Social The Koopa Prince: Bowser Jr - Come introduce yourself!

[Zzuxon]

Toad isn't a protagonist. It's a generic race that is sometimes playable in the multiplayer platformers when Miyamoto feels animating dress physics is too much for NSMB.

"Hmm, I feel like playing Mario Kart. But which character should I choose? Maybe I'll play as a Toad, or maybe a Yoshi."
Thought no one ever. You're arguement is laughable. Hell, you refer to Toad in the singular IN YOUR VERY COMMENT. It is a bull****, made up excuse to exclude one of the most well known video game characters ever. Anyone with sense knows Toad is the go-to 4th man in Mario. SMB2 and 3DW prove it. You know it too, and just don't want to admit it.

 

[♦ Neosquid ♦]

This is the comment that feel very bad for both thread, here and mine.

No one said Paper Mario is [deconfirmed] and in fact, it's pure assumption like sal being the final roster.

To tell that it's bad to see him not being in FOR NOW and put the fault on jr is sad for both this thread and mine.

I really don't like this. I'm ok to support as long as others aren't hurt in their support and also, I said multiple time that I'm neutral on jr.

Don't get me wrong, Jr looks good and unique as I tough he would (unexpected way, but still unique), but don't assume another candidate is deconfirmed when it was never stated to blame a character.

I'm actually aren't even supposed to tell this here, but this is getting annoying with how much support threads like mine has difficulties because of assumption not stated, spreading this on other threads makes this worse.

I'd bet $200 that Paper Mario won't be in this game. Three Mario newcomers? Nah.

"Hmm, I feel like playing Mario Kart. But which character should I choose? Maybe I'll play as a Toad, or maybe a Yoshi."
Thought no one ever. You're arguement is laughable. Hell, you refer to Toad in the singular IN YOUR VERY COMMENT. It is a bull****, made up excuse to exclude one of the most well known video game characters ever. Anyone with sense knows Toad is the 4th man in Mario. SMB2 and 3DW. You know it too, and just don't want to admit it.

screw toad

 

[Zzuxon]

screw toad

The eloquence and intellect, not to mention capitalization and punctuation, you display in this comment is astounding. You have forever convinced me of the validity of your position.

 

[♦ Neosquid ♦]

The eloquence and intellect you display in this comment is astounding. You have forever convinced me of the validity of your position.

screw toad

seriously tho chill out, your last post towards sonicbrawler was ridiculous

 

[ChikoLad]

I hope for Captain Toad to finally join the league to take back the title of being their representative/leader.

I hope Captain Toad at least has a little bit of a cute story to his game. That's why I love him in Galaxy.

Looking forward to the game, though more because the Captain Toad levels in 3D World were an interesting concept that I found to be fun and actually revisited on occasion, and that had little to do with the fact I was playing as a Toad. I'm actually one of the few people I know who are genuinely looking forward to that game.

Though I shan't turn this into the Captain Toad topic.

...I wonder what the Bowser Jr Amiibo is gonna be like. That could be really cool, with the Clown Car in the mix.

"Hmm, I feel like playing Mario Kart. But which character should I choose? Maybe I'll play as a Toad, or maybe a Yoshi."
Thought no one ever. You're arguement is laughable. Hell, you refer to Toad in the singular IN YOUR VERY COMMENT. It is a bull****, made up excuse to exclude one of the most well known video game characters ever. Anyone with sense knows Toad is the go-to 4th man in Mario. SMB2 and 3DW prove it. You know it too, and just don't want to admit it.

The problem with this comment is that the main Yoshi, the one you normally play as or the one from Super Mario World, actually has a distinct full name:

However, no such thing exists for Toad. Captain Toad is his own unique character, but he's not the same as the generic Toad from Mario Kart or the NSMB games and such. The insinuation that it is a consistent character also falls flat because the Toads you play as in many games have different appearances. In the NES version of SMB2, the Toad you play as is blue with a blue jacket. Then in the All-Stars/SNES version (and in Mario Kart and such), he is red with a blue jacket. Then in NSMB, you have a yellow Toad and a blue Toad. Then in 3D World, you have Blue Toad. But then you also notice that same coloured Toads are often on-screen at the same time, including the red Toad with a blue jacket.

