• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The SSB Poll Lounge: DLC mode engaged

Status
Not open for further replies.

•Col•

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
2,450
I think that's what it will have to come to, though. Ike's too popular and relevant worldwide to remove. Awakening is too important and successful to ignore. Fans should realize that if they want Roy back, that's how it would have to be. I see costume clones as having different voices and their own names. It's not like he's just a palette swap. The game will still call him "Roy" and he'd have a different voice from Marth.
Dat bias and ignorance. Why couldn't Chrom be the one that's an alt. costume?

For god's sake, he uses the Falchion and is a descendant of Marth for crying out loud. Don't tell me how things 'have to be'. As of right now, Roy is not only much more popular than Chrom, but he is also more important to the series as a whole right now.

Also, the first worldwide Fire Emblem game (FE7) is the most selling FE game of all time... Which is part of the Elibe arc. So there you go. More successful and arguably more important to the series than Awakening. Regardless, I'd still say the Elibe arc deserves more representation than it did in Brawl and I feel like many would agree with me.

It seems odd and unfair to use simple redesigns of non-Awakening characters to represent the most successful game in the series both critically and commercially.
Most people agree that FE Awakening is just an FE All Stars game anyway, so it's not that weird to have the redesigns show up simply to pay homage to the game. Plus there's always the stages/assist trophies/stickers/trophies/bosses and whatnot to pay tribute to the game.

But if you want an actual FE Awakening character to go with for SSB4... Why not Robin?? Not only is s/he more liked than Chrom in general, s/he's also more important within the story of the game, and the MyAvatar feature is almost definitely going to return for many future games, so s/he would even have more longevity than Chrom would.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
Dat bias and ignorance. Why couldn't Chrom be the one that's an alt. costume?

For god's sake, he uses the Falchion and is a descendant of Marth for crying out loud. Don't tell me how things 'have to be'. As of right now, Roy is not only much more popular than Chrom, but he is also more important to the series as a whole right now.

Also, the first worldwide Fire Emblem game (FE7) is the most selling FE game of all time... Which is part of the Elibe arc. So there you go. More successful and arguably more important to the series than Awakening. Regardless, I'd still say the Elibe arc deserves more representation than it did in Brawl and I feel like many would agree with me.



Most people agree that FE Awakening is just an FE All Stars game anyway, so it's not that weird to have the redesigns show up simply to pay homage to the game. Plus there's always the stages/assist trophies/stickers/trophies/bosses and whatnot to pay tribute to the game.

But if you want an actual FE Awakening character to go with for SSB4... Why not Robin?? Not only is s/he more liked than Chrom in general, s/he's also more important within the story of the game, and the MyAvatar feature is almost definitely going to return for many future games, so s/he would even have more longevity than Chrom would.
Thank you very much for insulting me for having a different viewpoint.

Chrom deserves the role of playable character more for many reasons. His game sold better than Roy's game and is better received among fans. Awakening is the most critically praised game in the series. Chrom can be more unique from Marth than Roy can. Awakening is an international game. Half the people who want Roy back only want him back because he's one of only four FE characters that they know. Just look around YouTube, you can tell that many people who want Roy back don't know the first thing about Fire Emblem. Why should people who know nothing about a series get to decide who represents that series?

Chrom may have Falchion, but it's a very different design and he uses it in a different style. And he can use lances as a secondary weapon in his default promoted class. That can be incorporated into a special move to showcase the existence of weapons other than a sword in the FE series.

The extent of Roy's importance was as a one-time promotional stunt in Melee for the then-upcoming FE6. They already cut him because he had run his course in the series and his role had already passed. His one FE game is Japan-only and came out over a decade ago. Honestly, the only cut character who deserves a return is Mewtwo. He's the most wanted character worldwide, can use his new form to represent gen 6, and the only reason he was cut from Brawl was because Sakurai misunderstood complaints about his atrocious performance in Melee.

Awakening is currently sitting at .89 million copies worldwide when it's only been out for nearly four months. It had the strongest first sales month of any Fire Emblem game. And VGChartz doesn't even track digital sales!

The Elibe arc may be important, but FE7 isn't Roy's game. FE6 is. I feel that if the Elibe arc was that important to represent with a playable character, it would have gotten one in Brawl. The fact that Ike was there and not Roy or Lyn hints that recent FE games may be of more value than the first international one. Besides, Lyn was an assist trophy. (And she most likely will still be.)

Awakening may be FE all-stars, but all of that was DLC. I don't count DLC because it's not integral to the story of Awakening and can be completely skipped over. And like I said before, Awakening is simply too big of a game too give anything less than a playable character. It has received the most critical praise and fanbase praise of any Fire Emblem game. It's the most recent entry. It's looking to be the first title in the series to break the 1 million mark.

I thought about Robin as a possibility (mainly because I personally really want a magic-using FE character). I don't think he/she work too well though, because he/she is so open-ended. It's an avatar. I think the only reason it worked with the Pokémon Trainer is because the Pokémon themselves were the playable characters in Brawl. However, I would definitely welcome a custom character style and moveset choices modeled after him/her. That would represent him/her better anyway. :)
 

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,478
Location
Crossbell City
NNID
shinpichu
3DS FC
2251-3915-5139
Switch FC
SW-4957-7233-2307
Don't use VGChartz as a sales source, it completely ruins your credibility.

I won't deny that Awakening has sold very well and is very popular in comparison to other FEs. However, Ikes games sold like absolute sh*t and he still got in to Brawl, so sales don't appear to have any impact on a characters chances.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
Don't use VGChartz as a sales source, it completely ruins your credibility.

I won't deny that Awakening has sold very well and is very popular in comparison to other FEs. However, Ikes games sold like absolute sh*t and he still got in to Brawl, so sales don't appear to have any impact on a characters chances.
Do you have a better sales source? (Seriously, I'd like to use a more credible one.) And if VGChartz is so terrible, why is it even popular?

Your point is that Ike's games sold terribly and he still got in. However, I'm viewing this from the opposite view that you are - if Ike got in despite bad sales, imagine how well qualified Chrom is with his great sales!
 

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
Well, the thing to remember is that while Awakening is more popular than Roy's game, Chrom as a character is less popular than Roy.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
Well, the thing to remember is that while Awakening is more popular than Roy's game, Chrom as a character is less popular than Roy.
Here's the kicker for me though. Roy has a massive fanbase despite having been a clone of Marth. So if he's a costume clone, why is that a problem? Keep in mind that when I say "costume clone", I mean a character that has the same moveset and physics, but has a different voice, different lines, and the game treats him like a different character. If he wins, the game says "This game's winner is Roy." It's pretty much like he's there, just not with his own character slot. It's a great way to keep a series from bring over-represented and cut down on development time while still adding popular characters. I really don't see the problem here.

