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~ The Wolf Matchup Center
- Thread starter Ishiey
- Start date
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
Yeah he has the best pummel in the game
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
if you pummel as fast as possible then only the first hit counts towards move refreshing. its still really useful at higher %'s
i think olimars pummel with white pikmin does like 5% a pummel o_O
i think olimars pummel with white pikmin does like 5% a pummel o_O
Wolf doesn't have the best pummel in the game, pretty sure Sonic has the best DPS. Also, move refreshing as GA said :< Pummel is still good, you should always get at least one in above low %s.
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
Close enoughhh xD
It refreshes moves...
Pummel is a move that most wolves do NOT practice.
Honestly getting that 5% added ontop of their 60% helps in the long run.
It refreshes moves...
Pummel is a move that most wolves do NOT practice.
Honestly getting that 5% added ontop of their 60% helps in the long run.
It's about stale moves, the game keeps track of the last 9 moves you used and the more times a move is in that list the weaker it will be and the less knockback it will do.
ALSO THIS IS NOT THE SOCIAL THREAD ASDVSERV please let's move all of this to the Social, imma lock this thread for a while k? K ;D
ALSO THIS IS NOT THE SOCIAL THREAD ASDVSERV please let's move all of this to the Social, imma lock this thread for a while k? K ;D
OKAY GUYS TIME TO START THIS UP AGAIN ;D
Since the BBR MU chart has been released, this gives us a good starting-off point for MUs we want to discuss. What on that chart doesn't make sense to you? Put in votes, and whatever we disagree on the most will be the next discussion :3
Since the BBR MU chart has been released, this gives us a good starting-off point for MUs we want to discuss. What on that chart doesn't make sense to you? Put in votes, and whatever we disagree on the most will be the next discussion :3
D
Deleted member
Guest
R.O.B. That's the main thing that sticks out for me.
Honestly, everything else doesn't look too bad, and the reason why Wario is listed as harder than D3 is obviously Choice's opinion, so I'm not thrown off as to the reasoning there.
Honestly, everything else doesn't look too bad, and the reason why Wario is listed as harder than D3 is obviously Choice's opinion, so I'm not thrown off as to the reasoning there.
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
-3:
-I don't agree. (-2) Don't get grabbed. Start shooting lasers in mid-close-close range against people who camp air AD all day, they will start taking damage and will have to approach.-I don't agree. (-1) Don't get grabbed, wolf destroys this character minus grabs in every phase of the game.-2:
-I don't agree. (-3) If any character trumps wolf, it's D3. His grab range makes "Don't get grabbed" insanely harder than Pika or Wario, and his Pivot grab is godly. His Bair is excellent and we can't really shine him in air if they fast fall properly.-1:
(all okay or I don't have enough experience against character to make an informed opinion)-Disagree (even). I get that he can gimp us and tilt us forever, but we can combo him too and shine is great too.0:
1:
2:
3:
-Disagree (even)-There aren't people I know of who have developed Mario well enough yet, but I'm telling you he is designed to shut down Wolf, so I'd put him at even based on my own paranoia. -Disagree (+4)-Wolf is a complete and total counter for Samus, we are talking **** proportions.
