The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]

[Scatz]

Note: To wavebounce, you must be inputting a special move (B move) in one direction, then smash the analog in another direction immediately after. The character's movement makes some funky combinations.

Just to list an example of a funky combo (assume Yoshi is facing to the right):

SH/FH Backwards > UpB to the Left > Smash the analog stick to the right > Yoshi changes direction to the right, throws the egg to the left.

Now if you do the same motion, but jump forwards instead, he'll move backwards while egging to the right.

 

[noxmiles]

I see. thanx guys

 

[Masonomace]

Another Question: (sorry for asking a bit of questions)

• Is Yoshi be able to ISJR with aerials(?) besides the free-falling AD near ground and buffered Second Jump doing another Second Jump?

 

[Scatz]

Yes, but due to the nature of his jumps, it makes it significantly harder to maintain.

 

[noxmiles]

wait, isnt that technique what bowser mains try to make full use of in order to jump infinitely? (except you're usinging aerials instead of koopa claw?)

 

[Scatz]

Yes. Koopa Claw allows an extremely relaxed window compared to an aerial when doing it.

Btw, every character can ISJR.

 

[noxmiles]

uh huh... yeah, relaxed indeed. Just tried it last night. its pretty quirky...

is there any crazy applications for yoshi to take advantage of? what if we used it for the flutter kick? that sounds pretty fun


Edit: Or... not I suppose

Next question - what's yoshi's frame data for his throws? I cant seem to find any easily

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I only really use B as JCEL, am I wrong for doing it? I find it has the most range and it makes it rather flexible. I don't see myself just using B, but should I? Also, I don't know (as in, apply in-game) how to B-Reverse.
Also I find myself spotdodge panic sometimes because Yoshi can't do much except grab (which has slow startup) OoS. ):

 

[Masonomace]

Next question - what's yoshi's frame data for his throws? I cant seem to find any easily

Here ya go: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/yoshis-entire-frame-data.249046/

 

[Masonomace]

Quick question Yoshi Boards, I might word this wrong but:

Does a Flutter kick prevent anyone from DI'ing up out of it if Yoshi FF's the D-air or is a FF D-air more prone to DI out of easier? This question's example will involve yoshi waiting for the invinci-frames of the opponent holding the ledge almost end and SH D-air towards them with and/or without FF.

 

[RaptorTEC]

You can always SDI out of Yoshis dair. Fast falling would actually make it easier if they're able to react fast enough. Although I guess if they don't react fast enough they're kinda screwed. You generally don't wanna risk something like that though since you can get footstooled under the stage for it

 

[Masonomace]

Radical knowledge Raptor Thanks for Answering~ If that's the case another quick question:

I don't think I understand.. @.@

omg you're right I basically messed up kinda on the question, re-edited:

What are your thoughts on yoshi's ShortHop Yoshi Bomb's stars for edge-guarding the opponent on ledge? Short hopping but then inputting Down B quick can cancel the jump making yoshi just do a somersault land C: To continue going off the question can these stars hit characters with a huge character model like DK Zard Yoshi's nose

 

[RaptorTEC]

I don't think I understand.. @.@

 

[Delta-cod]

I'd say you're better off Dtilting the opponent. Dtilt sweeps people off the ledge and is faster. It also hits at a better angle than the stars.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yeah don't use down b like that. It's good that you're trying to think creatively though. It's just a star isn't going to do much and if it doesn't work you're left wide open. One thing you can do with down b near the ledge though is reading their ledge hop and doing a grounded down b to hit them as they're ascending from the ledge hop. It's quick and can kill early because its hard to properly DI since people never expect it and they're already high in the air from the ledge hop. Plus grounded down b is stronger than an aerial one.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Masonamace the Alert said you quoted me but you didn't

 

[Nikes]

One thing you can do with down b near the ledge though is reading their ledge hop and doing a grounded down b to hit them as they're ascending from the ledge hop. It's quick and can kill early because its hard to properly DI since people never expect it and they're already high in the air from the ledge hop. Plus grounded down b is stronger than an aerial one.

I've been using that recently, it's actually amazing and seems very safe. How good is Yoshi's edgeguarding skills yeah?

Quick question Yoshi Boards, I might word this wrong but:

Does a Flutter kick prevent anyone from DI'ing up out of it if Yoshi FF's the D-air or is a FF D-air more prone to DI out of easier? This question's example will involve yoshi waiting for the invinci-frames of the opponent holding the ledge almost end and SH D-air towards them with and/or without FF.

