that pierce us and our homes with ice and death! THEY WILL NOT SHARE THE POWER OF THE GODS THAT IS FREE TO ANY GERUDO! Free to ANY ... who have the power to dream. . . .
    By the gift of Din, I swear upon this piece of Legend I hold... that as long as the Triforce of Power is in my hand!
    I
    WILL HAVE

    HYRULE
    .​


    -Ganondorf Dragmire​

    (loosly based on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqIb1d9qmlY)

    (and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjNpFWQcxlg)

    OVERALL CHANGES FROM MELEE


    Ganondorf is slower this time around. Most of his attacks kill opponents, and there are even MORE now, can kill your opponent with.
    his smash attacks are faster and stronger. Specifically speaking, his Forward Smash kills VERY well.
    His aerial type combat has been nerfed (due to lag).
    His fighting style is best suited to Ground based. (we approach with Ground based attacks, not with our aerials)

    As a helpful reminder, i'll hit the point again. If you try to go Aerial with Ganondorf and out-do any of the strictly aerial characters, you will lose. You don't rule in the air with attacks that can go through anything. You have too much lag, you are too slow to fail and get away with failing.
    It IS good to know when to hit with your aerials, and how to execute them perfectly, but all I'm saying is DON'T OVERDO IT. Theres a time and place, and a LOT of our game is on the ground. We are not the same as we were in Melee. (aaand with that said, I go back to trying to do aerials, cus I WANA! GRRR!!! @_@;'
    I <3 Aerial priority! I weel Find ET!!)

    -Nintendo's official guide


    COLOR CHOICES


    [​IMG]

    The ones I have looked at in detail are the brown, blue and, grandpadorf.

    Brown - Looks like Classic Ganondorf, your cape is a little more white than you may like, but, its the closest thing you can get to Ganondorf from Melee look. I like rustic, earth-tones which is why I chose this one to be my favorite. Old bronze armor for a battleworn warlord. Just my style.
    Blue - Is a lot darker when you play. Your cape is black on the outside, deep purple on the inside.
    Black - Grandpa-dorf, we all know what he looks like. Black and gold armor, black cape with deep purple on the inside. Matches perfectly with Dark Zelda, Dark Link, and Dark Toon Link. I'm calling this Phantom-dorf myself, it only makes sense to me.

    Green and Red I havn't looked at extensively, but, when I did play them (randomly), the green and red do look extremely thick with their colors. Its not like a puke green, and a pink red, its really WELL chosen palets for these colors. I can imagine people playing those other two colors and looking extremely good.
    Choose your color wisely, its the color that makes you famous.

    The Actual Damage

    Ganondorf Damage Data
    Notes: when there's a range of damage (7-9% for instance) that's lowest to highest with highest being the sweetspo. If there's an "&" that means there's multiple hits. Extra info is in parentheses.

    Jab = 7 - 9%
    Dash = 15%

    F-tilt = 13%
    D-tilt = 12%
    U-tilt = 27%

    F-smash = 24% (33% charged)
    D-smash = 5% & 14% (7% & 19% charged)
    U-smash = 19% - 22% (26% - 30% charged)

    N-air = 7% - 11%
    F-air = 15% - 17%
    B-air = 16%
    U-air = 6% - 13%
    D-air = 22%

    Neutral B = 32-35% (thx daftsir)
    Forward B = 9%
    Down B = 10 - 12%
    "aerial" Down B = 14 - 15% (8% shockwave) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgU64F1LKKY (combine for 25dmg @ 1:00 on this vid)
    Up B = multi-hit 11% (7% "aerial punch")

    Grabs
    Pummel = 2%
    F-throw = 13%
    D-throw = 7%
    U-throw = 7%
    B-throw = 10%

    Thanks to t!mmy for letting me waste time to get this sh*t

    MOVES LIST



    SMASH ATTACKS


    *Tip* Directed smash attacks are MUCH easier in Brawl. I was discussing the idea of this before Brawl came out, and i'm glad they decided to go this way. To do a directed smash attack, all you do is slam towards your opponent with a forward smash, and while you hold A, charging it that slightest bit, press up or down, and let go of A. Tadaah, now we can hit Kirby. *THANK YOU GOD!!! AAAAAUGH THANK YOU SO MUCH!!*

    * We just got the strategy guide, and sadly ... only the B-moves are named. Not many people really cared, but.. *sniffle* I did. Q_Q

    Up smash
    19% - 22%
    26% - 30% charged
    This attack has had a redesign from he Tornado Kick we are used to from Melee. He kicks once strait up. This attack has a fairly large hitbox in front of him, i'm not sure how far above his actually foot the hitbox goes, but I use this as an anti air move. This attack has an amazing fast recovery, you can chain these together like you can chain thunderpunches one after another. It doesn't kill as easy as a well placed Nightmare Lunge (forward smash), but its fast, and can help assist combo's at lower percentages feasibly.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzGRuBX_gbw
    @ 3:29 I do two in a row, best i've got on tape so far.

    Down Smash
    5% & 14% (=19)
    7% & 19% charged (=26)

    The attack known in SSBM as the Leg-Whip has had a slight change to it and I have killed with this attack a lot more often in this game than I have ever in the previous game (excluding the F-air follow up after it in meele o_O). It acts like Captain Falcons in that it sends people away. At the right percent it feels like i've hit somebody with a forward air on the second hit, it is very effective as a killing move. I face towards the stage, suck them in with the first hit, and kick their butts off the edge and into a fun lightshow of "omfg haha you get bbqs@uc3d. lololololololol".
    I liked the combo ability it had in Melee, but I can understand that this Ganondorf is different from Melee's. Your attacks are supposed to hit hard and send people far away. This smash does just that.
    *Tip* --I throw people off a bit by doing an upsmash and immedietly using the downsmash afterwards. They seem to think that any smash attack is an opening to attack..... wrong. I don't know how often people will fall for it, but hey, its fun now, enjoy ^_^.

    Forward Smash
    24% (33% charged)


    The Nightmare Lunge is an attack that Leans back, then thrusts forward with an elbow, this attack has been greatly improved in killing power, and speed. I unfortunately think it does not lean you back as far as it once did. I could definitely be wrong though. I think we all need to be paying attention to this attack, as it can kill at lower percentages than we think. This is our BEST smash attack in this game. Fast, and deadly.

    TILTS


    Forward Tilt
    13%

    THIS ... IS ... SPARTA!!
    ok, now that THAT is over with, this attack takes the place of our directed Tilts from the first game, which were called "Armor Crusher", and were very useful for fighting stupid short-hoppers who didn't know how to play defensively, that love to run into up-angled forward tilts. Or good ol' Kirby who loves to crouch. This won't hit Kirby, but it will hit everything in front of you and slightly above you. This attack has VERY good priority, and slightly better range than our Thunder Punch (Standing A). It also kills better than our Thunder Punch. We have to get used to fighting on the ground and being a bit more defensive this time around, this attack is our friend. Great killing potential, great range, great priority.

    *Tip* - I am now using this attack as a killing move now. It does the job and doesn't leave you lagging like a smash attack will. A few others playing with me agreed - its one hell of a good move. Its fast like the thunderpunch, doesn't leave you lagging, and it kills pretty darn well. Start throwing this out.

    Doing the job at 83% @ 00:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv5StoNu9C8
    Doing the job to a heavy weight @ 114% @ around 1:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6oUsOJHlgc Anyone else see a sweetspot? ..wierd.
    Hands me the winzies @ 3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zdA_0y44Y

    Down Tilt
    12%

    Taking the place of "Sweeping Snake" we have this new attack. It swings faster, and recovers faster for spamability - I do believe it has less range. This move is NOT to be overlooked however! It actually has KILLED for me several times when I was playing the game. And it also pops up characters for up aerials and other sort of attacks. I use this move primarily for combo starters now. It pops them up for a good up aerial, sometimes a forward air.

    Up Tilt
    27%


    The Volcano Kick is back, yes, in all its non-competative nature. This attack has been often times looked at as our worst attack. (Thought I should also share... this pizza i'm eating is very good. Papa Murphys is great! [omg, i'm eating pizza while i'm editing 2 months later...wtf!? lolololol]). I was complaining that i'd be pissed if this move came back in Brawl, but believe it or not, once I used it a few times and saw the new features of the attack, I was happy it made it back! This attack has a vacuume effect that sucks opponents to where the attack will land. If an opponent is too close to you, it sucks them away, and likewise if they are too far away from you it sucks them towards you. This attack ALSO hits on the way down as well as at the initial hitbox. The move also hits farther away from you this time, and can take people by suprise by its range.
    I have not yet got a full-proof plan to use this attack, but i've killed with it in teams quite a bit, and I've mostly used it when an opponent is recovering from the edge, rolling or standing up, they all get sucked into it and go OMG! WTF@O$%UI^(@@#$^#!!!#!!!?!?!!?!
    Toooooo gooooood.

    Its been a week now, and I'm hitting people with this attack in SINGLES (thats one vs one folks). In a period of 3 hours, I hit twice with it, I only used the attack sparingly, but when I did the attack, it seemed to give better results. I never got punished greatly for using the move, so, I kept at it. Try this out when you can. Hint? L2Mind-gamez for best results.

    @ 00:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv5StoNu9C8 LOOK AT THE RANGE ON THAT CRAP!! YES!!! FREAKIN YEAAH!!-!#%HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAAGH!!
    @ 3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6oUsOJHlgc (doesn't kill as good as melee, but wow, this does the % damage, and I can get it off more often.)

    STANDING A
    7 - 9%

    Oh yea, the Thunder Punch makes its triumphant return, and with a buff. This attack has an amazing knockback value, i'm even wondering if there is a set knockback at low percentages, because WOW, it sends them back. The other feature to this attack that is new, is it has the potential to Kill... ((WHAT!?!?)) Yes thats right, the first time I played the game I killed with the Thunder Punch atleast three or more times. They were at around 150% but they certainly died. This attack may look slow, but as we thought, it is a Brawl illusion. The game overal runs slower, and the Thunderpunch is as fast as its always been.
    Also, the animation of this attack has a slightly different look to it. Instead of a 'stop in the name of the law' palm strike, you can clearly see Ganondorfs hands...clawed..
    Is anyone else grinning wickedly? Mwua-ha-ha-haaa....

    The forward tilt does more damage and is about the same speed, however, the Thunder-punch DOES have slightly better range than the forward tilt. When you are close and use a Thunder-Punch, it does 7%, from its sweetspot distance it does 9%. Its almost stupid to Thunderpunch unless you know its at its max range.

    Yes, its fast. Yes Ganon can be fast enough to trade hits quickly and do crazy stuff like thees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8evlX66ZV0 look at 2:30

    *Tip* Here is a list of characters you CANNOT Thunderpunch after a Flame-Choke attack. Thanks to Genome. (you forgot lucas!)
    Mario, Link, Fox, Falco, Marth, Zelda, Sheik, Squirtle, Peach, Ganondorf, Sonic, Ness, Lucario, Toon Link, Captain Falcon, and Zero Suit Samus(AND LUCAS @#$%@!!!). If you are on a slope, you can hit ANYONE however. keep that in mind.

    DASH ATTACK

    15%
    Behold, Iron Shoulder, our incredibly improved dash attack. Guys, pay attention now. This move is a combo starter, it is a character speed boost, and it is a kill move, all in one. When you use this for the first time, your eyebrows will raise a bit because- "well Ganon moves clunky and slow and... woh, that was pretty fast." Thats right, its that fast. Closly compared to Shieks dash attack, this move speeds you up and pops opponents up into the air. Using this move yields slightly different results depending upon which part of the move you hit with.
    If you hit with the earlier part of the dash attack, it tends to send opponents High up. If you hit them in the middle, close to same results; and at the VERY end of the animation of this attack, it launches them up just slightly (good for a set up at high percent). This attack has VERY good priority as well as killing potential. It is one of your main kill moves you'll find. I've killed with this too many times to say "eh, its an ok killer." It does the job guys. And it also combos WELL.

    *tip* this is a combo in progress, but, I have successfully done down throw to dash attack several times. I don't know if downthrow to up aerial is better (I can't test percents yet) But the combo is pretty solid.

    *tip* Also, if your opponent is far far away, and your looking at that distance to get to him as... aww crap, I wish I could wave-dash off these platforms to speed me up..this is going to suck running across this stupid final destination - BAH!. Well, guess what, you can get there a lot quicker if you just chain together two dash attacks. It really does speed you up. What also might speed you up is a beginning dash to run, roll-dodge, and repeat that.

    Killing easily @ 133% http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qVDsDHJ4Y @ 1:33 And yes, I <3 pictochat! essohfun!

    Using it as a speed-up @ around 1:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhtPSPm1gjc (just once, but, look at the speed. would you run? heck no)
    Throughout this match I use it to get around faster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6oUsOJHlgc
    Killing Ike @ 107% @ 1:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agbhL3XctZI


    THROWS


    Down Throw
    7%
    The Dirt Nap doesn't chain-throw anymore, sorry folks. Though I havn't tried it on BOWSER, I have tried it on stupid little psychic boys, and I get kicked in face every time. And with DI, you can barely hit people after you do the first one anyway. Some have resorted to the up-throw, but, theres something to explore here. I have, on a couple occasions, hit an opponent (who I swear, HAS DI'd) with a Dash Attack after using the down-throw. Other than that, you definitely can downthrow + upsmash, downthrow + forward smash (wow, how do I keep hitting with this, people will learn, I swear.) And the EASIEST one is downthrow plus up air.

    Up Throw
    7%
    Have not slow-mo'd it down to see WTF he does, but wow, you go up. I duno if it kills yet, but, I have up thrown to up air, and with killing results, up thrown to up B. (the punch inside our up B killed, was hot)

    Back Throw
    10%
    Blind Mule-Kick makes its triumphant return, I was able to kill with it once while playing. I was towards the edge and kicked them away at a reasonably high percent, and it did the trick. Pretty nifty. Finally this attack is more than just utility for opponent placement, it can freak'n kill... well. It'd be better if it killed like Ness's back-throw or Peaches forward throw. Oh wellzies.

    Forward Throw
    13%
    I actually haven't done one yet.. I'm not sure if it looks the same as the good ol' Gut Punch or not. I think its like the back-throw, but I'm not sure if it has killing potential or not. Needs more testing. This is your strongest throw, noice! its like two throws in one! HAW!!

    A - While Holding
    2%

    Yea Armored Knee, smack em good a few times before you throw. /raises the roof .... just a little

    AERIALS


    Forward Aerial
    15% - 17%
    The Skull CrusherThis attack has lost a little bit of its killing power and a little bit of its knock-back value, but its still viable for killing. I killed an opponent at around 76 percent with this-- THAT, is good. I however do NOT like the lag in the move, as I, and most other Ganondorf players are used to approaching opponents (shielding or not) with this attack followed by a Thunder Punch just after it. This is no longer applicable - the lag on the attack is too great to be used as anything BUT a kill move. I HAVE experienced using this move at the very best of its range, and had an opponent slide back enough that I wasn't shield grabbed, but still, I do not recommend the use of this attack unless you know you can get away with it.
    The Skull crusher I've found is great for team battles, the move seems to last a LOT longer, and hit slightly below you. I've had three people caught in this move at once, and it sounds and feels more solid than it did in Melee. I believe its destined to be a kill move at best. Overall, don't expect the same aerial as in Melee, the lag will upset you. Once you learn to deal with the lag and use the move only when you know it will hit, or you know you want have drastic turnovers, you'll love this move again.

    *tip* trying to test this, but I currently can't see why you can't down-tilt to forward aerial, I did it to Ness once when I was playing... We all remember down-smash to forward air, and down aerial to forward air. If anyone can come up with some combo's leading to forward air, I'd like to hear them. They better be solid though, I will test everything. My closest bet is down-tilt to forward aerial, and MAYBE down-throw dash attack forward air.

    The Skull Crusher is the move i'm having the worst time re-learning actually.

    If we time this right? We can still do the job fellahs check out 1:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv5StoNu9C8

    Down Aerial
    22%
    THE THUNDER DROP, And wow... I had to pause the game after I hit with this and ask around the room if anyone else heard what I heard. The move SOUNDS LIKE THUNDER, I swear I heard the rumble of thunder outside when I did this for the first time at HIGH percent. It sounds great. And the effect is beautiful, it actually seems to stop time when you hit with this. There are significant nerfs and buffs to talk about with this move.
    Like we stated in the beginning, Ganondorf is a land based character now. We DO NOT start combos with this attack anymore, the lag is too great. However, aside from this move being nerfed in combo ability and even basic use (the way we remember) you can still use this to punish foes trying to follow up attacks in the air - and heres the sweet part. Every time I have played the game so far, and I have used this move as a spike over the edge NOBODY HAS RECOVERED. I play with VERY good players over here that go to tournaments monthly, and we knew all the tricks melee had to offer, every single d@mn one of them, and not a single person has recovered from this. IT HITS FREAKIN' HARD. I almost think you could have a slogan with this attack or something. Ya know, like... if you can recover from this, then I'll buy you a pizza.... awww, I ate all my pizza... @#$%^@%^#$ ...
    I'm always going to be thinking of pizza whenever I read this guide, lol. But thats what makes it good! lulz

    *tip* From a standing position, if you jump over the head of your opponent and plant one of these, you will have no lag when you land on the other side. Lets start learning to placed this well, we might find combo ability yet, I'm trying hard not to doubt, but its up to the rest of you to prove me wrong.

    ----update---- in this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ldQmo3JBR0&feature=PlayList&p=E2491865F54AC855&index=103
    we see a player use the Thunder Drop so that there is no lag after it. Unfortunately he does not connect with the opponent many times. But look at around.. 1:09 and see the effect.. This is a big step methinks. I would REALLY like to explore this when I have some time.

    Up Aerial
    6% - 13%
    Yes! Something spamable! The Vulture Kick I believe has had its ranged increased IN FRONT of Ganondorf. This attack is your spam attack, use it over and over and over and over and over and over (need I go on?) again, and then some more after that. There is little to no landing lag with this move. The ending animation of the attack still works as a suitable 'semi' spike. Aaah.. its like it was in Melee.... /basks in the warm sunlight of familiarity.
    And yes folks you can still run off the edge with up aerials, it works like a charm still. I swear the move hits as hard as it did in Melee, maybe slightly stronger knockback though.
    Killing @ 1:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMnwaQW6knw the good ol fashioned way.

    Back Aerial
    16%

    Bah! This move kinda upset me, but its still good, I just haven't had a chance to test it a lot. The Hidden Gauntlet is your only other aerial that you can spam over and over again and have little to no landing lag. I need to get more study on the hit-boxes but this is what I know so far. The attack doesn't seem to reach out as far as it did in Melee. And the knock-back has been lessened. Its still a killer of a move, but, the facts are here, it doesn't kill as good as it once did. We are ground based, don't forget that. This move DOES hit slightly above and behind you (kinda next to your head), but I still need to test this hit-box more extensively to find out what we can get away with. In the past I could pull this off and sink down in the air as it worked similar to .... say, Fox's or Links neutral air because it stayed out. I think its not the case anymore.

    I'm starting to hit with it a lot more. Theres a hitbox between your neck and head that stands pretty far out actually. And really, I've just had to re-learn how to 'place' the move. I've had to do different angles of placement to have this move work the way it worked in the past. I don't know how to describe it actually. Good-luck learning is all I can say, lol.

    Neutral Aerial
    7% - 11%
    Woot Flying Keese! Its fast, it combos together better than it did in Melee. Unfortunately... you can't spam it over and over again. There is the slightest bit of landing lag with this attack. -big sigh- And I was REALLY looking forward to using this move as a spam aerial... I did that in Melee with good results. It does come out very fast. Another thing. Not that anyone really knows this, but, in Melee the Neutral airial killed at high percent, and it was an ok Killer for me (because I used it a lot, no I'm not a n00b, its a good aerial, your the n00b @_@;') but in Brawl there is like ... no ability to kill with this, i'm a little ticked that this move got a nerf good enough for me to outright be all "BAH!! WTF!?!"
    I still use this attack out of flail, as it is very fast, and I still use this on heavy characters and try very hard to use it on all characters at lower percents (so both hits will hit) but, overall, I think this attack will have to be relearned for me. Down throw Neutral aerial is no longer an option. And that was the best use of the move in Melee for me. That racked up the damage.

    When I become more familiar with the game, I'll approach using this attack again, and see if I can find a way to use it. I'm of an opinion that ALL your moves are important and have their uses. I bet I just have to jump right or something, or approach this at a certain percentage, something. oh well.

    SPECIAL ATTACKS


    Neutral B - Warlock Punch
    35% - yeayuhs!

    This move has had a graphical redesign. I haven't explored it too much, but, I do know it does 30% damage and KO's ridiculously low. Its our huge @$$ move. High risk greater rewards, all that jazz. Not much to say about it. I don't know of any armor frames on it. Its one huge @$$ back-hand from Ganondorf that'll knock you off your feat. (And probably make you all sparkly with lights and screaming ^_^)

    *tip* Warlock punch can have its direction changed at the beginning of the animation. If you press the B button and quickly after press the opposite direction you will turn the other direction. It DOES work in the air. (i'm not sure the difference in power, i'll have to check that. I think it interrupts the sound-file of the move, or, it takes a little longer for the move to activate as if its staggered.. duno.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzUEwCSfFGA
    on the 22 second mark is where I practice it. This vid also offers some learning material. Like up throw to up B, which didn't work on my buds Ike after I did it 3 other times earlier.

    thank you Hironori for sending me an e-mail bringing this to my notice. Heres a gold star for you! *

    Down B - Wizards Foot
    10 - 12% ground
    14 - 15% air

    Oooooh yeaaa. This move has been upgraded a bit. Its speed and length have been increased. From a run, you can immediately use this attack, practically no start-up lag. You can take a lot of people by surprise. Its becoming a spam move even! And it still works! When used in the air you do not get your jumps back (sorry :( ), but It kill easily in the air. The first few frames are a spike, but most of the move sends you up. In the air, I've killed people off the top with this, using it as an aerial. You also recover quicker from this move when you hit the ground.
    The angle in which you travel down is very different. We are used to going at an angle slightly to the left or right, its been angled down slightly more. I would NOT recommend using this move for recover AT ALL. If your very far out and think this move will carry you closer towards the stage, your wrong. What it will do is send you down very fast and at an angle that is not going to benefit you at all if you instead were to just float holding towards the stage. I learned this the hard way folks, trust me. I have used this to get DOWN faster, knowing full well that I can recover no matter what. I do notice that it sends Ganondorf down at high speeds even after the move has ended. Be careful that can kill you by surprising you at how fast your STILL traveling. Auto Fast-fall? weird.

    This attack is also good for comboing. I've often used it like this. Thunder-Punch(standing A) or Forward Tilt at medium percents, which sends them far out. Using this will hit them and take them by surprise. I mean after all how do they expect you to travel the distance to hit them again? Its good for closing distance with an attack. Lets discover new uses for this move, its something new in my eyes.

    Killing easily from the air @ 97% http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qVDsDHJ4Y @ 2:46 (I miss once... /cry)
    A combo @ 1:10, using it from a run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMnwaQW6knw
    As a recovery (from ledge) @ 2:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhtPSPm1gjc
    Killing a heavyweight @ 106% @ 4:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6oUsOJHlgc
    Recovery from ledge @ 3:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8evlX66ZV0
    25 F*cking damage folks, @ 1:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgU64F1LKKY

    *tip* Being one of our best killers (Aerial), i've been experimenting with lots of ways to get this hit in. The best two ways i've found are these. From the edge. Jump up, immediately do the Wizards foot, you should stop your upwards movement and slam to the ground. Be careful not to do it TOO quickly... I've died a few times doing it... too quickly. Other than that, a new one I found tonight is utalizing the new feature of the game, Footstool Jumping, to execute this move. I don't know if you all have had fun doing repeated Wizard Foots on those jumpy thingies, but I have, and thats what gave me the idea.
    WIZARDS WRATH Footstool-Jump + Wizards foot. This

    *tip* Yes, the 1-frame Wizards foot on the ground IS useful, a few days ago when I was playing, I used this attack to space, and to attack my opponent, and to combo. It IS faster than the Thunder Punch (standing A) which that alone makes it incredible. It strikes in front of you and behind you, and strikes faster than a Thunderpunch, however. Thunderpunch has more range in front of G-dorf and does 1% more damage.
    How to do it? Jump and do a wizards foot very fast. like yea, do it REALLY FAST. When you do it right you should just see Ganondorf on the ground getting up, he says nothing, no grunting, no wizards foot voice clip. A shockwave flies out and he gets up.
    Lets start using this, its our fastest move on the ground now.

    Up B - Dark Dive
    multi-hit 11% (7% "aerial punch")

    Wow, this move is still great. Overall it has had lots of buffs, not many nerfs. Here are the nerfs first. After you use this attack, you know how you can have pretty decent air control? No, you don't get it in this one... I don't know why. I'll be falling to oblivion and pass the edge because I held away to dodge an attack and then held towards to grab the edge, and it still has me traveling away.. its weird. You pretty much have only one destination, and you better hit it. No air control for you. Also, this move doesn't kill, I'm almost about to say it has a set knockback. I had an opponent around 150 and it didn't kill them, it didn't look like it even sent them back.. was crappy. I think they could have left it alone for knockback value.
    On the good side, you can still Dark Dive out of shield, woot! One of the most notable features to Ganondorfs Up + B is that at the end he swings his fist in a big uppercut. This attack is an interesting one I have explored in detail. I have, a few times, up thrown at high percent and followed with a well-placed Dark Dive, and killed. o_O;. The uppercut on the Dark Dive has VERY good priority, I'm thinking its one of the best priority moves you have, and the reason is, is because I really do believe the hit-box is VERY extended with this attack. The knock-back is ok (good enough to kill folks), and I see it mostly as a built in anti edgehog. I have, while recovering, hit somebody who was walking towards the edge with the uppercut on this. They were very " WTF!?", and yea, I was laughing pretty hard. Ganons broken, lololololol.

    *tip* Just like we don't want to hear.... remember those lvl 9 computer Falcons and Ganondorfs in Melee? They always used this move, over and over... and their combos always led to this. We might have to do likewise this way around. This move sends you up VERY FAST, and send you up a VERY LARGE distance. Instead of jump, double jump, Vulture Kick, try just jumping and up B'ing. I've done it a few times, I even juggled somebody with it (using the uppercut). But for little combos, like, up-throw up B. Those are basic things we take for granted that will be helpful in Brawl. Down Tilt + Dark Dive, Dash attack + Dark Dive, the list goes on. This attack is going to me more important as an offensive move this time around, I can feel it.

    Combo @ 1:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhtPSPm1gjc using the uppercut as an attack
    @ 1:04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8evlX66ZV0 almost kills


    Forward B - Flame-Choke
    9%
    The attack formerly known as Gerudo Dragon makes a different appearance in Brawl. This new attack separates us the most from Captain Falcon, and sets us on a pedestal of crazy uniqueness ... this thing is a grab attack. It does (I think) 9-10% damage when you use it, and it sets up for tech-chase fun! (you know how much we love it! WUU!!!) This grabs opponents when they are shielding. you DO NOT FALL DOWN after you use it and fail to hit. (Falcon does... pfffff-ahhahahaahahaha!!!)
    Over the edge you can grab people and Dorfacide. (Take that t!mmy!! Your Kirby has met its match!) I have not had the time to see who dies first. However, against lucas, I DID lose the match because I died first. Against Bowser? I duno. If you short-hop Flame-Choke ON the stage, you will head-plant them into the ground VERY quick (they almost always just do a get-up attack because its so fast. You get a free shield grab then) When you do it standing on the stage he will pick the opponent up by the neck with one hand, and purple energy will explode from their neck and face. (Anyone played King of Fighters? Iori Yagami? oh hell yea, we have the rage of the eight maidens right here boi. YES-HAHA!!)

    *???* I have seen a lot of vids of people thunder-punching RIGHT AFTER the use of a Flame-Choke.. I have not been able to duplicate that scenerio, and I don't know why. I'll get back on that...

    *Tip* For beginners chaining, after connecting with this move, slowly walk away (out of range of their getup attack) and do the move again if they get up or they roll up, you should be able to catch them no matter where they go. If you space it right, its easier and safer. I did this for a few hours today, it seems solid.

    *tip* this IS a VERY good recovery tool (prolly our best). However. When you do the forward B as a recovery, you need to plan and hit an opponent, or not do it. At high level play (yes, were talking about it right now) people are going to be able to hit you before you latch onto the edge.. You actually have 1/2 a second or a full second before you sink down, the move completing, and you going into a fall animation which triggers the latch onto the stage effect. With the Dark Dive (up B) it almost ALWAYS latches on, on any part of the animation of that move. Dark Dive( up + B ) is a VERY safe way to recover. But either one is a good recovery. Just experiment with it for a while, and figure out which one is best for every given situation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qVDsDHJ4Y @ 2:40
    @ 3:30 !!OMG PLANT COMBO! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qVDsDHJ4Y (yes I only hit once lulz) ITS FUNNY!! @_@;' <3 pictochat
    Dorfacide @ 1:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv5StoNu9C8
    Best recovery in the game, srsly! look @ 1:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8evlX66ZV0
    Believe me yet? this is crazy. @ 2:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgU64F1LKKY

    ***************How To Kick @$$***************


    These are the two most important things to learn with Ganondorf.

    How to approach your opponent.

    and

    How to keep it going.

    For approaching, this is what i've found to be the best. These are the attacks that I use to approach my opponent.

    Dash attack
    Forward B

    (there are more, given the situation. These however are the most common i've found-so far-.)

    These two attacks are the leading two moves that I use to approach my opponent. I find that there is no easy 1,2,3 combo to approach my opponent (such as forward air to jab in melee). Because Ganondorf is strictly ground based now, its a lot harder to adapt for me. I like playing a little faster of a character.

    I have also found that a good way to approach is through steadily learning to BAIT your opponent into giving you an opening. This might be VERY hard for people to do considering I don't know what your style is or how your opponent takes to being fooled into attacking. I know its the hardest thing for me, because I play VERY offensively, and its hard to break myself to go defensively and bait people. For the longest time I felt that, if I was playing a defensive game, my opponent would think me a coward, thus, I learned to play one of the fastest Melee Ganons out there, and was pretty **** offensive. Ganon, overall, plays WAY more defensive in this game... we gotta get used to it if we want to survive.
    Ganondorfs attacks are decently fast, if your opponent attacks you, he gives something up to do so. Here are some tips.

    Dash-dancing and Fox Trotting

    Foxtrot @ 2:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qVDsDHJ4Y omg spikes just after! (at the current moment, i'm doing fox-trot a lot, less dash-dancing)

    is an immediate ability that we have (it looks like your spinning in circles stupidly fast as though your trying to be a helicopter) that can make your opponent second-guess what it is your doing. I find that its ok to throw this in just about any time. Not when your opponent is far away, but when he's closing the distance between you and him, and even when your point blank- it throws them off.

    Dash-dance - Dash attack has worked very well for me.

    If you find yourself in a position with a defensive character, I don't have the answer for you. All I can say is, keep at it, learn their pattern, and find a way through it.

    Now, once you've succesfully approached and got your opponent in your hands... what do you do?
    Well, there is a lot you CAN do, and, yes, in Brawl, there is even more that you CAN'T do. Learning how to Keep it Going comes next.

    If you launch your opponent into the air, your most useful attack is your up airial. Chaining that over and over again can build damage, and keep your opponent on the deep end.
    If it comes down to chaining together forward B's, you can easily shieldgrab an opponent who's doing a get-up-attack. Or you can even Down-B to hit an opponent as they roll away from you. These are attacks that you will learn (hopfully) naturally through playing. Keeping it going is merely learning to hit more than once with Ganondorf.

    We ARE NOT, just one hit wonders. ​
    In order for you to win, you have to hit more than once in a period of seconds. Learning to use your FAST ATTACKS is how you will learn to KEEP IT GOING. You'll find out that its extremely important to learn to chain together small fast attacks (forward tilts and jabs, up aerials and back aerials, grabs, down-B's) and then lead into devastating strong attacks (practically anything else).
    I can't exactly tell you a formula for keeping the pressure on your opponent. And as a hint. the combo's you are doing don't involve you pressing many buttons at once. Part of playing a defensive character, is using a fast attack that strikes hard (thunder-punch) and waiting a second before pressing it again, knowing your opponent will try to attack again, and then you hit him again. Before he catches on and goes defensive, you then launch at him with a dash attack. This is just a random scenario, what I'm trying to say is, defensive characters don't shine-wavedash. We think, and SPACE OUR ATTACKS WITH PATIENCE, knowing our enemy will inevitably defeat himself.

    I'm actually one of the worst persons to write a guide, truly. Whenever I perform a martial art; whether that be using my Katana, doing some basica Kata's, sparing, fighting games, ANY of that. After a confrontation, where something has happened; a neat combo, or just an event, I CAN'T REMEMBER what I did. And I might have done that several times that day. My muscles have better memory than I do.

    So you can see its hard for me to recall all the combo's i've done today with Ganondorf. I'll tell you this for sure. I make him move fast, and I make him out-prioratize my opponents. He's a beast in the right hands.
    As soon as I've had more and more and more exposure, I might be able to remember what my fighting-mind and my muscle-memory already know by instinct.


    Combo's that I've found.

    this is a quick update

    at low percentages you will find yourself looking more like Melee Ganondorf, if you chain together this on an unsuspecting opponent.

    Downtilt, Jab, Dash attack.

    Downthrow, (fox-trot) up-Smash, Up+B

    Downthrow, Dash attack, (wait) Dash attack

    Downthrow, Dash attack, charged upangled Forward Smash

    DownTilt, Up+B, Down+B

    Downthrow, Dash attack, thunderpunch (omg I miss @ 1:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zdA_0y44Y )

    Downthrow, Up Air http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgzSPbO3NT8 @ 1:13 (probably could have upsmashed)

    Forward B, Down B @ 1:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMnwaQW6knw

    Upthrow, Up B, @ around 1:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhtPSPm1gjc

    Thunder-Storm stomp + Downtilt + Forward Tilt

    Upthrow, Up-air, Flame-choke

    ***

    Mindgames.

    Dash attack is one of your best combo starters, finding ways to bait into it is a problem. Dash-dancing is one thing. Fox-trotting is a GREAT way to mix up your intentions. from doing dash attacks ALL the time, (which you will do all the time) the fox-trot (beginning dash animation used again and again) you will move forward and stop, ready to intercept somebody attacking you, or keep your opponent second guessing.

    This is a fighting technique in real life when I compare it. Inching forward using jeet-kun-do footwork, is extremely hard, because you have to have a SPECIFIC posture. When your opponent sees your posture break up when your attacking, they attack, but if its you just inching forward, its a feint, and you can attack them without giving up anything.

    When your opponent sees you foxtrot, all you have to do is press A, and you will have a superior attack launched at them.

    *(****

    The wizards foot KO's in the air. It actually does more percent damage in the air than on the ground.


    your best recovery from the edge is your forward B, which can hit a crouching zero suit samus if done right.


    Yes, The Vids​



    Thanks to DMStudios for being my vid b*tch.

    First ones -2/20/08
    ************
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzGRuBX_gbw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgzSPbO3NT8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qVDsDHJ4Y

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMnwaQW6knw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhtPSPm1gjc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv5StoNu9C8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6oUsOJHlgc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8evlX66ZV0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzUEwCSfFGA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agbhL3XctZI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgU64F1LKKY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zdA_0y44Y

    *****
    3/07/08
    *****
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9K1o5D8EY8



    **This guide is ever changing and growing. Please send any additions you have to my e-mail, [email protected]* And I will do my best to look them over. Thank you.

    -currently maining Lucario, so updates will definitely be scarce. Lets see some more guides pop up! Keep Ganon alive!

    Last Updated: 10/06/2008
  2. Deception

    Deception Smash Ace

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    Nice guide, ~Shin~, much easier to read than your other impressions guide. The transition to being ground-based sounds like a well needed change, because my brothers already know how to counter my Ganon because I jump too much. I look forward to what crazy stuff you discover next.
  3. :034:

    :034: Smash Hero

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    Awesome guide and a good read.

    EDIT: 666 posts...
  4. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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    o_O
    holy crap Dutchman, lol, that is 666posts. Quick, make a new account and save this one. haha.

    I don't work today so i'll poke n prod this guide into shape. add some colors n stuffs.
  5. deebz435

    deebz435 Smash Journeyman

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    This is a good thread Shin, I like your analysis and opinions. Thanks for doing this.
  6. BEHR

    BEHR Smash Hero

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    Good Shiz so far im hoping this information will change the minds of people who believe Ganon is crap.
  7. Dragmire

    Dragmire Smash Lord

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    as another person who has at least played brawl ganon well I found he was about the same and even better in many ways I'll still be playing him as well as the hopefully others
  8. TLHM

    TLHM Smash Cadet

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    nice guide. I look forward to trying out the new ganon
  9. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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    Where the **** is my sticky.
    Who runs this joint?

    Silent Wolf? C'mon bro, you played Brawl with me like.. just a week ago.
    Gimpy?
    I feel dumb for not knowing who's in charge anymore... lulz.


    upping for sticky.


    I got a 3 days weekend coming up, hopefully t!mmy will let me grab Brawl and get percentages and knockback values for the attacks I got.
    And i'll finally test some combo's that have been floating in my head.
    ~Shin_Ganondorf~
  10. flashfox

    flashfox Smash Cadet

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    sorry, they ran doubles the entire time and I really couldn't play much at all. I got to play one game but I was mobbed since it was ffa.

    I couldn't test anything at all. Although you're right, that dash attack is amazing and using that is a ground spam works out pretty well.

    I'm annoyed that we don't have a good approach, sometimes the dash attack isn't enough. I've found myself to be a bit more defensive even.
  11. :034:

    :034: Smash Hero

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    Explore more on the Thunder Drop spamming. I want to know more about that. See if you can pull it off and/or apply it to other aerials.

    And call the repeated spamming of dairs the Thunder Storm, while you're at it. ;D
  12. Phazon Warrior

    Phazon Warrior Smash Cadet

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    Hello,

    Do you know if Ganondorf can still grab onto the ledge with the Dark Dive even though you're facing the other way?
  13. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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    Wow, I just worked 10 hours, no breaks, no lunch... i'm f*ing tired.
    no work on this today.

    Yes you can grapple the edge if your facing away.
    Downtilt leads to up + B
    downthrow leads to dash-attack at some percentages. (low ones) I was able to downthrow dashattack up b omg i'm so tired I can't type..
  14. triforceswordmaster

    triforceswordmaster Smash Apprentice

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    wow, great guide shin. yeah, the word people are looking for when describing new non isn't "bad," just "different."

    oh yeah, glad to hear thunderdrop is still decent. i was playin melee the other day with my friends, and everytime my friend who was marth would get close to killing someone, i'd drop down to steal the kill while killing him in the process. good times...
  15. EvilGenki

    EvilGenki Smash Rookie

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    I had an opportunity to play yesterday and I can say that the infi-stomp (thunder storm, as it were) is very very easy to pull off, on a GC controller you can just hold down on the control stick and quickly slide your thumb over jump & A with the right timing to get it to work, with a little leeway to move forwards and backwards while you're doing it. You have to be careful if you actually hit the opponent or if they shield it as the game will slow down in a sort of "block stun," changing the timing. At low percentages it seems like it can combo into itself since it bounces them low, not sure.

    He seems to also be able to land laglessly after a B-air, but it seems impractical for hitting some ground targets; i was testing on sonic and I couldn't tag him with it, even with a fast fall it seems that the B-air just doesn't stay out long enough, maybe some of the bigger chars it could be applicable. Also looks like you can do this as well with U-air, and it can hit ground targets if you do it facing backwards, I wasn't able to test this as thoroughly.

    Hope this helps!
  16. EvilGenki

    EvilGenki Smash Rookie

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    Also, I fooled around a lot with the new forward B. Comboing Thunder Punch afterwards looks like it only works on certain characters reliably, on Bowser it's almost guaranteed, and it worked pretty consistently on a few other chars but I can't remember all of em atm.

    The move also does seem to have unusual priority; i was grabbing people out of A LOT of different things, even grabbed Bowser in the middle of his down smash. This might be one of Ganondorf's best moves to beat out other people's moves, looks like it has a lot of potential.
  17. T0MMY

    T0MMY Smash Champion

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    Ganondorf lost his stock first when using his B> against Bowser when I just checked.
    I think it's safe to assume he will lose his stock first against anyone.
    Someone sticky this guide (and my R.O.B. guide as well) >:^p
  18. Cosmo!

