Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 the truth

[Gnes]

1st bold - Why is that even an issue? M2K has lost to ADHD before.

2nd bold - What's the reason that you aren't allowed to decided where the money that you're already guaranteed to have goes?

R u being serious or r u really that shallow? Read his whole post, not just a few parts. It's the process of things that incriminate Jason and Wyatt. Jason asks for a split>Wyatt says I'll see>Jason loses>Wyatt offers him money after that.

These are the supposed facts. Intentions aside this is what's important.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

By the rules of MLG, he did something wrong by conspiring to change the outcome of the results. Then he attempted to cover it up, and manufacture another story to attempt to gain reentry. Once it was clear that he wasn't going to get back into MLG, he came clean to salvage his reputation. I find it hard to give any 'rep' for him coming out like this, since he already tried to make false stories about what happened.

Let this be a lesson. Don't tell people what you do with your money, ever.

Actually it seems to me like m2k knew he'd get 3rd wanted more money asked for a split. ADHD didn't agree tried to win beat him and said he'd give him 300 bucks. I don't see what the problem is....MLG should lift the ban.

 

[OverLade]

Seriously though, ADHD didn't do anything wrong, and shouldn't have been banned. I feel that Jason made a small unfortunate mistake, and while technically it's impossible to prove that he didn't intentionally lose, the smash community should hold nothing against him.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I still say that this **** is a very sad moment for Smash in itself .___.

 

[White_Mike]

Yeah cheating has consequences but did M2K actually cheat?

Yes, he INTENDED to, but he said he played the set and tried his hardest.

I guess the fact that he even intended to doesn't look good on his part.

I hope they let you play m2k, everyone knows how hard you've trained for this tournament.

 

[-Ran]

I feel that Jason made a small unfortunate mistake, and while technically it's impossible to prove that he didn't intentionally lose, the smash community should hold nothing against him.

Actually, the Smash community should be annoyed with M2k right now. He broke the rules, lied about it, and is only coming out with the truth after the lies failed to get him out of the situation. All this does is make Smash look worse.

<--- Emotionless rule robot.

 

[Flonomenalz]

Actually, the Smash community should be annoyed with M2k right now. He broke the rules, lied about it, and is only coming out with the truth after the lies failed to get him out of the situation. All this does is make Smash look worse.

<--- Emotionless rule robot.

You're probably right.

Except this isn't the time to say it.

 

[Space Jam]

By agreeing to give M2k any of the money, it shows that he was backing up the previously made agreement for M2k giving him the win. More so, ADHD opted to lie to officials once he was Dqed.

R u being serious or r u really that shallow? Read his whole post, not just a few parts. It's the process of things that incriminate Jason and Wyatt. Jason asks for a split>Wyatt says I'll see>Jason loses>Wyatt offers him money after that.

These are the supposed facts. Intentions aside this is what's important.

I understand that Wyatt gave Jason money. Everyone knows that after the post. However, they played their set out and it's not like Wyatt said "If you throw the set I'll give you money." He allegedly didn't directly agree to anything.

Also, it's only natural to lie to cover yourself. It's not pretty but everyone does it. If MLG came up to Jason or Wyatt and was like "Did you break a rule on purpose?" I would be dumbfounded if they looked and said "Yes." In my mind that would be the same as "Did you murder this person?" "Yes." They'd have to be insane to do something like that.

With that said, I'm not saying that they did anything wrong. In my eyes this whole situation got blown way out of proportion. These are tournaments for video games. We have come a crazy distance from where video game tournaments started, and in the smash community this is just a daily thing.

 

[stingers]

yo ran chill out...m2k did not know he was breaking any rules, and what he did would not even be considered an issue at any real smash tourney (not mlg)...so the community as a whole sympathizes with him because of it. add to the fact that m2k's just a likeable guy and kinda got screwed out of money he needed for college...i mean, yeah, I just feel bad for him. who wouldn't? except you, i guess

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Actually, the Smash community should be annoyed with M2k right now. He broke the rules, lied about it, and is only coming out with the truth after the lies failed to get him out of the situation. All this does is make Smash look worse.

<--- Emotionless rule robot.

