[Super Smash Land] - Final Build 1.1 Online

[4nace]

@Jakub

Yep, impressive.

Add in the fact that the sprites are too large and some would have to have been 4 sprites on top of each other, and the fact that the audio is able to play multiple noise channels at the same time and you pretty much hit all the inconsistencies.

But overall, the game is fairly close to gameboy standards and all our assets could be reprogrammed on a gameboy theoretically (with the exception of me using all four colors - each sprite would have to lose a color).


As for the character and pixel inconsistency, this comes from the fact that the characters snap to a grid that is 1 pixel (while the game graphics all line up to a 4x4 grid) which allows for smoother movement. Therefore they can be moving and not line up with the 4x4 grid.

@DeeNinja

Haha there were odder requests, like reprogramming it for the original gameboy. As for online, the plan is still for your endless idea to send scores to a website, as for actual online fighting, i doubt it, but if the game is well-loved enough, I may look into it.

I will only do it if I can keep it as smooth as local multiplayer.


Also, I thought you guys might enjoy seeing my super cool work station at my parent's home!
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/113/img0717a.jpg

See ya tomorrow when the demo hits (again).

-4nace

 

[Luxor]

Sweeeeeeet

 

[Smash0holic]

The New Demo comes today!Can't wait!

 

[4nace]

Demo 1 - Re-Release.

http://blog.pikimal.com/geek/2010/12/17/super-smash-land-demo-released/#more-3718

 

[Luxor]

Oooh! Might want to update the OP to reflect this new development. I'm anxious to try!

EDIT: Impressions:

• Love the new stage.
• Minor hitbox tweaks and workings make everything work much better- I like Kirby's Hammer hitting up now for one of its hits (did it before? I think that's new). Kirby's Final Cutter is much improved as well.
• Kirby's AI isn't ******** anymore. The AI is vastly improved overall, and the Level 3's gave me a run for their money. Well done!
• You can crouch, I didn't check if you could crouch cancel yet lawl.
• I forgot to see if you could fastfall too... but that could actually be a big deal. I could SHFFL for real =D
• Fullscreen mode is much appreciated.
• Kirby's Bair remains the best move in the game IMO- wall of pain all dai. Kirby's Utilt is a poor combo starter due to it's terrible horizontal range, but it's an amazing combo continuer. Fsmash --> Utilt is great, Bair --> Utilt works, Utilt --> Bair works, and of course Utilt-->Utilt. Mario's Fireball I would call the second best move in the game. Mario and Kirby definitely have pretty different playstyles at this point, which I think is great. They're pretty balanced and yet varied.
• Overall, a great release. Keep it up!

 

[BigLord]

Just stopped by to say:

This is the most awesome fan-project that has ever graced these boards. Better than Brawl+. Better than Balanced Brawl. Better than Project M. Better than Brawl-!

Not dissing those projects. I'm just saying this is really, really awesome. I just played the new demo (which is completely new to me) and it just blew me away. I can't wait to try it out against a human opponent!

All this to say, fellow smash enthusiast: thank you. Thank you for creating this.

Also, one more thing: don't be dissing on items, yo. Imagine 4 player brawls (errr, smashes?) with items on a single gameboy. Oh wow.

If you can include items (and make them work good too, eh), then by all means, go right ahead!... pretty please?

 

[Luxor]

Characters > Stages > Items IMO.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Luxor speaks the truth.

 

[KoreanDJ111]

This is a pretty fun game. Trying to mess around and see how the game mechanics work.

Interesting how both characters fall at the speed of falco fast falling downairing (referring to Melee).
The hammer is a very interesting combo starter. Good to know there is not much landing lag from the attacks after the first couple frames of the air attacks. Really adds another dynamic to the game.

Items are great and all, but honestly it would be very difficult to input them in. Certain items have certain properties. One could just throw it (green shell) or shoot (laser) but once you run out of the shell, you need to create the throw button to throw the item away. I think items would add a lot more work for you, and that creating this nice pattern of creating a stage and new characters would be more efficient.

I haven't read the whole thread, but ledge grabbing should be programmed in. Maybe during the more advanced stage of the project, along with camera movements as well, but it may not look good if you are using strictly GB interfaces.

Throw and Shield button. Adding a new mechanic in, but I believe it's worth it. Adding shield stun would be annoying and the throw properties as well, but I think it'll be far more rewarding than working on something like items.