There is absolutely no way you can insinuate there is "one main Toad", it's never been specified, and even if someone from Nintendo came out and said there is one main Toad, I'd call bull****, because there is too much inconsistency for that to be true.

 

[Zzuxon]

seriously tho chill out, your last post towards sonicbrawler was ridiculous

How so? I come here for debate and discussion, I would very much enjoy for you to try and defend your position.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So I was reminded by the Koopa Clown Car seems to use some sort of tongue attack?

Considering we now have Zero Suit/Bikini Top Samus and Oil Armor Underwear Shulk...

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Smash will have it's first female Villian..... Wendy!

 

[aldelaro5]

I'd bet $200 that Paper Mario won't be in this game. Three Mario newcomers? Nah.


screw toad

And no one expected 4 fe rep -> this argument got proven irrelevant anyway.

And Dr would be a clone so it's not much for dev time if they needed it.

Seriously, the repping argument is not relevant especially considering it's now because of a tease likely to be a new series.

I don't get it no one will complain if he gets his series and everyone will complain if he's mario rep while it's the freaking same character.

And also, who predicted 7 mario rep? It's illogical to deny something when something even more unexpected happened before.

Like the rep doesn't matter and I'm kinda tired to say it.

 

[Zzuxon]

The problem with this comment is that the main Yoshi, the one you normally play as or the one from Super Mario World, actually has a distinct full name:

However, no such thing exists for Toad. Captain Toad is his own unique character, but he's not the same as the generic Toad from Mario Kart or the NSMB games and such. The insinuation that it is a consistent character also falls flat because the Toads you play as in many games have different appearances. In the NES version of SMB2, the Toad you play as is blue with a blue jacket. Then in the All-Stars/SNES version (and in Mario Kart and such), he is red with a blue jacket. Then in NSMB, you have a yellow Toad and a blue Toad. Then in 3D World, you have Blue Toad. But then you also notice that same coloured Toads are often on-screen at the same time, including the red Toad with a blue jacket.

There is absolutely no way you can insinuate there is "one main Toad", it's never been specified, and even if someone from Nintendo came out and said there is one main Toad, I'd call bull****, because there is too much inconsistency for that to be true.

In the NES version of SMB2, Peach has brown hair. Are Peach's a generic species? In 3d World, Toad isn't red to make him easy to differentiate from Mario. However, he is still referred to as Toad in game. Not a toad, Toad. In Mario Kart? Toad. In his smash Trophies? Toad. Not to mention that in the japanese version of the games, Toad does have a distinct name, Kinopio, as opposed to the Kino species.

 

[Dan]

Despite being one of my top requested newcomers, I'm upset with what they did with Jr., because the Koopa Clown Car IS the character, not Bowser Jr. The slot might as well say Koopa Clown Car.

 

[Zzuxon]

Despite being one of my top requested newcomers, I'm upset with what they did with Jr., because the Koop Clown Car IS the character, not Bowser Jr. The slot might as well say Koopa Clown Car.

Despite being one of my top requested characters, I'm upset with what they did with Samus, because the Varia Suit IS the character, not samus.

 

[♦ Neosquid ♦]

There is absolutely no way you can insinuate there is "one main Toad", it's never been specified, and even if someone from Nintendo came out and said there is one main Toad, I'd call bull****, because there is too much inconsistency for that to be true.

I thought there was some confirmation about the whole "Toad" thing, but I'm not entirely sure.

How so? I come here for debate and discussion, I would very much enjoy for you to try and defend your position.

I'm not attacking your position itself (though I do disagree), but the way you worded your post wasn't exactly the best.

While "Toad" is an important enough character in Mario, he's still called by the name of his species and looks 100% identical to them. According to Mario Wiki (I have to use somefin as a source, it's not exactly easy to figure out his appearances in every game he's supposedly been in) he's only gone past the cameo role in Wario's Woods and SMB2. Oh, and the sport/kart games, but a lot of characters appear frequently in those. I don't understand how being a "cameo master" without a unique design or name makes him the "go-to 4th man" in Mario.