On a different subject, @Shortiecanbrawl, I know of someone on YouTube who can understand Japanese pretty well, so you can have this poll and thread dropped off at the site you mentioned at the start of this thread. Here's his channel:

www.youtube.com/user/shadowofchaos725

I don't know if he'll help you, but it's worth a shot.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Chrom deserves the role of playable character more for many reasons. His game sold better than Roy's game and is better received among fans
Its easier for an internationally released game to sell better than a Japan-only one. Also, on a popular Japanese game review site, FE6 had a higher review score aggregate than FE13 did (as a matter of fact, it had among the highest score aggregates for the entire series).


Awakening is the most critically praised game in the series.
If we are going solely by internationally released FE games, FE7 was just as critically acclaimed as FE13 was. And if you were to expand it to the reception of the Japan-only games, FE3 and FE6 received the same score that FE13 received in Famitsu.

Chrom can be more unique from Marth than Roy can.
That is solely an opinion. As it stands, I think Roy has a lot more to offer in terms of being able to stand out than Chrom. It really sells a lot about what kind of character Chrom is when the best people can come up with him is "middle of the road".

Awakening is an international game.
Mother 3 was a Japan-only game, yet Lucas still got in. Marth and Roy were Japan-only characters yet Sakurai still brought them in.

Half the people who want Roy back only want him back because he's one of only four FE characters that they know.
No they want him back because they loved using him in Melee. Roy was among the most popular newcomers in Melee, especially among casual Melee fans.

In Japan, the demand for him to return is even stronger, with him probably being the overall second-most wanted character for Smash 4 (behind only Mewtwo). And in Japan, he is also very popular among FE fans as well (see my previous comment about how well FE6 was received).

Just look around YouTube, you can tell that many people who want Roy back don't know the first thing about Fire Emblem. Why should people who know nothing about a series get to decide who represents that series?
Fire Emblem is a very niche series, of course most people won't know much about it. And secondly even among people who actually played FE13, for many of them, Chrom does not bring anything to the table that Ike already has not (or Marth for that matter).


Chrom may have Falchion, but it's a very different design and he uses it in a different style. And he can use lances as a secondary weapon in his default promoted class. That can be incorporated into a special move to showcase the existence of weapons other than a sword in the FE series.
At best that would only be regulated to a single special. As an entire character as a whole, he does not have much to separate him from Marth or Ike. In the long-run, having Chrom to represent FE would be a pretty bad choice. I doubt Sakurai or IS would solely want people to think of FE as solely consisting of "blue-haired swordsmen" especially considering only 1/3 of the lords of the series actually fit that arche-type.

The extent of Roy's importance was as a one-time promotional stunt in Melee for the then-upcoming FE6.
No. Sakurai said he included Roy because he felt he stood out more than the other possible choices for a second FE character at the time, and thought he could help promote the series as a whole (which he was right about).

They already cut him because he had run his course in the series and his role had already passed.
No, Roy was planned for Brawl. He was very likely cut due to time constraints. Probably due to Sonic's very late inclusion meaning that resources for characters like Mewtwo and Roy had to be diverted into getting Sonic (and Sonic series content) in Brawl.

His one FE game is Japan-only and came out over a decade ago. Honestly, the only cut character who deserves a return is Mewtwo. He's the most wanted character worldwide, can use his new form to represent gen 6, and the only reason he was cut from Brawl was because Sakurai misunderstood complaints about his atrocious performance in Melee.
And Roy is among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4 worldwide. As I said before in Japan, the only character there is a stronger demand for is Mewtwo, and in the West, there are only four characters that have a notably stronger demand than him (Mewtwo, Mega Man, Ridley, K. Rool). Considering that characters such as Ridley and Little Mac have little requests in Japan, that actually makes Roy's standing internationally even stronger (probably overall the fourth or third most wanted character for Smash 4 worldwide).


Awakening is currently sitting at .89 million copies worldwide when it's only been out for nearly four months. It had the strongest first sales month of any Fire Emblem game. And VGChartz doesn't even track digital sales!
VGchartz is an unreliable source for game sales data. The proprietor of that site pulls data out of his ***.

The Elibe arc may be important, but FE7 isn't Roy's game. FE6 is. I feel that if the Elibe arc was that important to represent with a playable character, it would have gotten one in Brawl. The fact that Ike was there and not Roy or Lyn hints that recent FE games may be of more value than the first international one. Besides, Lyn was an assist trophy. (And she most likely will still be.)
Roy was going to be in Brawl though, and he is far more wanted for Smash 4 than Chrom is. You can whine about "Chrom is truer to FE" or some crap like that, but the fact is, even among FE13 fans, there is a lot of people who would rather see someone else added than Chrom (such as Anna, the My Unit, or Lucina).


Awakening may be FE all-stars, but all of that was DLC. I don't count DLC because it's not integral to the story of Awakening and can be completely skipped over. And like I said before, Awakening is simply too big of a game too give anything less than a playable character. It has received the most critical praise and fanbase praise of any Fire Emblem game. It's the most recent entry. It's looking to be the first title in the series to break the 1 million mark.
Ruby/Sapphire sold far more copies than FE13 could ever hope to attain, yet it never received a playable character in Smash Bros. Black/White which sold more than even Ruby/Sapphire and Diamond/Pearl did, also has a good chance of not receiving a playable character.

The fact is that sometimes a character is not the best way of representing a game or a series. Look at Animal Crossing. That series sells better than practically every Nintendo series not named Mario or Pokemon, yet Sakurai felt a stage, an Assist Trophy, and an item was more than adequate representation for the series.

The fact is that there are many different ways to represent FE13 aside from a playable character. You could have Tiki/Tharja as an Assist Trophy, an assortment of music, a boss fight, and Marth in his FE13 outfit (which makes him look nearly identical to Lucina). Heck, I would not be surprised if Ike were to come back to Smash 4 with an outfit that makes him look similar to Chrom.

Secondly, on the merits as a whole, Roy has enough on his own to deserve being brought back. He was an extremely well-received character in Melee, represents an arc to the series that is extremely popular, and is among the most wanted characters for Smash 4.

Roy was a tried and tested character was very well-received, which would make him an overall safe choice for Sakurai in a field where there are very few good choices left for Smash Bros.

For someone like Chrom, he is mostly a character for which a lot of his attributes we have already seen in the characters that have already been in Smash Bros. While, he could definitely get in, overall he would prove to be a riskier character to put in and has more potential for a more mixed reception than Roy would.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Do you have a better sales source? (Seriously, I'd like to use a more credible one.) And if VGChartz is so terrible, why is it even popular?

Your point is that Ike's games sold terribly and he still got in. However, I'm viewing this from the opposite view that you are - if Ike got in despite bad sales, imagine how well qualified Chrom is with his great sales!
For Japanese sales, there is Media Create and Famitsu which are rather reliable sales sources for Japanese stuff that are offered to the public.

Unfortunately, NPD is basically the only game in town as far as North American sales go, and we are basically at the mercy of those who have access to their data for specific numbers.

