~ The Wolf Matchup Center

[MegaRobMan]

I'd say it's 53-47 Wolf, this is because Wolfs fair beats everything Marth can throw IIRC, I have NEVER played a legit excellent Marth main, though I've played a few really good secondary Marths.

 

[Gah777]

53-47? lol what is this, the Pika boards? I'd say Wolf:Marth is 50:50. Their range, playstyle, etc. aren't too far apart and they are really good at punishing each other. From my experiences (no true Marth mains in AZ either lol) in the air it comes down to timing. If one attacks too quickly he gets punished, but if you wait too long to attack you get punished. On the ground jab is amazing, but watch out for d-tilt and Dancing Blade shenanigans. Marth has really good kill potential (tippers), but Wolf is kinda heavy. Marth is kinda light, but Wolf doesn't have the best kill power, so you'll be killing each other around the same time. Offstage Marth has the advantage. He's floatier and has some decent gimping options (n-air, f-air, and possibly DB1). Wolf does have one thing Marth doesn't: a projectile, so use it to pressure him.

50-50 overall.

 

[Ishiey]

I know that there are very few Wolf players in the BBR, but Choice told me that he has it under control ;D Once those MU discussions come out, we can basically clean up the information if there's anything that non-BBR members feel was missed out on.

Also, yeah what everyone else said about Marth, about even.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Everyone in the BBR will say they beat Wolf other then Low tiers (Who am I kidding, even some Low tiers think they go even with us). Whatever matchup spread is produced will be trash.

 

[MegaRobMan]

The only character that is lower on the tier list that beats Wolf is Sheik IMO.
Maybe Ike in the hands of MR. Doom, lulz, but that's just him being a better player.
Squirtle is garbage ftw.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone in the BBR will say they beat Wolf other then Low tiers (Who am I kidding, even some Low tiers think they go even with us). Whatever matchup spread is produced will be trash.

I hate to say it, but I think this is inevitable. That's why I'd rather we just start up exports/finish the ones we started again, because what they say doesn't even matter half the time, nor is it true.

 

[Seagull Joe]

The only character that is lower on the tier list that beats Wolf is Sheik IMO.
Maybe Ike in the hands of MR. Doom, lulz, but that's just him being a better player.
Squirtle is garbage ftw.

Wolf beats Ike 60-40. Once you get him off stage, it's death.

Wolf vs Sheik is a close matchup, but it's slightly Sheik's favor and I don't think she's low tier.

 

[Ishiey]

Have some faith in the BBR, Seagull. While we all basically know for a fact that there will be numerous flaws, they're doing work hardcore. Once it comes out, we'll do our part as the rest of the community to help clear up the things that need to be cleared up.

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

The only character that is lower on the tier list that beats Wolf is Sheik IMO.
Maybe Ike in the hands of MR. Doom, lulz, but that's just him being a better player.
Squirtle is garbage ftw.

squirtle aint garbage espically when reflex is usin him trust me I know

 

[MegaRobMan]

Ganondorf isn't garbage when DLA plays him, doesn't mean he's a good character, just means someone took enough time to develop their own playstyle for a bad character. I also just hate on Pokemon for no reason.

 

[_Kain_]

Dood Squirtle is high tier...what are you talking about?....

 

[Arrows]

Can anyone find me vids of Wolf vs Olimar that aren't
Kain vs Logic
and Seagull vs Logic?

I honestly can't find any other ones....

 

[Ishiey]

Espy has some vs Denti, but this thread isn't the place to ask about that. Use the video thread ;D

 

[Seagull Joe]

Can anyone find me vids of Wolf vs Olimar that aren't
Kain vs Logic
and Seagull vs Logic?

I honestly can't find any other ones....

I hate Olimar. He can do a 60-70% combo on Wolf under certain conditions...

Conditions:

Dthrow 2x>Usmash (It's white)>Usmash again>Uair. The Uair can be Di'd obviously, but this still does massive damage. Gotta hope you don't get hit with a white first on the Usmash.

 

[Abel1994]

Where can I find Wolf match up to see the best threw worst?

 

[Arrows]

Errr we haven't compiled a complete matchup thread yet Abel....

but generally our worst matchups are
King DDD
Wario
Pikachu
Ice Climbers

Because they can all chaingrab.

Our best ones are Ganondorf etc etc. low tiers

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ice Climbers are nowhere near our worst match-up.

Wario is our worst match-up, that's not even debatable. Stages and other gimmicks can't safe us.
DDD is very hard but if we find ways to time him out there's a chance we can beat him.
Pikachu is no problem if we could use the handicap ... without handicap I don't know it enough.

Snake is worse than ICs for us, as is Sheik.