It doesn't make sense look worse. It may make him look worse as a person. However, I don't think smashers should be looked down upon because of the actions of one person.

Hypothetically speaking let's say they agreed on a split why would that be a problem. I saw a magic tournament where they split 1st and 2nd and they even told people they were splitting no problem instead of first getting 2k and 2nd getting 600 it was split 1500 for first and 1k for second. Something like that. The problem I'd have if M2k told ADHD he'd lose to him if he gave him 300 dollars that would be a problem. Splitting their prize shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

[Thebest1pj]

why can't all you ****ers viewing this thread reg for mlg? We'd ****ing cap sons!

quoted for the ****ing truth

 

[•Col•]

By agreeing to give M2k any of the money, it shows that he was backing up the previously made agreement for M2k giving him the win. More so, ADHD opted to lie to officials once he was Dqed.

But M2k and ADHD said there wasn't even a previous agreement? :/ When M2k asked him to split, ADHD said he didn't want to, and then they played out the set 4 realz.

So yeah, I don't exactly see how giving money to your friend falls under "intentional Forfeiting or conspiring to manipulate Rankings or Brackets".

 

[Laurel]

so is m2k punished on INTENTION? because if this really is truth then nothing wrong ever actually occurred.

 

[-Ran]

No, these tournaments are competitions that are attempting to become more popular than sports. Smash for us isn't a matter of Mario beating Luigi, it's players going against each other for vast sums of money. Every step of the way they made bad choices, which they are being punished for. Furthermore, by stating that they have previously lied, any testimony they have now about the situation is thrown out. They've altered the story once, who is to say that the current one is the truth?

From the eyes of MLG, you have two players that have stated they had an agreement in the works, a player that promised to give money to another one after the event, and finally two players that decided to lie about the events that took place. As a business, MLG gains nothing by allowing them back in.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

yo ran chill out...m2k did not know he was breaking any rules, and what he did would not even be considered an issue at any real smash tourney (not mlg)...so the community as a whole sympathizes with him because of it. add to the fact that m2k's just a likeable guy and kinda got screwed out of money he needed for college...i mean, yeah, I just feel bad for him. who wouldn't? except you, i guess

Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. How bout you read your contract before you sign it?

 

[OverLade]

yo ran chill out...m2k did not know he was breaking any rules, and what he did would not even be considered an issue at any real smash tourney (not mlg)...so the community as a whole sympathizes with him because of it. add to the fact that m2k's just a likeable guy and kinda got screwed out of money he needed for college...i mean, yeah, I just feel bad for him. who wouldn't? except you, i guess

Stingers keeping it real.

 

[Toneh]

unban ADHD at least

 

[Space Jam]

No, these tournaments are competitions that are attempting to become more popular than sports. Smash for us isn't a matter of Mario beating Luigi, it's players going against each other for vast sums of money. Every step of the way they made bad choices, which they are being punished for. Furthermore, by stating that they have previously lied, any testimony they have now about the situation is thrown out. They've altered the story once, who is to say that the current one is the truth?

From the eyes of MLG, you have two players that have stated they had an agreement in the works, a player that promised to give money to another one after the event, and finally two players that decided to lie about the events that took place. As a business, MLG gains nothing by allowing them back in.

Yup, because once you say you've lied once, you're a perpetual liar. Makes perfect sense.

Haha hold on, MLG gains nothing by allowing them back in? Didn't you or someone else say that MLG was using Jason as it's mascot for Brawl?

 

[-Ran]

Ignorance of a rule isn't cause for immunity.

Once you've lied once to the organization that writes the checks, then your word is worthless to them. You need to remove your viewpoint from an outsider, and look at it from the eyes of MLG's officials.

 

[OmniOstrich]

It's about the spirit of the law not the letter of the law Ran

 

[Sinister Slush]

Why're people still going on about this? M2K admitted the truth and so on then a random Yoshi main comes in saying they should go on a mass murder.
Anyways M2K and ADHD are banned fron Dallas from what I read but they'll get their money still.

...I don't know who this guy is, though. I thought only me and Slush were the Yoshi mains in Texas.