As Raptor kinda said, it's a high risk high reward, but if you're feeling really confident you can try a footstool out of offstage Dair and that gets half the cast if you catch them off guard and they fail to SDI. (Might be able to do a rising Nair out of Dair possibly?) Don't rely on it though, footstooling is risky and often puts you in an awkward position to recover, you can end up gimping yourself >_>.

I only really use B as JCEL, am I wrong for doing it? I find it has the most range and it makes it rather flexible. I don't see myself just using B, but should I? Also, I don't know (as in, apply in-game) how to B-Reverse.
Also I find myself spotdodge panic sometimes because Yoshi can't do much except grab (which has slow startup) OoS. ):

You could always jump toward your opponent and B-reverse away to bait an attack then go for a Bair or something?

Which scenarios do you find yourself spotdodging out of habit the most? Don't forget jab as your panic attack, jab 2 gets them out of your face and you can pivot grab out of jab 1.

 

[Masonomace]

Sorry about that Swei I deleted the post cus I felt like I had no idea what I was talking about but here:

Don't eggspect a lot since I put some time but not enough to be good with yoshi but JCEL'ing with B is okay for mixup(?) JCEL from what I've seen you usually force your way in approaching with it making sure the JC has super armor while you EL someone. Using just a stationary B you'd have to do some really ****ery movement like constant DR's to make em sit in shield scared, or just jab-1 and EL on ground . Applying B-reverse can involve a lot of situations being on ledge or stage. You can jab once and do a retreating dashtrot and B-reverse EL kind of like a pivot grab, but that's just one scenario of using it. Spotdodge panic seems common and abused with good reason Yoshi's got a nice spotdodge but maybe yoshi's able to Draconic reverse away after spotdodge?

 

[MasterSplinter]

What is the Draconic Reverse/What does it do/ How do you do it/ Why should you do it?

 

[Masonomace]

What is the Draconic Reverse/What does it do/ How do you do it/ Why should you do it?

I'm pretty sure this is a very popular question for Yoshi Q+A boards but everything you seek is in this Guide. I'd read this guide since it will help you very much with your yoshi skill exploration:
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-hatch-a-healthy-yoshi-a-group-project-who-wants-it.143857/

For now I'll give short n sweet answers that I remember:

What is Dragonic Reverse? It's very similar to Melee Wavedash but weaker ; DR aka Dragonic/Draconic Reverse is one of the few if not the only Wavedash(s) in brawl.

What does it do? It does a mix of canceling your Double Jump while sliding tiny movement on ground allowing anything to be done on ground such as inputting attacks dashing tilts smashes etc.

How do you do it? you have to input three steps/buttons to make DR work:

1. Jump
2. Double Jump
3. Attack/C-stick (B-air, F-air, N-air, & U-air all work to DR)

The only way you'll be able to DR successfully is by doing all these inputs/buttons within a 9 frame window aka this is not easy.

Why should you do it? You can choose not to but every Yoshi player can put effort and time into implementing this into your Yoshi gameplay. DR can cancel your first and Double Jump when ledge-jumping from the ledge up in the air. Yup you can cancel all that jazz and DR on stage surface and dash grab them. This entire video not only proves that practicing DR is worth it but also shows you what you can do with DR with your ledge options.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM&list=FLxwCcOCRQfebDn6Gv75_kjw&index=34

 

[MasterSplinter]

Btw ggs on thursday sorry my laptop died. You got one mean ivysaur

 

[CourageHound]

I'm starting to get the timing of DR down really well. I've been getting them somewhat consistently in fact(my highest use of it in sucession is 4-5 times in a row ). Once i've developed it more, how exactly could I utilize it in matches effectively?

 

[Sharky]

spacing mindgames, ledgeplay (learn to dr from the ledge), platforms (learn dr waveland), and extra mobility for following/reading air/tech movements. It's something you'll have to overuse a bit yourself to get used to when you should/shouldn't use it, really. It's gonna suck and people are gonna tell you to stop doing it cause they think it's stupid lol, but keep at it and eventually it will be useful.

edit: oh and item play. definitely use it against diddy lol

 

[Deleted member 189823]

What's our spacing game based on, really? Most of what I can see, is us spacing our B-Air so the tip of our tail hits...our others moves seem much more fitting for melee-range. "GTFO" moves, mostly. bigman mentioned something about U-Air spacing so you land behind your opponent and hit them with the tip of the tail, or something like that.