Advanced tactics like L-cancelling and crouch cancelling would make this game 100X better, albeit incredibly difficult to create. Wavedashing sounds too difficult to make, since you have to create trajectory and air dodging.

I say the hitstun should increase by a little when in the air. Create jabs for the characters, neutral and/or up airs too.

I like the spikes you inputted in. Nice touch.

And by the way, taunts.

These are my two cents.

 

[Luxor]

Crouch cancelling is still >> shielding for this project in my eyes. No new buttons needed and it would work fine. I'm also against tech skill for the game since P:M has that market cornered.

I'm iffy about if I want ledges introduced. I kind of like the game as it is, wild and free, but properly implemented ledges would be OK. They wouldn't be super important since the stages are so wide relative to the blastzones, but w/e. I find that both character's current recoveries are more than sufficient to get back onstage safely and efficiently.

Up airs already exist lol.

And I'm actually against more aerial hitstun. Kirby's Bair WoP would be waaaaay too good then, whereas now it is acceptably too good. <3 Kirby

 

[KoreanDJ111]

Up airs are more like up B. Bairs and Fairs exist(ish).

You have a point about tech skill. Still an interesting thing to incorporate though.

I say go the SSB64 way, make everyone equally as broken. Kinda interesting how fast the characters fall though.

If you take out shielding, at least have grabs. Forward or backward throws will do, but up throws would be amazing (combo starters).

Btw, I vouche DK to be in this game, and have his UP attack button be the same properties as Melee UP B: the beginning frame of the punch is incredibly powerful.

 

[4nace]

Hey guys, I had some friends over last night so I didn't get too much time to check on demo impressions and whatnot, but I am here to go over some of your thoughts. I greatly appreciate the time that you guys took to not only give the demo a try but come here with ideas, it is greatly appreciated.

@Luxor
Thanks alot for all the kind words on this release. I agree that Kirby's Bair hitbox is still a bit too big, I think i missed on the nerf, but I am not going to change it much as it works pretty well for what I wanted it to be. Problems might come up on other characters with limited aerial options as it is both fast and has really good range for now. Combine that with Kirby's many jumps and the move can be broken really easily.

As for the playstyles being different, I definitely agree with you there, mastering fireball is essential to playing mario well, which will make it interesting when link's duck (shield to stop projectiles) is introduced. I have a feeling I will keep mario the way he is and nerf other characters down to him, while at the same time keeping all moves for a character viable.

@BigLord
Hey thanks alot for the very high praise. I really was blushing as I read it!
As for items, I am not 100% sold that they will make the game better yet. So far, Luxor and I see pretty eye-to-eye on this project and I consider getting the new characters done to be the first and foremost priority. Actually getting all 6 characters done would probably come before items. However, if I did add items, you can expect that they would each be very different and there would only be about 6-8 which would compliment the style of everything getting simplified.

@KoreanDJ111
If you're the Korean DJ from the wonderful melee days then I am very excited that you found my game and gave it a whirl, and I am very honored that you took the time to post your thoughts here. I would love for you to stick around during development if you have time because I greatly value the thoughts of the top players!

Yeah the fastfalling is still new and being tweaked so I will probably work something out to change that up a bit, but at the same time, it doesn't bug me too much so I will see where I go with it.

Thanks for sharing about the items. I won't do them at all if I can't do them well and they will defintely be one of the last things added (perhaps even added as unlockables)

Characters are at the foremost with Link about 25% of the way sprited. (working on some more attacks tomorrow) Might be showing progress here too or might just wait for a video teaser =P

As for ledge cancel, I am still kinda iffy about it, i understand what it adds to the game, but I've never really enjoyed the edge game from the smash series. Melee always seemed like the edge was too risky and only 1 of every 5 or 6 chances were able to sweetspot it. Brawl on the other hand, the edge is too safe, and i feel takes away from the competitiveness of the game. I could surely program something where you can either get up, jump up or attack up, and i would put the time into it to make it work well, but at this current time, I don't have it too high on the priority list simple because I like the flow of matches now. But it is something I have thought about (and even began to sprite Mario for)

Throw and Shield button are kinda not possible unless I switch the game over to only up to jump. If you asked me 3 years ago if only up to jump was a good idea in a pc smash game then I would have been like, "oh yeah, its better imo." but after playing brawl semi-competitively, I can't stand up to jump. I don't think its as intuitive or reliable and messes up my aerial game. Therefore A to jump and B to attack made the most sense. I don't mind that the game isn't reliant on shield pressure or shield grabs as it makes it more about spacing and starting and ending lag on attacks.