**** Yeah

 

[theunabletable]

I'ma ask again.

What did ADHD do wrong?

I can see banning M2K, but I don't see why ADHD should be banned for M2K breaking the rules.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yup, because once you say you've lied once, you're a perpetual liar. Makes perfect sense.

Na, but how many times does someone have to lie to you to stop believing anything they say?

 

[hippiedude92]

Oh well wyatt.

LET'S GO WIN POUND 5 K BRUH?

 

[Raziek]

yo ran chill out...m2k did not know he was breaking any rules, and what he did would not even be considered an issue at any real smash tourney (not mlg)...so the community as a whole sympathizes with him because of it. add to the fact that m2k's just a likeable guy and kinda got screwed out of money he needed for college...i mean, yeah, I just feel bad for him. who wouldn't? except you, i guess

Ignorance is never an excuse, they signed contracts...

Am I like the only one who reads all the fine print these days? You'd be surprised what's in a lot of EULA's, TOS's and more.

 

[gallax]

Ignorance of a rule isn't cause for immunity.

Once you've lied once to the organization that writes the checks, then your word is worthless to them.

This is the truth. Happens all the time irl.

And i do not agree with letting adhd back in. He had the intention of giving jason money after the fight which means that some form of cheating was invloved at his level. If wyatt gave jason money solely because jason need money it would be a different story.

 

[-Ran]

I'ma ask again.

What did ADHD do wrong?

I can see banning M2K, but I don't see why ADHD should be banned for M2K breaking the rules.

As mentioned before, by saying that he was going to give M2k money, it showed a level of honoring the previous agreement. Then coming out and telling lies further caused harm to ADHD. Had ADHD instead just decided to cover himself by telling the truthh, he would most likely be able to compete at MLG Dallas.

Organizations such as MLG do not believe in the SPIRIT of the law. They have to be a machine that operates only within the rules that they have written. They cannot have ambiguous dealings whenever they are trying to give out a hundred thousand in prices a year. If you walk the line, you will be counted on the side that is breaking the rules.

 

[Tesh]

M2K is only apologizing now to save himself or at the very least save ADHD. Do you really think he would be apologizing if neither of them had been punished? He already said his first response was to lie, what makes you think this isn't another lie?

 

[stingers]

Ignorance of a rule isn't cause for immunity.

who ever said it was...wow I mean I can post lots of big words and smart-sounding statements too but if it doesn't prove anything then who cares. i do believe m2k is genuinely sorry, but i don't really think he should be let back into dallas...

very few people are saying that M2K should be let back on because he's sorry, anyone who thinks m2k should be back on are just saying it because the rule is ****ing ******** and doesn't even really apply to this match.

and yes adhd should be let back on no matter what, but whatever, I guess they're "all perpetual liars" or something. i suppose m2k and adhd deserve to witness whoever ends up winning this tournament, throwing a party with all of the money they won, and flying out famous smashers for this party, and then they just shouldn't be invited, so you can really drive home what a terrible crime they've committed.

 

[Jack Kieser]

To everyone saying "let him play!" :

I don't think you all realize how serious of an offense match fixing is in the competitive sports world. This is a big deal.

When you enter a competition, you are expected to play at the top of your game, because the end result of a bracket (in this case) is supposed to be a listing of players ranked in order of skill level. Money is being distributed, and in the case of our tournament system, all entrants to a tournament agree that money collected will be distributed to the top players, in order of ranking... with the assumption that the ranking will accurately reflect who legitimately earned that money. By attempting to fix a match, 2 or more players are essentially stealing money from other players, distributing the prize pot to players without consideration of the ranking. All players who enter the tournament are, then, having their money stolen. Swindled. They did not agree to a false distribution.

In this case, M2K has stated that he was feeling a bit "emo" and didn't want to play. What if this had happened in the match that would have decided 3rd and 4th place (or, who would fight ADHD)? M2K could have just split 3rd place prize and not played the match... but then, he wouldn't have played to the best of his ability, would have messed up the player ranking, would have contaminated the competition, AND would have taken prize money that all of the other entrants paid for, money that he didn't actually earn.