 

[CourageHound]

The way I see it, you really only want to space back-air when you are either putting on pressure or at neutral and trying to stall for an option. It it a good poke for the use of spacing but just doesn't cut it vs a lot of characters as a sole spacing tool. What you mainly want to do is combine Yoshi's mobility with options like bair, retreating piv grab, DJ Egg Lay baits, etc, and simply just not get hit while spacing your possition. Yoshi's ninja like qualities make this very easy. Dtilt is another good spacing option we have that has great range. Just try out different things vs different characters and opponents.

Not sure what Scatz meant about u-air spacing. He could tell ya about that I guess.
@ Scatz

 

[Scatz]

It tends to vary depending on the playstyle, but my spacing game was based on Jab, Bair, Egglay, and other more risky moves to bait out stuff from opponents. Playing on the ground is not easy since it's not as mobile (without DR), but by using select few moves (Jab 1, F-tilt, U-tilt, U-smash) you're essentially setting up pressure for either juggle attempts or to make them sit in their shield while you pick away at their tendencies (this part is more referenced to jabbing). The U-air tip was what we got from Karamity. You would bait your opponent to shield, making them think you're going to do a Bair, then you land behind them and use Uair on the tip of their shield to try and shield poke. If you didn't shield poke, then the position you're left in was harder to get counter attacked, but it's risky from the beginning if you don't know how your opponent will react when you cross over them.

What do you see spacing as? Just curious.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I've always understood spacing as the thing Marth & MK do with their F-Airs (for example), to attack and preassure their opponent at a close and safe range.

Other questions:

- Is there some trick to make the both hits of the Egg hit an opponent? You know, to bounce on their shield and hit with the exploding hitbox.
- Taking a look at MX's latest videos. What is the purpose of Down B at Yoshi's Island? I'd like to implement that, to my game. 8P (by the way, great job out there d00d)

 

[Scatz]

No one has found info on making the egg hit twice.

Down-B on a slope will cancel the animation when landing if you slide off a ledge. It's good to use, but I never got into using it. Someone else will have to answer that question.

You're right on the spacing part. For us we do similar methods, but sometimes we have to not space the attacks traditionally and just push the attack right into them. That's normally done to get behind an opponent who can't attack well with their B-airs. We have methods to break traditional spacing with moves like Dash Grab, Egg Lay, and Egg Toss, but I don't want to get into the whole RPS game explanation.

 

[CourageHound]

You guys have any tips for the R.O.B. match-up?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

It's theorized that Zudenka may be the one true Golden Yoshi King.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Zude was one of the Yoshi's with just the right amount of smart play, tech skill without doing it just to look fancy like most of us (outside of scatz), and aggressiveness... well actually maybe a bit too aggressive but it worked out for him.

He's a good Yoshi, but sadly don't think he's ever brought results with him to the table, he's always been the kinda Yoshi that had really good replays uploaded for him that came from friendlies.


GYK was... man it's hard to explain the guy lol. He'd put online experience first when matchup discussion happened and think it mattered, Rizen tried doing the same thing during the MU v3 discussions and it was hard to crack his shell from what I've seen.
Along with the fact GYK loved to criticize us quite a bit in Youtube videos of us and tell us what we should've done that would've worked cause it did for him against XxwolfmasterxX on wifi and how bad we were. He kinda sorta stopped that and moved onto "GOD BLESS YOU EVERYONE" while still criticizing without trying to make it too obvious I guess for him but when it still is to us like seeing a black cloud in the white sky, which not shore if ironic on the god bless part like in a imaqtpie (league) level or actually serious about all that.

So wudn't really call Zude a GYK legend. GYK is a special kind of legend, Delta and Raptor just provoked him with using his tag in tournaments and they got negative comments from GYK in response while me and I believe scatz just said it the way it was and also got negative comments from him.

 

[Phan7om]

Yo Yoshis~ Im not a Yoshi main so I really dont know anything about the viability of his techniques. My question is, How viable is Sheild Drop > Dr. Waveland > Attack/Anything(on platforms of course)?... or is that even possible? If it is, how fast is it?

Im sure this has been discovered, but I dont know the acual name for it. I can tell its a really technical technique, then again Yoshi is the most technical character (we all know its true).

 

[CourageHound]

Yo Yoshis~ Im not a Yoshi main so I really dont know anything about the viability of his techniques. My question is, How viable is Sheild Drop > Dr. Waveland > Attack/Anything(on platforms of course)?... or is that even possible? If it is, how fast is it?

Im sure this has been discovered, but I dont know the acual name for it. I can tell its a really technical technique, then again Yoshi is the most technical character (we all know its true).

Well, umm, Yoshi can't do anything out of shield drop. Literaly. Those extra frames of lag in his "hatching" animation prevent it. However the regular waveland onto platforms > anything has the same applications as wavedashing in melee. Providing you can consistently do it, it gives you more options. I would learn when and when not to use it since if you scrutinize the speed, it is slightly slower than platform cancelling on say Smashville.

Watch these - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhaBzJpVSXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM(I actually see a youtube comment of yours in this one)

 

[Phan7om]

Well, umm, Yoshi can't do anything out of shield drop. Literaly. Those extra frames of lag in his "hatching" animation prevent it. However the regular waveland onto platforms > anything has the same applications as wavedashing in melee. Providing you can consistently do it, it gives you more options. I would learn when and when not to use it since if you scrutinize the speed, it is slightly slower than platform cancelling on say Smashville.

Watch these - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhaBzJpVSXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM(I actually see a youtube comment of yours in this one)

Pffft, well now i know lol. My lack of Yoshi knowledge is showing. The 1st video by Slice is where I came up with the idea, even tho I seen that video years ago when I use to "main" Yoshi. It always got me thinkin', what If Yoshi could Sheild drop... and then instantly waveland onto platforms... that Oos option would be sooo OP. xD. Welp, seems he cant lol. Thanks Courage!

 

[CourageHound]

Pffft, well now i know lol. My lack of Yoshi knowledge is showing. The 1st video by Slice is where I came up with the idea, even tho I seen that video years ago when I use to "main" Yoshi. It always got me thinkin', what If Yoshi could Sheild drop... and then instantly waveland onto platforms... that Oos option would be sooo OP. xD. Welp, seems he cant lol. Thanks Courage!

Yea no problem. Yoshi can platform drop from shield though.

 

[Phan7om]

Yea no problem. Yoshi can platform drop from shield though.

Then yeah, it should work then.. in theory, cuz a platform sheild drop was what I was talking about. I know Yoshi cant like Dr Oos. I knew I wasnt going nuts... Or does it not work frame wise, as in can you sheild drop, DJ 1 frame after, and then Dr your DJ onto the platform that you just sheild dropped from?

 

[CourageHound]

Then yeah, it should work then.. in theory, cuz a platform sheild drop was what I was talking about. I know Yoshi cant like Dr Oos. I knew I wasnt going nuts... Or does it not work frame wise, as in can you sheild drop, DJ 1 frame after, and then Dr your DJ onto the platform that you just sheild dropped from?

I do not know the frame data however based on how dropping through platforms work, you might be able to do that. Havn't tried it.

 

[Phan7om]

I do not know the frame data however based on how dropping through platforms work, you might be able to do that. Havn't tried it.

Yeah, I just tried to do it in training mode and it looks like it may not work because to Dr waveland you need to be a little bit above the platform, and I think yoshi'd be in the DJ for too long to Dr it since to Dr, yoshi's model would need to be going downwards right?... So I probably just disproved my own theory lmao.

 

[Scatz]

To DR waveland, you have to be above the platform to cancel the DJ aerial. This mainly works because his DJ goes downward slightly before going up.

 

[Rizen]

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...e-before-posting.221485/page-51#post-16475083
^G/Y K did the exact same thing on the Link forums.

GYK was... man it's hard to explain the guy lol. He'd put online experience first when matchup discussion happened and think it mattered, Rizen tried doing the same thing during the MU v3 discussions and it was hard to crack his shell from what I've seen.

Just to set the record strait, I based absolutely nothing on online play. That was a slanderous rumor people who had never once played the Link MU started about me. With MUs like Link vs ZSS LordXavior suggested that Link loses -1 after playing Salem (who agreed) irl and I backed him up. You can't get higher level play than someone who is PRed 2nd place in RI using only Link vs the ZSS who won APEX. I'm not going to back down to people who have never played the MU. Too bad 2 of our panel members didn't show up.

Edit, I'll ask a few questions since I'm here. What's with all the Yoshi holding a MK mask avatars? What is the difference between Yoshi's Ftilt and Dtilt?