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[Super Smash Land] - Final Build 1.1 Online

Discussion in 'Brawl Workshop' started by 4nace, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. KoreanDJ111

    KoreanDJ111 Smash Lord

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    Let me know when the next beta comes out, I'll give out my input for Link.

    I really hope Link is good. The projectiles were dangerous for Mario, only problem is you can't really capitalize on it too much. The bombs will lead to interesting combos and setups, I wonder how it'll work. Also, Link's Bair/Fair should be good because he needs something to fight Kirby's Bair / Mario's Dair spam.
  2. Ultimortal

    Ultimortal Smash Rookie

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    (Edit)

    Kirby's Bair has a crazy big hitbox IMO, nothing seems to match it at the moment. He can do inescapable juggles to death over 60% quite easily on flat terrain, and it destroys fireballs. Though I think it just needs a smaller hitbox and it's fine.

    I don't think you should have a cap for hitstun, just one for velocity so the character's don't clip through the stage. Percentage would cap nicely at 999 or 9999 I think. :) What happens at really high percentages is too funny to remove. If you're thinking of special modes after the game's done, one where your percentage starts at maximum would be fun.

    Also, team matches are really funny and confusing.
  3. KoreanDJ111

    KoreanDJ111 Smash Lord

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    You mean Kirby's Bair. Kirby's Dair is mediocre at best, very slow but good at the right side of hyrule. Kirby's Bair is really good, the hitbox is a bit ridiculous, but I say make Link's Bair equally as powerful.
  4. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Link seems...okay. I still want his 64 F-Smash. I love his little sword twirl ;v;

    Sooo...when're you gonna make the how2plai video that every smash has?
  5. BigLord

    BigLord Smash Ace

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    Wow. Please make this happen :D
  6. Ultimortal

    Ultimortal Smash Rookie

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    Yes, it was a typo, I meant Bair. Anyway, it's only really effective on the bottom of Dreamland.
  7. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    Sorry Don't have all the time right now as I am about to go to bed! But I will respond to a few of the topics rather than people themselves haha.

    @Kirby Bair
    Yeah, It is a pretty awesome hitbox, but i dont think it breaks Kirby at the moment. You can juggle ai pretty good with it, but a good mario can sneak a tornado in. Players can actually DI as well to get away from it.

    @Instructional video
    Ohhh never thought about it before good idea. I was thinking of doing a virtual instruction book though. Could do both however.

    @Capping the hitstun
    Still haven't tested it, but definitely want to.

    For everyone else, I come with not really teasing but some revealing information about Demo 2, which should be out in February!

    I still expect Smash Land to be a 3-4 Part Release so Demo 2 is about 2/3rds of the game.

    Demo 2 Guaranteed Features:
    2 New Characters - Link and Pikachu
    2 New Stages - Saffron City and an Inspired Stage (My own making)
    Team Matches
    Customizable Controls In-Game

    Demo 2 Up in the Air Features:
    Arcade mode: Play against the four other characters on their n64 stages.
    Versus Options (Click that stock button for more options): Time Mode, Stage Movement On/Off, Damage Ratio, Team Attack on/off etc.


    As for the Guaranteed. I can say that Team Matches have been implemented with team attack off as default they are pretty fun, and much more dynamic than a free-for-all. Also Kirby AI > Mario AI for sure!

    [​IMG]

    That's all for now. More to come soon smashboarders!

    -4nace
  8. GeminiCrossFade

    GeminiCrossFade Smash Ace

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    Will there be unlockables for the game or no?
  9. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Read. So far we're speculating two unlockable characters, six unlockable stages, and an unlockable game mode.

    Also: Kirby's big eyes look out of place with the way Link's/Mario's eyes look.

    Can we expect Metal Mario and Master Hand for Arcade Mode bosses?

    And what about a Fighting Team? 64 had Polygons, Melee had Wireframes, Brawl has Alloys. What's SSL gonna get?
  10. Segtendo

    Segtendo Smash Master

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    IDK, stick figures? XD
  11. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    @Unlockables

    Yeah, in the final lots of things will be unlocked. I plan on 10 stages with 6 of them being unlocked. Also there will be 2 unlockable characters. I am also thinking that there will be settings you can unlock like turning off stage movement, and other versus options. Finally, I think once you unlock the 2 secret characters, you also unlock endless mode, which is actually DeeNinja's idea, where you play against the whole cast in different settings 1v1, Free-for-all, 1v3, etc.

    @Select Screen Art
    I've been thinking and I may redraw the select screen based off the n64 art. Not gonna do it now, but when I get a chance, it would probably be a good usage of time.