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 2,154
Shooting lasers doesn't stop wario. And even worse if you shoot them at a bad range he'll b able to get the grab in because he has mobility. He's as bad as -3, mayb -2. The reason why he's bad is cause even if he doesn't get the grab he's still capable to beat Wolf. The grab just adds to everything
Pika is right too, he still can compete with Wolf without the CG, loses but not that bad, the CG just gives him that adv and makes us have to play their style of game. Easier to keep out then the other two due to his grab range
And the ROB one I can agree too. Mainly because even though he can still get comboed easy (LOL DI) he has disjoints on most of his moves which is weird as ****, n i haven't really seen a good Wolf play a good ROB. His moves have REALLY good range to compete with Wolf's, his ftilt, fair, and his weird *** *** fuel moves. And also one of the only chars that can actually hassle wolf offstage legitly
Pika is right too, he still can compete with Wolf without the CG, loses but not that bad, the CG just gives him that adv and makes us have to play their style of game. Easier to keep out then the other two due to his grab range
And the ROB one I can agree too. Mainly because even though he can still get comboed easy (LOL DI) he has disjoints on most of his moves which is weird as ****, n i haven't really seen a good Wolf play a good ROB. His moves have REALLY good range to compete with Wolf's, his ftilt, fair, and his weird *** *** fuel moves. And also one of the only chars that can actually hassle wolf offstage legitly
big bad wolf
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 7, 2010
- Messages
- 396
Kain I have practiced with a lot of robs and it all come down to spacing , rob kill moves are very limited , if you out space robs or camp them hard they struggle versus wolf .
You're supposed to be in the air when you shoot lasers. Horizontal zoning beats vertical zoning. Wolf's Bair and Fair prevent Wario from approaching. Wario is like D3, in that they only destroy Wolfs who don't know the match-up or are sloppy in their spacing.
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 2,154
Pane I can understand that I guess it's jus how I feel against ROB I feel he has more options than people give him credit for but I can agree to the camping part being a plus for the MU
Turtl it's true your sposed to be in the air when you shoot lasers but their slow and Wario has full control in the air they usually AD thru most of them. I'm saying blaster isn't a reliable way to keep them out. Wolf's bair and fair don't necessarily stop Wario from approaching. Their good at keeping him out, but he can still get inside if he telegraphs one of your moves
Turtl it's true your sposed to be in the air when you shoot lasers but their slow and Wario has full control in the air they usually AD thru most of them. I'm saying blaster isn't a reliable way to keep them out. Wolf's bair and fair don't necessarily stop Wario from approaching. Their good at keeping him out, but he can still get inside if he telegraphs one of your moves
D
Deleted member
Guest
Honestly, I don't see where ROB's advantage on Wolf is. Wolf is good at juggling the crap out of him(isn't a bair combo up to 90% possible?) and also camping him. Though at the same time, I don't think Wolf beats ROB either, at least that's what I've gained from playing Sil. Though, he's a really smart player.
Either way, I think the MU should be even.
Either way, I think the MU should be even.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
O_O What....
D
Deleted member
Guest
I actually think it was you who told me that, Seagull. I honestly am not sure, and it's probably more that ROB can be combo'd with Bair before 90%, because the former just sounds impossible. lol
Edit: It could have been Bead as well.
Edit: It could have been Bead as well.
wolfs mus on the chart seem reasonable to me
wario with cg really is -3, without it its like -1 at worst.
rob and pit are 0 instead of -1
ic's might be 0
olimar might be 0
pika might be -2
pretty good chart imo
auspher:
im fairly confident such bair strings only work when started at around 10% + while rob is airborne. Bair must be fresh. If you wanna get 90% (lol really THAT much?) you're gonna need alot of stage.
ie: not gonna happen often
i attempt such bair combos fairly often but if the conditions arent exactly met bair is punishable on hit unless you retreat(and retreating definitely means not another bair)
wario with cg really is -3, without it its like -1 at worst.
rob and pit are 0 instead of -1
ic's might be 0
olimar might be 0
pika might be -2
pretty good chart imo
auspher:
im fairly confident such bair strings only work when started at around 10% + while rob is airborne. Bair must be fresh. If you wanna get 90% (lol really THAT much?) you're gonna need alot of stage.
ie: not gonna happen often
i attempt such bair combos fairly often but if the conditions arent exactly met bair is punishable on hit unless you retreat(and retreating definitely means not another bair)
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I agree with everything T said. Also D3 should be -3 and then it's pretty much perfect as far as matchups that matter go.
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
meh, choice did a terrible job. Wolf's only in C tier with this matchup chart -_____________-
WE WANT E TEIR!
WE WANT E TEIR!