And that's assuming that this whole "Toad" thing is even true (somewhat doubtful due t sonicbrawler's post)

And no one expected 4 fe rep -> this argument got proven irrelevant anyway.

And Dr would be a clone so it's not much for dev time if they needed it.

Seriously, the repping argument is not relevant especially considering it's now because of a tease likely to be a new series.

I don't get it no one will complain if he gets his series and everyone will complain if he's mario rep while it's the freaking same character.

And also, who predicted 7 mario rep? It's illogical to deny something when something even more unexpected happened before.

Like the rep doesn't matter and I'm kinda tired to say it.

It's not irrelevant...it's very unusual for a series to get more than two new characters in one of these games. Mario is Mario, I suppose it's possible there will be a third newcomer, but it's really unlikely.

If number of representatives means nothing, then I assume you think it's possible Mario will get 100 reps in SSB5? There has to be a line somewhere.

 

[ChikoLad]

In the NES version of SMB2, Peach has brown hair. Are Peach's a generic species? In 3d World, Toad isn't red to make him easy to differentiate from Mario. However, he is still referred to as Toad in game. Not a toad, Toad. In Mario Kart? Toad. In his smash Trophies? Toad. Not to mention that in the japanese version of the games, Toad does have a distinct name, Kinopio, as opposed to the Kino species.

This argument still means nothing because the Pokémon are treated just like Toad, yet we know they aren't individual, definite characters in most cases (Mewtwo being an exception). Especially the trophy Pokémon.

And Japanese lore doesn't apply to Western localisation. By your logic, I'll start calling the Koopalings "Bowser's Minions", as they are referred to in the NSMB instruction manuals her in the PAL regions.

Despite being one of my top requested characters, I'm upset with what they did with Samus, because the Varia Suit IS the character, not samus.

You missed his entire point. He's saying this because of the Koopaling alts. You can literally switch Bowser Jr out for the Koopalings, so this is a justified disappointment. For some, this makes Bowser Jr feel less like the central playable character.

In 3d World, Toad isn't red to make him easy to differentiate from Mario.

That's crap, because Rosalina also sports a shade of blue. And white.

Toad is blue in 3D World because that game plays off of SMB2 nostalgia, and that was obvious since the game's unveiling.

 

[Zzuxon]

I thought there was some confirmation about the whole "Toad" thing, but I'm not entirely sure.


I'm not attacking your position itself (though I do disagree), but the way you worded your post wasn't exactly the best.

While "Toad" is an important enough character in Mario, he's still called by the name of his species and looks 100% identical to them. According to Mario Wiki (I have to use somefin as a source, it's not exactly easy to figure out his appearances in every game he's supposedly been in) he's only gone past the cameo role in Wario's Woods and SMB2. Oh, and the sport/kart games, but a lot of characters appear frequently in those. I don't understand how being a "cameo master" without a unique design or name makes him the "go-to 4th man" in Mario.

And that's assuming that this whole "Toad" thing is even true (somewhat doubtful due t sonicbrawler's post)

While "Yoshi" is an important enough character is Mario, he's still called by the name of his species and looks 100% identical to them. This arguement doesn't hold water.

This argument still means nothing because the Pokémon are treated just like Toad, yet we know they aren't individual, definite characters in most cases (Mewtwo being an exception). Especially the trophy Pokémon.
And yet, we have several pokemon characters in smash.

And Japanese lore doesn't apply to Western localisation. By your logic, I'll start calling the Koopalings "Bowser's Minions", as they are referred to in the NSMB instruction manuals her in the PAL regions.
It is ludicrous to suggest that localizations qualify as different games. They aren't different, they are the same game, in different languages.


You missed his entire point. He's saying this because of the Koopaling alts. You can literally switch Bowser Jr out for the Koopalings, so this is a justified disappointment. For some, this makes Bowser Jr feel less like the central playable character.
That isn't his point at all. He is upset that Jr. uses some kind of equipment to attack.


That's crap, because Rosalina also sports a shade of blue. And white.
Rosalina is slim, 8 ft. tall, and wears a dress. Also added as an afterthought, unlike Toad.