    @Arcade Mode
    I definitely want to do metal mario as a throwback to n64 and because the design is really easy to do, just make mario and change all the sprites to metal and make him harder to hit and have more weight to him. So yeah, you can expect to see him in arcade mode.

    Hmm... I forgot about the polygons. I guess in Smash Land, it would be the pixels. Gotta figure out some way to make them unique since all the attacks in smash land are one button. Maybe I will just make a new character that takes hitboxes from everyone else. Anyway, these guys aren't confirmed or denied. Might just skip them since I am lazy, might do them haha. We'll see.

    As for the masterhand, I hadn't really thought of it yet, but I will probably make the masterhand since he is a critical part of the smash single player. Doing the sprites will probably be annoying, but I think he will be worth it.



    Anyway, development has been going well. Link and Saffron are complete. So pikachu sprites are getting started this week and then one Inspired stage. Demo in February is looking very good. May even be out sooner!

    -4nace
  12. nuro

    nuro Smash Lord

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    my first impressions of the way u added link:

    what is with the really long fair (hookshot) and really short bair?

    His Up+B is too short and Kirby's recovery game is much better not to mention kirby and mario seem like they have more overall hitbox and get their attacks out in less frames.

    Didn't get hands on with the game but I hope you make link a playable character and not gimped like he has been in all smash bros games.
  13. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    @Nuro

    Yeah, some changes have been made to his hitboxes. But he is definitely playable. The thing that worried me about link is that he would have too many kill moves, but he is feeling pretty balanced right now. The Bair is even faster so it has its uses. I want him to be competitive 1v1 and not broken in free-for-all which will be the fun part of balancing him haha.

    As for what I am doing now-

    Saffron is complete with 3 pokemon coming out the door. Probably gonna release a link trailer soon with actual combat so you can see how his attacks work.

    Pikachu spriting has begun. Idle and Running are complete. But i've decided to bite the bullet and go ahead and program in-game controls now. Its not going to be hard to program, it just takes a while, but i know people want it, so I gotta suck it up. (kirby style)

    Anyway, let me know if there are any features / modes / extras you think Demo 2 needs!

    -4nace
  14. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Possibly make Metal Mario's Residence an unlockable stage? I've ALWAYS wanted it as a legit stage, complete with awesome music. I figured you could add it off-screen on the SSS, but put an arrow letting people know it's there. That way you're not replacing any stages. It's kinda like an extra stage. As for unlocking...
    -Play on each stage with Mario in Vs. Mode.
    That way you HAVE to get all the others first.

    And pixels make me think Missingno. xP
  15. Dark_Ermac

    Dark_Ermac Smash Apprentice

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    The pixels could be atari-style block figures with moves taken from the other fighters.
  16. BigLord

    BigLord Smash Ace

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    @DeeNinjaa

    Holy crap, man, Missingno in SSL?! What are you trying to do, kill me with awesome?

    Also, I watched the video. I liked Link overall, but I'll only be able to really comment on him when you release the next demo...

    ... SO RELEASE IT ALREADY! I kid, I kid...
  17. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Well, Missingno. is in SSF2, so...y'know. It's possible.
  18. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    Missingno eh?

    Anyway, I sucked it up. I didn't get any powers or hats, but its complete and working. Just gotta add autosave to it.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Just added Autosave. Replacing that controls.txt with a SSL-controls.ini. Looks much more professional sitting in the folder.
  19. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    OOOOOOOH~
    I love it. It looks awesome, and should help people a lot with playing easier.
  20. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    Thanks DeeNinja! It took a while to get the sprites ready since i can't use variable text from game maker since it aliases.

    Also opinion time! Hurrayy

    So I've been laboring in my head over pikachu's moveset. I think I am going to keep him with the Neutral Ground and Air being the same, atleast for now, but I am feeling kinda inclined to do his Neutral Air from Brawl.

    Here are my ideas for a moveset so far. I haven't begun spriting attacks so tear them up now so i can finalize it while i sprite.