Jabs is something I thought about but have no idea how it would be possible, all the characters have a neutral attack that is both air and ground. With mario, i do enjoy the neutral more because it feels like a jab with its quick start-up time, but with Kirby I feel like he is lacking that quick attack, which is why i tried to speed up his up-ground.

As for L-cancelling and other advanced tactics, I definitely want to add things into the game so you can play and be flashy, but i want to keep it with the two button - scheme.
Some things that are in there now that you can test around are:

Crouch-Cancelling: Reduce your angle and knockback time if crouching when hit.
Reversable Attacks: All ground attacks, the NAIR and the UAIR are reversable in the first frame of the attack, that means you can do a turn-around up smash without having to claw the controller =P
SH Attacks: Some attacks if timed correctly can be shorthopped with no ending lag such as both Mario and Kirby's Backairs.


As for taunts, ive thought about it. I was thinking select might be a nice taunt button, but right now all characters share the select button. Taunts will probably be like items and done after characters and stages are complete as more of a polish thing.


@Luxor,
Your last post is super spot-on. Get out of my head! But seriously, you have very good insights in the game and seem to understand the development process very well too. I hope you stick around for sure. Especially since the next demo should have QA credits (if im not feeling lazy haha)


Thanks everyone for checking it out, and feel free to drop a comment over at kotaku on the people who are "i would have tried it if it wasn't game maker......."

Thanks!
-Dan

 

[BigLord]

Lmao at that last paragraph, too true. Some people are just bigots.

And just to clarify: I only mentioned items because I think items are one of the things that makes Smash a different kind of game from every other fighting game ever. Still, they're not as necessary as, say, a finely tuned engine. So I agree with your proposition of doing items last, if doing them at all...

Also, keep rocking those stages! We probably only need 4 stages though. Probably even less.

 

[Ultimortal]

Just registered to say that me and my friends really enjoyed this! Personally as a big Smash fan I love it! Not that I'm good, but the mechanics of the series really appeals to me.

Smash Land may be relatively simple, but in a good way - it works great without shields or dodging, so you have to get the spacing and approaches right. Mario can set up some neat things with fireballs and Fairs. It's the best Smash-like fangame I've played due to its smooth, well-made mechanics. Love the attention to detail throughout, and the pace is good. Didn't take long to doing repeated Bairs with Kirby, and not much longer for the others to find ways around it.


Some thoughts:

Some of Mario's animations are a little stiff - the ground up A is well animated, but since it's slow and his hand seems to move the same distance through every frame, it lacks a convincing "punch" to it. Same with his ground down A. On the other hand the Fair is very heavy and satisfying.

The character selection screen was never good in the Smash games IMO. Every new player I've seen gets confused by it, including when I played Smash Land with some people who'd only played the 64 version many years ago. It's just an idea, but I suggest either:
1. Do away with the marker, and instead just click on a portrait with either button to select your character. Clicking on another portrait selects that character instead. You cannot deselect characters.
2. Or since the above won't work for computer players, have two little arrows above your character box to change between the available characters. There will only be a few of them in this game, after all.

We sometimes fell off the stage in embarrasing ways, and laughed at improbable or double KOs, just like in the "real" games. Awesome.

I agree with waiting with implementing items. They don't feel necessary at this point.

 

[BigLord]

Changing the character selection screen? I dunno... it seems so classic to me right now. It's like if they made a smash game that lacked a Mario character :s

 

[4nace]

@Ultimortal

(Also are you Iji - Ultimortal? If so you are awesome, and I think i love you, if not then nice username)

Thanks for trying the game! And i'm glad you played it with friends, its much more enjoyable that way. I also find that it is a bit easier to get into than melee and brawl as my friends who never liked smash can already beat me >.<.

As for the animations, I agree with you 100%. I've been having this problem for a bit. It has to do with the way I am animating, the impact or the fast part of the attacks don't show enough. I've been getting better (mario was my first) but even as I work on Link, I have to watch myself and make sure I am putting emphasis on the right frames. I will probably go back and fix mario eventually, but since he is functioning, those will probably have to wait.