As for Ike getting in, for Brawl, it was originally that Sakurai simply had a placeholder "FE newcomer" on his roster. There had been six new lords created after Roy, and Sakurai did not know which one to choose. He then went to Intelligent Systems (the developer of the FE series) for advice on this matter. They suggested Ike to him. Sakurai agreed with this because he saw the potential in Ike for a slow, but powerful sword-user a style that did not yet exist in Smash Bros.

So even if Chrom's game had good sales, while Ike's games had rather poor ones, the main thing that sold Sakurai on Ike was that he immediately saw the potential for the character and saw him as a character that could do something that no other character could do (a powerhouse sword-wielder). With Chrom, there is no particular attributes about him that make him strikingly different from what we already have in Smash Bros., so more effort would have to be placed in order to make him feel like a worthwhile addition, although Sakurai could simply make him a semi-clone of Ike, call it a day, and then *laughs.


Well, the thing to remember is that while Awakening is more popular than Roy's game, Chrom as a character is less popular than Roy.
I am not so sure about that. In Japan, the review aggregate for FE6 on two different review sites is higher than FE13, so its debateable about which game is more "popular" in that territory. However, in the West, FE13 is certainly more popular than FE6 due to actually having received a proper release.

The point on Roy being more popular than Chrom goes beyond than just those two character. Lucina as a character is more popular than Chrom is among Western FE fans, yet Chrom is far more requested for Smash 4 than Lucina is. Why? Because Lucina seems more similar to Marth than Chrom does to Ike. To many people, a character that brings something new to Smash Bros. is important, even if they like the character in their own source material more.

Here's the kicker for me though. Roy has a massive fanbase despite having been a clone of Marth.
Lots of characters are incredibly popular despite being clones. I would venture to say that every clone character in Smash Bros. has lots of fans except Pichu and Young Link (though with the latter most of them migrated over to Toon Link). Heck, even Dr. Mario has his fans.



So if he's a costume clone, why is that a problem?
Because for many Roy fans, we feel his potential as a character has not been realized for one. The Sword of Seals offers quite a few cool tricks that no other FE character in Smash Bros. has done yet. Roy as a character has a very distinctive identity from Marth that it would be very odd for him to be a costume.

Although Roy started out as a clone in Smash Bros., he very much has the potential to become his own character. Really, saying that because Roy was popular as a clone in Smash Bros. and for that reason should come back as a costume, is no less ridiculous than saying that Falco should come back as a Fox costume. Those characters have their own distinctive identities and personas and histories that it would be seen almost as an insult to shove them into the same category as Overalls Wario.

It would make far more sense to implement lords such as Lucina or Celice (or Seliph) as costumes for Marth, since those lords borrow far more similarities in their design to Marth than Roy does.

Keep in mind that when I say "costume clone", I mean a character that has the same moveset and physics, but has a different voice, different lines, and the game treats him like a different character. If he wins, the game says "This game's winner is Roy." It's pretty much like he's there, just not with his own character slot. It's a great way to keep a series from bring over-represented and cut down on development time while still adding popular characters. I really don't see the problem here.
That kind of stuff could work for a few characters (like a very few) such as Dr. Mario and Dark Pit, however, for characters such as Falco, Lucas, and Roy, they have such large fanbases and such distinctive identities that it would insultive to do something like that to those characters.

Lucas, for example, although he basically has the same body shape as Ness, has almost a completely unique moveset (his only similar moves are his specials and Final Smash), and there have been plenty of Brawl hacks out there that show what can be done with a de-cloned Roy. Falco himself will likely also further differentiate himself from Fox in Smash 4.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
Okay... this one's going to take a while.
Its easier for an internationally released game to sell better than a Japan-only one. Also, on a popular Japanese game review site, FE6 had a higher review score aggregate than FE13 did (as a matter of fact, it had among the highest score aggregates for the entire series).
O_O Why that is (assuming that you're correct), I won't understand. FE6 is one of my least favorite games in the series with its unbalanced weapons, mostly mediocre characters, and bad aesthetics even for the GBA. But it's opinion so whatever.

That is solely an opinion. As it stands, I think Roy has a lot more to offer in terms of being able to stand out than Chrom. It really sells a lot about what kind of character Chrom is when the best people can come up with him is "middle of the road".
What's wrong with middle of the road? Considering that Ike and Marth are skewed on opposite sides of a power-speed continuum, happy medium would round it out nicely. And Chrom can still have a style unique from the other two.

Mother 3 was a Japan-only game, yet Lucas still got in. Marth and Roy were Japan-only characters yet Sakurai still brought them in.
Which speaks volumes for the importance of international characters.

No they want him back because they loved using him in Melee. Roy was among the most popular newcomers in Melee, especially among casual Melee fans.
It still doesn't change that most people who love him don't know anything about Fire Emblem.

In Japan, the demand for him to return is even stronger, with him probably being the overall second-most wanted character for Smash 4 (behind only Mewtwo). And in Japan, he is also very popular among FE fans as well (see my previous comment about how well FE6 was received).
See my above comment about the costume clone argument.

Fire Emblem is a very niche series, of course most people won't know much about it. And secondly even among people who actually played FE13, for many of them, Chrom does not bring anything to the table that Ike already has not (or Marth for that matter).
Does Roy bring much to the table?

At best that would only be regulated to a single special. As an entire character as a whole, he does not have much to separate him from Marth or Ike. In the long-run, having Chrom to represent FE would be a pretty bad choice. I doubt Sakurai or IS would solely want people to think of FE as solely consisting of "blue-haired swordsmen" especially considering only 1/3 of the lords of the series actually fit that arche-type.
A single special is better than nothing. And if Sakurai wants people to know that FE is more than blue sword guys, assist trophies and other things can do that.

No. Sakurai said he included Roy because he felt he stood out more than the other possible choices for a second FE character at the time, and thought he could help promote the series as a whole (which he was right about).
So, a promotional stunt for the series and its upcoming game at time of Melee's development and release.

And Roy is among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4 worldwide. As I said before in Japan, the only character there is a stronger demand for is Mewtwo, and in the West, there are only four characters that have a notably stronger demand than him (Mewtwo, Mega Man, Ridley, K. Rool). Considering that characters such as Ridley and Little Mac have little requests in Japan, that actually makes Roy's standing internationally even stronger (probably overall the fourth or third most wanted character for Smash 4 worldwide).
Which is why costume cloning is too good of an opportunity to pass up. Besides, Waluigi is wanted in Japan and scores highly here (for some reason), but he's still a terrible choice. My point is, popularity alone doesn't carry a character.

Roy was going to be in Brawl though, and he is far more wanted for Smash 4 than Chrom is. You can whine about "Chrom is truer to FE" or some crap like that, but the fact is, even among FE13 fans, there is a lot of people who would rather see someone else added than Chrom (such as Anna, the My Unit, or Lucina).
Already addressed Robin. Lucina isn't the main protagonist of Awakening. Anna is a shopkeeper and doesn't have an important role in any of her appearances.