    *Star means i am pretty set on it*

    Neutral Ground -
    Thundershock (Projectile from all smash games) *
    Forward Ground -
    HeadButt (Charge it up. Pikachu Side B from Melee and Brawl) OR
    Thunder Jolt - Pikachu's Fsmash from brawl. No forward momentum. This works because pikachu is going to be fast and have low friction so he can doing sliding attack.
    Up Ground-
    Up Smash (Pikachu's Upsmash from all smash games. I want this the way it is due to his quick run speed.)*
    Down Ground -
    Thunder (Pikach's Down Special from all smash games. Okay knockback with stream. Good knockback when it hits pika.) *
    Neutral Air
    Thundershock (Like Nground only does not have a trail until it touches ground.)
    Forward Air -
    Neutral Air from Brawl, or Possibly Headbutt (first charged aerial.) or Possibly Forward Air from Brawl with the multihit. Leaning toward forward air from brawl.
    Up Air -
    Quick Attack - The two attack staple of pikachu's recovering. GOnna have very low damage and knockback *
    Down Air-
    Down Air from brawl but with a bigger electric shock if you hit the ground during it. I am thinking this could be the move used to combo thunder other than upground. Like if you hit the ground it makes an impact that knocks others up. If you hit them before you hit the ground, its a low knockback horizontally.

    Also all players are getting a new hurt sprite just for pikachu. For the first few frames of getting hit by an electric attack, you will flash with a shock around you and a skeleton(or something like a skele) showing through.

    Basically, I want pikachu to be the opposite of kirby. I want him to be a ground character. His best attacks are ground attacks, he has the best run speed in the game, the best ground accel in the game. However his air accel is the worst by alot so once he picks up speed, he'll be hard to control if you jump around alot. His recovering is going to be good, but he is light, so he'll die just as early as kirby. He falls about the speed of mario so he doesn't feel too floaty. He doesn't have a spike (as of now) because air just isn't his thing.
    Anyone, help me solidify the moveset!
  21. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    I see no problems with it, but I would change Thunder to NGround/NAir and use Pikachu's DSmash for a DGround. And use headbutt(the move's real name is skull bash) for a FGround.
  22. BigLord

    BigLord Smash Ace

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    I don't like skull bash for FGround. There would be no horizontal killing moves if you used that attack.

    Plus, I like his Fsmash better, lol.
  23. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    @DeeNinja

    That's a good call. I think having thundershock and thunder would be overpowered, so making thunder take up the Neutral slot seems like a really good idea. That way you can do it in the air as well. I think i have a good idea to make the physics of thunder work.

    @BigLord
    Yeah, thats a true statement. His Fsmash is really cool looking too, and without thundershock, it'll make more sense.

    Just gotta hone in on a forward air and a back air now and I think pikachu is ready for spriting.
  24. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    But think about it. No one has a chargable FGround, and Pika is the agile character. It adds to differentiate his style.

    FAir could be Pika flipping into a downward tail swipe that spikes, but not too powerful. Retain his normal BAir(all limbs extended, spins around several times).
  25. BigLord

    BigLord Smash Ace

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    Let's stablish something here: chargeable moves only appeared in Melee. The original SSB didn't have such moves, so it's unlikely that a gameboy version would have attacks like that... unless the game was released a little after SSB.

    In any case, am I the only one who's beginning to think that people are straying away from the project's original objective?...
  26. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    See: Link. His DGround is chargable. If I understand 4nace's motives clearly, this is to be a bridge between Smash and Melee. A chargable move here and there won't hurt anything.
  27. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    @BigLord

    Well Smash Bros n64 did have the Donkey Kong punch, which was a chargeable attack, only you did not need to release it right away. I am basing my chargeable attacks off specials from Melee and Brawl and not from Smash attacks so it is possible that in the bridge, the developers could have thought up so chargeable attacks. Either way though, I am using them to differentiate the characters even further because I want the characters all to be simple, but at the same time feel very different in both movement, style and attacks.

    As for straying away from the objective, I could see what you mean, with the questions of characters, stages, options, etc. I do want to keep the game as simple and stripped down as possible for two reasons. One is to hold true to the gameboy limitations and the other is to get the game completed before I graduate from college in June. (I want to get a job / develop a game for some moneyssss then) In the end, I will pick and choose whatever is possible / feels right but I do greatly value opinions here because lots of times, there are people who are bigger fans of the games that the characters come from, and simply multiple brains working together to think up movesets can get a solid moveset done faster.

    @DeeNinja

    Yeah, The Bair and Fground that you suggested are the two i think i am going to go with. The Fground won't increase that much in knockback, but the distance pikachu shoots will increase if you charge it. I think for the back air i will slow it down to 2 spins with 2 hitboxes rather than a full multihit and then keep his forward air from N64/Melee/BRawl which has that multihit. Which brings me to the down air, which I have two ideas for. Either the slam his head on the ground (which looks alot like a rotated forward air) Or an iron tail attack where he pulls his tail up and smacks down which spikes you in a direction behind pikachu (think sexy reverse aerial rush to spike off the stage haha)

    Once I work out which Down Air I would like to do, I think the moveset is set in my head. I have already began spriting the obvious attacks and will be getting to the others later in the week.