Toad is blue in 3D World because that game plays off of SMB2 nostalgia, and that was obvious since the game's unveiling.

Replies in bold.
Also, another thing I just thought of.
In Wario's Woods, NES Version, Toad's in game sprite is blue. But a high res picture that appears if you leave the title screen on shows Toad with Red spots and a blue vest. It appears that Toad's in game appearance can differ from his actual appearance...

 

[Marthmario]

Guys.
I'm no mod, but if you want to argue about Toad's importance level, please take it over to the Toad support thread. This is for Bowser Jr. Thank you.


Back to discussion. :3

 

[Zzuxon]

Guys.
I'm no mod, but if you want to argue about Toad's importance level, please take it over to the Toad support thread. This is for Bowser Jr. Thank you.


Back to discussion. :3

Toad thread got buried quite a while back. Taking the discussion there would be necromancy.

 

[Marthmario]

Toad thread got buried quite a while back. Taking the discussion there would be necromancy.

Oh, I see. However; I don't think an argument about Toad should continue to go on in the Bowser Jr. thread.

 

[ChikoLad]

And yet, we have several pokemon characters in smash.

...And? I was saying "Toad isn't a main protagonist". I never brought up anything about whether or not he should be in Smash specifically (though he already is, hiding in Peach's knickers).

It is ludicrous to suggest that localizations qualify as different games. They aren't different, they are the same game, in different languages.

Yes, but localisations change details due to cultural differences. I've seen old games that have completely different stories between regions.

That isn't his point at all. He is upset that Jr. uses some kind of equipment to attack.

Then why did he like my post?

He's not upset that Bowser Jr is driving the Koopa Clown Car in and of itself, it's that in combination with the ability to switch him out for Koopalings that just makes Bowser Jr feel less like an integral part of the figther. It makes it feel like the Koopa Clown Car is the real character, since it can literally house a Koopa of your choosing. Your Samus comparison makes absolutely no sense, since we always know it's Samus inside that suit, and the character slot always says Samus no matter what colour you choose. If the Koopalings are indeed alts for Bowser Jr, they will likely change the slot's name depending on which one you use. Which is why some might feel Bowser Jr "isn't the real character".

Rosalina is slim, 8 ft. tall, and wears a dress. Also added as an afterthought, unlike Toad.

You can't tell she's slim in that broad gown of hers, and she wears similar power up suits.
She is reduced in size for 3D World so she can have a matching hitbox. Her normal height would be nearly three times more than her height in 3D World.
Rosalina was not added as an afterthought, she was specifically given the place of the game's big, satisfying post-game unlockable, and was revealed early because she's arguably one of the game's selling points:

Yeah! (laughs) That kind of thing has been something you might expect after the ending, but this time we put it right out in front.

Iwata
Then there must be something else to look forward to after the ending, right?

Hayashida
Yes. After the ending this time, Rosalina16 becomes available as a playable character.16. Rosalina: A character who appears in the Super Mario Galaxy series.

Iwata
Oh! Rosalina?! Who insisted on that, I wonder?

Koizumi
Um, you probably think it was me! (laughs) But Motokura-san came to me and said he wanted to put her in.

Iwata
Motokura-san, why Rosalina?

Motokura
I was thinking about what would be pleasing after the ending and wanted to bring in another female character in addition to Princess Peach. Rosalina has a following among the Super Mario Galaxy fanbase, and she's appeared in Mario Kart recently, so I think she's well known.

She was even given a unique cat suit colour by special request (normally, only Mario gets unique power-up colours, as he carries the original colours of it, while the other characters just get one matching their signature colour):

Iwata
Huh? She loses an ability when transformed?!

Hayashida
That's right. But she also becomes an interesting character when transformed into a cat. She becomes a black cat.

Iwata
Oh my...

Motokura
Koizumi-san put in that request, saying it had to be black.

Iwata
I knew it was Koizumi-san!

Everyone
(laughs)

Source: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/3

In Wario's Woods, NES Version, Toad's in game sprite is blue. But a high res picture that appears if you leave the pause screen on shows Toad with Red spots and a blue vest. It appears that Toad's in game appearance can differ from his actual appearance...