Ruby/Sapphire sold far more copies than FE13 could ever hope to attain, yet it never received a playable character in Smash Bros. Black/White which sold more than even Ruby/Sapphire and Diamond/Pearl did, also has a good chance of not receiving a playable character.
Pokémon and Fire Emblem are two very different animals. With Pokémon, it's about reserving a slot for the most recent generation and the most popular feasible Pokémon for that generation. So in Brawl, that was Lucario.

The fact is that sometimes a character is not the best way of representing a game or a series. Look at Animal Crossing. That series sells better than practically every Nintendo series not named Mario or Pokemon, yet Sakurai felt a stage, an Assist Trophy, and an item was more than adequate representation for the series.
That's because Animal Crossing is not a fighting series, none of the characters have moveset potential, and they aren't fighters in any way, shape, or form.

The fact is that there are many different ways to represent FE13 aside from a playable character. You could have Tiki/Tharja as an Assist Trophy, an assortment of music, a boss fight, and Marth in his FE13 outfit (which makes him look nearly identical to Lucina). Heck, I would not be surprised if Ike were to come back to Smash 4 with an outfit that makes him look similar to Chrom.
Already addressed that. Awakening is the most recent title, among the most critically acclaimed, had the strongest first sales month, and will likely be the first FE to sell more than 1 million. (Does anybody know of a reliable sales source?)

Secondly, on the merits as a whole, Roy has enough on his own to deserve being brought back. He was an extremely well-received character in Melee, represents an arc to the series that is extremely popular, and is among the most wanted characters for Smash 4.
My arguments would just get repetitive at this point. I don't think Roy's important enough, popularity alone doesn't suffice, costume clones, etc.

For someone like Chrom, he is mostly a character for which a lot of his attributes we have already seen in the characters that have already been in Smash Bros. While, he could definitely get in, overall he would prove to be a riskier character to put in and has more potential for a more mixed reception than Roy would.
What does Roy being to the table though?

Overall, even with all his popularity, I just don't think he's an important enough character. Awakening's popularity and recency demand that it gets a playable character. The costume cloning is just too good of an opportunity to pass up. I think I've said my piece.

Edit: Crap. The costume cloning argument was addressed BEFORE I finished this message. Will have to get on that later...
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
O_O Why that is (assuming that you're correct), I won't understand. FE6 is one of my least favorite games in the series with its unbalanced weapons, mostly mediocre characters, and bad aesthetics even for the GBA. But it's opinion so whatever.
Being lots of other people have different tastes than you. I actually formally imported (READ: DID NOT PIRATE) the Japan-only games in the series, and FE6 is among my two favorite games in the series (the other being FE5). I actually wrote the most detailed review for FE5 over at GameFAQs.


What's wrong with middle of the road? Considering that Ike and Marth are skewed on opposite sides of a power-speed continuum, happy medium would round it out nicely. And Chrom can still have a style unique from the other two.
Because that is literally quite boring. There is already characters like Link who are a more well-rounded type of swordsmen. And then you have characters like Shulk or Isaac who will likely get into Smash 4 as well-rounded swordsmen like characters, while also bringing in the unique attributes of the Monado (Shulk) or Psynergy (Isaac) for their respective movesets.

Which speaks volumes for the importance of international characters.
No, it shows Sakurai does not mind putting in international characters if he knows that they will be received well amongst overseas Smash Bros. fans. When a Japanese Smash Bros. fan asked Sakurai whether he would put in more Japan-only characters in Brawl (this was with the pre-Brawl journal), Sakurai gave told a story about a black man that personally thanked Sakurai for including Roy in Melee. Sakurai used this example to say that Japan-only characters have the potential to be well-received all over the world.

It still doesn't change that most people who love him don't know anything about Fire Emblem.
It does not matter. Popularity is popularity. Fire Emblem is a niche series in the West, and in Japan, Roy is plenty popular among FE fans anyway.

Besides, if you are going to say "Roy's popularity is not legitimate because many of his fans have never played FE" you might as well expand that argument to Marth, Ike, Ness, Captain Falcon, Lucas, Ice Climbers, and ROB, of which few people have also played their source material games. For characters like Ice Climbers and ROB in particular, they have subpar source material games.

For a character like Captain Falcon, whom is hardly ever seen outside his vehicle in his games (with the exception of GX), could you fault someone for liking him solely for how he is in Smash Bros. without ever having played a F-Zero game?

As a matter of fact, Roy actually brought many people to even try out Fire Emblem in the first place (including myself). So is very insulting to say that fans of Roy are not legitimate just because they have not played FE6 (which was never given a proper international release), or any other Smash Bros. character for that matter.

As it stands, anyone can love a character in Smash Bros. and still be a fan of them, and that makes them no less legitimate as fans.

Look also at Waluigi/Toad. They typically are no less important than the rest of the Mario cast roster in the spinoff games (although Toad has made several playable appearances in the Mario platformers lately), yet, I doubt you would call the fans of them any less legitimate.


See my above comment about the costume clone argument.
Costume clones are a horrible idea for most characters in general. They would only be well-received for a select few such as Dark Pit or Dr. Mario.



Does Roy bring much to the table?
Yes he does. He brought many people to Fire Emblem, and it was his very high popularity in Melee (along with Marth) that convinced Nintendo to bring the series over to the West.

As I said before, Roy's Sword of Seals could at the very least make him stand out more than Chrom. It has a long distance attack and can heal the wielder. Not to mention aesthetically the fire properties of it help it stand out relative to other blades in the Smash Bros. series.

There have been a slew of ideas on what can be done with Roy to make him an interesting and worthy character addition solely looking at the moveset perspective. Habanero for example posted something particularly inventive.



A single special is better than nothing. And if Sakurai wants people to know that FE is more than blue sword guys, assist trophies and other things can do that.
People have more exposure to characters than any other content. As a character, Chrom simply does not offer much, and a single-special is not "better than nothing" when Roy potentially offers several unique specials just based off the canonical abilities for the Sword of Seals alone.

And for other potential sword-user newcomers (Takamaru, Shulk, and Isaac) they all have attributes to them that make them distinctly stick out relative to the rest of the cast.


So, a promotional stunt for the series and its upcoming game at time of Melee's development and release.
So you just ignored what I wrote about why Sakurai included Roy, and just said "la la la just an advertisement"?

Which is why costume cloning is too good of an opportunity to pass up. Besides, Waluigi is wanted in Japan and scores highly here (for some reason), but he's still a terrible choice. My point is, popularity alone doesn't carry a character.
Mario characters in general are not highly wanted in Japan, so I don't know where you heard that from. Secondly, there is a slew of Mario characters in general that are highly wanted (Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Toad) yet also have more importance to the series than Waluigi.

Roy not only has popularity, but he has veteran status in Smash Bros., and was the main lord of the pivotal game to the Elibe arc in Japan (which one of the most popular arcs overall for the FE series).