This is the problem with "splitting the pot". Splitting prize money, no matter WHAT the circumstances, is match fixing, plain and simple. Even if you say you're trying your hardest, on a subconscious level you KNOW you are getting money either way it goes, so you WILL NOT actually play your hardest. You will contaminate the player rankings.

And this affects much more than just the tournament rankings. It will affect Power Rankings. It will affect tournament points for your character. It could affect tier lists. It might make the Smash Lab's job harder if they want to use tournament results as data for something. It makes poster's jobs harder because they have to second guess tournament results when using them as arguments in discussions.

Splitting the pot / match fixing messes up a LOT of things, for the ENTIRE community. It's not harmless, and it's not innocent. It's dishonest, anti-competitive, and wrong. Flat out wrong.

This is why M2K can't play at Dallas. AND this is why ADHD can't, either. His partial agreement to even CONSIDER giving M2K part of the pot might have (and probably did) influenced M2K into not playing at the top of his game, skewing the rankings and earning ADHD more money than he might have otherwise. He's just as much at fault for even CONSIDERING splitting a pot.

I hope we, as a community, realize how serious of an offense this is. We should not allow our players to split pots. At all. Players who do so should not be allowed to compete. Period. This is a serious offense.

 

[RATED]

bye Brawl in the next MLG circuit.

 

[Tagxy]

As mentioned before, by saying that he was going to give M2k money, it showed a level of honoring the previous agreement. Then coming out and telling lies further caused harm to ADHD. Had ADHD instead just decided to cover himself by telling the truthh, he would most likely be able to compete at MLG Dallas.

Organizations such as MLG do not believe in the SPIRIT of the law. They have to be a machine that operates only within the rules that they have written. They cannot have ambiguous dealings whenever they are trying to give out a hundred thousand in prices a year. If you walk the line, you will be counted on the side that is breaking the rules.

As far as I know he never lied. All his posts have been the same. He also never agreed to give money before hand, m2k must have said that 5 times.

 

[Space Jam]

First off. I'm pretty what's going here is relative to this picture,http://blogs.westword.com/showandtell/010haters.jpg .

Second, it sounds like the "officials" are just looking to put down M2K and ADHD. This goes way overboard in my eyes.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

who ever said it was...wow I mean I can post lots of big words and smart-sounding statements too but if it doesn't prove anything then who cares

very few people are saying that M2K should be let back on because he's sorry, anyone who thinks m2k should be back on are just saying it because the rule is ****ing ******** and doesn't even really apply to this match.

and yes adhd should be let back on no matter what, but whatever, I guess they're "all perpetual liars" or something. i suppose m2k and adhd deserve to witness whoever ends up winning this tournament, throwing a party with all of the money they won, and flying out famous smashers for this party, and then they just shouldn't be invited, so you can really drive home what a terrible crime they've committed.

No matter how crappy a rule is the rules are the rules. No one forced m2k to sign the contract. If you do sign a contract you have to abide by what's in the contract. You can't do whatever the hell you want to and then say opps I didn't really read the contract. I'm sorry man but this is real life ****, Everyone should learn from this and stop crying about the injustice m2k has suffered. I say don't ban them just give their money to the players that placed under them.

 

[Allied]

Jeez you kids write alot

>_>

*goes back to reading*

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Chicago Black Socks

Basically a comparison in MLG's eyes. Yes, Jason wasn't paid to lose, but based on the previous conversation and the eventual agreement to give money, it basically is equivalent of not trying your best, as jack said.

 

[•Col•]

I'ma ask again.

What did ADHD do wrong?

I can see banning M2K, but I don't see why ADHD should be banned for M2K breaking the rules.

This is what I'm saying. I know M2k "conspired" or w/e, and even though he didn't know it, broke the rules. Sucks, yeah. But ADHD never agreed to anything. He only said later after the tournament was over that he'd give M2k some cash because they're friends. Giving him money for that reason wouldn't affect the ranking/brackets or whatever.

... Unless you believe ADHD bribed M2k. And does anyone honestly believe ADHD would have to bribe him to win, especially when M2k is having an off day? -.-

 

[Gnes]

I understand that Wyatt gave Jason money. Everyone knows that after the post. However, they played their set out and it's not like Wyatt said "If you throw the set I'll give you money." He allegedly didn't directly agree to anything.

