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Tier List Speculation

QWA

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
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191
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Everything Roy does should be on fire.

Edit: Especially his Wavedashes.

They need a fire trail.
This would certainly make down tilt cooler looking. Especially if you wavedash forward to create a fire trail, then catch the opponent on fire with a down tilt. Then if it's a fast faller, you can run up and grab then, and pummel/ throw them to keep them on fire.

I'm now sad that this will never happen.
 
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1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
807
I haven't been in this thread in a while... what is the current consensus for OP characters?

Are people still complaining about Fox?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I haven't been in this thread in a while... what is the current consensus for OP characters?

Are people still complaining about Fox?
much less, mostly because other characters are more problematic. to be fair, banning melee YS helped a lot (and frankly was a great idea)
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
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Well if when you stop complaining, the character stops being a problem, let me reiterate :
I still hate Fox with a passion, and wonder why I even play Project M whenever I have to play against him.

But yeah people grew tired of complaining/of people complaining. And as Umbreon said they found themselves new and bigger reasons to complain in Mewtwo, Lucas, Mario, Diddy etc...
 
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1MachGO

Smash Ace
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Messages
807
much less, mostly because other characters are more problematic. to be fair, banning melee YS helped a lot (and frankly was a great idea)
Yeah, his ledge dash on YS is wayyyy too good.

Not too surprised he has been eclipsed by other characters, though and I'm glad the complaining has died down. I swear, the way people used to **** about Fox on these boards you'd think they were jaded falcon mains.
 

Mera Mera

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
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372
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Neenah, WI
Actually the main problem characters have dealing with bananas is slow item throw animations. Roy's are over twice as long as Diddy's are.
This is true for Zard as well. I'll admit it makes sense cause Zard has small arms, but I think universalizing throw speeds (or making a smaller deviation between throw speeds) would be a better change than nerfing bananas. I think the item game is fun as hell and adds a lot of interesting and new depth to the matchups that use it... it's a shame that some characters can't really get into that part of the game even when fighting other item characters :/

I can understand Diddy having a better throw animation since he should have some advantages with the item he spawned, but it'd be nice if there were no characters with near unusable item throw speeds.

If Diddy needs a nerf to bananas even after that, so be it... but that's my two cents on the matter.
 
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InfinityCollision

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,245
Dark Pit top 10
Three things.

1) Wrong forum, this is the Project M section.
2) You just quoted a post that's almost 2 years old from the first page of a 500+ page thread.
3) There's an edit button, and you can multiquote by hitting reply to different posts.

(edit: not to mention it's really obvious you were just spamming your way to 10 so you could post a link)

Everything Roy does should be on fire.

Edit: Especially his Wavedashes.

They need a fire trail.
Roy's movement should leave a lingering fire trail that deals minor damage and hitstun. Who needs balance, Roy has ph1r3!
 
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trash?

witty/pretty
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also if you need more than five ledge grabs' worth of invincibility then you're almost definitely using the ledge for the reason that change happened
 

shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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Sheik beats Link as far as I know, or at least does decent against him.
I can see it being even at best on account of Sheik comboing the crap out of Link and not letting him back at all, but then you need to get in in the first place which is quite an ordeal when you have a boomerang in your face and little to swat it away or get around it.
 

InfinityCollision

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,245
How to get around Link's projectiles as Sheik:

Crouch.

Done!

I mean you can powershield/ftilt (rang) or AGT/needle (bombs) if you really want to, but Sheik's crouch/crawl is hilariously good in that matchup. Angled rang is a thing but not that big a deal, you still have options for that and you can read the angle if you're familiar with rang mechanics.
 
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Kati

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
1,471
The fire meteor isn't all that great unfortunately, when compared to Marth's.
Comparing clones can only get one so far. Meteors and spikes have different advantages, but the characters' diffferent physics alone makes them different beasts that can't just be clumped together for the sake of convenience.
 

_Chrome

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
549
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
So does anybody wanna talk about tier lists agian? I feel like the entire forum topic became totally derailed after a while... Anyways, which characters do you guys think need to be buffed, nerfed, or are perfect the way they are in terms of your overall vision of the final product?
 

DMG

Smash Legend
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DMG#931
Perfect:

Needs Buffs:

Needs Nerfs: *clears throat*
 

leekslap

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Perfect:

Needs Buffs:

Needs Nerfs: *clears throat*
Olimar, Ice Climbers, Yoshi, Sheik, Ganon, Luigi, and maybe Captain Falcon among a couple others really need buffs.

Pit, Sonic, Mewtwo, Diddy Kong, and Lucas need real nerfs while Link and Mario need very small tweaks. Maybe you can fix all o them with tweaks IDK. Nerfed recovery is like half the problem done.

Meta Knight, D3, Wario, Ike, Wolf, Zelda, Roy, and Falco are excellent design in my opinion.
 
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shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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>Zelda and Meta Knight are excellent design

I think Cfalcon is fine, personally. He doesn't lose hard to any character in particular that isn't already problematic across the board. Same for Sheik. Mario needs more than very small tweaks, the character has very few weaknesses, if any.
 

DMG

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I'm hyped for Falcon and Marth in 3.5 They might be playable chars then
 

Soft Serve

softie
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Please don't buff Olimar or Yoshi or luigi, they are fine and great
Just nerf the stupid and let the other characters show they are solid characters that get bogged down by jank
 
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RelaxAlax

That Smash Guy
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Olimar is good, sort of. Sometimes it's simply the opposition not knowing the matchup. When they start learning how to play him, Olimars appeal kinda decreases. He is good againest those middle-of-the-road characters, but against the Gods, he's severely outclassed.