 

[Reyney]

Wolf slightly wins it in my opinion. My experience against Marth is a bit outdated I admit but I'm hoping to play Mr-R soon to see how I'll do.

u should know u can't take a match vs mr.r as guideline for the MU because he is a better player than you by far.
no offence

 

[~ Gheb ~]

LOL no offence taken. That's like saying "M2K is better than you, no offence" XD
And I can tell if somebody outplays me or if somebody abuses the match-up. I just have to actually play it more.

 

[Seagull Joe]

LOL no offence taken. That's like saying "M2K is better than you, no offence" XD
And I can tell if somebody outplays me or if somebody abuses the match-up. I just have to actually play it more.

I think it's "No offense" with an S rofl. Offence is breaking the law. I still don't find Wario that bad. The matchup is even without the cg for the most part. His gimmicks are easy to see coming.

Ice Climbers are nowhere near our worst match-up.

Wario is our worst match-up, that's not even debatable. Stages and other gimmicks can't safe us.
DDD is very hard but if we find ways to time him out there's a chance we can beat him.
Pikachu is no problem if we could use the handicap ... without handicap I don't know it enough.

Snake is worse than ICs for us, as is Sheik.

I still think D3 is worst. D3 can infinite too and his is legal on Wolf. D3 you need to play a perfect game or risk everything. Wario can't cg us across the stage to a released Bair>Bair kill almost always or kill us early with Utilt. He is also super ****ing heavy. Our gimmicks can NEVER be used on him because the risks outweight the reward in almost every scenario. Wario's cg is rare for Wario's to do it and the matchup still is just constant Wolf zoning. Wario vs Wolf is even without cg too. Generally, I enjoy versing Wario players because they all use gimmicks like SHAD behind or near. I just shield if they do it out of grab range of grab them rofl.

I wanna play MalCUM Mcnutty again. I'm pretty sure MalCUM is going to Pound 5. I'll get some friendlies and maybe a MM recorded.

Snake is debatable as to how the matchup is, but I only think it's 45-55 because of his sheer weight at this point. If Wolf could reliably kill him earlier then the matchup would be even. Bair wall vs Snake=too good. Weight and his Utilt killing Wolf around 110 with amazing DI. Honestly, Snake might be considered worst then Sheik for Wolf. She is so much easier to play against then Snake. Both matchups are 45-55, but learning the Sheik matchup takes a lot less time and her recovery is ***.

Pikachu is gay. I hate that rat.

u should know u can't take a match vs mr.r as guideline for the MU because he is a better player than you by far.
no offence

Errr we haven't compiled a complete matchup thread yet Abel....

but generally our worst matchups are
King DDD
Wario
Pikachu
Ice Climbers

Because they can all chaingrab.

Our best ones are Ganondorf etc etc. low tiers

Ics aren't bad for us. WE CAN APPROACH WITHOUT GETTING GRABBED. WE AREN'T FAWKS.

/caps

 

[Ishiey]

Not that this matters at all, but if I had to rank these MUs from worst to best it'd go something like...

D3
Pika/Wario
Snake
ICs/Sheik/Falco

Because Snake is a *****. ICs/Sheik/Falco are all around neutral territory at high levels, except idk really about Sheik because there are so few high-level Sheik mains that I've never seen anything close to a top-level representation of the MU. D3 is the worst for the reasons that Seagull said, mostly. Wario/Pikachu aren't as bad because they can't grab you so easily (setups don't work when you have proper SDI, much smaller grab range), and they're also easier to kill. Snake is a *****.

EDIT: I KEEP THINKING THAT THIS IS THE SOCIAL DSKVSKDMVEKRGME

 

[Laem]

although i agree that wario is fairly even (without CG, cuz be honest, its like nair > grab > death or like 140%, same thing), it sounds like you're underestimating him.
ALOT.

and yes snake is tough
gull do u still think some snake we've never heared of (kenny was it??) could beat every wolf player.
It seems contradictory with a 45-55 MU.

 

[Ishiey]

I mean, I've never played a top Wario, but I have played Warios. And it's really not so bad :x Shine > almost everything that isn't fsmash, usmash OoS on every badly spaced aerial (or just crouch > shine/shield > dtilt/OoS punishment lol, works better in theory than in practice though ), fair/bair horizontally outrange all of his aerials, uair > his dair, SDI out of his dair/nair to avoid combo ****, don't get uair'd. Obviously it's not that simple lol, but I really don't feel like Wario is so bad outside of the CG. He lives longer than I'd like him to though :/

To be honest we probably only say Snake is 45:55 because he doesn't have a CG on us LOL xD it probably is closer to 60:40, but soon we'll be using a different MU standard because of the BBR project, the +- system, so we should get out of the habit of using numbers. 0 = neutral, +- 1 = soft counter, +- 2 = counter, +- 3 = hard counter, +- 4 = gg (iirc)

 

[_Kain_]

Snake sucks though. He's like the easiest character to get roof KO's on especially if you knock him offstage at pretty high percent, he's gonna DJ then go right into cypher it's one of the easiest things to read

 

[Ishiey]

Getting a good Snake offstage isn't as easy as I'd like it to be :< On neutrals I feel like Snake has a solid advantage, but with CPs it becomes a lot better.