In case you haven't figured it out, characters had strange colouring on the NES due to hardware limitations, or possibly because certain colours would clash with in game backgrounds.

 

[♦ Neosquid ♦]

While "Yoshi" is an important enough character is Mario, he's still called by the name of his species and looks 100% identical to them. This arguement doesn't hold water.

...Yoshi has a friggin' series

last post about this I just had to address this particular counterargument

Back to Jr., what moves could he possibly have that don't involve his clown car? I remember reading somefin in the leak thread about his up b being him jumping out of it, leaving it to explode. I assume it'll just respawn right after. Curious to see what other attacks there will be that don't have him completely relying on it.

 

[Neo Zero]

Guys.
I'm no mod, but if you want to argue about Toad's importance level, please take it over to the Toad support thread. This is for Bowser Jr. Thank you.


Back to discussion. :3

Here, let me try then.

Please take all discussion about Toad, Paper Mario, and any other Mario character back to their respective threads. This is Bowser Jr's thread, and it has no bearing on any other character, Super Mario or otherwise.

 

[Marthmario]

Here, let me try then.

Please take all discussion about Toad, Paper Mario, and any other Mario character back to their respective threads. This is Bowser Jr's thread, and it has no bearing on any other character, Super Mario or otherwise.

Thanks actual mod! It was just getting out of control in here.

 

[aldelaro5]

It's not irrelevant...it's very unusual for a series to get more than two new characters in one of these games. Mario is Mario, I suppose it's possible there will be a third newcomer, but it's really unlikely.

If number of representatives means nothing, then I assume you think it's possible Mario will get 100 reps in SSB5? There has to be a line somewhere.

...I hope you're joking.

If it's not clear, you viewed the argument has a reason any character would be playable.

We got proven that it's not the case and so, I tell you examples.

What does it have to do with limits? Look, there's limits, but we know the roster is done. Having a set amount of time to do the roster is the limit because it implies not having 100 reps and so, they not only have to limit it, but to have variety for every needed series to rep Nintendo in the game and not just in part.

Here's the problem, in the context of not having the info of a finished roster, you can't tell me the following: "X series can't have more than X rep".

Especially because the unexpected did happened before and it just happened again. Having 4 fe rep? Well, I guess it means Robin was NOT CHOSEN because of the argument since we wouldn't even see it with the other 3 repping perfectly the series right?

And I guess, the first 5 mario reps makes jr and dr useless because they are repping a series already repped enough right?

That's what it implies, am I wrong?

Look, the only thing I'm sure is that they put less limits than brawl on the roster. That's even the reason it was broad enough for jr to get in and you just denied that. Can we just be honest, does jr was likely in the first place?

He was [in the dark] for the whole time.

So, if the repping argument is true, jr would have no reasons to be playable and yet, he is at 99.99999999999999999% to be so unless the leak is fake which is not even a possibility I consider, the argument is just not the truth.

I hope you got that because it makes me unwilling to like jr to have to bring up something that makes his thread and mine look bad for a bad reason.

 

[Neo Zero]

Ya, before you guys continue this argument, take it to PM between yourselves. You've been warned

I suppose I never actually said what I think of Jr. in public btw. I ADORE his clown car moveset so much, it reps him so well imo.

 

[Zzuxon]

Yes, but localisations change details due to cultural differences. I've seen old games that have completely different stories between regions.

You can't tell she's slim in that broad gown of hers, and she wears similar power up suits.
She is reduced in size for 3D World so she can have a matching hitbox. Her normal height would be nearly three times more than her height in 3D World.
Rosalina was not added as an afterthought, she was specifically given the place of the game's big, satisfying post-game unlockable, and was revealed early because she's arguably one of the game's selling points:

In case you haven't figured it out, characters had strange colouring on the NES due to hardware limitations, or possibly because certain colours would clash with in game backgrounds.

Woah, Rosalina has a different height in 3d World?
Clearly, Rosalinas are a generic species, and not an individual, the same way Toad being blue in 3d World means there is no the Toad.
With that, on the instruction of Mods and the need to watch Dr. Who, I must end the debate. It has been fun.