Already addressed Robin. Lucina isn't the main protagonist of Awakening. Anna is a shopkeeper and doesn't have an important role in any of her appearances.
Reading comprehension. I was saying that Chrom looked so un-appetizing as a possible newcomer, that people have looked to Anna, Lucina, and My Unit as altnernatives. How likely they actually are is another story.


Pokémon and Fire Emblem are two very different animals. With Pokémon, it's about reserving a slot for the most recent generation and the most popular feasible Pokémon for that generation. So in Brawl, that was Lucario.

In Melee, there was not even going to be a "newest" rep. Sakurai was originally going to have Melee's non-clone roster plus King Dedede, but Sakurai felt that six clones would be received better than one more original character.

That's because Animal Crossing is not a fighting series, none of the characters have moveset potential, and they aren't fighters in any way, shape, or form.
There is a lot of people that would disagree with you on that, however, it is an example that shows that extensive content can be given to a game or series without having to grant it a playable character.



Already addressed that. Awakening is the most recent title, among the most critically acclaimed, had the strongest first sales month, and will likely be the first FE to sell more than 1 million. (Does anybody know of a reliable sales source?)
It may be the most recent title, but its certainly not the most critically acclaimed. Secondly, as others have said, sales don't matter for FE, otherwise Ike would never have gotten in.

My arguments would just get repetitive at this point. I don't think Roy's important enough, popularity alone doesn't suffice, costume clones, etc.

FE6 was the main game to the Elibe arc (FE7 was overall a smaller scale story and setting the stage for FE6 to take place, much like FE5 was a sidestory overall to FE4). Roy was basically the savior for Elibe and helped bring peace to the continent in a massive conflict that invoked the ancient dragons and the superpowers of the continent. Overall, Roy is still the most popular and iconic lord from the GBA trilogy.

There is also even an interest by Intelligent Systems to remake Roy's game some day (which will probably happen if Roy returns for Smash 4).

What does Roy being to the table though?

Overall, even with all his popularity, I just don't think he's an important enough character. Awakening's popularity and recency demand that it gets a playable character. The costume cloning is just too good of an opportunity to pass up. I think I've said my piece.
I have already argued why Roy is important to the series. However, aside from Marth, its very subjective in general to argue which lords are more important than others (outside a few like Leaf and Lyn who are more sidestory heroes).

Secondly, FE13 could perfectly be represented with stuff aside from playable characters.

Lastly, why can't we get both Roy and a FE13 character. Roy on his own certainly has the merits to return. There is nothing nowhere that says just because Roy returns, a FE13 character will have to be left out.
 

Gingerbread Man

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
1,214
whooooaaa that's a lot of text.
One of the most divided arguments I've ever seen. Which is annoying cause next thing you know it you're arguing 7 things at once.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
One last post.

Because that is literally quite boring. There is already characters like Link who are a more well-rounded type of swordsmen. And then you have characters like Shulk or Isaac who will likely get into Smash 4 as well-rounded swordsmen like characters, while also bringing in the unique attributes of the Monado (Shulk) or Psynergy (Isaac) for their respective movesets.
Well, that's your opinion. I'll give you that plenty of others take that approach, but I see more in Chrom than you do. It's opinion though so I'll stop there.

No, it shows Sakurai does not mind putting in international characters if he knows that they will be received well amongst overseas Smash Bros. fans. When a Japanese Smash Bros. fan asked Sakurai whether he would put in more Japan-only characters in Brawl (this was with the pre-Brawl journal), Sakurai gave told a story about a black man that personally thanked Sakurai for including Roy in Melee. Sakurai used this example to say that Japan-only characters have the potential to be well-received all over the world.
Maybe, but I still think that because international characters are more recognizable prior to an appearance in SSB, they have an easier time making it in. Your argument makes a lot of sense. Really, it does. But I'm just not completely sold on it.

Besides, if you are going to say "Roy's popularity is not legitimate because many of his fans have never played FE" you might as well expand that argument to Marth, Ike, Ness, Captain Falcon, Lucas, Ice Climbers, and ROB, of which few people have also played their source material games. For characters like Ice Climbers and ROB in particular, they have subpar source material games.

For a character like Captain Falcon, whom is hardly ever seen outside his vehicle in his games (with the exception of GX), could you fault someone for liking him solely for how he is in Smash Bros. without ever having played a F-Zero game?
My point with the whole legitimacy argument is that it's best to have informed opinions. Take Waluigi for example. The only reason he has much popularity to speak of now if because of his Brawl in the Family incarnation. That has nothing to do with his canon character, so I feel like that the Waluigi Time crap should not translate into popularity for SSB. His fans confuse non-canon with canon. That may not be the best example and I'm aware that Roy's popularity isn't like that, so I'll stop there. You've convinced me that Roy is legitimately popular. I just wanted to give an example of what I was talking about.

Look also at Waluigi/Toad. They typically are no less important than the rest of the Mario cast roster in the spinoff games (although Toad has made several playable appearances in the Mario platformers lately), yet, I doubt you would call the fans of them any less legitimate.
Waluigi can't be important at all because he's never ventured outside of spin-offs and isn't even important to those.

Costume clones are a horrible idea for most characters in general. They would only be well-received for a select few such as Dark Pit or Dr. Mario.
Okay, you've got me on the Falco and Lucas argument. I know it's not related to Roy, but Toon Link should be a costume clone. He is another version of Link, after all, so it's more appropriate to him and it doesn't waste space with a second version of a pre-existing character.

Yes he does. He brought many people to Fire Emblem, and it was his very high popularity in Melee (along with Marth) that convinced Nintendo to bring the series over to the West.
I get that he helped bring FE overseas, but Marth did that too (as you even pointed out). So in that sense, he doesn't bring anything new that Marth didn't. I did see the Sword of Seals abilities argument though, so at least in moveset he can do something different.

There have been a slew of ideas on what can be done with Roy to make him an interesting and worthy character addition solely looking at the moveset perspective. Habanero for example posted something particularly inventive.
I saw that one, and it's pretty awesome.

So you just ignored what I wrote about why Sakurai included Roy, and just said "la la la just an advertisement"?
You said part of it was because he thought he would best promote the series as a whole. I didn't ignore you.

Mario characters in general are not highly wanted in Japan, so I don't know where you heard that from. Secondly, there is a slew of Mario characters in general that are highly wanted (Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Toad) yet also have more importance to the series than Waluigi.
I have been told numerous times that Waluigi is the most wanted newcomer in Japan. Of course, no one gave me a source when I asked for it... >_< It's a relief to see that Waluigi isn't as popular as I thought though. :)

Reading comprehension. I was saying that Chrom looked so un-appetizing as a possible newcomer, that people have looked to Anna, Lucina, and My Unit as altnernatives. How likely they actually are is another story.
I didn't see anything about Chrom looking un-appetizing. I was just addressing why I don't think those others are good choices.