As for the Menu change, i hadn't realised people get confused by the smash menus haha. But now that you mention it, I could see why. I'm a bit confused though how your way would work with CPUs. I think the reason smash has evolved this way is so players can quickly pick their characters and change cpu characters with the same interface. I would like to make my game more simple and obvious in every way possible, so if you could help me figure out a way to simplify the menu more than I would definitely be willing to try it out.

And thanks for the comparisons to the real series, ive been trying hard to get the feel of smash while also stripping so much away. One problem ive been noticing recently is double hitstun feels odd (like in a multiplayer game and you hit two people with a strong attack and it lags for a longer time). I might play around with Brawl and see how they do that.

Thanks again for playing. I hope to see you back!

-------


Another thing I am running into is that Link is so freaking complicated. He is looking like he will have 2 - 3x the number of frames of sprites as mario and kirby due to his bomb needing to be held and thrown in all 4 directions on the ground and the air.

So with Link, I have got most of his moveset worked out, but can't seem to figure out what to do for his Back Air.

For his Up Air, its toon link's spin (which means it does not suck recovery wise, but is not a kill move, more of a multi-hit like Mario's Tornado)
His Neutral Air is Boomerang.
His Forward Air is his current Neutral Air in Brawl with even lower knockback but the hitbox is there pretty much the whole time (Sex kick yo)
For his Down Air there was never doubt that he'd have his patented downward thrust.

So my options are Link's multi-kick back air. Toon link's Backair which I would make kill up. Or a new backair with some kind of cool mechanism. I was thinking a Backair that shoots out his chain might be nice (Kind of like Toon Link's Zair, but a turn around version) Of course, I dont think I would give it any kind of grapple abilities though... welll probably not haha

Any ideas smashboarders?

 

[BigLord]

Simple: don't use Link's bombs. It's basically going after items, and as you said, there is more urgent stuff to do before that.

 

[4nace]

Hah, if you told me that 2 days ago then I would have contemplated it. But I just finished all the bomb animations other than the explosion last night. I plan to make them like Link's bombs in brawl where they explode whenever they hit anything so i dont have to worry about other players picking them up. So its really just link who has the item, not quite a full-fledged item being programmed.


As for the back air in my earlier post, I still haven't decided what to do.

-4nace

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Simple. Have him hit with his shield.

F-Air's idea is terrible, give him an Ike-ish F-Air.

N-Air idea is terrible. Switch to his normal N-Air.

Save Link's equipment for his ground attacks.

 

[4nace]

Hmmm.... I like the idea for the backair. I imagine something like Pitts Back Air but with a shield. Sounds neat. Gonna go ahead and plan for that. Good call.

As for the Nair, Fair debate.

Really? Change Nair from Boomerang? That would make link have 1 more move than the other characters and make him the only one with a different Nair and Neutral Ground. Not sure how I feel about that haha. I mean, I could see only being able to use boomerang on the ground, but that would make him feel different from the other characters, which isn't necesarily bad, but thats even more animations! haha.

Also Ike's Forward Air? I feel like that might be too good... What about Link's Zair as his forward air? That way i could get another piece of equipment in.

So i guess the question im looking for is.

SHould Nair really be different from Nground?
What should Fair be if Nair is boomerang?
What should Fair and Nair be if Nair is not boomerang?


Thanks for the feedback so far =).

 

[BigLord]

I think the best Fair you could have is... Link's actual Nair. I know it sounds confusing, but if you think about it it makes sense.

Of course, it might not be very balanced, but think about it at least.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

1. Yes. It adds more variety.
2. Anyyhing but his normal F-air. How about Link's normal Bair, but forwards? Or use his shield again.
3. Nair: Regular
Fair: See 2.

Honestly, only Kirby should keep Nground and Nair the same; he's already god tier. One less move will do him justice. Change Mario's Nair to Mario Tornado(make the kb trajectory more horizontal than vertical), and his Dair to his downward twisty kick, dealing multiple blows, ending with a sort of gimp-ish knockback.

 

[Ultimortal]

@Ultimortal
Also are you Iji - Ultimortal?

Yes, I made Iji etc. I've played stuff from some of the best game maker users, so I dislike when people dismiss GM games. I know how much work goes into a seemingly simple game like this.