 

[Neo Zero]

Just because you acknowledge what I said doesn't mean you can continue the argument AFTER I told you to drop it.

 

[Zzuxon]

Just because you acknowledge what I said doesn't mean you can continue the argument AFTER I told you to drop it.

I apologize, You're point is fair.

 

[Marthmario]

Ya, before you guys continue this argument, take it to PM between yourselves. You've been warned

I suppose I never actually said what I think of Jr. in public btw. I ADORE his clown car moveset so much, it reps him so well imo.

This man knows what's up.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm really hoping that he truly has the Koopalings alts. I actually prefer them over Jr. so this is a blessing for me.(Not that I hate Jr. or anything).

I wonder if the different Koopalings will change the text to actually display their names. Also, voices?

 

[♦ Neosquid ♦]

I wonder if the different Koopalings will change the text to actually display their names. Also, voices?

I'd assume so. Doubt they'd be so lazy.

 

[kylexv]

Add me to the supporters list please!

 

[False Sense]

So I was reminded by the Koopa Clown Car seems to use some sort of tongue attack?

Considering we now have Zero Suit/Bikini Top Samus and Oil Armor Underwear Shulk...

Oh... dear...

...Anyway, how much of Bowser Jr's move set do we actually know? From what I know, there's the cannon ball special, his up special recovery, and several standard attacks consisting of punches, possible paint brush swipes, and tongue attacks. Am I missing anything?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So I was reminded by the Koopa Clown Car seems to use some sort of tongue attack?

Considering we now have Zero Suit/Bikini Top Samus and Oil Armor Underwear Shulk...

Nostalgia Critic: "You know, for kids!"

Though doing that with Iggy makes the most sense since he looks like the most pervy of the 6 male Koopalings.

 

[♦ Neosquid ♦]

possible paint brush swipes

you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention

...assuming you have good reason to believe this

 

[Naglfarii]

This is the comment that feel very bad for both thread, here and mine.

No one said Paper Mario is [deconfirmed] and in fact, it's pure assumption like sal being the final roster.

To tell that it's bad to see him not being in FOR NOW and put the fault on jr is sad for both this thread and mine.

I really don't like this. I'm ok to support as long as others aren't hurt in their support and also, I said multiple time that I'm neutral on jr.

Don't get me wrong, Jr looks good and unique as I tough he would (unexpected way, but still unique), but don't assume another candidate is deconfirmed when it was never stated to blame a character.

I'm actually aren't even supposed to tell this here, but this is getting annoying with how much support threads like mine has difficulties because of assumption not stated, spreading this on other threads makes this worse.

It's a pretty safe assumption there aren't any more Mario characters, given that they have like 9 already

Its just a reality that some characters will crowd out others

 

[False Sense]

you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention

...assuming you have good reason to believe this

Well, I did say possible paint brush swipes, since I'm not 100% sure that's what it is, but Bowser Jr. is seen doing an upward swipe with what looks like his paint brush, as pointed out here.

You may have to watch the leaked footage to get a better view of it, though.

 

[Dan]

Despite being one of my top requested characters, I'm upset with what they did with Samus, because the Varia Suit IS the character, not samus.

What is the point of this post?

 

[Zzuxon]

What is the point of this post?

To rebutt a user's issue with Bowser Jr. fighting in a Clown Car.

 

[Dan]

To rebutt a user's issue with Bowser Jr. fighting in a Clown Car.

The point is honestly so stupid and nonsensical I can't even argue against it.

 

[Luminario]

Oh... dear...

...Anyway, how much of Bowser Jr's move set do we actually know? From what I know, there's the cannon ball special, his up special recovery, and several standard attacks consisting of punches, possible paint brush swipes, and tongue attacks. Am I missing anything?

The air attack where the Clown Car spits out a cannonball for Jr to pick up and then immediately drop, and a special that deploys a mechakoopa (we're guessing down special)
Oh and the cannon ball shot might actually be a side smash due to the yellowish flash that appears a split second before he fires. This is just a pure hypothesis right now though.
EDIT: Thank you RascalTheCharizard for uploading almost every notable thing Jr does in gif form on page 27
See the flash?