In Melee, there was not even going to be a "newest" rep.
Considering that there were only two generations of Pokémon at the time (and I doubt that people were calling them "generations" at the time anyway), that didn't matter much. It does now, though.

There is a lot of people that would disagree with you on that, however, it is an example that shows that extensive content can be given to a game or series without having to grant it a playable character.
Sakurai himself said in a Nintendo Power interview in 2008 that he left Animal Crossing characters out of the roster for the reasons I listed.

There is also even an interest by Intelligent Systems to remake Roy's game some day (which will probably happen if Roy returns for Smash 4).
And if that happens, Roy is guaranteed a spot.

Lastly, why can't we get both Roy and a FE13 character. Roy on his own certainly has the merits to return. There is nothing nowhere that says just because Roy returns, a FE13 character will have to be left out.
Because I'm not comfortable with cutting Ike. It would be dangerous to remove him because of his incredible popularity and status and the most recurring Western FE character. Popularity didn't stop Roy's removal though.

Your arguments make a lot of sense. I'm not entirely sold, but I will definitely give it another look. Thanks for the reliable sales sources by the way! :)
 

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
Glad to see that the discussion went peacefully. The walls of text are interesting to read though. :)
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
Glad to see that the discussion went peacefully. The walls of text are interesting to read though. :)
Indeed! :) I look at this type of discussion as idea sharing and not heated arguing, because that's what Smash speculation really comes down to - sharing of ideas and opinions. Suggesting rosters is a lot more fun than predicting them. And I've certainly learned a few things. Like how Lucina is more popular than Chrom despite being more generic. What is it about these generic FE sword girls that makes them so popular? :/ Granted, Lucina had some things going for her (Awakening, Chapter 21), but still.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Indeed! :) I look at this type of discussion as idea sharing and not heated arguing, because that's what Smash speculation really comes down to - sharing of ideas and opinions. Suggesting rosters is a lot more fun than predicting them. And I've certainly learned a few things. Like how Lucina is more popular than Chrom despite being more generic. What is it about these generic FE sword girls that makes them so popular? :/ Granted, Lucina had some things going for her (Awakening, Chapter 21), but still.
Lucina is only more popular among FE fans. For Smash Bros., she is far less wanted than Chrom due to her strong similarities to Marth. She has a more profound version of the problem Chrom has (being seen as too similar to the FE characters already in Smash Bros.).

To be fair though, the most popular and well-known re-design of a lord for FE13 was with Marth (which was not only the first lord made available as DLC, but also made available for free), and this Marth re-design basically makes him look virtually identical to Lucina.
 

Shorts

Zef Side
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
9,609
3DS FC
3136-6583-3704
Anyways with Dark Samus. Why can't we have both? Metroids big enough for 3 characters.

That's what I'm sayin.


And you should learn real quick that liking Chrom 'round these parts makes you unpopular.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
And you should learn real quick that liking Chrom 'round these parts makes you unpopular.
I hope you're being sarcastic. You put him on the poll and he's getting a lot of votes. And he's a good protagonist! If people hate me for liking him, that's their problem.

By the way, did you read my message about the guy who will be able to help you since he knows Japanese?
 

Shorts

Zef Side
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
9,609
3DS FC
3136-6583-3704
I hope you're being sarcastic. You put him on the poll and he's getting a lot of votes. And he's a good protagonist! If people hate me for liking him, that's their problem.

By the way, did you read my message about the guy who will be able to help you since he knows Japanese?

Nah, some characters just get a lot of **** around here. Trust me.

And no I did not, but if he's willing to help, then by all means help me contact him.
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
Nah, some characters just get a lot of **** around here. Trust me.

And no I did not, but if he's willing to help, then by all means help me contact him.
Do you have a YouTube account? If you don't, I can contact him for you instead. I linked his channel in an earlier post.

FalKoopa said:
Well, not really. A good number of the well-respected users here dislike Chrom.
And they harass people over that? :/ So much for respect. I mean, I despise Waluigi with a burning passion, but I don't go around harassing people just for liking him.
 

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
And they harass people over that? :/ So much for respect. I mean, I despise Waluigi with a burning passion, but I don't go around harassing people just for liking him.
No no no. They don't harass people.

But you know, follow the leader.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Hey Shortie, when you're tallying up 1000 votes, could you please update Brawl veterans along with statistics of what sites people vote at and what location they're voting from? Thanks.
 

Shorts

Zef Side
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
9,609
3DS FC
3136-6583-3704
Do you have a YouTube account? If you don't, I can contact him for you instead. I linked his channel in an earlier post.

I do, so I'll message him. Thanks ~

And I'm a third of the way to 1000 votes. When II get there, I'm going to release everything, plus a detailed write up on the characters, their positions, and a paragraph about Stages, bosses, and ATs.

SSBF, did you ever take the poll to Youtube?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
ScatsmanWorld25 did upload a video on YouTube about the poll (which I asked him to do), so it should get some vote. I also tried to place a comment on pizzadudemanguy's channel about this, but it didn't go through. I'll PM him about this.

I would upload a video about this, unfortunately I don't think I have the material to upload anything so I would have to buy a program to make videos.
 

Gingerbread Man

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
1,214
And they harass people over that? :/ So much for respect. I mean, I despise Waluigi with a burning passion, but I don't go around harassing people just for liking him.
Not the people who like him, just the character himself. Hes been called dull and distasteful more times on these boards than I can count. Its pretty aggravating since that's completely subjective.
 

Thirdkoopa

Administrator
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
7,162
Location
Somewhere on Discord while working on something
I'm not reading this whole thing but I'll say that not only VGChartz is not that bad, but somewhere else around the grapevine I heard Fire Emblem: Awakening achieved more than 500k

Ike/Marth are needed. The debate on Chrom vs Roy is Flavor of the Week vs Bringing back Veterans. Both can be interesting and both have a lot of mostly advantage stuck to them. It really all depends.
 

Gingerbread Man

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
1,214
VGChartz isn't reliable if the game just came out. Its been long enough that they have probably aligned themselves with more reliable statistics.
 

Shorts

Zef Side
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
9,609
3DS FC
3136-6583-3704
Okay so this is my newcomer selections for the Japanese poll. Anyone I should add?