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
So no one is going to talk about the travesty that is Samus being +2 when it's obviously +4.
D
Deleted member
Guest
So...any more votes?
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I wondered that too.
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
switch D3 with pika and the high tiers are perfect imo
then put ROB at a slight disadvantage and the whole list is great/accurate for wolf
then put ROB at a slight disadvantage and the whole list is great/accurate for wolf
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
i think wolf loses to everyone because I have a harder time with everyone else than i do in wolf dittoes and wolf dittoes are 50:50. Therefore wolf loses to everyone
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
pastorcollux with that fail proof logic again
Technodeath
Smash Champion
How could we have been so wrong?
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
hmm good point. i think that should be the matchup we should discuss next
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
beat me to it
-3 troll points
I think we should discuss D3
+1 troll point
Serious Vote: Falco or MK
That'd mean Wolf loses to Wolf making all his match-ups even worse than we thought before.
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
wolf does lose to wolf, port priority and tiered colors. white and green wolf can't be beat
-_______________________-
I'm surprised nobody brought up G&W. There's no way Wolf loses to either him or ROB, imo. But it seems like ROB has the most votes so far so I'll try to get that export running in the near future ;D
Also, so that we can provide more accurate feedback to the BBR, I'm going to make a new thread with Wolf's spread where everyone can make a post stating what they disagree with and why. That way, the BBR can get some community feedback for version 2 ;D
I'm surprised nobody brought up G&W. There's no way Wolf loses to either him or ROB, imo. But it seems like ROB has the most votes so far so I'll try to get that export running in the near future ;D
Also, so that we can provide more accurate feedback to the BBR, I'm going to make a new thread with Wolf's spread where everyone can make a post stating what they disagree with and why. That way, the BBR can get some community feedback for version 2 ;D
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
ok ish *rolls eyes* we'll try to do some work, just for you 
i have a couple opinions on the spread now but its pretty good so far
i have a couple opinions on the spread now but its pretty good so far
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I lost to Stingers and beat Chibo. I'm going to play Stingers again on the 19th. A Rob that can continuously beat Bair wall with his Fair, projectile camp, and space well can give Wolf trouble.-_______________________-
I'm surprised nobody brought up G&W. There's no way Wolf loses to either him or ROB, imo. But it seems like ROB has the most votes so far so I'll try to get that export running in the near future ;D
Also, so that we can provide more accurate feedback to the BBR, I'm going to make a new thread with Wolf's spread where everyone can make a post stating what they disagree with and why. That way, the BBR can get some community feedback for version 2 ;D
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
i think i know the rob matchup better than any wolf player tbh.
although i'd probably beat any active rob player, he might actually have a slight advantage over us due to some unwinnable counterpicks he has. Otherwise it's close to even on neutrals
also, gull. stop bair walling. it's noob
ALso, the joebot (the rob player who slays wolf worse than turtle) talked about the matchup during the rob matchup discussions on wolf which i still believe holds true today
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7849762&postcount=33
although i'd probably beat any active rob player, he might actually have a slight advantage over us due to some unwinnable counterpicks he has. Otherwise it's close to even on neutrals
also, gull. stop bair walling. it's noob
ALso, the joebot (the rob player who slays wolf worse than turtle) talked about the matchup during the rob matchup discussions on wolf which i still believe holds true today
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7849762&postcount=33
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
I thought GnW was a cakewalk, then I got ***** by chuck nasty. The end.
Wait a second.
Wolf has unwinnable CPs vs ROB? If I ban RC, what stage can he take me to that's really so far in his favor? @_@
Wolf has unwinnable CPs vs ROB? If I ban RC, what stage can he take me to that's really so far in his favor? @_@
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Frigate Orphean.Wait a second.
Wolf has unwinnable CPs vs ROB? If I ban RC, what stage can he take me to that's really so far in his favor? @_@
I don't Bair Wall much anymore JJ. It's still really good though and people fall for it, but I know it's only really useful verse like low tiers and Snake lmao.