    @Everyone

    So I just got back from MAGFest and i brought a demo with me and lots of people tried the game out. It was pretty awesome and I got some good feedback. Here is the post with a video-
    http://www.danfornace.com/2011/01/smash-land-magfest/

    In the video, a smasher (who beat me in a brawl tourney haha) is suggesting a character from Golden Sun for the 6th, which came out for the GBA, so it would not be that likely. However, I would like to open some discussion on suggestions for the 6th character. If you would like to suggest a character, answer these 6 points:

    1. Name: Who is it.
    2. Games: What games.
    3. Third Party : Yes or No
    4. Date-Accurate: Yes or No to created before 2001 (GBA release)
    5. Why: Why is should be a character.
    6. Fighting Style: How it would be different from other characters in Smash Land.

    You can suggest any character you like and as many as you like as long as you answer all 6 questions. DeeNinja and I have talked about characters alot, and I have some ideas, but I am looking for some off-the-wall, I never would have thought of that, kind of characters from any videogames at all really. Of course the final needs to make sense for Smash Land... or does it?

    When you suggest a character DeeNinja, myself, or other members who have kept up to date such as BigLord may refute the suggestion. This is your chance to defend your suggestion with more ideas. In the final game i will be doing a credit section for ideas and testing and I take note of all input.

    -4nace
  28. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Spiffy new title screen, 4nace. *looks towards left-most laptop*

    So yeah, as for the character I want THE MOST...
    Name: Roll
    Games: Megaman series, Vs. Capcom series
    Third Party: Yes
    Date-Accurate: Yes
    Why: She's already been in fighting games before, and her small stature can really help differentiate her.
    Fighting Style: Roll's fighting style would focus on many unique attacks that have very little startup lag, but much ending lag. She'll be using her handy broom and bucket.

    As a bonus, a moveset!

    NGround: Attempts to smash her bucket onto her opponent's head. If it hits, she takes out her broom and whacks them. This is a throw.
    FGround: Roll charges forward, mopping up the ground in front of her as she does so.
    DGround: Roll kneels, and after a second, a pellet comes down directly above her. If it makes contact with Roll, she is healed by 15%. If it hits anyone else, they take damage.
    UGround: Roll swings her broom upwards.
    NAir: All aerial momentum halts. Roll attempts to smash her bucket onto her opponent's head. If it hits, she takes out her broom and whacks them down, spiking them. If it misses, she puts her bucket away and freefalls. This is a *gasp* MIDAIR throw?!
    FAir: Roll swings her broom horizontally in front of her.
    BAir: Roll delivers a VERY quick, but dainty kick backwards.
    DAir: Roll dumps water from her bucket right below her.
    UAir: All momentum is cancelled as Roll activates the jets in her broom, and flies upwards; no horizontal movement, no hitbox.
  29. GeminiCrossFade

    GeminiCrossFade Smash Ace

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    1. Name: Black or White Mage
    2. Games: Final Fantasy
    3. Third Party : Yes
    4. Date-Accurate: No
    5. Why: I feel black mage would bring a very intresting spin on how the characters would be used and its really is an off the wall character
    6. He would have to use a series of long range attacks or attacks that would draw close to the character to win. Its more about tactics then anything else



    1. Name: Pacman
    2. Games: Pacman
    3. Third Party : Yes
    4. Date-Accurate: Yes
    5. Why: Pacman is a character that truley deserves to be on a smash bros game if on none at all. He is pretty much the icon of video gaming itself and its time the greatest game character (in my opinion) got a chance to fight
    6. Fighting Style: Chomping and bouncing are pretty much the only things pacman can do so using pac-man would not only be challenging but really fun
  30. BigLord

    BigLord Smash Ace

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    I'll try to stick with characters that have appeared in Gameboy games.

    1. Name: Bomberman;
    2. Games: Bomberman series, plus Wario Blast: Featuring Bomberman;
    3. Third Party : Yes;
    4. Date-Accurate: Yes;
    5. Why: Hudson has been buddies with Nintendo for a while now. Plus he's pretty damn cool on his own. Also, I never played Wario Blast, but I hear it was a good game?
    6. Fighting Style: You may get the idea "But Link already uses bombs!". Don't think that, remember the size of bomberman's bombs? They're human sized. Of course, every single bomb Bomberman used in Smash would have short range, but deal heavy damage. Maybe he could kick them around as well. Think Snake-tactics.