Super Mario/Yoshi/Wario Characters
· Doctor Mario - ドクターマリオ
· Toad - キノピオ
· Bowser Jr. - クッパJr.
· Waluigi - ワルイージ
· Paper Mario - マリオ(ペーパー)
· Kamek -カメック
· Mona - モナ?
· Captain Syrup - キャプテン・シロップ
· Ashley - アシュリー

Donkey Kong Series
· Dixie Kong - ディクシーコング
· King K. Rool - キングクルール

The Legend Of Zelda
· Young Link - こどもリンク
· Tingle - チンクル
· Ghirahim - ギラヒム

Metroid
· Ridley -リドリー
· Dark Samus - ダークサムス
· Anthouny Higgs - アンソニー・ヒッグス

Kirby Superstar
· Prince Fluff - フラッフ
· Bandana Dee バンダナワドルディ
· Gooey グーイ

StarFox
· Krystal - クリスタル
· Slippy Toad スリッピー・トード

F-Zero
· Black Shadow - ブラックシャドー
· Samurai Goroh - サムライ ゴロー

Mother
· Claus/Masked Man - クラウス/ かめんのおとこ
· Kumatora - クマトラ

Fire Emblem
· Roy - ロイ
· Black Knight - 漆黒の騎士
· Caeda - -シーダ
· Lyn - -リン
· Chrom - クロム
· Lucina - ルキナ

Pokemon
· Mewtwo - ミュウツー
· Pichu - ピチュー
· Deoxys - デオキシス
· Victini - ビクティニ
· Zoroark - ゾロアーク
· Meowth - ニャース
· New Pokemon Trainer - 新しいポケモントレーナー
· Plusle and Minun -プラスルマイナン
· Genesect- ゲノセクト


Small Franchises
· Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight) - バルーンファイト
· Elza (The Last Story) - エルザ
· Isaac (Golden Sun) - ロビン
· Kanan (The Last Story) - カナン
· Lip (Panel De Pon) - リップ
· Little Mac (Punch Out!!) - リトルマック
· Magnus (Kid Icarus) - マグナス
· Medusa (Kid Icarus) -メデューサ
· Mii (Wii series) - ミー
· Palutena (Kid Icarus) - パルテナ
· Ray MK III (Custom Robo) - カスタムロボ
· Saki (Sin and Punishment) - 天宮 咲
· Shulk (Xenoblade) - シュルク
· Starfy (The Legendary Starfy) - スタフィー
· Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight) -スカポン
· Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle) - 鷹丸
· Tom Nook (Animal Crossing) -たぬきち
· Mach Rider -マッハライダー
· ExciteBike -エキサイトバイク

Third Party characters:
· Bomberman - ボンバーマン
· Simon Belmont (Castlevania) -シモン・ベルモンド
· Slime (Dragon Quest) - スライム
· Chocobo (Final Fantasy) - チョコボ,
· Black Mage (Final Fantasy) -黒魔道士
· Sora (Kingsom Hearts) -ソラ(キングダム ハーツ)
· Megaman - チョコボ,
· Pac-Man -パックマン
· Professor Layton - レイトン教授
· Jill Valentine (Resident Evil) -ジル・バレンタイン
· Nightmare (Soul Calibur) -ナイトメア (ソウルキャリバーV)
· Ryu (Stret Fighter) - リュウ (ストリートファイター)
· Geno (Super Mario RPG) -ジーノ


I'd like to say I made these back in 2010
 

RavenKingSage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
341
Location
The most corrupt country ever, except most others.
ScatsmanWorld25 did upload a video on YouTube about the poll (which I asked him to do), so it should get some vote. I also tried to place a comment on pizzadudemanguy's channel about this, but it didn't go through. I'll PM him about this.

I would upload a video about this, unfortunately I don't think I have the material to upload anything so I would have to buy a program to make videos.
So you're the one who asked him to do that. I must thank you. I never would've had the enlightening discussion abou Roy if not for that video.

I'll ask a couple of others to join the YouTube spec SmashBoards raid. :)

Gingerbread Man said:
Not the people who like him, just the character himself. He's been called dull and distasteful more times on these boards than I can count.
What's distasteful about him? :/ And if Chrom is dull, then Lucina is a snoozer. I like both, but I like Chrom way better. His trusting nature made him flawed and believable. He also had some great one-liners. He's everything I like about Ike and cookie-cutters like Marth rolled together. :)

@Shortiecanbrawl

I'd add Impa and Vaati to the Zelda section. I'd add Galacta Knight to the Kirby section, too. And Fawful to the Mario section.
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
[COLLAPSE="Current Poll Results (900)"]
As of 900 ~

God Tier
· Mewtwo 594
· Megaman 532

Top Tier
· Ridley 474
· King K. Rool 462
· Roy 418
· Little Mac (Punch Out) 402

Mid Tier
· Palutena 350
· Bowser Junior 328
· Isaac (Golden Sun) 311
· Krystal 309
· Paper Mario 308

Lower Tier
· Waluigi 287
· Chrom 283
· Shulk (Xenoblade) 278
· Banjo & Kazooie 275
· Dixie Kong 258
· Majora (Skull Kid) 248
· Samurai Goroh 230
· Black Shadow 229
· Bomberman 225
· Ghirahim 224
· Lyn 220
· Pac-Man 215
· 2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles) 212
· 6th Gen Pokemon 204
· Bayonetta 201

Bottom Tier
· Lucina 197
· Mii (Wii Series) 191
· Toad 186
· Rayman 185
· Dark Samus 183
· Doctor Mario 179
· Super Mario RPG (Geno, Mallow) 178
· Castlevania (Simon Belmont, Alucard, Dracula) 172
· Medusa 169
· Balloon Fighter 169
· Kingdom Hearts (Sora) 169
· Takamaru (The Mysterious Musasame Castle) 168
· Pokemon Trainer (Johto) 164
· Kamek 161
· King Boo 160
· Rosalina 160
· Ace Attorney (Phoenix Write) 160
· Zoroark 158
· Saki (Sin & Punishment) 158
· Viewtiful Joe 155
· Crono Trigger (Crono) 153
· Eevee (and Eeveelutions) 151
· Tom Nook (Animal Crossing 151

Honerable Mentions
· Toon Zelda 149
· Claus (Masked Man) 144
· Anna 142
· Ashley 141
· Captain Syrup 141
· Dillon (Rolling Western) 141
· Vaati 140