Quick poll, who thinks that camping Snake more or less the whole match is a good idea? Because I mean, if you have good control of shine and instant throwing, all you need to do is watch out for grenade stripping and you can kinda hold your own unless the Snake is really intelligent (grenade stripping sucks).

 

[tekkie]

Snake sucks though. He's like the easiest character to get roof KO's on especially if you knock him offstage at pretty high percent, he's gonna DJ then go right into cypher it's one of the easiest things to read

if he has any vertical height, i.e. you didnt just dthrow him at like 100 then he can stay far enough from the stage and get high up enough quick enough that it isnt that dangerous for him

besides he can always just c4 back to the stage its not like %20 or whatever matters when youre snake

 

[Seagull Joe]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[Seagull Joe]

although i agree that wario is fairly even (without CG, cuz be honest, its like nair > grab > death or like 140%, same thing), it sounds like you're underestimating him.
ALOT.

and yes snake is tough
gull do u still think some snake we've never heared of (kenny was it??) could beat every wolf player.
It seems contradictory with a 45-55 MU.

K9 used to use Wolf so he knows exactly how to punish Wolf. He still uses Wolf sometimes in dubz.

It's basically the concept where you use your character for so long that you know all of his flaws and can exploit his weaknesses easily with another character like Snake as an example. I still beat Kenny's Snake most of the time with other characters, but very rarely with Wolf. Oh and he also uses Pikachu so I just go Mk most of the time.
I don't think Nair>Grab is even a true combo with Wario. I'm pretty sure you can jab before the grab. Can someone ask Malcolm/Kain/JJ/Choice/Someone with alot of Wario vs Wolf exp who knows if that actually combos please? I'd do it, but internet on my phone is limited at the moment.

 

[Abel1994]

how would wolf do against falco? PLEASE BE GOOD!

 

[Goldenadept]

wolf/falco is 55:45 falco's favor. pretty much even.

falco has his CG>spike or CG>follow up for % racking, a jab that ***** and a bair that lasts forever, plus his lasers for a crazy good pressure game.

wolf can keep up with falco well and kill earlier, if you're playing safe then falco is going to have a hard time killing you.
i'm pretty sure wolf can gimp falco way easier than falco can wolf

 

[Abel1994]

Whats gimp and yes I am use to fighting falco all the time with pit so I am used to the CG **** but I wanna know if my shield can stop the CG in the middle?

 

[Laem]

Quick poll, who thinks that camping Snake more or less the whole match is a good idea? Because I mean, if you have good control of shine and instant throwing, all you need to do is watch out for grenade stripping and you can kinda hold your own unless the Snake is really intelligent (grenade stripping sucks).

Doesn't really sound like a good idea to me.
snake is like one of the easiest characters to get alot of hits on once you get that first one
i myself try to abuse this to the max
but heck
im european.

 

[Goldenadept]

to gimp someone is to hit them away from the stage while they're already offstage to ensure that they can't get back.

nothing can stop falco's cg once he's got you in it. it goes to about 40% then a follow up if it ends when you're onstage.
if the CG ends offstage he'll probably try and spike you. you can SDI it into the stage though

 

[Abel1994]

lol im so used to gimp cous of pits arrow and yea ill try gimpin with wolf now.

 

[Arrows]

For falco:

Personally, I think it depends on your strengths and weaknesses.
If you're extremely good at not getting grabbed and camping like hell, I think it's even advantageous for wolf.
However if you tend to take risks and get grabbed more often it's more like 60-40 falco.

However, I think it's general consensus that wolf is better after 45%

 

[Goldenadept]

wolfs best gimping tools are either Bair or shine, the strong hit of Nair can work too since its usually fresh

 

[Ishiey]

Doesn't really sound like a good idea to me.
snake is like one of the easiest characters to get alot of hits on once you get that first one
i myself try to abuse this to the max
but heck
im european.

I agree with your logic, but how do you hit Snake in the first place on a neutral stage, it just never works out for me ;__; bleh.

 

[Arrows]

Camp like hell whilst slowly getting closer to him
Lasering a nade right after he throws it gives him 13% and you a free opening to approach
At the same time avoid nades and destroy them with shine
Bair air when you get closer

You just have to play really precise :S

 

[Goldenadept]

SHAD grabbing nades helps a lot for me, learning to insta throw is good too

can you shine nades as they're flying at you?

shining mortars as you're coming down is helpful too cause then the snake needs to look out for that as well as you coming back to the stage. i think that only works when the mortar shell is flying up, not down

 

[Arrows]

Shining nades coming at you destroys them while you don't take damage.