Also, it's only natural to lie to cover yourself. It's not pretty but everyone does it. If MLG came up to Jason or Wyatt and was like "Did you break a rule on purpose?" I would be dumbfounded if they looked and said "Yes." In my mind that would be the same as "Did you murder this person?" "Yes." They'd have to be insane to do something like that.

With that said, I'm not saying that they did anything wrong. In my eyes this whole situation got blown way out of proportion. These are tournaments for video games. We have come a crazy distance from where video game tournaments started, and in the smash community this is just a daily thing.

It's not natural to lie, and that logic won't help any case, and it especially won't help their's. And ur completely missing the point, it doesn't matter if he broke the rule ON PURPOSE, he broke it, thats it, case closed. Now if by some miracle mlg comes out and says he didn't and they were wrong, cool beans, as of now they stood by their prior stance, and as time goes on it seems to get stronger and stronger as the apparent truth comes out. This isn't even bringing in the fact that both players have lied regarding the story, who knows what's the truth now.

And yes it's a big deal, money is a big deal

yo ran chill out...m2k did not know he was breaking any rules, and what he did would not even be considered an issue at any real smash tourney (not mlg)...so the community as a whole sympathizes with him because of it. add to the fact that m2k's just a likeable guy and kinda got screwed out of money he needed for college...i mean, yeah, I just feel bad for him. who wouldn't? except you, i guess

U can sympathize with him, but letting that get in the way of rational reasoning shouldn't happen. It really sucks for him, especially since he depends on the money, but hopefully something good can come out of this for him.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Now's about the time that the trolls roll in <_<

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'm going to post this again, because I have a feeling (especially with the pace of the thread) that people will ignore it, and because IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

To everyone saying "let him play!" :

I don't think you all realize how serious of an offense match fixing is in the competitive sports world. This is a big deal.

When you enter a competition, you are expected to play at the top of your game, because the end result of a bracket (in this case) is supposed to be a listing of players ranked in order of skill level. Money is being distributed, and in the case of our tournament system, all entrants to a tournament agree that money collected will be distributed to the top players, in order of ranking... with the assumption that the ranking will accurately reflect who legitimately earned that money. By attempting to fix a match, 2 or more players are essentially stealing money from other players, distributing the prize pot to players without consideration of the ranking. All players who enter the tournament are, then, having their money stolen. Swindled. They did not agree to a false distribution.

In this case, M2K has stated that he was feeling a bit "emo" and didn't want to play. What if this had happened in the match that would have decided 3rd and 4th place (or, who would fight ADHD)? M2K could have just split 3rd place prize and not played the match... but then, he wouldn't have played to the best of his ability, would have messed up the player ranking, would have contaminated the competition, AND would have taken prize money that all of the other entrants paid for, money that he didn't actually earn.

This is the problem with "splitting the pot". Splitting prize money, no matter WHAT the circumstances, is match fixing, plain and simple. Even if you say you're trying your hardest, on a subconscious level you KNOW you are getting money either way it goes, so you WILL NOT actually play your hardest. You will contaminate the player rankings.

And this affects much more than just the tournament rankings. It will affect Power Rankings. It will affect tournament points for your character. It could affect tier lists. It might make the Smash Lab's job harder if they want to use tournament results as data for something. It makes poster's jobs harder because they have to second guess tournament results when using them as arguments in discussions.

Splitting the pot / match fixing messes up a LOT of things, for the ENTIRE community. It's not harmless, and it's not innocent. It's dishonest, anti-competitive, and wrong. Flat out wrong.

This is why M2K can't play at Dallas. AND this is why ADHD can't, either. His partial agreement to even CONSIDER giving M2K part of the pot might have (and probably did) influenced M2K into not playing at the top of his game, skewing the rankings and earning ADHD more money than he might have otherwise. He's just as much at fault for even CONSIDERING splitting a pot.

I hope we, as a community, realize how serious of an offense this is. We should not allow our players to split pots. At all. Players who do so should not be allowed to compete. Period. This is a serious offense.