Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 the truth

[White_Mike]

To everyone saying "let him play!" :

I don't think you all realize how serious of an offense match fixing is in the competitive sports world. This is a big deal.

When you enter a competition, you are expected to play at the top of your game, because the end result of a bracket (in this case) is supposed to be a listing of players ranked in order of skill level. Money is being distributed, and in the case of our tournament system, all entrants to a tournament agree that money collected will be distributed to the top players, in order of ranking... with the assumption that the ranking will accurately reflect who legitimately earned that money. By attempting to fix a match, 2 or more players are essentially stealing money from other players, distributing the prize pot to players without consideration of the ranking. All players who enter the tournament are, then, having their money stolen. Swindled. They did not agree to a false distribution.

In this case, M2K has stated that he was feeling a bit "emo" and didn't want to play. What if this had happened in the match that would have decided 3rd and 4th place (or, who would fight ADHD)? M2K could have just split 3rd place prize and not played the match... but then, he wouldn't have played to the best of his ability, would have messed up the player ranking, would have contaminated the competition, AND would have taken prize money that all of the other entrants paid for, money that he didn't actually earn.

This is the problem with "splitting the pot". Splitting prize money, no matter WHAT the circumstances, is match fixing, plain and simple. Even if you say you're trying your hardest, on a subconscious level you KNOW you are getting money either way it goes, so you WILL NOT actually play your hardest. You will contaminate the player rankings.

And this affects much more than just the tournament rankings. It will affect Power Rankings. It will affect tournament points for your character. It could affect tier lists. It might make the Smash Lab's job harder if they want to use tournament results as data for something. It makes poster's jobs harder because they have to second guess tournament results when using them as arguments in discussions.

Splitting the pot / match fixing messes up a LOT of things, for the ENTIRE community. It's not harmless, and it's not innocent. It's dishonest, anti-competitive, and wrong. Flat out wrong.

This is why M2K can't play at Dallas. AND this is why ADHD can't, either. His partial agreement to even CONSIDER giving M2K part of the pot might have (and probably did) influenced M2K into not playing at the top of his game, skewing the rankings and earning ADHD more money than he might have otherwise. He's just as much at fault for even CONSIDERING splitting a pot.

I hope we, as a community, realize how serious of an offense this is. We should not allow our players to split pots. At all. Players who do so should not be allowed to compete. Period. This is a serious offense.

Sure the offense of match fixing is terrible and should be punished, but in this instance is it? It really didn't change anything. Not only that but both players didn't even agree to it and it wasn't until AFTER the match that ADHD offered to give him money. Why would M2K lose on purpose if he wasn't sure about getting the money? M2K is always out to get as much money as possible for school so throwing a match he could possibly win doesn't make much sense.

Also to your "What if?" situation, that doesn't matter because it isn't the case.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Chicago Black Socks

Basically a comparison in MLG's eyes. Yes, Jason wasn't paid to lose, but based on the previous conversation and the eventual agreement to give money, it basically is equivalent of not trying your best, as jack said.

This just goes in a circle of he said, she said if you look at it this way.

And how can you know how hard he tried unless you ask the person who played the set. Oh wait he already posted about what he did in the set.....

 

[The Real Inferno]

There are currently more people viewing this thread than were actually at the last MLG event. Jesus. Good to see you coming clean on it, man. It would have just brought more bad publicity on the whole community, this is the best decision you could have made.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

lol @ people saying he fixed the match. god you guys can't read.

 

[Space Jam]

To everyone saying "let him play!" :

I don't think you all realize how serious of an offense match fixing is in the competitive sports world. This is a big deal.

1) This is the problem with "splitting the pot". Splitting prize money, no matter WHAT the circumstances, is match fixing, plain and simple. Even if you say you're trying your hardest, on a subconscious level you KNOW you are getting money either way it goes, so you WILL NOT actually play your hardest. You will contaminate the player rankings.

2)Splitting the pot / match fixing messes up a LOT of things, for the ENTIRE community. It's not harmless, and it's not innocent. It's dishonest, anti-competitive, and wrong. Flat out wrong.

I hope we, as a community, realize how serious of an offense this is. We should not allow our players to split pots. At all. Players who do so should not be allowed to compete. Period. This is a serious offense.