Multiplayer: seriously, everyone who tries this game should do it with at least one other human, and controllers if available. Playing alone doesn't do it justice. We used Xbox360 controllers after some tweaking in Joy2key to make the Dpad mimic the analogue stick, and it worked great.

Menus: here's what happened when we played for the first time. My friend selected his character, then wanted to include a computer player. I clicked the human/computer box and he tried choosing a character, but accidentally retrieved his own marker instead. He wondered why he couldn't pick up the computer player's marker. Then we got a bit confused as to which button was "confirm" and which was "back"... this usually happens with other Smash games in my experience.

I'd make some mockups of character screens, but I won't get back to my computer in a week or so.

Double hitstun: I noticed something odd a few times, when Kirby's rock and Mario's uptilt hit another player at the same time, it looked like they kept getting hit by both attacks rapidly until they flew away. But I don't know if what happened was supposed to happen.

Button mashing: neutral A in Smash is usually a quick jab or punish in the air, when new players are mashing A after getting hit. This works fairly well with Mario's fireball here, but Kirby's vacuum isn't the best mashing attack... maybe exchange his neutral air and forward air?

Link: having his back air be a short-range hookshot would be cool, though with longer landing lag so he can't wall of pain as well as Mario and Kirby. Sounds like he'll have lots of projectiles already. I hope his bombs won't be too powerful.

Kirby: his short lag after up air makes it very spammable IMO. The startup and the move itself are fine though. I like how the shockwave goes diagonally on slopes! I haven't checked if you can cancel the landing lag by sliding off a platform just after hitting the ground though, that would be absurd.

Random idea: have a quick, slight screen shaking when hitting another player while their % is above 100 or 150 or so, and your attack deals over a certain knockback amount. But maybe this is already in and I missed it.

 

[nuro]

Is it possible to play this game online somehow?

I feel like it would be easy to run since it is such a simple game.

Maybe there is some emulator like hamachi or remote desktop or something?

_ _ _

the wind on dreamland is too effective.. i always wished that there was a button on the stage select screen to make the special stage effects on or off. So u can turn off the wind or make the bottom platform on Mushroom Kingdom stationary.

I would like it if the stage select screen appeared before the character select screen so can pick the character u like for the particular stage.


_ _ _

How about open sourcing the game and making a project out of it? I wonder what interesting things people would make for the game.

 

[4nace]

@BigLord

Yeah, that is what i had originally planned, but I decided to go with a Zair for his forward air and it seems like it will work well.

@DeeNinja

I understand what you are saying about variety and changing up the attacks, but i kinda like Mario's fireballs the way they are. Right now I am going to make boomerang a fast attack with low knockback and assign it the same way as Mario's Fireballs, but I am not opposed to giving link his neutral air from Brawl if need be.

@Ultimortal

Awesome man! I love all your projects. They are truly inspiring to someone hoping to get into game design as a career!

I definitely agree with you about multiplayer as that is the most fun I have while testing it out =).

As for the menus, I think I understand where the confusion would be, but I am still a bit confused on how you would remedy it. I want it to feel like a smash brothers menu so people familiar can hop right in, but at the same time, I want it to be simpler. Maybe making it so if players that are turned off hit any button then they turn on would help?

Double hitstun: Yeah I had been noticing that too, I just fixed it by not allowing a strong attack (with more hitstun) to stun again if they hit another player (which im pretty sure is what brawl does).

Yeah the quick neutral air point i agree with, although I do enjoy using kirby's suck in the air especially reversing it. I am going to make link's boomerang a quick projectile as well so it matches the fireball, and then if I don't like that, i will change link to having his patented sex kick in the air.

As for the back air, link is getting a short-ranged shield attack. Its fast, but its more of a get-out of my space than a wall of pain. His forward air is his hookshot, which I am attempting to program like zero-suit samus's side B, where it has a hitbox and a sweet spot at the end. I will probably not make it auto-cancel so when you hit the ground the attack continues from the ground (which means you will always get the long ending lag).

I'll check out the ending lag on kirby's up air. I know for a fact that you can slide off platforms if you time it correctly (advanced technique) So maybe a bit more lag at the end will balance that out.

As for the random idea - that is actually already in place! It works almost exactly how you describe as well, but the only criteria is the total speed you are getting sent back at.