    I could try debunking the other characters that you guys suggested first, but I'm simply not willing to do that right now, heh. But I was left scratching my head at the idea of a pacman moveset.
  31. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    I am only going to say this once. No.
    Stop living in the past, Pac-Man is very inferior to icons like Samus, Sonic, Master Chief, and the like. He may have been a huge hit waaay back when, but he's not anymore. Plus, he's a simple little circle with a bite taken out of him. He couldn't do anything even if he wanted to.
  32. 4nace

    4nace Smash Journeyman

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    Haha, I'm still not convinced Pacman is a terrible idea. I mean, he is one of gaming's oldest mascots and he was gracing many systems back in the day of the gameboy. The trick would be coming up with enough attacks.

    Another aspect that I forgot to mention is how well the character reads at such a small size, that makes characters like Master Chief and Snake hard to tell who they are since they have since intricate details.

    So to tackle that, I will be spriting your suggestions and posting them when i get a chance.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, pretty good suggestions so far. Keep em coming.

    -4nace
  33. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Roll looks...awkward. But with a 16x16 limitation, that's to be expected. Exactly what did you use as a reference for her?

    Name: Sonic
    Games: Sonic series, M&S series, SEGA All-Stars series, SSBB, Billy Hatcher
    Third Party: Yes
    Date-accurate: Yes?
    Why: His speed alone is reason enough
    Fighting style: Unlike brawl, Sonic's moves should be lightning fast weak attacks while making excellent use of his agility to speed around the arena with his trademark spindash.

    Also, I just got an idea! After finishing SSL, we could make an expansion pack for it featuring suggested characters from the community. SSL: CE - Super Smash Land: Community Edition!
    The only drawback is, characters who didn't make it into the 'final' game can't be used to submit scores onto the Endless Mode's leaderboard.
  34. Segtendo

    Segtendo Smash Master

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    Who's the character in the Deeninja section? Quote from Cave Story?
  35. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Did you try reading up at the very first suggestion? It's Roll, from Megaman.
  36. BigLord

    BigLord Smash Ace

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    I think he was criticizing exactly what you were saying about your own character, hehe. Oh, and for one, I like the idea of pacman (as he was sprited, at least).


    Also, hurray for my bomberman! He looks cute ^_^
  37. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

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    Even if you like the idea, how does one bring Pac-Man into fruition in a fighting game?(inb4mugen)
  38. Kpoforever94

    Kpoforever94 Smash Rookie

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    Agreed. I can't even imagine a moveset.

    DeeNinjaa, I think it's weird you picked Roll instead of Megaman itself. It would be a great ranged character (adding some delay to the shooting, or lowering damage). As for melee moves, give him an Sword-Arm, like in later gba versions of megaman

    But my vote is completely for Sonic! It would be a great character, and unique also, because of his charged ball form attacks.
    Another cool character would be the well-known big-slow-strong character: DK

    Bomberman was a good choice, but it somehow doesn't convince me.

    Well, back to waiting for demo 2
  39. DeeNinjaa

    DeeNinjaa Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    135
    I picked Roll because she's been in fighting games before. The normal MegaMan hasn't, as far as I know.
  40. GeminiCrossFade

    GeminiCrossFade Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    811
    You did it? Awsome! Also to whoever said no to pacman
    http://ssba.motionforum.net/t6-update-1-oct-22010
    I know it might not be gameboy but this guy seems to have made a decent moveset for pacman. So its not that impossible to make one for him.

    1. Name: Glover
    2. Games: Glover 64
    3. Third Party : No
    4. Date-Accurate: Yes
    5. Why: This is a character that defiantly has been unappreciated. Though he may seem like hes not a good character I think glover would make an excelent addition to this game. (Dont say its impossible to make a moveset for him because I was able to come up with a moveset for brawl purposes)
    6. Fighting Style: Though he may have somewhat of a similar playstyle to masterhand when using regular attacks. Glover ability to change his ball into various forms really puts a spin on how you would attack your opponents. This grant him also the ability to switch between a Heavy set, middle, and light type of fighter. The way you play as glover would be your choice and yours alone.

    1. Name: Toad
    2. Games: Mario Series
    3. Third Party : No
    4. Date-Accurate: Yes
    5. Why: Toad is also another unappreciated character that should have been added to the smash bros roster.
    6. Fighting Style: You would be able to use much of the mushrooms to your advantage. Poison and Big would be one of toad's moves. He would be able to throw random mushrooms and there would be a small chance that it could be one of those two mushrooms.

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