(Numbers added in for easier reference)
1) You mention that you know you are getting money either way it goes. Well once you place top 8 you already know that you're getting money. Does that mean that people who place top 8 automatically "stop trying?" Also, what's to say that when someone agrees to split a pot that they won't play purely out of pride and not for the money?

2) This happens ALL THE TIME in the smash community. And I don't know of anyone that have significant complaints about this.

 

[M.K]

Yeah cheating has consequences but did M2K actually cheat?

Yes, he INTENDED to, but he said he played the set and tried his hardest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeRhhSXojEg

^Match in question. -_- (I believe, this was posted on an MLG forum and specified as the match in question)

The ethical thing about this isn't the fact that he a) tried his hardest or b) possibly maybe made an agreement. It's the same argument that could be said for a guy that robs a store to pay for his grandma's medication. The ethics behind them are no matter, its the actions that make the case what it is and the punishment should be dealt accordingly. I've read all of Ran's posts and I agree with them entirely.
What I feel is the biggest issue is the reflection upon the rest of the community. The best of the best involved in this? To me, this kinda just says "Um, it doesn't matter which of (insert best players here) wins, we're splitting money". Well of course that's not the issue, but look at it from an outsider looking in to the Smash community.
Regardless, this apology is heart-felt. It sure does take a lot of courage to speak the truth and make your apology known. Definitely give mad props for that. However, it doesn't/shouldn't take the punishment away.

Alot of people in this thread, similar to the last, do not have their facts straight and are operating with an inherently large bias. This is not the way to go.

 

[Enzo]

and this might as well be locked
cos its just a replica of the other one simply with
1) the truth being put out
or
2) another lie being put out

 

[Jack Kieser]

Sure the offense of match fixing is terrible and should be punished, but in this instance is it? It really didn't change anything. Not only that but both players didn't even agree to it and it wasn't until AFTER the match that ADHD offered to give him money. Why would M2K lose on purpose if he wasn't sure about getting the money? M2K is always out to get as much money as possible for school so throwing a match he could possibly win doesn't make much sense.

Sure, ti changes things. M2K said he was feeling emo, and didn't play his best because of it. Had ADHD not explicitly said "I'll think about it", M2K might have shaken it off and played his best. We don't know. that's why even the thought of match fixing is a punishable offense. You don't need to do it, only to conspire to it.

Also to your "What if?" situation, that doesn't matter because it isn't the case.

Sure it matters, because Smashers fix matches in the same way ALL THE TIME. Sometimes with more than just 2 players. People need to understand whether it's match 1, Grand Finals, or any match in between, if you fix a match, it's WRONG.

 

[Tesh]

If this same situation was caused by a another player, there wouldn't be any people defending them. Even the people that acknowledge his intent to cheat and his admission of lying about it want him to get a slap on the wrist.

 

[SOVAman]

*****. We need to blast on a mother ****er. **** the bull****. I'ma blow somebodies ****ing head off. I'm gonna go on some columbine type ****. Fucjk MLG. **** the Bull**** y'all putting out. If y'all don't wanna **** with Jason. Then y'all ****ing with the wrong dudes. This aint even a joke. Let me find out who is running the MLG. And there WILL be blood. Houston gonna shoot it up in the big D ya heard me?

madddd respect for this dude right here

also yea imma bring a couple of gats myself and raise hell in the venue lolol

stick a 40 gauge on his nut sac

spoiler:

Spoiler

jk dont ban me MLG

 

[EPsilon933]

ADHD didn't want to do it at first, but I figured that he would agree to it anyway since we always used to split in the past. He told me to just play and talk about it later. He never officially agreed, I was just pretty sure he would because of past tournaments, although I was pretty sure he would anyway.

What was ADHD thinking/intending when he said this?

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

good **** jason. come clean my d00

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Team M2k <3
Let him play :]

 

[Shady Penguin]

It's about the spirit of the law not the letter of the law Ran

Hell to the yes.

Let's ask ourselves here, who will benefit from ADHD and M2K being banned? Yeah, they broke the rules and they shouldn't have done that, but it's not like they're a threat to the scene or prone to do this type of thing again.

M2K carelessly did something that is normally considered acceptable in the smash scene and later realized that it was a big blunder, which he is now sorry for. Why keep him banned? Does anybody, even the people who don't particularly like the guy, honestly think he's going to try to rig matches again if we let him back in?

Also, unbanning M2K and ADHD will make everyone happier and make MLGs more exciting. You figure out what the right decision is.

If you want to strictly adhere to mumbo jumbo written on a piece of paper rather than using common sense and logic in deciding the outcome of this situation, you are seriously misguided.

 

[stingers]

Had ADHD not explicitly said "I'll think about it", M2K might have shaken it off and played his best.

LMFAO oh man.
every time I'm about to play someone I'm just gonna say "Yo man, we should split"

And get them banned from the next MLG

"But, but! They might play worse..."

great ****ing logic

better hope ally doesn't eat some walnuts before dallas. ally totally hates walnuts and that could totally ruin his day. he might not even play his best! can we ban walnuts from the venue please?

Let's ask ourselves here, who will benefit from ADHD and M2K being banned?

All the people that have a shot at winning now, lol.

 

[DallasPhat]

Dude.. if money never been exchanged between the two players then how is it fixing? Wyatt could of just been lying to M2K to throw him off his game.

 

[SOVAman]

LMFAO oh man.
every time I'm about to play someone I'm just gonna say "Yo man, we should split"

And get them banned from the next MLG

"But, but! They might play worse..."

great ****ing logic

better hope ally doesn't eat some walnuts before dallas. ally totally hates walnuts and that could totally ruin his day. he might not even play his best! can we ban walnuts from the venue please?


All the people that have a shot at winning now, lol.

o word?

 

[Jack Kieser]

(Numbers added in for easier reference)
1) You mention that you know you are getting money either way it goes. Well once you place top 8 you already know that you're getting money. Does that mean that people who place top 8 automatically "stop trying?" Also, what's to say that when someone agrees to split a pot that they won't play purely out of pride and not for the money?

First of all, most tournaments (not MLG, but in general) only pay out to Top 3, so even if just 2 people conspire to split the pot, that's still 2/3rds of the most important placings that have interference. That's bad. Secondly, the whole draw of MLG is supposed to be the best-of-the-best mentality. that mentality is undermined if we have a community built upon assuming that the top placers are going to always be the same, so **** it, let's just not play and split the pot. It's as anti-competitive as it comes. Whether it's top 3, top 8, whatever, players should play to the best of their ability. If you don't play because you have your own mental block, there's nothing anyone can do about that, so if someone makes top 8 and gives up because he knows he's getting money anyway, that's his choice.

It's when he TAKES SOMEONE ELSE'S PRIZE WINNINGS AFTERWARDS that it becomes a problem.

2) This happens ALL THE TIME in the smash community. And I don't know of anyone that have significant complaints about this.

And the fact that we allow it is appalling. We shouldn't be going "it happens all the time, so **** it, let him play." We should be saying "this happens all the time! Our community is corrupt! We aren't real athletes. This should be fixed as soon as possible."

 

[Player-1]

The Official MLG Rules clearly state that no players may engage in “intentional Forfeiting or conspiring to manipulate Rankings or Brackets,” with one of the possible penalties for such a violation being a competition ban.


-The rule says intentional ban, according to m2k's story it was not intentional on either their part's, this itself should get them unbanned. It MAY have been an intentional split on ADHD's part, but it wasn't an intentional to rig brackets.
-M2K offered the split to ADHD. ADHD never agreed to it, but instead said that he'd think about it. They played a SERIOUS set, M2K was trying, but just not confident. One of the hardest things to do not just in playing smash, but in life itself is overcoming a mental barrier, M2K can't really just say "You know what, I feel like being confident now". So as far as M2K knew there was only a CHANCE that ADHD would split with him, he just had a hunch, a gut feeling, a random guess, a chance of hope that ADHD would give him money. So even if ADHD had split with him after, m2k had no way of knowing if ADHD would do it for sure. So it wasn't a split since m2k didn't LET ADHD win, ADHD is just a nice guy and gave him $300.


that is all assuming m2k is telling the truth 100% this time (which I believe he is for the record). It also really depends on what ADHD says.

 

[M.K]

If you want to strictly adhere to mumbo jumbo written on a piece of paper rather than using common sense and logic in deciding the outcome of this situation, there is something wrong with you.

So, like, are you seriously just denouncing every written law almost ever created?
I don't understand this. You don't build up cred so that, when you **** up, you can just be like "Here's like 50 cred points, I'll take a pass to MLG Dallas now."
He's not exempt from punishment he agreed to when entering MLG sponsored tournaments. If this same thing had happened with low-profile players....well, I can't say it would be met with such hostility.

 

[Puffinator]

This is all Brawls fault somehow. I know it.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

MLG will obviously read this whole thread then make a final decision.

 

[MVD]

ummmm we really cant do anything about it and I highly doubt either of them would get unbanned, MLG pays the big bucks so we gotta deal with it, just play it out no matter what

 

[Yineinjeru]

Can we get an MLG official in here or somethin >.>

 

[MVD]

as if it would matter

 

[z00ted]

Let's ask ourselves here, who will benefit from ADHD and M2K being banned?

LOL

Everybodyami' Right?

 

[Shady Penguin]

So, like, are you seriously just denouncing every written law almost ever created?
I don't understand this. You don't build up cred so that, when you **** up, you can just be like "Here's like 50 cred points, I'll take a pass to MLG Dallas now."
He's not exempt from punishment he agreed to when entering MLG sponsored tournaments. If this same thing had happened with low-profile players....well, I can't say it would be met with such hostility.

I'm not dissing laws, I'm dissing unfair punishments based on laws.

Sure they may have broken a rule, but it's not like they're going to do this type of thing again and it's not like banning them is doing anybody a favor.

 

[KillerSOS]

I honestly think that MLG doesn't want SSB at their events. They are just using a tiny little scandal and blowing it way out of proportion.

Boycott MLG IMO.

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

I honestly think that MLG doesn't want SSB at their events. They are just using a tiny little scandal and blowing it way out of proportion.

Boycott MLG IMO.

please stop this now.

 

[ksizl4life]

I was debating splitting but then I said lets just see what happens and then i won. I just wanted to talk about split later. it wasnt my fault that he sandbagged. he just thought id do better vs rich brown right afterwards. he specifically told me i had a better shot vs rich brown and that he would lose but i didnt agree with that. and then after i won the tourney i told him id give him 300 dollars whenever id see him next. ive split multiple times in the past and i have no reason to degrade myself just so i can advance in bracket. i have probably the best record vs him besides anyone else.

its true that before i did try to save us both but I hid the fact that he did say he wanted to forfeit but i disagreed with it and afterwards wanted to help him.

~ ADHD

just in case there is any hearsay comments about this post he just asked me to make, hell back it up tomorrow morning. hes basically asking if theres a chance that he could get unbanned since both players cant SINCE HE DID NOTHING WRONG REALLY, thatd be great.

 

[KillerSOS]

please stop this now.

That's what they want you to say. Obviously they are an evil corrupt corp. that wants Halo to take over the world. We are just here to appease the masses.

 

[hippiedude92]

your trolling makes this community look digusting my niggy

 

[KillerSOS]

your trolling makes this community look digusting my niggy

I'm not trolling... take that back please.

 

[Space Jam]

First of all, most tournaments (not MLG, but in general) only pay out to Top 3, so even if just 2 people conspire to split the pot, that's still 2/3rds of the most important placings that have interference. That's bad. Secondly, the whole draw of MLG is supposed to be the best-of-the-best mentality. that mentality is undermined if we have a community built upon assuming that the top placers are going to always be the same, so **** it, let's just not play and split the pot. It's as anti-competitive as it comes. Whether it's top 3, top 8, whatever, players should play to the best of their ability. If you don't play because you have your own mental block, there's nothing anyone can do about that, so if someone makes top 8 and gives up because he knows he's getting money anyway, that's his choice.

It's when he TAKES SOMEONE ELSE'S PRIZE WINNINGS AFTERWARDS that it becomes a problem.



And the fact that we allow it is appalling. We shouldn't be going "it happens all the time, so **** it, let him play." We should be saying "this happens all the time! Our community is corrupt! We aren't real athletes. This should be fixed as soon as possible."

So just to get this straight, you are telling me that people only play video games just for money. Personally I play for the pride of being the best. Money is a side thing for me. (I'm not rich I just don't really care about money.)

" that mentality is undermined if we have a community built upon assuming that the top placers are going to always be the same, so **** it, let's just not play and split the pot."

Did you not watch Halo 2 during the FB Dynasty? They were basically undefeated for the whole Halo 2 timespan.

"so if someone makes top 8 and gives up because he knows he's getting money anyway, that's his choice."

HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENED? (That deserved caps in my eyes.)

"It's when he TAKES SOMEONE ELSE'S PRIZE WINNINGS AFTERWARDS that it becomes a problem."

At what point did he TAKE prize winnings? Wyatt chose to give him cash, for what reason we don't exactly know. They didn't sign a contract, or were bound in any way to this so called deal that they made.

As for the splitting thing amongst the community.
Do you have friends?
Do you know that you're better than your friends?
Do your friends know that you're better than them?
Have you competed against friends in a tournament?
Have you felt how ****ty it is to take money from someone you care about when you could not be a heartless ******* and split the pot with them so it's 100% fair? And then still play out the set without money in mind?

So, like, are you seriously just denouncing every written law almost ever created?
I don't understand this. You don't build up cred so that, when you **** up, you can just be like "Here's like 50 cred points, I'll take a pass to MLG Dallas now."
He's not exempt from punishment he agreed to when entering MLG sponsored tournaments. If this same thing had happened with low-profile players....well, I can't say it would be met with such hostility.

What he is saying is that we should look at things with less of a narrow view.

Or better put, the US Constitution is under review all the time because things change. Also, we have a court system to let us try laws on whether they are fair or not.

This is all Brawls fault somehow. I know it.

"SAKURAI!!!"

 

[sambo400]

MLG has been unfair about rules before, like 09 nationals and Hysterias Xbox crashing just as his team was gonna win the set. They had to replay and TD lost the whole set.

 

[M.K]

What he is saying is that we should look at things with less of a narrow view.

For what unbiased reason should we do this? Under a factual premise, what is the reason? I don't want qualitative analysis of M2K's character/behavior/this apology, for what premise should we disregard an agreed-upon signed-in-agreement rule that is supported by factual information?

 

[bigman40]

M2k, glad you came and told the truth, but since MLG made their decision, the most you can do is help spread the word so that Dallas is capped. That way, Brawl would have a decent chance of being in the circuit for next year.

Everything is all done now, so no point in feeling bad about it. Just don't let it happen again. The best thing you can do yourself now is try to help spread the word about Brawl needing to cap at Dallas so that Brawl has a decent chance of being in the circuit next year. I guess you could consider that as your "second chance."

 

[Life]

This whole thing is pointless as 90% of the people that posted have no clue what actually went down. (myself included)

I'm inclined to support ADHD/M2K though. Why?

Burden.
Of.
Proof.

What we definitely know is that ADHD beat M2K and ADHD gave M2K ~$300 after the match. The key thing we're missing is whether/how those two are correlated. And unless someone reliably could say ADHD's intent (and I don't think anyone that doesn't have some sort of stake in the results can) it becomes a matter of MLG's word versus ADHD/M2K's. In court, that doesn't work. But this is not court.

Ultimately MLG will do what is good for MLG in the long run, I suppose. Whether that means banning the two or not remains to be seen.

 

[SOVAman]

Yea just boycott MLG it's the only way to solve this

 

[KillerSOS]

This whole thing is pointless as 90% of the people that posted have no clue what actually went down.

I'm inclined to support ADHD/M2K though. Why?

Burden.
Of.
Proof.

What we definitely know is that ADHD beat M2K and ADHD gave M2K ~$300 after the match. The key thing we're missing is whether/how those two are correlated. And unless someone reliably could say ADHD's intent (and I don't think anyone that doesn't have some sort of stake in the results can) it becomes a matter of MLG's word versus ADHD/M2K's. In court, that doesn't work. But this is not court.

Ultimately MLG will do what is good for MLG in the long run, I suppose. Whether that means banning the two or not remains to be seen.

It's good for them because they obviously don't want Brawl next year. They want to replace it with that bad Reach game. At least they picked up SC2 so they get tiny bit of credibility.