@nuro
Hmmm as for a workaround to play online like remote desktop or something, that may work actually. I have not done any online programming in game maker and I am pretty sure my engine is not set up for it, so right now, there is no plan for online. But once the game is complete, I will be looking for someone to port it to a .gb rom file, and possibly look for someone to integrate online play.

As for the wind, yeah its a bit strong, but i kinda like it that way, seems more involved. As for the button to turn off stage effects, that is a really good idea and I will definitely add that (although you will probably have to unlock it)

As for the stage and character select screen being flipped, i think i will keep it this way since all smash games have done this, but i will have random buttons for characters and stages in the next demo to add some variety.

Open Source: Ehhh... I may do some open source stuff with the engine later, but right not it is far too messy to be useable by anyone other than me haha. I want to get my 6 character, 10 stage game complete and balanced and then i may look into user expansion.


@Everyone

So the link sprites are complete. He took forever. He has over 3 times the number of sprites as mario and kirby. Most of his attacks are going to need some form of special code (other than just attack, starting and ending lag stuff). He is definitely the most complicated character so far so I will try extra hard to make sure he is not unbalanced. I am going to program him first and get some testing with him, and then I will move onto spriting pikachu.

I would show you the sprites, but I think I will save it for a teaser video with Link and a new stage!

Also if you would like to hear what some game writers think of the project so far, I added a blog post about coverage!
http://www.danfornace.com/2010/12/smash-land-demo-1-coverage/

Hope everyone is having a nice holiday season!
-4nace

 

[nuro]

nice to hear

keep up the great work

 

[Smash0holic]

Can't wait!

 

[GeminiCrossFade]

Ive never played a game as truley addicting then this... When I first got this game I couldn't let it go.

 

[4nace]

Glad you found the gameplay addicting, because in the final release I hope to have features around that make it a long-lasting game for both single player and multiplayer fans! Check back for future releases.


As for updates. Link coding is going well. Slow but well. I have the Nuetral Ground Neutral Air both as boomerang right now and while it works pretty well, it is a bit redundant since Link has bombs, so there is a chance I will be changing that up. I may scrap boomerang altogether, but I do like the way it works with regrabbing it being important.

Also some things with Link now that I have been testing him. I gave him Link's Up+B on the ground from Brawl (where you can charge it) and it seems a bit unfair that link has a charge attack and no one else does. Gonna keep it, but with how good it feels to get off, I may be adding charging to all characters up and down ground attacks (which may be worth it, not sure yet).

Link's Fair feels great! It is basically my own version of ZSS' forward special with a hit box and a sweet spot, but it works well in my mind and I think you guys will enjoy it. All of link's other attacks feel pretty solid too. I am adding hitboxes now, and then balancing starts. Expect a link teaser video in about 2 weeks. =)

 

[DeeNinjaa]

ASDFGHJKL;KSJD LINK IS ALL WRONG.

He sounds absolutely terrible right now. Sorry, but I'll probably avoid him at all costs. Yeah, and Brawl's CSPs is a no-no. In this game's timeline, Brawl hasn't happened yet.

 

[4nace]

@DeeNinjaa

Haha, have no fear. If he doesn't feel like Link to me, I am willing to change stuff. Since I do all the graphics and programming, there really is no wait time or restrictions on what I can get animated and put in the game. I know you are a fan of the sex kick neutral air and right now that is seeming like a pretty good idea.

Another thought I have been having is making neutral air and neutral ground pull out a bomb and then giving link a down attack, like down tilt or something cool that can spike people off stage trying to recover.

Would you like that better than a boomerang taking up both neutral air and neutral ground and bomb taking up down ground? Bomb does work pretty nicely now. I should try to get a video of stuff up soon to show you.

As for the Brawl CSPs, i know what you mean. Link is actually the melee CSP because I liked it better. Technically the game would be after 64 but before melee so lots of my stuff would not be in there (kirby hammer, even the logo is from melee) but I wanted a Character screen that was recognizable so i went with brawl. Mario is the only one who i might redo. He just looks weird...

-4nace

 

[DeeNinjaa]

I can't pick anything 'till I see him in action. >.>

As for CSPs, use the last frame of the poses from the SSB64's CSS.

 

[TommoPuppy]

ASDFGHJKL;KSJD LINK IS ALL WRONG.

He sounds absolutely terrible right now. Sorry, but I'll probably avoid him at all costs. Yeah, and Brawl's CSPs is a no-no. In this game's timeline, Brawl hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, maybe CSPs based on the N64 art would be better.

 

[4nace]

@DeeNinja.

Agreed. Might do a secret video and PM it to a couple of you guys. Testing with friends now, the consensus is that Link is fun, but could use some changes.

Anyway, I guess my question is, would you rather1 or 2 projectiles? Not sure if you can answer without seeing anything hah.


As for the CSPs, yeah but I think that most of the characters work decently except for Mario's select which looks very brawl-like. Look at N64 box art is a good idea though.

-Dan

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Can we get a quick .gif to see what Link looks like?

 

[4nace]

Yeah, surely. I have decided that i am going to program a version with no boomerang, so I have to make a new down-ground attack. Once I finish Saffron, i should be able to get out a link teaser video, and then continue onto pikachu.

 

[Ultimortal]

Some small things: how come, during long periods of hitstun, the hit character will bounce off the floor up to the same vertical position as when he was hit? It gets weirder at high percentages, but it's not really a problem. It's fun for outrageous semi-combos.

Mario's Dair is highly spammable, having little ending lag and fairly good hitboxes. Dunno if anything in the game needs rebalancing though, and better wait until all characters are complete anyway.

How high does the percentage go? We passed 1020 by fireballing Mario. The resulting hitstun and DI was crazy, with Mario being able to float and bounce around the whole level for several seconds after being hit with every fireball.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

I'm sorry, but is that Link's Melee F-Smash? I'd figure it should be his 64 one, for consistency's sake.

As for a new D-Ground, how about a sword spin (one rotation) while crouching?

 

[BigLord]

I like that Link.gif, but yeah I have to agree with DeeNinjaa. Shouldn't it be a different move, rather than his melee f-smash?

 

[4nace]

@BigLord and DeeNinja

Well its his f-ground attack, which is similar to Mario's slide or Kirby's kick, so it has a pretty good amount of momentum forward and that second attack is optional, like the melee and brawl games. I know its a bit odd taking attacks from later games, but I am trying to make Link as interesting as possible and that means making his moves as different as I can from the other two characters.

I also changed up his moveset, I guess I will post a final Moveset here (by final, I mean the moveset that I will post in the teaser video, still up to change)


Nground : Pull out a bomb (Any direction to throw said bomb)
Fground: Link's Fsmash from Melee and Brawl but with more forward momentum.
Uground: A quick up-word poke similar to Marth's usmash but with no kill potential. More of a get away from me attack.
Dground: A chargeable attack similar to Link's Up special on the ground in Brawl.
Nair: Pull out a bomb in the air. (Good for trying to recover back to stage from above and being guarded)
Uair: Link's Up Special from Melee and Brawl (Diagonal) Has a multi-hit similar to Mario Tornado.
Dair: Link's Downward Sword Thrust from All Games
BAir: A quick hit with the shield backward. Not from any of his games.
FAir: A chain attack with a good amount of ending lag. The sweet spot on the chain is one of Link's kill moves.

So link is pretty good, but most his moves other than the hard to hit Fair all kill above 100, even into 120. Moves that kill in the 120+ area are Bombs, Dair, Dground(Charged) and of course Forward Air sweet spot.

@Ultimortal
About the hitstun getting crazy, i dont think ive ever had the damage up high enough to test that! I guess its because they gain speed from gravity and are told to bounce. I actually decreased the time in hitstun for everyone by a little bit, while keeping the speeds the same.

As for Mario's Dair, yeah my one friend spams that all the time, so i have looked at it for balance a little bit recently. I made the hitbox come out a bit later and it disappears right before it exapnds in the final hit. It is still overpowered though, so I might decrease the size of the box. I do like how quickly it starts and ends because it combos so well, but it definitely is the most spammable attack in the game right now counting the first 3 characters.

Hahaha. I need to test that. I can see what that would happen, fireball has such little power but long stun time. I need to try that out. As for a damage cap, I don't have one! Never thought about needing it. So hmmm... I wonder what I could do to fix this problem (or if it is even a problem haha) Maybe cap the hitstun time at a certain value?


Thanks all! I still expect a video soon. Gonna do Saffron City first though I think.

-4nace