· Pokemon Trainer (Hoenn) 140

· Final Fantasy (Chocobo, Black Mage, Moogle, Cloud, Lightning) 139

· Tales Series (Cless/Cress, Lloyd) 134
· Professor Layton 133
· No More Hereos (Travis Touchdown) 132
· Tetra 131
· Ray MK (Custom Robo) 130
· Midna 129
· Mona 128
· Young Link 127
· Shy Guy 126
· Dark Pit 125
· Pokemon Trainer (Kalos) 122
· Hades 122
· Baby Mario & Luigi 119
· Wolf Link 117
· Slippy 114
· Villager (Animal Crossing) 114
· Scribblenauts (Maxwell) 114
· Porky 113
· Andy (Advanced Wars) 111
· Conker's Bad Fur Day (Conker) 110
· Fawful 109
· Magnus 109
· Bandana Dee 108
· Street Fighter (Ryu, Chun Li, M. Bison) 107
· Toon Ganondorf 106
· Funky Kong 106
· Pokemon Trainer (Sinnoh) 105
· Black Knight 105
· Impa 104
· Daisy 103
· Deoxys 103
· Tharja 102
· K.K Slider (Animal Crossing) 102
· Pokemon Trainer N 101
· Lip (Panel De Pon) 101
· Pokemon Trainer Villain (Rocket Plasma Galactic Aqua Magma) 99
· Plusle & Minun 98
· Knuckle Joe 96
· Meowth 94
· Viridi 93
· 2nd Metal Gear Character (Raiden, Gray Fox) 90
· Kat & Ana 91
· Prince Fluff 91
· Starfy (The Legendary Starfy) 91
· Toon Sheik 89
· Genesect 89
· Fiora (Xenoblade) 89
· Classic Link 87
· Micaiah 86
· Pichu 85
· Tingle 82
· Jimmy T. 81
· Pokemon Champion Cynthia 81
· Eirika 81
· Tiki 80
· Soul Calibur (Nightmare, Ivy Valentine) 80
· Baby Bowser 79
· Robin (FEA Avatar) 79
· Kumatora 79
· Alex (Golden Sun) 79
· Peppy 77
· Elite Beat Agents 76
· Hector 75
· Yarn Kirby 74
· Jill (Drill Dozer) 73
· Poo 72
· Adeliene 71
· Captain Rainbow 71
· Ninja Gaiden (Ryu Hayabusa) 71
· Sylux 69
· Mew 68
· Yarn Yoshi 66
· Jeff 66
· Felix (Golden Sun) 66
· Duck Hunt Dog 65
· Louie (Pikmin) 65
· KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) 65
· Battletoads (Zitz) 64
· Mach Rider 63
· Darkrai 62
· Groose 61
· Matthew (Golden Sun) 60
· Jody Summer 59
· Zael (The Last Story) 59
· Flint 58
· Captain N 58
· Giygas 57
· Tempo (Harmo Knight) 57
· Ninten 56
· Mike Jones (Star Tropics) 56
· Resident Evil (Jill Valentine, Chris Redfeild, Leon Kennedy) 56
· Aeron (Pandora's Tower) 55
· Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight) 55
· Lanky Kong 54
· Blood Falcon 54
· Eggplant Wizard 54
· Tekken (Heihachi, Jin, Kazuya) 54
· Isa Jo (Sin & Punishment) 53
· Caeda 52
· Ephraim 52
· Dragon Quest (Slime) 52
· Phantom Zelda 51
· Meloetta 51
· Paula 51
· Victini 50
· Captain Quartet (Pikmin III) 50
· Leon 49
· Cranky Kong 47
· Gardevoir 47
· Excited Biker 46
· Mallo (Pushmo) 44
· NO THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS 43
· Eliwood 42
· Bubbles (Clu Clu Land) 42
· Donkey Kong Junior 41
· Marx 41
· Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness) 41
· Panther 40
· Reyn (Xenoblade) 40
· Muddy Mole (Mole Mania) 38
· Anthony Higgs 37
· Elincia 36
· Dunban (Xenoblade) 36
· Andross 35
· Walhart 35
· Ana 35
· Calista (The Last Story) 34
· Prince Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) 32
· Alice (Balloon Kid) 30
· Ashley Robbins (Trace Memory / Another Road) 29
· Orublon 27
· Magolor 27
· Sakura Samurai (Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword) 26
· Gooey 25
· Deathborn 25
· Tiki Tong 24
· Pico 24
· Stanly the Bugman 23
· Soren 23
· Shake King 22
· Leaf 22
· Sigurd 22
· Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk) 19
· Heracles (Glory of Heracles) 18
· Hunter (Fossil Fighter) 18
· Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club pt. II) 17
· Urban Champion 17
· Celice 16
· John Raimi (Geist) 16
· Demille (Tomato Adventure) 15
· Dr. Write (Sim City) 15
· Hero (Magc Starsign / Vacation) 15
· Prince Richard (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) 15
· Tamagon (Devil World) 15
· Kiddie Kong 14
· Daroach 14
· Labrador / Grey Tabby (Nintendogs + Cats) 13
· Lark (PilotWings) 13
· Ryuta (Ouendan) 13
· Welt (Soma Bringer) 13
· Ryota Hayami (Wave Race) 12
· Dr. Stewart 10

· Narbarl 7

[/collapse]

For all y'all too lazy to check page one.

Must say I'm pleasantly surprised to see Bomberman still so high up.
 

kikaru

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
890
Location
Some small and insignificant country town, WA.
3DS FC
0705-2807-1422
What's distasteful about him? :/ And if Chrom is dull, then Lucina is a snoozer. I like both, but I like Chrom way better. His trusting nature made him flawed and believable. He also had some great one-liners. He's everything I like about Ike and cookie-cutters like Marth rolled together. :)

As said before it's all a matter of opinion. While I've seen my fair share of distasteful posts about Chrom I've also seen a decent amount of love and support for him as well across other forums as well. It's all about what information you want to include to shape your argument. In my own opinion the greatest strength in Fire Emblem Awakening wasn't the graphics, gameplay, or storyline, but the characters themselves much like in Xenoblade, Zero Escape, and Baccano for example. And Chrom definitely had a very likable personality with a good deal of development. (And he's kind of a bad-ass, especially for a father figure. He reminds me a good deal about Kratos from Symphonia)

Anyways the biggest reason against Chrom is that he brings less to the table in general compared to Roy, Marth, and Ike. What playstyle can Chrom bring that these other characters cannot? (Aesthetics is also a matter of opinion which I don't see the need of getting into.)

Marth is light-weight and quick while Ike is a slow, but heavy hitter. A middle-weight character wouldn't be the most appealing thing to bring to the table and we already have two characters that serve as a jack-of-all trades, namely Link and Toon Link. My suggestion was having him be a lower % combo-maniac, others have suggested using skills from Awakening to better diversify his movepool, some have suggested utilizing Awakening's unique Dual mechanic as well. And all of these do not have to be ripped straight from Awakening itself, we've seen a lot of attacks that have seen alterations in Smash. Rest for example does not heal Jigglypuff in Smash, nor does it deal explosive damage in Pokemon, so we could see a skill like Luna and Rightful King do something different than what it does in Fire Emblem. It's all up to the creative minds of the development team. His potential is undeniably there, (While it might not be the highest), some people are just biased and turn a blind eye.

While Roy has more potential with the Sword of Seals we cannot be for certain that Sakurai would've granted him a completely unique play-style or if he would've been Luigi-fied like many other characters. From what I can tell, people want Roy back because he's Roy, he's a veteran, and he's kind of a badass, his fire sword and unique moveset are smaller reasons as to why he's so heavily requested too.

Edit: Why is it when I separate bad and ass with '-' it's censored but when I combine them together it's not...? Lol
 

Shorts

Zef Side
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
9,609
3DS FC
3136-6583-3704
I'll add Impa, Micaiah, and Porky, but Robin MAY be hhard to find, actually. >.<
 

G0LD3N L0TUS

Smash Lord
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
1,143
Location
Who's asking?
NNID
G0LD3N_L0TUS
3DS FC
3007-8158-6601
@Shortiecanbrawl

The only suggestion I have that I don't think has come up yet would be Duster from the Mother series.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom