SOVAman
Smash Hero
Yes they can everyone on the Official CG List can be CG so all of you guys need to stop bitching about how me and Mmac are wrong if you can't do the CG then too bad.
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The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda
- Thread starter Mmac
- Start date
Bwett
Smash Ace
I'm not really going to argue with anyone on here about CG. It's of no use to do so. From my personal experience, if it is possible (which it can be and I just suck at it or something), it is too unreliable for me to use in tournament. I'm going to either make a post or a thread later discussing how to punish falco from CG release for those that can't do the CG.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I've had snakes recover high to avoid me (this is after I Fsmash them or some attack that launches them up a bit and off the stage), when they cypher during their second jump it's annoying and all I can hit them with is an egg. But yeah besides that his only chance is a FF airdodge if he's high enough to do it. Having a ranged grab that can actually grab off stage is nice (hate how links and samus' just go through him). Anyone ever have the cypher cancel an egg lay for a gimp before? too funChaingrabbing questions. Chaingrabbing thread. Preeze.
Now, onto...Snake, was it?
I saw what you posted and, while I think you're approaching the matchup very objectively (which is great), you're hesitant to give Yoshi that thumbs up for guaranteed KOs offstage. When Yoshi gets Snake offstage, he only gets back when YOU SCREW UP. This bears repeating. Yoshi has guaranteed KOs on Snake offstage.
Yes, I sympathize with you on up tilt. I've seen characters hold an entire stock lead over Snake just to get up tilted into oblivion and lose because they couldn't control their urges to approach aerially. As such, you're going to want to avoid the lkasdlakjdlskadjF*CKKKKKKKKKKKKK
ICECREAMHEADACHEWOWWTF
Okay, so avoid up tilt. Grab lots. Don't dash attack, it's bad. KO offstage, and...yeah.
I'll be back in a bit. >_<
Nades in this matchup are lame, the eggs just detonate them in his hands so they'll stop using them most of the time. If they enjoy hiding in their shield (like alot of snakes), i usually egg lay approach for fun. I usually don't mind the Utilt since most snakes will try and save it till kill percents (like 110-115 on yoshi...lucky us?) which when in kill percents i just chuck eggs until he can get me with it, Ftlit is an annoying beast though. This matchup would be pretty easy if snake wasn't so heavy so besides edgeguarding he's a real chore for me to kill. I'd say 60:40 snake just because he has a ridiculous kill move and is heavier than yoshi.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
I chaingrab quite a bit.
But yeah, Snake is annoying. He's an amazing camper who can kill at low %, and although he can be chaingrabbed, it's hard to do it on him. 6:4, Snake's favor.
But yeah, Snake is annoying. He's an amazing camper who can kill at low %, and although he can be chaingrabbed, it's hard to do it on him. 6:4, Snake's favor.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Remember, Egg's are an excellent Momentum Stall to counter Snake's Recovery if he goes high. You can easily follow it up with an aerial once you knock him off.
bigman40
Smash Master
Glad to see his name is getting somewhere. I taught him a little (just a few tips) when the game was out. But yeah, this matchup is 6:4 snake's favor. It's not a good match that I'd want to go with alot.I'm with bwett and swoll when it comes to chaingrabbing.
Snake is a pain
I've played Ajax, Ultimate razor, T-rex, DSF, and pozerwolf.......and never have i had fun with this matchup
Poltergust
Smash Master
Yep, those grenades are a huge pain. Thankfully an egg will make them blow up if he hasn't dropped them yet. Eggs, once again, are extremely important in this match-up.
Also, Yoshi owns Snake in the air. Thank God for that.
But yeah, 6:4 Snake's favor.
Also, Yoshi owns Snake in the air. Thank God for that.
But yeah, 6:4 Snake's favor.
Admittedly, the matchup itself is not fun.Fighting bad Snakes is a fun mini-game, though.
About Snake's recovery, though, if he goes too high to forward air, just calmly stand your ground near the edge and egg. I've posted this before in a different thread, I think, but when a character is falling (especially one like Snake), the only options available are to land on the stage or to grab the edge; since the Up+B has already been used, landing away from the edge won't help them. With a steady stream of eggs, you can either direct them where you want them to go (preferably to the edge, but interrupt their fall with a grab) or force an airdodge, which you can grab when they land.
Grabbing is amazing.
Snake loses everything that makes him top tier when he uses his Up+B, so make sure to take every possible advantage you can. There's no reason that Snake should not die immediately after he uses his Up+B everytime he uses it.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Hmmm, shiri i think i love you. XD
Ill try the wait and grab.
Ill try the wait and grab.
<3Patience is more than a virtue in this matchup (and this game).
Playing it safe and playing it smart in this matchup may seem silly and overly simplistic, but it works.
Simple things like staying on the ground, walking and not running, waiting at advantageous points on the stage (sometimes without even doing anything at all), patient eggs, and smart grabs will net you clutch stock and more than enough matches to make the matchup less painful.
My matchup experience only stems from poor and mediocre Snakes, though. Thankfully, this is the tournament standard playstyle from what I've seen and played. Creative and imaginative Snakes are probably much harder to fight simply because they're more active and a little less predictable while still being smart and effective.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
Anyone have experience with decent or good Snakes?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Ive played hall, who is a ranked socal player, numerous times,
and he plays nothing like ANY other snake. He plays campy, but much differently than any other campy snakes, he doesnt really use his tilts as much as other snakes because hes usually not next to you. He just sets traps and forces you into them, and its really difficult to deal with. Snakes neutral air is broken. =D
Ive beaten pretty much every other snake ive played pretty easily. I like the matchup unless its vs hall. Spam grabs, dont use aerials on his shield usually, batter his shield with eggs and dont give him time to throw his grenade.
and he plays nothing like ANY other snake. He plays campy, but much differently than any other campy snakes, he doesnt really use his tilts as much as other snakes because hes usually not next to you. He just sets traps and forces you into them, and its really difficult to deal with. Snakes neutral air is broken. =D
Ive beaten pretty much every other snake ive played pretty easily. I like the matchup unless its vs hall. Spam grabs, dont use aerials on his shield usually, batter his shield with eggs and dont give him time to throw his grenade.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Okay 6:4 Snake, now lets go back to Lucario.
Finish what you start MMAC.....back to Lucario we go.
Finish what you start MMAC.....back to Lucario we go.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
Nah, we need to get a consensus on Link first.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Yeah, that's true. The main thing I've noticed (which might be the primary contributing factor to such a wide variety of match-up estimates) is that for the most part, no two competitive Yoshi players seem to play alike at all.
Seeing Mmac's Yoshi in action, for instance, is a completely different ball game from seeing Bwett's. It's actually pretty cool when you think about it. It sort of speaks as a testament to the character when no two people seem to play him at all similarly in any given situation.
Seeing Mmac's Yoshi in action, for instance, is a completely different ball game from seeing Bwett's. It's actually pretty cool when you think about it. It sort of speaks as a testament to the character when no two people seem to play him at all similarly in any given situation.
bigman40
Smash Master
I guess that factor would be since most of us have success with a character that can be played as a few different ways. You're right it's interesting that it's common with Yoshi (that's what I've seen mostly), but it makes coming to coming to conclusions that much harder since most of us are very different in playing styles.
As for Link, unless that character is seen more, we can't give that much of a consensus seeing as how we can't even agree with certain things ourselves. We should focus on the characters we're likely to see more often before hitting the rare characters. It will allow for more time when the more common characters are done.
As for Link, unless that character is seen more, we can't give that much of a consensus seeing as how we can't even agree with certain things ourselves. We should focus on the characters we're likely to see more often before hitting the rare characters. It will allow for more time when the more common characters are done.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I play a good snake quite a bit. But I'm one of the most inconsistent smashers so I either get two stocked or give a 2 stocking (in betweens too of course)
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Snake is indefinitely finished 6:4.
Link and Lucario arent.
I believe we should ask for assistance in those 2.
Hmmm call it far fetched but what if we asked...well outside parties.
By that I mean.
Not Link or Yoshi mains...kinda odd, but I dunno, have some Link mains, some Yoshi mains in then some other people and well...it's like a Court thing where the outside dudes are judges.
Kinda risky (since well it could not work) but eh....throwing out ideas.
Link and Lucario arent.
I believe we should ask for assistance in those 2.
Hmmm call it far fetched but what if we asked...well outside parties.
By that I mean.
Not Link or Yoshi mains...kinda odd, but I dunno, have some Link mains, some Yoshi mains in then some other people and well...it's like a Court thing where the outside dudes are judges.
Kinda risky (since well it could not work) but eh....throwing out ideas.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Airborne
Smash Lord
why don't we just get popular snakes and links to face popular yoshi's in offline 3 stock matches....then record them and put them online..... it'd be better with hands on material and up-to-date players who are more distinguished with their characters than the majority of the smash world.... IMO, this would work if we could get some together for about 10 matches to look at.... of each....
Poltergust
Smash Master
But how would we arrange something like that?
It would be easier to do it online, but you know... it's online. =/
It would be easier to do it online, but you know... it's online. =/
D
Deleted member
Guest
That doesnt prove anything, who cares if a snake beats a yoshi or vica versa. I can beat every snake in san diego without trouble except for one that is a better player than me. Does that mean yoshi beats snake? No it doesnt. These arent noob snakes either, they are very good snakes who place well in tournament. I just have a very easy time with the matchup. Nothing is set in stone. Throw eggs, go for grabs, predict stuff and grab, bair if you think its safe, go spike or wait for snake then grab, etc. Not much to say. Id say its 4-6 or 4.5-5.5
Lucario i think is done, 4-6 seems to be an agreeable number.
Link we should put as 4-6 for now and come back later me thinks.
Olimar should be next, I have a lot to say and a few people who may back me up.
Lucario i think is done, 4-6 seems to be an agreeable number.
Link we should put as 4-6 for now and come back later me thinks.
Olimar should be next, I have a lot to say and a few people who may back me up.
Mmac
Smash Lord
D
Deleted member
Guest
Olimar isnt yoshis advantage.
Its da truth.
Its da truth.
Gindler
Smash Champion
Yeah, sure you can kill pikmin with ease, but that grab of his is just toooo annoying to me.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
Yeah, let's discuss Oli for week 5.
Mmac, change Snake to 4.
Mmac, change Snake to 4.
Tidycats29
Smash Cadet
yeah i guess i agree snake beats yoshi 6-4
as llong as you choose a flat stage then you have a very good chance of beating a pro snake
cause you can air combo him very quickly
and snake doesnt like eggs
if you get him off stage then its pretty easy to kill him or rack up damage with Uair
you blow his bombs when you hit him with egg
things go downhill when you face him in a stage like say battlefield or lluigi's mansion
that b*stard is almost unaproachable, nuff said
i say 6-4 sounds about right
his up tilt is annoying if you are trying to approach with nair or bair
and we all know how his side tilt is
so you have to aproach with caution
a few grabs and eggs
use dead jumps for mindgames snake users tend to get ahead of themselves at times
off stage you have clear advantageas i said already make him suffer
but onstage use tactics and be careful
as llong as you choose a flat stage then you have a very good chance of beating a pro snake
cause you can air combo him very quickly
and snake doesnt like eggs
if you get him off stage then its pretty easy to kill him or rack up damage with Uair
you blow his bombs when you hit him with egg
things go downhill when you face him in a stage like say battlefield or lluigi's mansion
that b*stard is almost unaproachable, nuff said
i say 6-4 sounds about right
his up tilt is annoying if you are trying to approach with nair or bair
and we all know how his side tilt is
so you have to aproach with caution
a few grabs and eggs
use dead jumps for mindgames snake users tend to get ahead of themselves at times
off stage you have clear advantageas i said already make him suffer
but onstage use tactics and be careful
Mmac
Smash Lord
I still need a summary on Snake though. Plus there is barley any discussion period, especially for someone who is so popular......
D
Deleted member
Guest
Lets make a thread on the snake boards?
I will begin discussion on olimar, with your permission mmac.
I will begin discussion on olimar, with your permission mmac.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
If we're starting discussion on Olimar, why bother making a topic on the Snake boards? That would just muddle everything up.
D
Deleted member
Guest
We should either continue with snake and bring it to their boards, or go to oli.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Than continue with Snake! Geez, everyone is telling me to move on, then it's like whah!
Wow after all that discussion I can't believe Link is at a 5.....You'll definatly have to come back in order to get that right.
If you want. Maybe some online matches will help you get an idea the matchup, even if it is wifi
I heard somebody though you could outspam Link?
LOL LOL LOL
Play me I have one of the best spam games for a Link player.....I'll arrow cancel you to death.
O and the CG isn't as great as you think it is whoever mentioned it.
If your playing a good link. he KNOWS YOU HAVE A CHAIN GRAB. and he will always have a bomb.
Don't forget Link can still
F-Smash
Zair
ZAC any air move wit ha bomb
So no it won't hold him back.....
Just saying
I know your on snake. but whatever I just thought I'd drop a note....
If you want. Maybe some online matches will help you get an idea the matchup, even if it is wifi
I heard somebody though you could outspam Link?
LOL LOL LOL
Play me I have one of the best spam games for a Link player.....I'll arrow cancel you to death.
O and the CG isn't as great as you think it is whoever mentioned it.
If your playing a good link. he KNOWS YOU HAVE A CHAIN GRAB. and he will always have a bomb.
Don't forget Link can still
F-Smash
Zair
ZAC any air move wit ha bomb
So no it won't hold him back.....
Just saying
I know your on snake. but whatever I just thought I'd drop a note....
bigman40
Smash Master
Wow after all that discussion I can't believe Link is at a 5.....You'll definatly have to come back in order to get that right.
If you want. Maybe some online matches will help you get an idea the matchup, even if it is wifi
I heard somebody though you could outspam Link?
LOL LOL LOL
Play me I have one of the best spam games for a Link player.....I'll arrow cancel you to death.
O and the CG isn't as great as you think it is whoever mentioned it.
If your playing a good link. he KNOWS YOU HAVE A CHAIN GRAB. and he will always have a bomb.
Don't forget Link can still
F-Smash
Zair
ZAC any air move wit ha bomb
So no it won't hold him back.....
Just saying
I know your on snake. but whatever I just thought I'd drop a note....
He's not currently decided as of now due to the amount of people who are not convinced at any ratio that is correct. He'll be mentioned again when we get through with some other matchups.