Thing with Oli is if you add the slight wrong buff, he'll be Brawl Olimar on steroids. However, I'm not in the camp of Oli players who thinks he's fine as is. He needs some tweaks if he wants to be viable. Primarily wasting invincibility after respawn on plucking Pikmin, Pikmin being separated or not responding, the tether and people breaking out of grabs (before they're even reeled in cough cough).

I'd say hes notoriously placed at the bottom because everyone else says it so it must be true when nobody really explores the character and his potential and just yields to the popular belief held by others who may not know any better but have a voice that impacts the unknowing ears (this can be applied to Ganon and Yoshi too).
 

leekslap

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>Zelda and Meta Knight are excellent design

I think Cfalcon is fine, personally. He doesn't lose hard to any character in particular that isn't already problematic across the board. Same for Sheik. Mario needs more than very small tweaks, the character has very few weaknesses, if any.
My tweaks for Mario:
- laggier or shorter cape
- smaller up b hitbox with less priority
- maybe smaller f smash
- some kind of fireball nerf

Sheik just needs her old down throw considering many characters like Mario and Ness basically can do whatever they want with theirs. Maybe better side b chain thing or remove her down b chnage move like in smash 4.

I love Cap Falcon but if he had his 64 Falcon Punch, faster tilts, and lasting hitboxes using his fire, he would be off the charts with awesomeness.
Please don't buff Olimar or Yoshi or luigi, they are fine and great
Just nerf the stupid and let the other characters show they are solid characters that get bogged down by jank
Olimar has broken recovery, the worst survivabilty overall, too much need for setup, a confusing gimmick that's hard to keep track of, he can lose his recovery and most of his normals, surprisingly bad priority, he is clunky and stuck with his options, and he's luck based. If that doesn't sound like a bad character, then I don't know what is. Yeah his combos are great and his gimmick is fantastic if used right, but why if he can't even survive long enough for his pikmin to flower and stuff.

Yoshi doesn't 100% have his signature aMsa Melee stuff yet and he could do with a couple of small buffs here and there.

Luigi was a high mid tier at best from Melee and the standards have upped dramatically since then and he is barely changed.
 

leekslap

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Olimar is good, sort of. Sometimes it's simply the opposition not knowing the matchup. When they start learning how to play him, Olimars appeal kinda decreases. He is good againest those middle-of-the-road characters, but against the Gods, he's severely outclassed.

Thing with Oli is if you add the slight wrong buff, he'll be Brawl Olimar on steroids. However, I'm not in the camp of Oli players who thinks he's fine as is. He needs some tweaks if he wants to be viable. Primarily wasting invincibility after respawn on plucking Pikmin, Pikmin being separated or not responding, the tether and people breaking out of grabs (before they're even reeled in cough cough).

I'd say hes notoriously placed at the bottom because everyone else says it so it must be true when nobody really explores the character and his potential and just yields to the popular belief held by others who may not know any better but have a voice that impacts the unknowing ears (this can be applied to Ganon and Yoshi too).
What's up Alax? Love your videos! Yeah lacking MU knowledge is the primary reason Olimar doesn't get bodied all the time. I don't think it's because of bandwagon always-being-in-the-bottom, he was my very first PM main but even though I was really good and tried 200%, I lost a lot. His pros and cons are in my previous post. Ganon bodies low level players but starts falling behind at high level play. I don't think he's that unexplored, I mean, Vex went toe to toe with ZeRo and beat JReed and Cruzycakes ( top level mario and wario) and there's alot of good or bad PM Ganons. Yoshi is totally unexplored, especially since aMsa no longer mains him since he doesn't have the same Melee feel and techniques like parrying and the ledge egg thing.
EDIT: Also, forgot to mention that the buffs I suggested were fixing his unnecessary holes in viability like his recovery or managing pikmin so he wouldn't be broken.
 
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MLGF

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
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MK is not fine. Dat recovery is stupid, it needs to be hit hard.

*Coming from a MK player*
 

leekslap

Smash Ace
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MK is not fine. Dat recovery is stupid, it needs to be hit hard.

*Coming from a MK player*
No it's really not, this isn't Brawl. He just has a lot of options but they each have their pros and cons. Neutral b is most uesful for vertical and diagonal recovery if you can mash well, but it's darn near impossible to sweetspot the ledge and everything can beat it. Side b is mainly for sweetspotting the ledge horizontally, but it has little mobility and usefulness as an attack. Up b is hard to use and has very little vertical recovery potential, but it can be hard to edgeguard and a strong finisher/KO move in its own right. Down b should only be used for tricky ledge sweetspots but is generally not a good move for recovering unless you surprise them by IDCing them to get them off your case and it works especially well if it's a character like Ice Climbers or Dk who can't go offstage.
 

trash?

witty/pretty
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I'm gonna be down for 3.5, because I'm kirby and I'm going to have great recovery in a sea of recovery notably worse than mine

I'm salivating at the edgeguards, y'all

e: also I'm the one who knew MK was hardcore ridiculous since 2.6, and I can personally confirm he hasn't stopped being ridiculous currently
 
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shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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e: also I'm the one who knew MK was hardcore ridiculous since 2.6, and I can personally confirm he hasn't stopped being ridiculous currently
Why do so many people feel the need to point how long they've thought a character was ridiculous?
 
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