    Cosmo! nerf zelda's dsmash

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    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois Speedrunning: Zelda OoT

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=F0V3-Ky36vQ end of match
  19. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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  20. Dragmire

    Dragmire Smash Lord

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    I'm an eye witness to this and it was awesome yet everyone watching was silent

    then like 10 secs they cheered really loudly
  21. Deception

    Deception Smash Ace

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    Hey ~Shin~, have you tryed hyphen-smashing (dashing up-smash)with Ganon? The hitbox in front of the up-smash is much larger than we thought (see h1roshi's Ganon video versus Toon Link), so I think Ganon might have a good hyphen-smash.
  22. Warlock*G

    Warlock*G Smash Lord

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    That's because it's got superarmor.
  23. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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    can you make it easier for a lazy guy? can ya tell me the minute and second mark (youtubes, not the matches) and gimi an actual link. thanx.

    I added vids of me btw. (or will in about 2 minutes)
  24. RPK

    RPK Smash Lord

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    can you still autocancel aerials just by short hopping? And when I say that I mean back air...Is it still auto cancelable by short hopping it? Also I see dair is now auto canceled by short hopping which I find to be rather scary ._.
    EDIT: Also, just wondering, can you do his Side+b at any time during a jump? And also, wouldnt it also be a good idea, after hitting someone with his new side+b to sh dair right after instead? They wont be able to hit you if your that high off the ground so if they stay in place, theyll get hit by that, or if they roll away, you land and chase after then with another side+B.
  25. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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    You can Side+B any time during a jump.
    Yes, Side+B pluss Down-air works. Getting the timing down might be tough. different heights/sized characters.
    ~Shin_Ganondorf~
  26. RPK

    RPK Smash Lord

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    Well Im just going to assume that everyone's get up attack hits side to side so jumping up will have them completely miss their get up and you will be right above them. And if you miss, no matter, you land with no lag and can chase after them again :p
  27. Zarez

    Zarez Smash Cadet

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    Ganondorf vs. Toon Link (I think he was talking about when he used it at 00:57):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-krKAun2CBs
  28. RPK

    RPK Smash Lord

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    lol Hyphen smashing...Where the hell did you get that name? Its just a jump canceled up smash ._.
  29. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

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    that had nice range on that upsmash
    I don't really think I see anything...xcept how crazy the range is on the upsmash. I duno folks, I havn't explored that yet.
  30. Deception

    Deception Smash Ace

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    Lee Harris called it that, and it's not really jump-canceled. You can do an upsmash while running and you'll slide while doing your upsmash.
  31. Phazon Warrior

    Phazon Warrior Smash Cadet

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    Does the Thunder Drop still connect as long as Ganondorf's body touches the opponent, or was that removed also?
  32. Josiah

    Josiah Smash Cadet

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    I'd like to know that as well, as that'd make the "Thunder Storm" as it's been called, REALLY nasty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjlXcDRL9G0
    This guy doesn't do it a whole lot, but @ about 7:45 he suggests that you make the d-air lagless if Ganon finishes executing it before landing. So I can imagine some people literally just bunny-hopping around with this if they were to perfect that.
  33. flashfox

    flashfox Smash Cadet

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    Over-B, A works only on the heavier characters, IIRC.

    Personally I like upthrows as our combo starter. Nice job with the updates, I'm glad to see you play.
  34. RPK

    RPK Smash Lord

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    Location:
    Santa Clara, California
    Also, I just realized the first part of my question wasnt answered. Can you still auto cancel some aerials just by short hopping? If yes, what aerials?
  35. ~Shin~

    ~Shin~ Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    ...... all of them? I mean, if you space your jump right, everything autocancels. (xcept forward air actually. thats a b*tch of a recovery)
  36. EvilGenki

    EvilGenki Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    20
    yes, it does look like it has SAF towards the end of the dash and also during the actual grab, but I've also seen it straight up grab people out of things without Ganondorf even taking damage. (on SAF you still take damage, right? Or is it different from non-flinch frames)
  37. :034:

    :034: Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    7,579
    Location:
    Netherlands
    That'd be sick. Thunder Storm ftw. Basically you'd turn your entire body into a raging bull hellbent upon hitting the opponent... And then without the lag! :D

    Every aerial except for fair can be autocancelled.
  38. Dragmire

    Dragmire Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,860
    Location:
    Portjohnington,Wisjohnsin
    actually the Dair is laggy too

    but uair bair and nair are auto L-cancelled
  39. Josiah

    Josiah Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Carlisle, PA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv5StoNu9C8

    How practical is the forward-B against someone trying to edge hog? I mean, don't get me wrong it looks great, but would it have been better to up-B to get back on the stage? Then again, you could be just setting yourself up to get hit again in doing that, I suppose. Anyone able to enlighten?
  40. EvilGenki

    EvilGenki Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    20
    played for about 6 hours yesterday in 1v1s, and I had a few observations. The sideB has a lot of priority, even without super-armor frames; I managed to grab bowser out of his upB and Sonic out of one of his spin-dash attacks without taking damage. The sideB Thunder Punch combo seems to be character specific, although not necessarily related to weight, so far I've managed to get it to work on Bowser, Dedede, Snake, Wolf, Pit, Ike, and Metaknight. It did not work on Toon Link, Fox, or Sonic. Works at both low and high percentages.

    There does not appear to be a reliable follow up for the air version of sideB. You can combo thunder punch or down tilt if the opponent doesn't have an immediate reaction, otherwise they recover too quickly; seems your better off doing what Shin suggests, a short hop down aerial to punish get-up attacks or play tech chase some more on them.

    Over the next few days I'm going to test if you can do a down tilt after the sideB. Unfortunately I do not have a human opponent to help me, but a lvl 9 CPU does not appear to be able to escape from this. Seems to work even on chars the thunder punch follow up doesn't work on. If this works it could be huge: sideB becomes a kill move at high percentages and a combo starter at low percentages, since down tilt launches.
    EDIT: Nope, doesn't seem to work on human opponents, as far as I can tell, too bad.

    His up tilt's range is amazing, I used it a few times successfully as an edge-guarding tool even. I managed to bomb Ike 5-6 times when he tried to recover from beneath the stage with this, hit him out of his upB just before he grabs the edge while still remaining out of the range of the sword throw. It's a shame I don't have recording equipment, it's pretty unreal what he can do with that move.

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